Where did the matter come from that formed the big bang?

Originally posted by AnybodyInThere087
If all space and matter came from a little speck,where in the hell did the speck come from?jeez has it been here forever?something had to make it.

No it didn't.

The universe isn't a bus. It doesn't "come from" and it isn't "going to" anywhere. It is just the totality of existence, in all space and time. Asking "what came before the first event?" is as stupid as asking "what is North of the North Pole?"

Originally posted by JonN

Originally posted by AnybodyInThere087
If all space and matter came from a little speck,where in the hell did the speck come from?jeez has it been here forever?something had to make it.

No it didn't.

The universe isn't a bus. It doesn't "come from" and it isn't "going to" anywhere. It is just the totality of existence, in all space and time. Asking "what came before the first event?" is as stupid as asking "what is North of the North Pole?"

if you accept the fact that the big bang happened it isn't to far fetched to believe it was created by something else as someone else said String theory

it is FAR from a stupid question

however your reply is about the stupidest i've seen in along time.


i think EVERYONE wants to know the answer to this question

don't be an ass.

reply to post by Gakus


We lack any information about a "something else" however. Until we have that data, we can't include it for consideration.

I do not beleive in the 'Big Bang' theory but i would imagine that as the big bang comes out of an infinately small point (singularity) that it started from the inside of a black hole.

In my opinion the Big Bang is a theory, not some empirical proof from science. There is no logical reason to suppose the Big Bang is more true than the Big Crunch, or even stranger theories still.

We don't know the laws that govern the apparent manifestations of atoms. We can look at an atom and go "see, this is a proton, this is a neutron, they form a nucleus around which electrons circle" and talk about weak and strong forces, electromagnetism, and all this other stuff, but we have no idea how, where, or why they arose in our cosmos.

The Big Bang puts a limit on something which we can't prove as a limit, therefore its more logical to assume that it is limitless, despite the fact that the concept of infinity challenges our ideas of what is logical and rational. Furthermore there is no reason to postulate an absolute beginning of all things, only beginnings in a transient sense, and therefore I also accept an eternal cosmos as the logical duration of the existence of the universe itself, even if the forms within that universe may come together and disperse now and again through whatever means.

Ok science doesent really know what caused the universe to come into existence but there is a damn good theory out there and its one i agree with. heres a link

cyclic universe

Originally posted by Gakus

Originally posted by JonN

Originally posted by AnybodyInThere087
If all space and matter came from a little speck,where in the hell did the speck come from?jeez has it been here forever?something had to make it.

No it didn't.

The universe isn't a bus. It doesn't "come from" and it isn't "going to" anywhere. It is just the totality of existence, in all space and time. Asking "what came before the first event?" is as stupid as asking "what is North of the North Pole?"

if you accept the fact that the big bang happened it isn't to far fetched to believe it was created by something else as someone else said String theory

it is FAR from a stupid question

however your reply is about the stupidest i've seen in along time.


i think EVERYONE wants to know the answer to this question

don't be an ass.

He's not being an ass, he is correct. Your question is unanswerable, as it doesn't properly incorporate the big bang theory, but rather your sloppy interpretation of it.

The universe is the sum total of all that exists, and since "time" did not exist before the big bang, there is no "before" the big bang. The question itself is an oxymoron.

reply to post by AnybodyInThere087


Yeah, I personally think it has been there forever. University can somehow to be compared to a breath. It expands and retracts. Due the very long period of time, it kinda expands, but then - perhaps because of the black holes - starts to pull together again. Eventually, the black holes would consume each other, ending to a single massive blackhole that cannot hold the amount of energy forming within it and it will again blow that all out again (exhale - inhale).

I never examined this very carefully, it is just a "feeling" or an "intution". I have no idea what really happens.

-v

This question really puzzles and annoys me. And the fact that its a question that nobody can possibly answer aswell, and therefore is a perfect situation for people to believe in a creator. It makes me question just what to put any faith into if anything. There is not a religion on this Earth that i am willing to believe or go along with, yet to go 'athiest' and put faith in science at this point still leaves this question unanswered aswell, and where to then? To believe in something that nobody knows what it is that may of possibly put in place the building blocks of existence as we know it, well if so what/who created that something in the first place and then what/who created the something that created the first something and so on.
See it all gets a bit silly now. And there is also the well it just is theory, which doesnt give any answers nor does it make much sense.
Dont get me wrong i do believe science holds the key to unlocking many of the mysteries of the universe its just we are destined to never know the real answer. And if im wrong about the whole religion thing then well im happy in the knowledge i put myself in that situation.

[edit on 11-11-2009 by pazcat]

Originally posted by GW8UK
I do not beleive in the 'Big Bang' theory but i would imagine that as the big bang comes out of an infinately small point (singularity) that it started from the inside of a black hole.

yes, but the ''black-hole' was in another dimension,
in our instantly begun dimension/Universe, we would have seen the 'big-bang' as the 'White-Hole' singularity of almost infinite energy.

the'white-hole' emptied a vast ammount of energy strings, which spilled into this newly created universe at a super-hyper rate we called 'Inflation'

as the energy strings aged/cooled, the energy condensed into particles

One word -Inevitability

View the Mulitverses as an infinite strata of matter swirling around in an ether ( infinite energy source ) coalescing into organization ( orbits and orbs ) and chaos ( implosion and explosion) and you have the formula for a creation that is designed to perform every known combination of possibility.

Its therefore inevitable that if you have all possibility ( I know this sounds like Ike but he has this bit right IMO ) then the appearance of a Big Bang has to be there if you look for it, not because its more important or a catalyst for the start of everything but simply that its part of all things that can be possible.

What is Existence and Non existence?

We can only measure and observe Existence. But does that mean Non existence doesn't exist?

Existence is: Energy and matter. (finite)

Non existence is: No energy and matter. (infinite)

What if i say: Non existence makes finite energy infinite. Whats your thought about that?

.




ARE, THEN, they who are bent on denying the truth not aware that the heavens and the earth were one single entity, which We then parted asunder? (Qur'an, 21:30)




.

Bang...

reply to post by spy66


Regarding existence....

Existence does Not require Matter or Energy !

Concepts can exist, which are neither "Matter" as you call it, or for that matter "Energy"

So where does "Energy" come from and where does "Matter" come from?

Bearing in mind that matter consists both of “Form” as well as “Contents”.

So where does "Form" come from ???

"Form" can exist without "Matter" or "Energy" but instead exist as Concepts in Awareness !

Or is Energy and Matter just the result of "Concepts" in the form of a program of Instructions and Rules or Laws?

Isn't it strange how humankind are so desperate, for so called reality to be Physical.

But what really is Physical as you call it ????

Is it really as solid as you believe ???

Or is this purelly an experience, that is the result of a program being Run in some "processing system" that is Not Physical at all ???

I have always asked myself this question. I don't believe in the Big Bang theory personally, it just leaves too many unanswered questions, and I don't like how it has become the default theory in astrophysics.

On another note, I might sound completely ridiculous, but could we (as in this universe) actually be inside a black hole? I don't really understand all the technicalities of black holes, but since we now think the universe growing more slowly, cant that mean that whatever is feeding the black hole has been pulled in already and there isn't much left around where it is getting its source. To go even farther, could black holes be a link to the fourth or higher dimensions, and this whole 3rd dimensional matter-based universe is just what results when 4th dimensional energy enters into the black hole?

Just trying to throw out some new ideas.

Originally posted by AnybodyInThere087
yea but how did light get here from just darkness and infinite black and nothingness????!?!?!?!makes you wonder huh buddy

Who says there was ever darkness and infinite black and nothingness? You're limiting the kinds of answers you can get by the questions you ask. Here's a possibility that makes your question meaningless. What if "time" moves in more than one direction? What if all kinds of energy/matter natually slip backwards and forwards and sideways in time? That would mean there is no beginning as we understand it, and therefore nothing before such a beginning.

It's very possible that on many levels the Universe drifts through all kinds of strange times and dimensions that we can barely understand, and that our notion of time only "moving" in one direction is only a limitation of our perceptions and imagination.

Originally posted by AnybodyInThere087
If all space and matter came from a little speck,where in the hell did the speck come from?jeez has it been here forever?something had to make it.

That's what Physicists call asking the wrong question....

....the only questions science can answer begin with a question that can be quantitatively answered.

It does make your brain hurt thought trying to comprehend non-existence becoming existence, or how there had to be something before our universe. Maybe our human brains cannot comprehend this anymore than animals cannot comprehend the works of shakespeare.

Although the string theory & megaverse may explain this, with universe's popping up and disappearing within set dimensions. Hmmm, but what about before the string??? Arghhh!!!

[edit on 11-11-2009 by john124]

reply to post by pazcat

And the fact that its a question that nobody can possibly answer aswell, and therefore is a perfect situation for people to believe in a creator.

Believing in a creator doesn't really answer the unknowns, as you don't know who or what created the "creator" That's the same problem as there was before.

[edit on 11-11-2009 by john124]

reply to post by AnybodyInThere087


There are a few possibilities

1) It was always there and everything is infinite
2) It has a start date and was either Created by a Creator or formed through some other unknown process


No one really knows, its one of those deep philosophical questions that makes it truly amazing to be human, just staring up into the vastness going "Where did all this come from?"

We really don't know and we're still pretty primitive as a species so it might take a while to find out or it might very well be unanswerable.

Originally posted by The Matrix Traveller
reply to post by spy66

 

Regarding existence....

Existence does Not require Matter or Energy !

Concepts can exist, which are neither "Matter" as you call it, or for that matter "Energy"

So where does "Energy" come from and where does "Matter" come from?

Bearing in mind that matter consists both of “Form” as well as “Contents”.

So where does "Form" come from ???

"Form" can exist without "Matter" or "Energy" but instead exist as Concepts in Awareness !

Or is Energy and Matter just the result of "Concepts" in the form of a program of Instructions and Rules or Laws?

Isn't it strange how humankind are so desperate, for so called reality to be Physical.

But what really is Physical as you call it ????

Is it really as solid as you believe ???

Or is this purelly an experience, that is the result of a program being Run in some "processing system" that is Not Physical at all ???

Where does Existence come from if there is no connection between Non existence and existence?

Is there a connection between 0 and 1?

Non existing is Infinite. But existence is a finite that is only infinite because it can change indefinitely. Existence can never become Non existing.

The two will always be different. But Non existence will never change. But Existence will always change.

Can existence evolve without non existence?

Would that be like saying: Can 1 evolve or change if it is infinite space.

Or would it need the infinite space of nothingness to change and become something new?


When it comes to the connection between 0 and 1. Non existence and existence. There has to be a third source of some kind. If not 1 would never have existed.

[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]