How Did the Hijackers Find the Pentagon, Anyway?

Basically to clear this all up, the only real way to know would be to have the full Pentagon Security video from all points around it, the Sheraton, VDOT traffic cams and Citgo tapes along with tapes that may have been running from across where DEA, the Pentagon City Mall and any businesses along Columbia Pike, from as far up as say the Rosenthal Chevrolet because that is where someone said they saw the low approach, I am sure there has got to be some bombshell piece of evidence out there that wasn't confiscated and that goes for the WTC also, I just can't imagine why the Sheraton and Citgo tapes were feverishly confiscated and both locales are closer to where every witness clearly say they saw it, and the reason why most tapes on the other side were not sought out.....is it too much to ask to have these tapes released????


[edit on 1-9-2007 by phinubian]

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
It would be just as easy for me to create a list of things that seem absurd but yet still fall right in line perfectly with the official conspiracy theory.

do you mind giving some examples?

originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
Arguments from incredulity are a logical fallacy regardless of what side of the fence they swing

I agree with that. Isn't your entire argument based on incredulity?

Originally posted by phinubian

....is it too much to ask to have these tapes released????

Of course not however obviously they will not release anything that implicates them.

I am one who feels that at this point there is plenty enough evidence proving the official story a farce beyond a reasonable doubt so requesting the perpetrators to give us data that only they have controlled is not going to get to the bottom of truth.

This is why eyewitness testimony is so important.

It's the only possible way we can get to virgin data that has not been vetted and controlled.

Although there are many plants and liars so it makes it quite difficult.

This is why previously unpublished witnesses are the best source for information.

If details that prove the official story false can be heavily corroborated such as the north side claim then it's clear we are on to something important.

Originally posted by Boone 870

do you mind giving some examples?

How about the notion that 19 fanatical flunkies managed to dupe the most powerful and richest defense agency on earth with box cutters while not a single one of the original pilots hit the distress signal?

Or that alleged pilot Hani Hanjour who had trouble flying a cessna 3 weeks prior was able to pull an extremely difficult maneuver with a 757 with perfect military precision?

Or that an alleged hijacker passport would fly out of the fireball at the WTC unscathed?

Or that 3 high rises in downtown Manhattan would collapse catastrophically due to localized damage/fire even though this has never happened in world history?

Or that a plane could crash in an empty field leaving a cartoonish plane shape yet no large recognizable pieces of debris?

The list goes on and on and is constantly repeated in this forum in many ways.

originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
Arguments from incredulity are a logical fallacy regardless of what side of the fence they swing

I agree with that. Isn't your entire argument based on incredulity?

Um no.

Far from it.

We went there and brought back hard evidence that is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.


[edit on 1-9-2007 by Craig Ranke CIT]

i got one how was there passports found aong the debree off the wtc thats impossible they some how find there pass ports

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
Do 'they' have or is there an NTAC(?) that shows the flight like the video

JFK JR had that showed the nose dive.

By now 'they' could make up one I suppose.

The Government can't give us satisfaction that for sure.

We Can't Get No (Conspiracy) Satisfaction.

Yeah, so its an N-Tap... anyone hear of it... it shows the path of
the radar blips of the planes.

I had to watch JFK JR again just to find it.

So there you have it, all the information you want.

Greetings Fellow Truth-Seekers

I try and keep an open mind, but I'll be shish-kebabed if I can generate any belief in the official story of 9/11 after viewing and studying the following videos I watched on www.youtube.com:

1. "In Plane Site: 9/11"
   
2. "Loose Change, 2nd Edition"
   
3. "The Great Conspiracy: The 9/11 Documentary that you Never Saw"
   

From what I have seen of the physical evidence regarding the Pentagon "attack" (the size of the hole, the damage that was done to the building, the fact that the lawn in front of the hole was untouched, the almost total lack of wreckage), it was some kind of missile that hit it. From the circumstantial evidence (the fact that all of the videotapes that would show what happened were immediately rounded up and hidden away), it appears that a government coverup began right away. As someone rightly said, "if the videotapes supported the government case, we would have seen them."

The "official" story regarding the attacks on the towers is similarly flawed, but I won't go into that here as we are speaking of what happened at the Pentagon.

I encourage anyone with an open mind who has not seen the programs that I have listed above to take a few hours and watch them. Judge for yourselves.

I am now convinced that the "powers that be" used their cover story for the events of 9/11 to sell to the frightened American people all of the recent freedom-destroying legislation, to convince the American people to accept two wars, and to pretty conclusively destroy America's reputation in the eyes of an otherwise apathetic (at least with regard to America) global population.

The policy seems to be to scare the pants off of everyone so that they willingly give up their freedom in exchange for security. It is the Reichstag story all over again. When will we wake up?

The truth is out there . . .

Peace and truth

Johnboy1

Or that alleged pilot Hani Hanjour who had trouble flying a cessna 3 weeks prior was able to pull an extremely difficult maneuver with a 757 with perfect military precision?

Not all of them were flunkies. Atta definitely wasn't a flunky, he was a college graduate and an engineer I believe.
Hitting a distress signal is not as simple as flipping a switch, you have to punch in a four digit code into the transponder. The pilot of flight 93 was able to call out Mayday on the radio before he was overtaken.

Or that alleged pilot Hani Hanjour who had trouble flying a cessna 3 weeks prior was able to pull an extremely difficult maneuver with a 757 with perfect military precision?

Hani did have trouble landing the Cessna prior to the attack, but the same instructor that refused to rent the airplane also says that he believes Hani could have crashed flight 77 into the Pentagon.
A difficult maneuver? By whose standards? The descending turn before the Pentagon impact is just a smudge over what is considered safe and comfortable for passenger flight.
If there was military precision, he would've hit the Pentagon on the way in instead of flying over and having to make the turn to hit the target and probably wouldn't have hit the light poles.

Or that an alleged hijacker passport would fly out of the fireball at the WTC unscathed?

That may be odd but that doesn't mean that it was planted. What else was found on the streets of New York that could be considered odd? Was there other personal effects of passengers found on the street?

Or that 3 high rises in downtown Manhattan would collapse catastrophically due to localized damage/fire even though this has never happened in world history?

Never before in history were there similarly designed buildings hit by large passenger jets traveling at such speeds. Never before was there a building hit by falling debris that didn't have firefighting efforts to help control the fire.

Or that a plane could crash in an empty field leaving a cartoonish plane shape yet no large recognizable pieces of debris?

what did you expect to see in Shanksville, a cartoonish rear fuselage with a vertical fin and horizontal stabilizers sticking up out of the ground? Why aren't there a large number of crash investigators crying foul? Just because we haven't seen pictures of the recovered debris doesn't mean that they don't exist.

We went there and brought back hard evidence that is proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

Isn't incredulity what led you there in the first place? Did you go there to investigate/research all possibilities or did you go there to investigate/research a predetermined outcome?

Originally posted by warrior.elite52
im not to bright at this kind of stuff, but how would we know that the hijackers first spotted the pentagon at 7000 feet? its kind of just a general knowledge question.

You might be interested in this. This is a screenshot of a highly realistic 767 add-on for MS FS2004. I'm in the VC (Virtual Cockpit), with the FMC up on the FIX page, at 7,000 ft, just prior to the start of that "difficult" turn.

I rolled to the right to about 25-30 degrees, and maintained an approximate 1800 ft/min rate of descent during the turn. The turn took 3 mins 50 secs, and when I leveled out I was facing the Pentagon at 1600 ft ASL (900 ft RA), doing 350 kts (from 250 kts when I started the turn). I left the power where it was for 250 kts in level flight.

NOTE: Image is 1024x768.

i167.photobucket.com...

You'll see in the fix page that it says DCA 250/6

DCA is the ident of the VOR at Reagan National.

250/6 is the radial and distance to the DME (co-located with the DCA VOR).

It says I'm on the 250 radial, which means I would actually need to fly heading 070 to fly towards it. I'm 6nm away from it at this point.

Unless you are familiar at all with radio navigation (and you wouldn't be taught that during your initial flight training) you wouldn't know what it meant. Honestly - how many people would think it meant you needed to fly heading 250 to fly towards it?

Instrument Rating is separate from just leaning to fly. When you first get your ticket, you know how to use the compass, but that is it. The instrument flying is for after you've done your basic flying training.

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

How about the notion that 19 fanatical flunkies managed to dupe the most powerful and richest defense agency on earth with box cutters while not a single one of the original pilots hit the distress signal?

Or that alleged pilot Hani Hanjour who had trouble flying a cessna 3 weeks prior was able to pull an extremely difficult maneuver with a 757 with perfect military precision?

Or that an alleged hijacker passport would fly out of the fireball at the WTC unscathed?

Or that 3 high rises in downtown Manhattan would collapse catastrophically due to localized damage/fire even though this has never happened in world history?

Or that a plane could crash in an empty field leaving a cartoonish plane shape yet no large recognizable pieces of debris?

The list goes on and on and is constantly repeated in this forum in many ways.

Totally agree.

[edit on 1-9-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

How would Hanji know to aim at a certain runway 17 at Washington National? Talk about "theories."

Let's leave aside what Barbara Hoenegger, special assistant to Ronald Reagan and presently a professor at the War College that states it is impossible that any commercial plane could hit the Pentagon without giving off a "friendly signal" to avoid being shot down by the missile batteries ringing the Pentagon, ok? That signal had to come from a military flying object, whatever that might have been. I have a guess I'll keep to myself until evidence arises.

That's staying in the realm of fact.

Now, let's go speculate:

Do they teach that at flight school, how to line up runway 17 at National if conducting an attack on Pentagon?

Please provide documentation or link of such instruction given at flight schools to a fella it is documented wasn't allowed to rent a Cessna because of obvious incompetence.

Or are you confirming they obtained military flight training while living ON US military bases in US? At least, according to their addresses while residing on Homestead AFB, eh?

I just can't imagine that without a real test run, or rehearsal outside of a simulator....these hijackers could have hit the Pentagon almost dead center, hit the twin towers with no errors or mishaps and supposedly commandeer the flight that was supposedly shot down over Shanksville, IMHO I just am not buying this.

We really are giving them way too much credit, college degrees or not who cares, they were not pilots with years of experience even flying cessnas and at that half assed, let alone how could it be expected they could competently fly/steer commercial aircraft, two different beasts completely, with the speeds, feel and capabilities any pilots here?

I am of the thinking that in the near future a bombshell will be dropped on the public that is irrefutable and cannot be denied, you would think that if there were a small number of individuals knowingly involved in this that were not killed, who at some point someone will come clean or release information anonymously to the public about this entire thing.

reply to post by alupang


Gee, you don't think that they might use these things called "charts" that show airports and the area around them do you? And that these "chart" things just MIGHT show the Pentagon and surrounding area ALONG WITH the runway that has the approach path that goes RIGHT NEXT TO the Pentagon. But that's just a theory right?

As for having to transmit a signal, there is no defense system fast enough that could stop a plane that is flying the approach path to the runway at National, that suddenly swerves to hit the Pentagon. It would impact before anything could even BEGIN to react to it, even under computer control. The approach path is well under 1 mile from the Pentagon.

Let's leave aside what Barbara Hoenegger, special assistant to Ronald Reagan and presently a professor at the War College that states it is impossible that any commercial plane could hit the Pentagon without giving off a "friendly signal" to avoid being shot down by the missile batteries ringing the Pentagon, ok? That signal had to come from a military flying object, whatever that might have been.

As I understand it, they brought in air defenses of the type you're thinking of AFTER 9/11. People even watched them roll into DC IIRC!

Here is the only restricted airspace around DC: www.myairplane.com...

P-56 - SFC to 18,000 ft. It is located north of National Monument and over the White House. The Pentagon isn't even show.

Here is about as close as you get to the Pentagon on approach. There is a photo of the real approach somewhere but I can't find it. In the photo I seem to remember they just overflew the corner or something like that. It was as they were turning finals.

I'm 1.7 nm from DCA at this point, just about to turn.

i167.photobucket.com...

[edit on 2-9-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Mod Edit: Image Size – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 3/9/2007 by Mirthful Me]

All anyone with an open mind has to do is to go to Patriotsquestion911.com and read the testimonies there. Pilot after pilot and General after General and professional after professional state that they are totally unconvinced with the official story. The reading there will open anyones eyes to the truth.

After reading that site, anyone who can still swallow the official story is either in a pathetic and morbid state of denial or a stooge for the perps, no other way. No skid marks on the Pentagon lawn? No engines dragged out and identified by serial numbers? PULEEEEEZE. Asking intelligent people to accept the Bush cabals claims is like asking us to believe that the moon is made of cheese. We know better.

If there were any ' highjackers ' on the planes they were fall guys for the Cheney gang to make the story palatable to the Fox news crowd. There is NO evidence they were on the planes; no photos, no names on the manifests, no pathology reports of Arabs..nothing. just TRUST ME from the Fuhrer Bush and gang. trust me; yeah, right. Trrust me..thats how you say F Y in Miami!!! Trust them indeed.

My God, what does it take to get the people who accept the lies of the Bush cabal to see the trruth? Massive evidence is not enough, witnesses is not enough..only a confession by the perps would suffice, and even then some would say it is all a mistake..Accept the truth; we have been attacked from within by enemies of the Constitution, the Neocons, who will murder at will and steal vast monies to prop up their nefarious schemes.

I don't understand those who say it isn't possible! It certainly is possible - the maneuvers required are not out the realms of possibility for one second.

I'm not necessarily suggesting the official story is correct in so far as what hit the Pentagon, but what I am attempting to do is establish that the maneuver is certainly possible.

My post above was just to demonstrate how close you get to the Pentagon during a normal approach into DCA, and debunk the idea that there were SAMs waiting to shoot down anything within 5 miles! They may have SAMs in the area, but normal commercial traffic flies this close to the Pentagon every day, without getting shot down!

If you look at the approach chart I posted I for VOR/DME RW15 approach, you'll see the restricted airspace is clearly marked on the chart. There is no such restriction above or around the Pentagon (and you'll note, it isn't even on the chart, despite being a major landmark).

[edit on 2-9-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Originally posted by eyewitness86
All anyone with an open mind has to do is to go to Patriotsquestion911.com and read the testimonies there. Pilot after pilot and General after General and professional after professional state that they are totally unconvinced with the official story. The reading there will open anyones eyes to the truth.

After reading that site, anyone who can still swallow the official story...

That site is bogus, just like conspiracy theory logic.

For example: Architects are not qualified to say what happened structurally, so their analysis is not much better then yours...

The only qualified people there are either foreign, or from extremely liberal colleges, aka university of RENO.
They are using their status to push a political agenda. Not to mention the so called experts are people with PE. all you have to do to get a PE is get a UNDERGRADUATE degree in engineering the pass the EIT also called FE, then work in the field for 5+ years and take the PE test. I know because this is my plan. I'm sorry but just because you have BS in engineering and you watched some videos on youtube doesn't make you an expert. You have to get down in the dirty and run experiments, exactly what the NIST report makers did. Is it completely accurate, No but its a government job, when are gov jobs ever 100% effective.

Not to mention the sites COMPLETELY ignores any experts that don't go along with their opinion.

Why is it that conspiracy theory sites are the only reference that people use on this site?
because there is no real evidence anywhere else.

The conspiracy theories in my opinion were disseminated by liberals, willing to do anything to win elections. Perhaps a response to the republican juggernaut campaigns of recent elections. Now I ask who are the real sheep.

reply to post by Craig Ranke CIT

Just wondering about the pilot of the C130, did you ask him if he did the 330 degree turn also? If not then it would seem he could have been alot closer when the 757 came back around for the strike on the Pentagon.

I know a little bit about the capabilities of a C130, I.E. quite capable of matching speed and decent abilities of a 757.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
They tracked the plane on radar at the end, once it crossed into the primary radar coverage area around the two Washington DC airports. And it almost hit a C-130, coming within about a mile of where it was. Knowing how long it took them to descend to impact, and the altitude of the C-130 when they crossed, they can calculate approximately what altitude Flight 77 was at when it began the turn to line up with the Pentagon.

so what if they tracked the plane on radar. unless you were there and they yelled "i see it! and we are at 7000 feet!" you have no idea. im just proving my point

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Why not just head straight to the whitehouse... it was within sight.

Probably because the F16\cruise missile was programmed for the pentagon.
We've all seen the size of the turbine they found. The rest was carried away with a curtain around it (before the investigation, of course) by men in suits.

[edit on 3-9-2007 by NuclearPaul]