EU urges Texas to end executions

Originally posted by Chris McGee
I'm british and against the death penalty. I do believe that what the US does is it's own business (applies to any other country equally) but it's a little disturbing that you would end someones life just to save money.

It's even more disturbing that some murderers kill others for even more preposterous things than money. Yeah?

[edit on 22-8-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
It's even more disturbing that some murderers kill others for even more preposterous things than money. Yeah?

The reason the crime was comitted in the first place doesn't really have a bearing on the reasoning of the punishment.

If they had done something so heinous that only the death sentence (in the eyes of the governing authority) was sufficient retribution then it would be more understandable to me. If, on the other hand, the reason for the death sentence is to save money (as the other poster alluded to) then we begin to pass into the realm of the absurd where money is valued higher than a human life.

Originally posted by Chris McGee
If, on the other hand, the reason for the death sentence is to save money (as the other poster alluded to) then we begin to pass into the realm of the absurd where money is valued higher than a human life.

Well, not to be heartless or anything, but I'm not willing to support the life of someone who is a drain on the system, especially if that drain is a menace to society..

I'm all for death penalty of convicted murderers and rapists..public hangings would be okay with me. It works, you get rid of criminals and you fight over-population at the same time.

Somehow the idea of paying tax money to keep someone who murdered tons of people alive is absurd to me. I don't have to worry about paying taxes yet, but soon I will.

I don't want to offend anyone, but the European government is becoming too weak and pansy-ish.

Originally posted by Leyla
But don't come over here to the US and tell us what to do. You can keep your EU over there.

We don't want it.

Can you close down your military bases in Europe then please?
I think that's a fair deal.

Originally posted by Kacen
but the European government is becoming too weak and pansy-ish.

There is no such thing as a "European government".

The European Commission is not a government.

Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by Leyla
But don't come over here to the US and tell us what to do. You can keep your EU over there.

We don't want it.

Can you close down your military bases in Europe then please?

I think that's a fair deal.

Err, well to be fair we wouldn't have bases in Europe if the EU didn't let us and agree to it.

Originally posted by Kacen
Err, well to be fair we wouldn't have bases in Europe if the EU didn't let us and agree to it.

Sadly,
these bases were negotiated by the sovereign nations before the European Union or the EC was created.

The lease is agreed by the governments, nothing to do with the European Union.

There is no common defence policy in the EU.

Originally posted by laiguana
I'm all for death penalty of convicted murderers and rapists..public hangings would be okay with me. It works, you get rid of criminals and you fight over-population at the same time.

Bravo!!!!! But you left out two important vile sub-humans........Terrorist and Paedophiles..............

Unfortunately the EU understands Gov "Goodhair" as he is called in Texas wants to be Prez someday. This is their way of "negociating" how much money he will illegally get from the EU............

Why kill people?..
To show people..
That killing people is wrong?..

Even the worst cases, child reapist, serial killers, are the ones that can not be judged by their guilt, they need to be locked up in psychiatric penitentiary, for life..
Killing people to save taxpayers money is just a sickening thought..
If you payed some more tax maybe your national debt wouldnt be so high..
Off course the commission [ actually a supranational body but not quiet a eu administration] or council can urge countries to stop death penalties.The European council urged Russsia to do the same and since 1997 they havent executed anyone since Eu's intervention..[exept from some assasinations
Its just barbaric, what gives you[the government] the right to kill your own citizens if they commit this crimes or are menaly ill..Is that the monopoly of commiting violence of the State?
I must say its pretty weird that of al the 1000 executions since '76 almost half of it is done in Texas? In the State of New York criminality has droped drastic and they dont have death sentence, how about that?.. Or are they just those stupid liberal Northereners




[edit on 22-8-2007 by Foppezao]

Originally posted by styxxz
…I apologise…
However the thought of uprising is scary when you consider that all the govt has to do is label them (the people) as terrorists and before you know it you're behind bars. So instead of passive observers I'd go with repressive observers...

No prob mate we all do it from time to time. Not sure about uprisings myself to be honest, that's not really what I'm suggesting even though they do have their place.
I think the only way things will ever really change for the better is if people start to realize we're getting nowhere relying on governments. They are selling us off to the highest bidder. We're not a population; we're a commodity to be used as 'they' need.
We need to organize. Look at the world leaders of governments and corporations, they are very organized and have their secret little clubs and old boy networks. When the workers tried to organize they were infiltrated and destroyed from the inside by agents of the ruling classes. Only a few big organizations (i.e. unions) survived, but only because they made massive compromises and sold the workers out.
The 'powers that be' are scared of the rest of us organizing so they control by perpetuating divisions in the population, be they class, race, or the football team you support. While we're fighting amongst ourselves they are getting rich off our backs and killing us in senseless wars.

We just need to refuse to play their game…

Originally posted by nickh


I don't know whether or not the State of Texas will take notice of this and change their policies, but I think I'd have to agree with what the EU is saying - there are more humane ways to punish murderers and rapists. Life imprisonment is probably a far worse fate than being executed - for most people at least.

Yeah and at the end who pays for the life of relative pleasure these criminals will enjoy until they die?

BTW the death penalty for murderers is not only a penalty for their murder crime, but a prevention for other murder crimes.

As far as I know rapists don't get the death penalty, but they should.

Originally posted by closettrekkie
I'm not sure how I stand on corporal punishment. There are some people whom I believe truly should be executed, such as serial killers, people that torture others and child molestation. But I also hate to see innocent people get killed because the justice system screwed up.

But what I have to ask is - what business is it of the EU?

I agree with you closettrekkie. What I have to wonder is why doesn't the EU demands the same from for example China and Iran?....

People get executed in those two countries, alongside some others, for lesser offenses, many having nothing to do with serious crimes.

In China you get the death penalty for tax evasion, having enough drugs on you that could be considered distribution, belonging to certain religions, being too pro-democratic, sometimes just because the state in China wants to claim that you are a threat to China they can execute you, or even just because your blood type is right and some rich person around the world needs your organs....

In Iran 16 year old girls get hanged for "having a sharp mouth", adultery gets you the death penalty, just as blasphemy, or even being too pro-democratic.

But does the EU says anything to them?...

Originally posted by infinite
They do.

The UN resolution on Darfur was drafted by Britain and France. European Union has sanctions on the Zimbabwe government, it has a weapons embargo on China. It's cancelled African debt, increased aid and helps in economic development.

Would you like me to give you more examples?

....Actually it was the U.S. who has been asking for this resolution and it was drafted by three countries....the United States, Britain and France.... i wonder why you left out the United States.....

...and it was the U.S. who asked to put sanctions in Dafur/Sudan and other countries....

March 14, 2007 (WASHINGTON) — The United States said Wednesday it would seek UN action against Sudan to force the Arab-led government to allow a UN-led peacekeeping force into its war-torn Darfur region.

www.sudantribune.com...

Press Statement
Sean McCormack, Spokesman
Washington, DC
August 30, 2006

U.S. Urges Immediate Passage of United Nations Security Council Resolution on Darfur

A proposed resolution that calls for the end to the violence in Darfur is now before the United Nations Security Council. The United States urges prompt passage of this extremely important resolution. United Nations peacekeepers are urgently needed to end the violence that has brought suffering to untold hundreds of thousands of people in the Darfur region. There must be no delay in the transition from the African Union force to the UN peacekeeping force. Darfur is on the verge of a dangerous downward spiral, and the suffering and the genocide must stop immediately.

www.state.gov...

I can go back several years and show you year by year what the U.S. has been doing trying to bring a resolution on dafur/Sudan meanwhile "Kofi Annan", in behalf of the UN was still claiming that there was no genocide going on in Dafur.....

Kofi Annan on Darfur, June 17, 2004: "Based on reports that I have
received, I cannot at this stage call it genocide. There are massive violations of international humanitarian law, but I am not ready to describe it as genocide or ethnic cleansing yet."

www.sudanreeves.org...

U.S. Calls Killings In Sudan Genocide
Khartoum and Arab Militias Are Responsible, Powell Says

By Glenn Kessler and Colum Lynch
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, September 10, 2004; Page A01

Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said for the first time yesterday that genocide has taken place in Sudan and that the government in Khartoum and government-sponsored Arab militias known as Janjaweed "bear responsibility" for rapes, killings and other abuses that have left 1.2 million black Africans homeless.

www.washingtonpost.com...


Before France was part of the resolution it was Britain and the U.S. who were referring such resolutions untill recently.

17 August 2006

U.S., U.K. Submit Resolution on U.N. Peacekeepers for Darfur
Deteriorating situation calls for action, U.S. diplomat says

United Nations -- The United States and the United Kingdom introduced a draft U.N. Security Council resolution August 17 for the "expeditious deployment" of a U.N. peacekeeping force in Darfur.

After a private meeting with the Security Council to present the resolution, U.S. Ambassador Jackie Sanders said, "Hopefully, we'll get a resolution adopted quickly and unanimously."

"We hope the government of Sudan will do its part," said Sanders, the deputy U.S. envoy to the United Nations.

usinfo.state.gov...

It wasn't that long ago that France decided to join in this resolution.

US says new draft UN resolution on Darfur will have timeline for deploying force
The Associated PressPublished: July 23, 2007

He said the U.S., Britain and France hope to have a draft resolution ready to circulate to Security Council members this week, although they are still making changes to alleviate the concerns of some countries on the 15-member council and Sudan.

www.iht.com...

The EU wanted to lift the weapons sanctions on China...and the U.S. requested the EU to not lift the weapons sanction on China.

US insists on military sanction against China
In the second half of January 2004, EU Foreign Ministers Meeting discussed nullifying the arms embargo on China regardless of American opposition. It was the first time that the EU re-examined the ban on arms sales to China over the past 15 years.

Recently, the call for lifting the arms embargo on China by European countries is heard much louder. From June 2003 to recent days, France, Germany, Italy and Holland have issued statements one after another, appealing for taking off the arms embargo on China as soon as possible. Pushed by many member countries, the European Union (EU) started to take action. In October 2003, the EU signed with China the Galileo program, the Civil Global Navigation Satellite System (GNSS), making the first step toward lifting arms embargo on China. In the second half of January 2004, EU Foreign Ministers Meeting discussed nullifying the arms embargo on China regardless of American opposition. It was the first time that the EU re-examined the ban on arms sales to China over the past 15 years.

english.people.com.cn...



[edit on 22-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Oh...and do you really want me to post some of the old news articles i have about the "forgiving the debt of African countries by the EU"?....

Anyways, back the EU urging Texas to stop the execution of murderers.

[edit on 22-8-2007 by Muaddib]

How very typical of any thread started by a European having the nerve to comment on anything American that it gets hi-jacked by expousing Anti-European rhetoric.
Who the # do you think you are, entitling you to comment and criticise anything to do with anyone and anywhere else but get so hot around the collar about anyone commenting on US affairs.
And the quality of the replies, barring one or two notable exceptions, please, so predictable;
"Keep out of our business because we are bigger and harder than you"
That's the biggest crock of you know what.
Get the biggest gun and shoot from the hip.
Sorry for showing disrespect to any members of US Armed Services, I actually have the utmost respect for you but some of the anal comments on this thread are beyond belief.
If you want to discuss isolationism try here;

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The anti-european sentiments expressed are, quite frankly, laughable.
You are by extension and extraction a predominantly European country. Your whole culture is an extension of european culture.
Your history is entwined with europe's.
These are facts.

Yes, it is, quite correctly, the right of US and State legislatures to determine policy but to question whether it should be discussed by EU, your allies or on this forum is quite frankly ridiculous. Grow up.

Originally posted by Freeborn
How very typical of any thread started by a European having the nerve to comment on anything American that it gets hi-jacked by expousing Anti-European rhetoric.

SO showing facts is "anti-European"?....

Looking back at the responses from members i can see some of the European members going way over the top in "anti-American rethoric"....

While the original poster was frank, and she did not say or do anything wrong, she has been stating her opinion, there is nothing wrong with that. however there are other Europeans responding in this thread who show nothing more than disdain and "anti-U.S. rhetoric."

Originally posted by Freeborn
Who the # do you think you are, entitling you to comment and criticise anything to do with anyone and anywhere else but get so hot around the collar about anyone commenting on US affairs.

We are American citizens who have our own opinion on what the U.S. should or should not do...

Who are you to want to stop Americans from expressing their opinions?...

Originally posted by Freeborn
"Keep out of our business because we are bigger and harder than you"
That's the biggest crock of you know what.
Get the biggest gun and shoot from the hip.

No one even suggested anything like that, but your remark only shows your own disdain for Americans and the U.S.

Originally posted by Freeborn
The anti-european sentiments expressed are, quite frankly, laughable.
You are by extension and extraction a predominantly European country. Your whole culture is an extension of european culture.
Your history is entwined with europe's.
These are facts.

And you are an extension of barbarians who not too long ago were still raping and pillaging villages.... does that make you still barbarians?

The U.S. has it's own culture, which yes it is a myriad of other cultures many of them also native American, from the Caribbean and South American.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Yes, it is, quite correctly, the right of US and State legislatures to determine policy but to question whether it should be discussed by EU, your allies or on this forum is quite frankly ridiculous. Grow up.

Perhaps you should be pointing out, or excerpting those members you are referring to, but at the end, everyone is entitled to their opinion right?....

Originally posted by styxxz
I suppose you're gunna tell us the American people actually voted for this govt, gimme a break..
For what it's worth, the EU is right, imo...

Well, I am an American, well, i should say "Cuban-American" since i was born in Cuba and became a U.S. citizen in 1994. Anyways, yes i can tell you that we did vote for president Bush. There is no shame in that despite the rethoric made by some about it.

[edit on 22-8-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
I agree with you closettrekkie. What I have to wonder is why doesn't the EU demands the same from for example China and Iran?....

ashame it does,
heck, we even say the same to your homeland of Cuba.

The EU still has an embargo on Cuba.

i wonder why you left out the United States.....

Because it was Prime Minister Brown and President Sarzoky who put it to the UN

Looking back at the responses from members i can see some of the European members going way over the top in "anti-American rethoric"....

I'm sorry, did I make you cry again?