Are Homosexuals Christian, Can They Be Forgiven?

Originally posted by janasstar
I'd like to further reiterate here that the bible is NOT God's Word!!!! It CONTAINS God's Word!!!

That's not what the Bible says! Are you saying you know better than the Bible?

Wait a minute, if the Bible is NOT God's word, but merely contains God's word, who decides what is God's word and what isn’t? Popular opinion? (Kind of like how presidents are elected in the US). Can you cherry pick what you want from the Bible that suits you best?

Do you really think God has given you this authority? Aren’t you a bit arrogant?

Originally posted by janasstar
Oh I see! So you're having fun tormenting me with them? Won't work! I've been redeemed from the curse of the law. I am not going to give you the scriptural reference on that, but HINT, it's in the NT.

no, i'm not having fun tormenting you, i'm making a point...

homosexuality is only listed as bad in the OT...
the OT laws don't apply to you now

voila, no more ignorant bigotry towards homosexuals.

Homosexuality is a non-issue, and any Christians treating it as an issue need to go get a hobby.

Religions have no control on how an American chooses to live their life. Therefore it should not even be a point of conjecture and discussion to them. Like I said, it's a non-issue and always will be.

Originally posted by janasstar

Originally posted by darkheartrising
speaking from personal experience, my girlfriend/lover/roomate has stopped going to her mormon church since we began dating (i'm her first

) she said they would have excommunicated (sp?) her anyways since they view homosexuality as bad as murder.

Sweetheart, I don't want to step on any toes, but the Mormons are a cult religion.

A Christian calling another sect a cult.

Am I the only one seeing the hilarity and irony here?

reply to post by IhateGod


If you hate God, why do you care? But let me give you an illustration, just so you don't think I'm trying to side-step your question. The bible contains stories about murder, slavery, rape, incest, lying, stealing, witchcraft, etc. If you think about it, I don't think you have to be a theologian to realize that this is not God's Word. I hope this helped. I am not trying to be a smarty pants. I once thought the same thing.

ATTENTION READERS!: At present I am experiencing some health problems. I have asked the mods to close some of my threads. I see that this thread doesn't need much monitoring. You all seem to be able to talk among yourselves for answers. I will still drop in from time to time. I stay in front of my pc anyway. But I don't want the responsibilty of trying to give IN DEPTH answers at this point to very vital questions. If I see that it becomes necessary, I will close the thread, but for the time being, you guys are doing a good job. Jana

Originally posted by janasstar

If you hate God, why do you care?

The world is dying to know, and the Self-Appointed Champions of the Faith are seeking intelligent discussion on the matter!!

But as for Homosexuals, as I said . . they should be welcome as Christians. The original hate toward Homosexuals came from the book of Leviticus, in the Jewish Tanakh, or Old Testament, and was cited by Paul of Tarsus and his peeps while they were trying to 'preach the gospel' across openly Homosexual Asia Minor and Macedonia/Greece/Rome. The Greek and the Gentile are different; the Greek is an educated logical idolater, while the Gentile is the uneducated, more tribal oriented idolater, such as the "Barbarian Tribes" of the time. These were also visited, the lands of Samo-Thrace (Thracians and Sarmatians tribesmen) which were just north of Constantinople.

In The Middle East, these practices of rampant Homosexuality were not a norm, because the core tenets of Judaism, and therefore even the idolater pagan religions of the nearby Arab Tribesmen and so forth were much against this, seeing it as unnatural. So preaching against it was not necessary in those lands, as it had already been done by the Old Testament Saints and Prophets.

No, to bring Christianity to the World, to the people of the World as Yeshua promised it to be, it needed to be given to a man who had Roman citizenry the task of preaching to these people. And Paul, formerly Saul the persecutor, was chosen by Yeshua for this task, as it is beautifully written in the New Testament books written by Paul / about Paul explaining the beginning of the Christian Church just after Yeshua's Crucifixion.

If you can understand the climate of the time, the people Paul was speaking to, and the fact that they became the beginning of what is now the Catholic Church (among other Churches), you can start to understand how Homosexuality being Taboo was unfortunately carried on through the ages. I personally think that if a Man does not exclusively have sex with just other Men, he is not commiting evil because we all seek pleasures, we all sin. Just because my pleasure or yours may not involve butt-sex, doesnt mean butt-sex should be considered a damnable offense to "Hell" if such a place exists as described. Who is to say what habits for pleasure are damnable and which are forgivable? Only God, and no Man except Yeshua could or can ever claim authority to be speaking for God, and Yeshua did not make explicitly anti-Gay remarks in his sermons.

[edit on 8/21/2007 by runetang]

Love the Father

Love One another as I have loved you

Loving one another means loving one another regardless of sex be it male or female.

Loving one another does not equate to Sexual relations with one another

If sexual contact was only to produce a child, there would be no homosexuality.

Therefore...Homosexuality from the standpoint of pure unbiased love for one another from a sensuality standpoint boils down to fetish and a weakness of the flesh.

For it is written:
nasb.scripturetext.com...

Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

Love Equality means that intercourse by man and woman is for the purpose of the Grand design, which is for the creation of life.

That being said, everything is permissable, but not everything is beneficial

Such is the way of the weakness of the flesh

Therefore, it is for no man to Judge your friend nor do I judge.

However, I do bring to your remembrance what has been written, and a reminder to caution ones self as to the dangers imparted by weakness of the flesh

Obey the Father

Peace



[edit on 22-8-2007 by HIFIGUY]

[edit on 22-8-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by ModernDystopia

Originally posted by janasstar

Originally posted by darkheartrising
speaking from personal experience, my girlfriend/lover/roomate has stopped going to her mormon church since we began dating (i'm her first

) she said they would have excommunicated (sp?) her anyways since they view homosexuality as bad as murder.

Sweetheart, I don't want to step on any toes, but the Mormons are a cult religion.

A Christian calling another sect a cult.

Am I the only one seeing the hilarity and irony here?

Maybe you are not as well read as you think your self to be. For I am not the only Christian that realizes Mormonism as well as Jehovah's witness' , etc . to be cult religions. The Word tells us that everyone that says 'Lord, Lord!" is not of Him! He warned us of 'wolves in sheeps clothing,' and advised "test every spirit to see if it be of God!" And there are certain guidelines for adhering to Christian principles, vs. cult practices.

Originally posted by ModernDystopia
Homosexuality is a non-issue, and any Christians treating it as an issue need to go get a hobby.

Religions have no control on how an American chooses to live their life. Therefore it should not even be a point of conjecture and discussion to them. Like I said, it's a non-issue and always will be.

Forgive me for saying so, but there are plenty of homosexuals that think it's an issue. I appreciate everyone's opinion here, but this thread is open for the purpose of people getting answers. I don't have all the answers, but maybe working together, we can come up with some. But to say it is a non-issue is really sticking your head in the sand. Maybe there are gay people that do not struggle with this issue, but I happen to know that there are some who do. So if you don't mind sir, I'd like for everyone to gain as much as they can here. If this thread is disturbing to you, your participation is not required.

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Love the Father

Love One another as I have loved you

Loving one another means loving one another regardless of sex be it male or female.

Loving one another does not equate to Sexual relations with one another

If sexual contact was only to produce a child, there would be no homosexuality.

Therefore...Homosexuality from the standpoint of pure unbiased love for one another from a sensuality standpoint boils down to fetish and a weakness of the flesh.

incorrect. if someone is born and is unable to feel attraction for a member of the opposite sex and feels attraction to a member of the same sex it isn't a weakness of the flesh, it's WHO THEY ARE.

you analyze this like it's a simple problem of philosophy, it's in fact a problem of biology. who these people are is a product of their birth, not a weakness of their flesh.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Love the Father

Love One another as I have loved you

Loving one another means loving one another regardless of sex be it male or female.

Loving one another does not equate to Sexual relations with one another

If sexual contact was only to produce a child, there would be no homosexuality.

Therefore...Homosexuality from the standpoint of pure unbiased love for one another from a sensuality standpoint boils down to fetish and a weakness of the flesh.

incorrect. if someone is born and is unable to feel attraction for a member of the opposite sex and feels attraction to a member of the same sex it isn't a weakness of the flesh, it's WHO THEY ARE.

you analyze this like it's a simple problem of philosophy, it's in fact a problem of biology. who these people are is a product of their birth, not a weakness of their flesh.

Madness, this is exactly the point that I was trying to make to another reader. There are issues that need to be brought up and put on the table for discussion. You bring up very excellent points on this. Some of the very ones I'm talking about. I want differing opinions on what you have said here. I have already stated mine, based on what I understand as a believer of the written Word, and believing in a loving and merciful God.
So. I am here to learn also.

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]

reply to post by janasstar


I would like to reflect on this theologically. God's Word is not a book. God's Word is made flesh in Jesus of Nazareth. The Word made flesh is the point of supreme reference for a believer in Him. The sacred books house the sacred memories and words of power and love spoken by God to humanity through the Hebrew people and through the Word mad flesh and His followers.

The sacred memories provide a teaching that is a touchstone for understanding the life of the Word of God made flesh and for understanding the nature of the Divine: as John records, "God is love."

The Word made flesh allowed His arms to be stretched upon the wood of the cross so that He might open His arms to embrace all creation, all creation, and redeem the whole of it through His love poured out like His blood upon the ground and the wood of the cross. His embrace is timeless and He embraces all of us no matter how time and experience may have twisted our thinking, our hearts, or our souls.

To the eternity of Heaven's reality the Spirit and the Bride of the Word say "Come!" All are being called with equal love regardless of who they love or do not love. But to answer the call to Come to Eternity with God one must find away to love, and to enlarge one's love through the sharing of God's love.

Then the soul -- no matter how battered the heart or broken the spirit -- can turn to God and from the very depths of one's being say in return to God's invitation, "Even so, come quickly." And God will quickly come to us now. And God will quickly come and draw us to Himself when time is full to overflowing and the secrets of hearts are revealed.

[edit on 23/8/07 by Pellevoisin]

God is Jealous God and he does get angry at our sins I do believe. Especially the ones where we ask to be forgiven and then go and do them again. Jesus died for all of our sins past, present, and future. We will all fall short. It is hard to about Homosexuals the bible speaks really direct on this issue. This is one of the worst sins to God. It is a abomination, But it also says in the bible that once someone enters and receives Jesus into their life's then nothing can separate them. I also believe that if Homosexuals consider themselves Christians then a part of them will always feel a since of discomfort when the perform their sins. Just like I feel when I sin. God inside me pulls at my heart when I do something wrong.

reply to post by Mrknighttime32


what's really funny is that the bible uses the word "abomination" to directly describe something (and it isn't homosexuality), long hair on males...

now, the bible says that it's a sin against god to eat pork, wear blended fabrics, and it explicitly states that men are inherently superior to women...

do you follow those laws, do you believe all of that?
i'm going to highly doubt that... so why is it that you have this hangup on the obvious bigotry found in bronze age society? why do you consider the bigotry of man to be the word of your god?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Mrknighttime32

 

what's really funny is that the bible uses the word "abomination" to directly describe something (and it isn't homosexuality), long hair on males...

now, the bible says that it's a sin against god to eat pork, wear blended fabrics, and it explicitly states that men are inherently superior to women...

do you follow those laws, do you believe all of that?
i'm going to highly doubt that... so why is it that you have this hangup on the obvious bigotry found in bronze age society? why do you consider the bigotry of man to be the word of your god?

Madness, I'm going to try to take a stab at this. As long as you keep dredging up OT laws and maybe the viewpoints of the apostles in those days, to born-again believers--it's not going to wash, because it's not what we live by, and it's not what we see when we read the bible. You're missing the point of it, because you're reading it with the wrong purpose. Anyone can read the bible and make it say pretty much anything they want to. But most Christians look at it as it was intended--We were redeemed from the curse of the law! We have forgiveness because of what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe that He is the Son of God. And contrary to what non-believers think; NO! we don't go skipping thru life saying, "oh boy! I can sin anytime I want to! I have a get out of jail free card!" NO! because the price Jesus paid was too terrible! A person would have to be a sociopath to have this line of reasoning. We love our Lord. We hurt for what He suffered. We do the best we can, and if we do find our selves in sin, 'we have an Advocate with the Father Who pleads our case.'

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Mrknighttime32

 

what's really funny is that the bible uses the word "abomination" to directly describe something (and it isn't homosexuality), long hair on males...

now, the bible says that it's a sin against god to eat pork, wear blended fabrics, and it explicitly states that men are inherently superior to women...

do you follow those laws, do you believe all of that?
i'm going to highly doubt that... so why is it that you have this hangup on the obvious bigotry found in bronze age society? why do you consider the bigotry of man to be the word of your god?

[Read above post, page froze up]

[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]

reply to post by Pellevoisin


Thank you! That was so eloquently spoken, it could only have been spiritually inspired(IMO). God bless.


[edit on 08/11/2007 by janasstar]

reply to post by janasstar


just my point, you don't have to listen to the old law (though the long hair thing is definitely in the NT, as is the stuff about men being greater than women) and my other point is that the new law is really no better... in the NT, who talks about homosexuality more, paul or jesus? the answer is paul, as jesus says ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about it. hell, it's only mentioned in the NT 6 times and the first time is in romans.

and again, the arguement still stands that, if these people are born that way, why is it a sin? would your god make people homosexuals as a cruel test?

The issue of sin is black and white in Gods eyes. sin is death. It leads to hell.
However the gospel states that any who believe that Christ Jesus is the son of God and testify to it, they will be saved. According to Jesus and Gods word, all sins are forgiven through Christ. Those who sin after being saved simply won't inherit as much in Gods kingdom. Homosexuality is a sin in Gods eyes.