EU urges Texas to end executions

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

As a Texan, I can whole heartedly tell you, that Texans couldn't give a rat's ass what the EU thinks. Hell, we don't even care what other Americans think. What gives anyone the inclination that we give a dinker's damn about some foreign legislative power? Texans aren't concerned, believe that.

i'm sorry man...i LOVE all this hardcore, macho, texan stuff.
bwuahahahahahaha

i didn't realize texans were so proud(and tough as nails) to be texan...

hahahahahhahaahhah

sorry. carry on

Originally posted by Boondock78

i didn't realize texans were so proud(and tough as nails) to be texan...

hahahahahhahaahhah

sorry. carry on

Texans are almost nationalistic about their state.. Don't believe me? Place up a thread with a title that is derogatory towards Texas, and watch the fireworks.. Hell, you'll have people sign up to ATS just to respond to that one thread. By the way, every last word in the statement that you quoted is true.

Texans, while they can be hospitable, don't really like people from other states, let alone most people from other countries, especially when they try to force their will on us.

[edit on 24-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by Boondock78
[
well, you answered me so it's cool but i was looking for, if your son was on death row as an innocent man, would you still be for capital punishment?

that man has wrecked me....my life is not ruined but i have problems.....would i like to see that man off the streets for life? yes
death? yes......i think about it all the time....

I'm sorry to hear that, and I do agree with you on many of your points. If I feel the need to take things into my own hands to meet justice it is because I feel the system has let me down. I would rather see a guy spend the rest of his life in a 10 by 10 cell eating bread and water for the rest of his life than to see him executed, but prison life is actually better than many lives of the very poor.

For so many it is not a punishment but just a part of their life, and I would want whatever the punishment is to actually be a punishment in their eyes. Many times death is the easy way out, but what I fear is some repeat offender rapes my kid and gets 4 years and is back out on the street, and in my eyes he didn’t pay the price and I’m not the kind of guy to do that to. I guess 27 years in the military has harden me and molded my view on things.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth


sorry. carry on

Texans are almost nationalistic about their state.. ]

When did we become a state? I thought we were still the great Texas territory.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
When did we become a state? I thought we were still the great Texas territory.

Xtrozero, that is something I have heard, but have never really seen confirming evidence. The Texas territory was huge... Parts of wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, kansas, et cetera, were all a part of the original Texas territory.



[edit on 24-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Xtrozero
When did we become a state? I thought we were still the great Texas territory.

Xtrozero, that is something I have heard, but have never really seen confirming evidence. The Texas territory was huge... Parts of wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, kansas, et cetera, were all a part of the original Texas territory.



[edit on 24-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

I say we take it back

The fact of the matter is that we shouldn't have to listen to people from the EU to decide the right thing to do. We should be able to do that for ourselves.

Doesn't it bother you to be one of the last of the "civilized" nations to have capital punishment. This basically puts us on a par with countries like Iraq,North Korea, Iran, China and similar backward countries.

I have to admit on a gut level when you see someone murder a family,a child or some other particularly heinous crime it makes you feel good to see the guilty party executed. Unfortunately that's revenge not justice. I will be the first to admit that if someone close to me was murdered I would dearly love to see the murderer fry.That is emotions not logic.

Our prisons are basically overwhelmed because so many people are imprisoned who are no real danger to society. The prison population is not overwhelmed with murderers.

As someone pointed out earlier it is more expensive to execute someone than it is to imprison them for life. There are so many costs built into the system with all of the appeals available to someone sentenced to death that you lose the economic advantage of execution.

The final point I would like to make is look at the number of death row prisoners who have been released in recent years due to DNA evidence. What is the moral cost of executing just one innocent man ?

Capital punishment can be an emotionally feel good resolution to a nasty violent murder.....but does that make it morally right ?

[edit on 25-8-2007 by duster]

[edit on 25-8-2007 by duster]

Originally posted by duster

Doesn't it bother you to be one of the last of the "civilized" nations to have capital punishment.

Nope, :shk:

Our prisons are basically overwhelmed because so many people are imprisoned who are no real danger to society. The prison population is not overwhelmed with murderers.

Well, being someone who has actually worked within the system, I was a corrections officer, I do agree with you here. We give huge sentences for, in my opinion, pretty minor charges, and many of the rapist and murderers get off lightly. Of course, to me, rapists and child molesters are the bottom of the scum pit. While murder sometimes can be justified, rape and child molestation can never, ever be justified.



[edit on 26-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Once again, SOT shows us where his name came from.

Rape and Molestation are two crimes that are NEVER justifiable. I personally think we need to start going the castration route with pedophiles and rapists followed shortly after with a neck vs. rope confrontation.....IN PUBLIC.

Murder is, at times, justifiable. The defense of one's own is a perfect example. However, murder just for the sake of murder....yet another cause for neck v. rope. Why waste all that money on the injection? The rope is cheaper than the alcohol they use to disinfect the arm of the guy they are about to kill (talk about irony!!!!!!!!).


Speaker, you are a true asset to ATS.


Jasn

A more productive way of making use out of useless criminals is to line them up for scientific testing purposes...instead of using cute little innocent animals. Like that criminals can be compelled to be contributing members of society.

Though I don't believe in Capital Punishment and our Country doesn't support itI do believe NO country should make attempt to meddle in another's internal Laws unless through the world courts for some relevant reasons.

Texas does what it feels it must do under State Law and the USA supports States which either support don't support the Death Penalty.

But after Illinois stopping the Death Sentence there in it's tracks, after finding DNA evidence has proven, in some cases, innocence after the Death Penalty was carried out, I sure hope the main stay of ongoing executions are based on DNA proof of guilt.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas
Though I don't believe in Capital Punishment and our Country doesn't support itI do believe NO country should make attempt to meddle in another's internal Laws unless through the world courts for some relevant reasons.

Texas does what it feels it must do under State Law and the USA supports States which either support don't support the Death Penalty.

But after Illinois stopping the Death Sentence there in it's tracks, after finding DNA evidence has proven, in some cases, innocence after the Death Penalty was carried out, I sure hope the main stay of ongoing executions are based on DNA proof of guilt.

Dallas

I agree, but one countries norm is another's inhumane actions. I remember seeing a video of Iraq where men in handcuffs were pushed off 3 story buildings by the authority or massive firing squads. At what point does an action become inhumane?


As I said before I think a lot of our problems is prison is viewed as not that bad of a place. In Japan a prisoner has a super small cell and must get up every day at 5 to make their bed and clean up so they can get their 3 meals of bland rice soup a day. No TV, no music, no talking with other prisoners, no nothing. If you build up honor points you can get like a book now and then. I remember when I lived in Japan there was a big deal over one year that they actually allowed some of the Americans prisoners to have a slice of turkey on Thanksgiving. You make prison a sterile hell and people will not treat it as just cycle of their life.

[edit on 26-8-2007 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by eyewitness86
...

Europe is way ahead of us in most every way; they have been civilized and cultured since before we ever had a foot set on this continent.

...Hmmm... Must be why so many of the early settlers in America, and Canada were Europeans of various extractions?

We are the young bucks playing fast and loose with peoples lives and maybe someday we will grow up and see that we have a lot to learn from our Euro friends about what is best LONG TERM. We are short term thinkers here and we need to be long term..simple.

...Or perhaps a bit different in use of our resources.

I am not going to condemn or praise the death penalty. At this point in my life it hasn't impacted me one way or the other. However, I don't think we are playing "fast and loose" with anything.

There appears to be much animosity and biased rhetoric on all parts in this thread.

The one saving grace of a place like the United States is that it is a "work in progress", an experiment if you will. Things that don't work do change, apparently not fast enough for everyone, but they do change. There is a conscious effort on the part of some in the US to change death penalties. There are those opposed to that change.

If you wish to make a difference, come here, and become a citizen. Work for change! No matter what you may, personally, feel, the changes you seek will only occur in this country, if enough like- minded people get together and make it happen.

The US is nowhere near perfect. We have our share of King wannabes, Queen wannabees, and buffoons in government positions. Much like the Europeans. Much like the Asians, and much like most anyone that I have left out (no offense intended).

It is my considered opinion, having lived in both the US, and Europe, that there are a good number of things that I, personally, would change immediately, if I could, in both places. I cannot, singularly, change much of anything. I can, however, take an active part (the root of participation?) in how my government functions. That is what will make the difference, in the long run... Unless, that is, you want an open and armed rebellion in the US, or Europe, the Baltic States, Russia, Asia, and all points in between and surrounding.

You may not like, particularly, how things are done in whatever state, or country you currently live in. However, to simply sit and complain on a forum like ATS, hasn't done much more than, perhaps raise the consciousness of a few people, or make them have a more disdainful view of your country, or you as a person.

Actually, the times we live in now are exciting. Why? We still have the ability to get out and change things by direct involvement. Not by calling each other names or poohpoohing each others place of national origin... (The old, My Dad can beat up your Dad, kind of mentality).

Just sayin' here that I would like to see more useful discussion on differences as opposed to name calling and poohpoohing those differences.

But what do I know?

death is too easy for these people, here is the solution that will make even the EU happy:

In Arizon Sheriff Joe Arpaio runs his prisons like in the old days.
He feeds his prisones on .60 cents a day (American) and Arizona has some of he cleanest hwys. Not only do they clean highways but they do hard labor on farms ad such places. He also has a innovative overcrowding solution. TENT CITY, he has set up tents in the yards to house his newest inmates then hey get moved inddors as an empty bunk becomes available.
They are not allowed elevision, radios or magazines. They have to wear pink underwear and clothing.

and these are just the things we know of...basically you do time the Joe Arpaio way you're doig HARD TIME.
so hand them over to Sheriff Joe and hnd him the keys.

this way they will suffer in the Arizona desert their entire life (keeps the victims families satisfied)

they will not be put to death...well not instantly (keeps the EU and the tree huggers happy) that way if DNA exonarates them, you can just call Sheriff Joe and he'll kick them to the curb.

problem solved.

or we could just line them up and...









[edit on 26-8-2007 by darkheartrising]

Originally posted by darkheartrising
TENT CITY, he has set up tents in the yards to house his newest inmates then hey get moved inddors as an empty bunk becomes available.
They are not allowed elevision, radios or magazines. They have to wear pink underwear and clothing.

I loved it when the media blasted him on human rights issues about the tents and he said "if those tents were good enough for our boys in desert storm they are good enough for prisoners...no more media hype...

reply to post by ANOK


well, the history of Europe is rather violent, going back thousands of years, much farther than the US history.. lets see, you have the crusades where the europeans tried too kill all the arabs, the Inquisition where the Spanish tried too kill anyone that wasn't a good proper Catholic, the Vikings just killing everyone for the hell of it.

How many wars have started in europe, not these little wars, but WORLD WARS.. hmm, how about BOTH of them.. How many times has Germany tried to take over it's neighbors, (and failed thanks to the US) NOW what does europe do, they align themselves in a "union" and DO exactly what Germany was doing in WW2, but without any bloodshed, YET.. I can guarantee that there will be bloodshed in the future over this "european union" and unfortunately, both the United States and England will come out on the loosing end. I just don't know if it will go nuclear or not, but I'm going to assume that it does..

Originally posted by dundonrl
reply to post by ANOK

 

, YET.. I can guarantee that there will be bloodshed in the future over this "european union" and unfortunately, both the United States and England will come out on the loosing end. I just don't know if it will go nuclear or not, but I'm going to assume that it does..

At the risk of penance for a one-liner... What are you talking about?

reply to post by Boondock78


I don't have a link. I own a book written by a Warden. I also have a family who has worked for the State Prison system for two generations. The book is "The Largest Hotel Chain: Texas Prison"

Originally posted by dundonrl
reply to post by ANOK

 

well, the history of Europe is rather violent, going back thousands of years, much farther than the US history.. lets see, you have the crusades where the europeans tried too kill all the arabs, the Inquisition where the Spanish tried too kill anyone that wasn't a good proper Catholic, the Vikings just killing everyone for the hell of it.

How many wars have started in europe, not these little wars, but WORLD WARS.. hmm, how about BOTH of them.. How many times has Germany tried to take over it's neighbors, (and failed thanks to the US) NOW what does europe do, they align themselves in a "union" and DO exactly what Germany was doing in WW2, but without any bloodshed, YET.. I can guarantee that there will be bloodshed in the future over this "european union" and unfortunately, both the United States and England will come out on the loosing end. I just don't know if it will go nuclear or not, but I'm going to assume that it does..

Wow, I rarely post at all but if you truly believe that the allied countries could not have beaten Germany without US support I feel sorry for you.

Its like a wrestling match where everyone is still fighting but exhausted and someone runs in and kicks everyone's arses because they did no fighting until then.

I am disappointed with your attitude regarding the US in WWII. Yes, I am grateful for US involvement but we would have won without you. You contributed, so did dozens of other counties, it was a group effort, not your effort, not your win etc.

If you think Europe has no right to comment on Texas and their death penalty. Fair enough. But stay the hell out of everyone else's affairs and leave the middle east alone.

[edit on 27-8-2007 by Sceptical_Alien]

[edit on 27-8-2007 by Sceptical_Alien]

Originally posted by Sceptical_Alien
I am disappointed with your attitude regarding the US in WWII. Yes, I am grateful for US involvement but we would have won without you. You contributed, so did dozens of other counties, it was a group effort, not your effort, not your win etc.

So who was going to stop the Germans? Russia was one harsh winter from defeat, and their country was starving in the millions. United Kingdom was only able to handle a unwinnable defensive war, while Germany would have continued to bomb them with all the time in the world. Germany had a working jet aircraft and would have had the A-bomb too.

If anything Germany might had done a truce with the UK while they rebuild ALL of Europe and Russia just to come back 10 folds 5 years later. BTW while UK would have been hanging on by just a string, Japan would have ruled 50% of the world on their side…

All the war equipment of Germany was leaps and bounds better than what we had, and the US bombing of their infrastructure was THE major part of beating them. UK did not have this capability at the level we had to actually defeat them. As example US built close to 13,000 B-17s, 18,000 B-24, 5200 B-26, and close to 4000 b-29.

With UK having no heavy bombers the first bomb raid in 1943 of 230 B-17s were intercepted by 300 Luftwaffe fighters with heavy losses for the bombers. Second raid of 300 only 33 returned undamaged. They first average about 25% loss rate until the American made P-51 entered the battle, and since it was the longest range fighter of the war it was about the only fighter that could support the bombers AND defeat the advance German fighters. P-51s shot down 5,000 enemy aircraft during the war.

When the B-24 came along the bombing of Germany really got ugly.

“Many B-24 Liberators were produced by the Ford Motor Company at a purpose-built factory in Willow Run, Michigan, USA. The largest assembly line in the world (330,000 m2 or 3,500,000 ft2) at the time of completion, mass production began in August 1943. At its peak the factory was completing 428 B-24s per month. Many pilots slept on cots while waiting for 'their' B-24 to roll off the assembly line.”

UK had no answer to the Germans who at their leisure was going to blow UK back to the Stone Age. So what part of that war was the UK going to win?


[edit on 27-8-2007 by Xtrozero]