How Did the Hijackers Find the Pentagon, Anyway?

Originally posted by Tuning Spork


The highjackers made the turn because when they were first able to spot the Pentagon they were at 7,000 feet.

They hit the side of the Pentagon that they hit because that was the side of the Pentagon that was facing them when they hit it.

"Heavens to Murgatroid!!!"

So it was all about "chance"?

So they didn't like the side of the pentagon they were originally approaching from?

Originally posted by Boone 870


Remember conundrum04, Hani Hanjour had around 600 hours of flying time. He also had instrument flight training and I believe twin-engine turbine time. Maybe the experience he had would lead him to believe that he couldn't pull off diving a 757 into the Pentagon from several thousand feet.

So basically he decided to hit the penta-gone in landing mode? WOW! That makes sense!

So what you're trying to say is that Hanjour was such a freakin ace at the "wheel" that while knowing he was going to die in the crash decides to re-align the plane to hit the ONLY reinforced section of the pentagon specially designed to defend against an attack? Oh dam, I forgot! the odds of that are 1 of 5! 20% possibility is still good enough for you "official"/sheep theorists.

Do we live in the land of make believe or what?



[edit on 27-8-2007 by Conundrum04]

Originally posted by Conundrum04
So it was all about "chance"?

So they didn't like the side of the pentagon they were originally approaching from?

Actually, they hit the same side that they were originally approaching....after the 330 degree turn.

"...all about 'chance'"?
No. It was all about opportunity.

Please think about your reasoning, Conundrum. You posit that the gubmint orchestrated the attack and destroyed the World Trade Center and thousands of innocent lives yet took care to strike the Pentagon as it's strongest (not weakest) point in order to spare innocent lives.

Logical gymnastics can be quite dizzying. I prefer to keep my proverbial feet on the ground.


[edit on 28-8-2007 by Tuning Spork]

Originally posted by Tuning Spork

Originally posted by Conundrum04
So it was all about "chance"?

So they didn't like the side of the pentagon they were originally approaching from?

Actually, they hit the same side that they were originally approaching.

"...all about 'chance'"? No. It was all about opportunity.

Please think about your reasoning, Conundrum. You posit that the gubmint orchestrated the attack and destroyed the World Trade Center and thousands of innocent lives yet took care to strike he Pentagon as it's strongest -- not weakest -- point in order to spare innocent lives.

Logical gymnastics can be quite dizzying.

Why do you jump to conclusions?

I never said that the gov'ment was involved. That's too hard for 'average sheep' to comprehend, so I leave it out. I try to use the most basic of logic without prejudices to convey to the sheeple that something isn't right.

If you want to continue to live in the land of illusion so be it. I wish you the best of luck because you really ARE going to need it.

Originally posted by Conundrum04
I never said that the gov'ment was involved.

Well, then what was the point of your post? You seemed suspicious that flight 77 hit the re-enforced section of the Pentagon in order to do as little damage as possible. Seemed, to me, like a reasonable presumption that you are of a mind that it was planned to happen that way. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Sweet, it's a thread now, and already two pages! Alright mod! No time to read now but will later tonight.

Originally posted by Tuning Spork

Originally posted by Conundrum04
I never said that the gov'ment was involved.

Well, then what was the point of your post? You seemed suspicious that flight 77 hit the re-enforced section of the Pentagon in order to do as little damage as possible. Seemed, to me, like a reasonable presumption that you are of a mind that it was planned to happen that way. Correct me if I'm wrong.

"Heavens to Murgatroid!!!"

Yes it is suspicious. And your point is?

Just consider me, an average bloke, looking to make sense out of the chaotic events that happened on 9/11/01.

The average bloke, in me, tells me that something is extremely rotten to the core about the events of that day. Furor Bush even said at the UN two months after 9/11 to not succumb to "outrageous conspiracy theories". Why would Bush have to say this if it was soooo obvious that "bin laden/islamo-facists" caused 9/11?

www.youtube.com...

Considering Bush's "dead or alive" cowboy bravado to "I'm not too concerned about him" about Bin Laden should speaks volumes.

Are you even interested about justice and integrity guy?

Conundrum,

Just an "average bloke" looking for answers and yet you've already decided that Bush is a "fuhrur"?

Nice try. You're obviously looking for some neato confirmation of your political prejudice.

Deny ignorance, my friend.

edit: And stop with the Snagglepuss already!!!

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Tuning Spork]

Originally posted by Tuning Spork
Conundrum,

Just an "average bloke" looking for answers and yet you've already decided that Bush is a "fuhrur"?

Nice try. You're obviously looking for some neato confirmation of your political prejudice.

Deny ignorance, my friend.

"Heavens to Murgatroid!!!"

Good thread Mirage. This precise path planning, the simplicity and symmetry of flight path, does become another mystery of the attack. Along with the baro pressure reset at 18,ooo feet, that unlikely rightward loop, and the hot-rodding over the lawn into the Ground floor. And we're just handed Hani Hanjour, who for some reason I still haven't even studied closely. But he seems to be quite the prodigy, officially. Someone smart and capable was at the helm. Could be RC, but one or two poor opinions of Hanjour's skills doesn't cut it for me as proof that he couldn't've done it.

I'm not technical enough to offer a useful insight on how this planning might've been done. Perhaps Hanjour was gifted enough and had studied maps that he could just look down at, say, the mountain ridges below, and knew the angle to take from there. Perhaps handheld GPS - was that banned? Or unusual?

But one point I'd like to clarify:

Originally posted by Conundrum04
"Heavens to Murgatroid!!!"

So it was all about "chance"?

So they didn't like the side of the pentagon they were originally approaching from?

They were aimed at that side from hundreds of miles away - the 330 turn just slightly altered the overall northeast approach angle. This is my map (lat/long readings from the csv, corrected, and matching the official flight path as close as my graphics allow it seems):
too big to post - how do I resize?
Given the overall locations and flight path, arriving at that side seems to be a coincidence - unless of course it was all planned from within. It would have been odd to hit any of the other four sides in fact. There's been some confusion tho over where it was coming from before it looped, perhaps part of what you're thinking.

Keep questioning. Keep digging.

oh and quit saying heavens to murgatroid...

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Caustic Logic]

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Caustic Logic]

See them things with keypads and green lighting?

That's the Flight Management computer, and you use it to find approach speeds, takeoff speeds and so on. It is also connected to the Inertial Naviagtion System. You program in your route by entering a name for the FIX or selecting some preset approach / departure procedures(E.g. BTG for Battleground, a fix just north of PDX). There is a page in the Flight Management CDU that is called 'FIX INFO', all you need to do enter in any airport (KSEA for example), then it will appear on the Navigation display.

The navigation system is inertial and at the start of each flight the pilots enter in there location then, the Inertial Navigation system takes it from there.

What the hijackers could of done is just selected the FIX info page, and then typed in KDCA or just DCA. It would be hilighted on the Navigation display then all they'd need to do is point the plane in the direction.

To get altitude right, they would just need to turn the altitude nob on the Mode Control Panel (MCP, where the autopilot functions are) down to whatever the Pentagons elevation is, then decend. On the Navigation display there is also a semicircle overlaid on the moving map which displays where you will be when you reach the slected altitude on the Mode Control Panel (MCP, where the autopilot functions are).

I am only 15 years old and I know how to do this with the, 717, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, MD80 and MD11, because really, it is not that hard and this information is easily available. If I can do it then I would expect the hijackers to be abled to.

Thanks.

[edit on 28/8/2007 by C0bzz]

The NTSB flight path has been proven a fabrication.

1. The NTSB animation and the FDR are both irreconcilable with the eyewitnesses (as reported by CIT) and the physical damage as reported by PFT in this thread
(I'm still curious why CL has been strangely silent about this on his blog)

2. We have rock solid new evidence (not released yet) that proves the old "down river approach" flight path is more accurate.

(Not exactly like this and we will release a fully supported more accurate version in the future but this is closer than the NTSB version.)

3. There is nothing to prove that even a modified military drone would be able to achieve the physical damage flight path with the complex topography and obstacles in the way. To hit the bottom two floors of the building low and perfectly level (no descent angle) after hitting the light poles without breaking up or crashing before hitting the building is not something that has been proven to be possible.



The implications are clear.

The FDR and NTSB flight paths are fabrications.




[edit on 28-8-2007 by Craig Ranke CIT]

Hi Craig. A couple of quick questions.

1. Where did flight 77 go?
2. What happened to N644AA?
3. Do your Northside witnesses still believe a 757 hit the Pentagon?
4. Is your soon-to-be released video going to have any eyewitness accounts of a 757 flying over the Pentagon?
5. Why do you want there to be a conspiracy?

Originally posted by Boone 870
Hi Craig. A couple of quick questions.

1. Where did flight 77 go?
2. What happened to N644AA?
3. Do your Northside witnesses still believe a 757 hit the Pentagon?
4. Is your soon-to-be released video going to have any eyewitness accounts of a 757 flying over the Pentagon?
5. Why do you want there to be a conspiracy?

1. Don't know.
2. Same question.
3. Doubt it.
4. You will see.
5. I don't.

[edit on 28-8-2007 by Craig Ranke CIT]

originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

2. Same question

It's not the same question. N644AA was assigned to flight 77, if flight 77 never existed then N644AA would be missing. Do you not think that American Airlines would want to know where they're missing plane is?

Originally posted by Boone 870

originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

2. Same question

It's not the same question. N644AA was assigned to flight 77, if flight 77 never existed then N644AA would be missing. Do you not think that American Airlines would want to know where they're missing plane is?

Well I didn't say it never existed.

However we do know that it was completely unaccounted for starting at 8:56 giving the perps about 30 minutes to execute a plane swap a la operation northwoods.

American Airlines was told that it was hijacked and that it "liquefied" into the Pentagon.

No doubt they are satisfied with that answer.

Originally posted by CB_Brooklyn
Oh my God. Are there still people who think there were hijackings on 9/11?

I was watching 911mysteries
video.google.com...


Survivor on 81st floor says he saw plane, Stanley Praimnth, and was rescued
by Brian Clark seem to confirm a plane involvement.

Now there is no need for a hijack, only one determined pilot as with JFK JR or
the Egypt Air pilot... (see JFK JR on youtube.. )

That leaves the Arab pilots off the hook. How is it done.. find the mk ultra
pilot training grounds.. we found the anti Castro camps didn't we.

DNA evidence of a South Tower airliner passenger was announced and as
the no planers are denounced by some, we don't need planes when you
have Thermite.

The official plane crash on WTC South Tower looks true, but was there a
lone pilot.

And not the hijackers as stated, you only need one as demonstrated twice
before.

Does the truth hurt or did I spin an new 911 tale.



ED: Well there is also fly by wire and satellite remote control


[edit on 8/28/2007 by TeslaandLyne]

Good to have you back Craig. If you were gone, that is. Otherwise good to hear from you. A new video? Is this the long-awaited Researcher's Edition or another vid altogether?
Interesting that this down the river path created by Steve Koeppel is being boosted now, since it was based in the first place on absolutely nothing but Koppel realizing that was the direction of some landmarks that formed a 270 degree arc. That's it. But by coincidence, this method matched the reality seen by yet another witness(es)? Wow.

originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
Well I didn't say it never existed.

you're right, I apologize. So, are we now back to the "Bumble bee planes" theory serendipity.li.com ?

The North Woods document does not favor the conspiracy movement at all. I understand that you are trying to use it as precedence to prove that the government is capable of pulling off a false flag operation against its own citizens, but that is not what it does.

originally posted by conundrum04
So basically he decided to hit the penta-gone in landing mode? WOW! That makes sense!

So what you're trying to say is that Hanjour was such a freakin ace at the "wheel" that while knowing he was going to die in the crash decides to re-align the plane to hit the ONLY reinforced section of the pentagon specially designed to defend against an attack? Oh dam, I forgot! the odds of that are 1 of 5! 20% possibility is still good enough for you "official"/sheep theorists.

By landing mode do you mean landing gear, flaps, and slats set for landing at 150 mph? If that were the case then I would expect to see a tail sticking out of the building.

That's not what I'm trying to say it all. What I'm trying to say is, if he was a great pilot, he would've hit the Pentagon on the way into Washington instead of having to make a 330° descending turn. If he was at 2000 feet on the way in then maybe he would have tried to nose over and hit the Pentagon.

If it was a crack pilot, F-16, A-3, cruise missile, hologram, Global Hawk, or remote-controlled 757; why wouldn't they be sure to hit the Pentagon on the first pass instead of flying over it. Please don't say it was to hit the only reinforced side. That theory doesn't hold water when the object of the attacks was to create death and destruction.