Is Sleeper John Lear?

RedEyes, you don't want a clarification, you just want to squash him -- this is very apparent. Who gives a hoot about some ridiculous minor discrepancies that you are seeing in his telling of what happened one day 19 yrs ago!! Give me a break. This kind of fussiness is so annoying and irritating -- I just hope you're having fun but I'm telling you right now that you've ruined my day by sucking all of the joy out of it by posting here. I enjoyed Lear's story about him and Klass and I'm sure many others here did too.

Originally posted by Palasheea
RedEyes, talk about pettiness! Members here were, up until now, were having a pleasant conversation in this thread but then you came along hoping to ruin everybody's fun by nitpicking on totally unimportant details on what happened between Klass and Lear at that Mufon convention that happened NINETEEN YEARS AGO!

hahahaha, most people on ats do that palasheea. you've never seen it before have you? It's done lot's of times were the topic is derailed, and the rare times were there is a supar topic on the forums. I honestly don't believe spleeper, specially some of his posts that have been kind of beyond wierd. But i wonder why people believe in without any evidence, and they don't even know what he looks like. That's humans for you i guess. That's why i star away from people like him. Mr. Lear, i don't know what to believe, maybe, maybe not. One day we will find out. Anyway, i don't think sleeper is john lear, my two cents.

Originally posted by Palasheea
RedEyes, you don't want a clarification, you just want to squash him -- this is very apparent. Who gives a hoot about some ridiculous minor discrepancies that you are seeing in his telling of what happened one day 19 yrs ago!! Give me a break. This kind of fussiness is so annoying and irritating -- I just hope you're having fun but I'm telling you right now that you've ruined my day by sucking all of the joy out of it by posting here. I enjoyed Lear's story about him and Klass and I'm sure many others here did too.

If that was all it took to ruin your day you're in for a hard life. I think I've been very polite to John and I don't see why you're having such a hard time. Is it so bad to want to get the facts straight? I wouldn't mind, but I didn't bring it up. John can discuss whatever he likes here as can anyone, and he decided to tell us of this little encounter. If I find a discrepancy or there is something I don't understand I will question it, and hopefully get a response.
You do know what the tag line for ATS is don't you? You aren't denying ignorance at all. You're actually trying to deny someone the right to clarify something...

Originally posted by malakiem

hahahaha, most people on ats do that palasheea. you've never seen it before have you? It's done lot's of times were the topic is derailed, and the rare times were there is a supar topic on the forums. I honestly don't believe spleeper, specially some of his posts that have been kind of beyond wierd. But i wonder why people believe in without any evidence, and they don't even know what he looks like. That's humans for you i guess. That's why i star away from people like him. Mr. Lear, i don't know what to believe, maybe, maybe not. One day we will find out. Anyway, i don't think sleeper is john lear, my two cents.

Malakiem, are you being serious? Do you think I'm doing this on purpose? Do you not see the discpreancy I mentioned? If you did would you not like to clarify it? I don't think I can be more polite and open than I have been. Why the hostility from you and Palasheea?

I rather enjoyed John's story. His relaying of anecdotes is when he is at his best. In fact, I'd like to know more about the MUFON/Lear rift, if John cares to share it. Here john got he best speakers in ufology at the time and MUFON wouldn't let them speak? What's up with that? I think I quit MUFON at about that time frame--they just bored me.

Originally posted by Palasheea
RedEyes, talk about pettiness! Members here were, up until now, were having a pleasant conversation in this thread but then you came along hoping to ruin everybody's fun by nitpicking on totally unimportant details on what happened between Klass and Lear at that Mufon convention that happened NINETEEN YEARS AGO! Do you remember every excruciating detail of something that happened 19 yrs ago??

What in the world. Palasheea think about it for a minute, there are two stories completely contradictary to each other in their meaning and intent and you are defending like a mother bear.

Chill out and let John explain. Redeyes has every right and actually a responsibility to "deny ignorance" by questioning such a thing.

My 2 cents

Originally posted by RedEyes

Originally posted by malakiem

hahahaha, most people on ats do that palasheea. you've never seen it before have you? It's done lot's of times were the topic is derailed, and the rare times were there is a supar topic on the forums. I honestly don't believe spleeper, specially some of his posts that have been kind of beyond wierd. But i wonder why people believe in without any evidence, and they don't even know what he looks like. That's humans for you i guess. That's why i star away from people like him. Mr. Lear, i don't know what to believe, maybe, maybe not. One day we will find out. Anyway, i don't think sleeper is john lear, my two cents.

Malakiem, are you being serious? Do you think I'm doing this on purpose? Do you not see the discpreancy I mentioned? If you did would you not like to clarify it? I don't think I can be more polite and open than I have been. Why the hostility from you and Palasheea?

That wasn't toward you redeyes, just to clarrify. I'm not taking sides, i'm agreeing with her that it happens, not that it happened in this thread. So i'm not taking sides, and i'm not flaming you. Sorry if my post was a misleading. Watch out for some a-holes on here, i won't name names, but don't be surprised when your burned. Don't take to heart, and just flick it off.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by malakiem]

Originally posted by schuyler
I rather enjoyed John's story. His relaying of anecdotes is when he is at his best. In fact, I'd like to know more about the MUFON/Lear rift, if John cares to share it. Here john got he best speakers in ufology at the time and MUFON wouldn't let them speak? What's up with that? I think I quit MUFON at about that time frame--they just bored me.

I agree, I never knew of Johns past with MUFON. Hopefully he'll be back to give us more information regarding this, and if Palasheea allows it we may be able to ask a question or two. I'm ever the optimist.

RedEyes... why are you're eyes red? At any rate, I'll be here with a box of tissues to wipe away the tears of your lament in case John does come back to answer some of your questions about him, Klass and MUFON where you end up unsatisfied with whatever he says about it for probably numerous reasons only you can come up with. But don't despair! You can always pick up some Visine at CVS to get the red out fer sure!

Originally posted by Palasheea
Sleeper, why did I have it in my mind that you're head was in the shape of a double helix?

I’m sure I disappointed some people with that photo---

But can see it's not that at all and between you and John it's a definite draw! Thanks for the photo! It really does make a big difference when one can place a face to whomever is posting here... especially you and John!

Yeah but he is sitting inside of a fighter jet, if Milton wasn’t so by the book he would let me pose outside his ship---I bet I would look better than John then---

Edit: Serously. It could be that you were part of a human genome DNA adjustment of sorts by Milton or whomever?? I wouldn't be surprised.

My wife thinks I’m an alien, and I am, I came to America in 1957 when my parents moved here from Italy. I became a US citizen when they did.

Thx interestedalways I'm glad someone can see where I'm coming from. Nice sig btw sweet tune. Malakiem - no problem I may have been on the defensive slightly I think you can see why.

Originally posted by Palasheea
RedEyes... why are you're eyes red? At any rate, I'll be here with a box of tissues to wipe away the tears of your lament in case John does come back to answer some of your questions about him, Klass and MUFON where you end up unsatisfied with whatever he says about it for probably numerous reasons only you can come up with. But don't despair! You can always pick up some Visine at CVS to get the red out fer sure!

And to Palasheea, I really don't know what to say. I think you're in the minority reagrding this issue. But keep with the jokes I think you're onto a winner with that.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by RedEyes]

Sleeper --
Ah ha! If your wife thinks you're an alien then you probably are... She would know better than you I'm sure!

Originally posted by keeb333

Originally posted by johnlear
I mean, after all, where else would your soul go when you pass away?

Are being serious?

Guys, I have come to the conclusion that Mr. Lear must be having quite a laugh at all of the people on the web who will believe ANYTHING!

Way to go John, but a SOUL CATCHER? on the MOON?

Come on, man, you can't be serious!

BTW, my reaction is from the standpoint of a biochemist, and I mean you no disrespect. If these are in fact your sincere beliefs, then I apologize. It just seems to me like some sort of a joke or prank.

John Lears theories are no more extreme then main stream religious ones. Most of the religious population believe their souls go to heaven. So where is heaven? Do you stand in a church when you hear it's wild claims exclaiming "are you serious". No? I didn't think so. I am truly amazed how the bible is believed.

RedEyes, I hope for your sake Lear comes back here to answer some of your questions because I just don't know how much more of this awful burden of martyrdom that you're having to endure at this moment I can take.

Originally posted by Palasheea
RedEyes, I hope for your sake Lear comes back here to answer some of your questions because I just don't know how much more of this awful burden of martyrdom that you're having to endure at this moment I can take.

Taking my advice. Sticking to the jokes. I thought this was a place for intelligent discussion. Are you going to continue coming back just to make funny ( i use this word very lightly )? Seriously, wouldn't a teenage chat room be more sufficient for your needs?

Originally posted by RedEyes

Thx interestedalways I'm glad someone can see where I'm coming from.
I am surprised no one else has touched this one honestly.
It is like a fan club or something with the derail attempts and silliness.

Nice sig btw sweet tune.

You have good taste!

You know I never actually read where either John Lear of Sleeper actually said they weren't the same guy. Sleeper offered a different picture on a book, but they more or less danced around the issue with an assumption that of course they weren't.

Here was John's answer

As far as me being Sleeper, he is not buying into the BSMOTM (Big Soul Machine On The Moon). Does that mean I am not buying into my own theory?

And here is Sleepers

Yeah, well Milton thinks John is better looking too---

Anyway here is me back ten years ago. That’s all I have and I’m too lazy to take a current picture.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by interestedalways]

[edit on 9-8-2007 by interestedalways]

Originally posted by RedEyes

Here you mention that you were the first speaker on Sunday morning and before you started you had Phil thrown out as he was not welcome.

So I have 2 questions:-

1) If Phil wasn't welcome why was he let in and why do you make a badge for him?

2) You say you had Phil thrown out in the morning before you started speaking, but in your previous post ( see above ) you state you went over to him as everyone was leaving in the afternoon to tell him what you had done to his badge.

I find these facts confusing. I hope you don't think I'm trying to find holes in theories and stories, I'm not, I just what to try and get all the facts straight. Thanks in advance.

As MUFON Nevada State director I was invited to host the 1988 Convention here in Las Vegas at the Alladin Hotel. I lined up the most popular speakers of the day which were myself, Bill Cooper, Don Ecker and Bill English and put them on Saturday. On Sunday Walt Andrus had suggested some other speakers and so we had them lined up for speaking on Sunday.

I forget the date of the convention but I had already released the infamous Lear hypothesis. Not only that but I was actually uttering the word 'alien' in mixed company as if flying saucers might have aliens in them.

The week before the convention Walt Andrus called and said that the Board of Directors of MUFON had met and had decided that they didn't want me, Bill Cooper, Don Ecker or Bill English speaking at the MUFON Conference. I countered that I was the Host. Walt said, "nevertheless..."

So I put the Sunday speakers on Saturday and Walt helped me line up some different speakers for Sunday.

Meanwhile I went to the Alladin Hotel management and bought and paid for (with my own money) a separate room (only accidentally right next to the MUFON room) for Sunday, for me, Bill, Don and Bill to speak. I made our own signs which were only coincidentally exactly like the MUFON signs.

I was Host of the MUFON Convention and so I was in charge of making the nametags. There was no way I could refuse a name tag for Phil Klass on behalf of MUFON. I just happend to add a little extra note on it.

Saturday night Bill Moore made his infamous confession that he was a disinformation agent along with Richard C. Doty claiming to have disinformed Paul Bennewitz.

Sunday morning MUFON had their speakers and right next door (in Vegas the so-called 'ballrooms' are dividable into separate convention rooms) to ours. It was a madhouse. Hundreds of people were clammoring for tickets a $20 bucks a pop to get in to hear me, Bill C., Bill E. and Don and nobody wanted to hear the (or actually very few) officially sanctioned MUFON speakers. It was just before I was going to speak around 9am that the incident with Klass occurred. I saw his arrogant little dishonest butt in the front row. It was my show, I paid for the room, I lined up the speakers and it was nothing to do with MUFON. I didn't feel like I wanted Klass around. No reason. I just didn't want him in the room so I kicked him out.

The presentation went well to the extreme embarrassment and chagrin of MUFON, it Board of Directors, Walt Andrus and many of its members who were not ready to accept that there might be "Aliens" inside those flying saucers.

This infamous convention has been covered at length over the years by Ecker in his magazine (California UFO or whatever its called today) by Bill Cooper, (I believe he wrote about it in "Behold a Pale Horse" and Bill English who has disappeared.

As the convention was ending I was running around settling up with Alladin and doing all those things that a Convention Host does at the end of a Convention and happened to run into Phil.

I asked him how he liked his badge and it turned out that he hadn't noticed the MJ-12 until I had mentioned it.

I was replaced as Nevada State Director I think by John Grace I can't remember exactly. I never renewed my membership with MUFON.

Regardless of what MUFON thought or thinks today, I am pretty sure that there are aliens in those flying saucers. I mean the ones that come from Outer Space. Not the Navy ones. The Navy ones have the anal probing SEALS in them.

Originally posted by Palasheea
RedEyes, you don't want a clarification, you just want to squash him -- this is very apparent. Who gives a hoot about some ridiculous minor discrepancies that you are seeing in his telling of what happened one day 19 yrs ago!! Give me a break. This kind of fussiness is so annoying and irritating -- I just hope you're having fun but I'm telling you right now that you've ruined my day by sucking all of the joy out of it by posting here. I enjoyed Lear's story about him and Klass and I'm sure many others here did too.

Ohh stop SNIP! It is perfectly acceptable for RedEye to ask for clarification. He has been polite and patient which is more than can be said for you.

John Leer may be a genius in his field (I wouldn't know) but he is just another person and he isn;t going to be inviting you round for games of Twister or sending you Kitty memes by email, so lighten up a bit and let Mr Leer be his own guardian.


edited to remove insulting, unnecessary comment.



[edit on 9-8-2007 by Crakeur]

Originally posted by interestedalways

You know I never actually read where either John Lear of Sleeper actually said they weren't the same guy. Sleeper offered a different picture on a book, but they more or less danced around the issue with an assumption that of course they weren't.

Here was John's answer

As far as me being Sleeper, he is not buying into the BSMOTM (Big Soul Machine On The Moon). Does that mean I am not buying into my own theory?

And here is Sleepers

Yeah, well Milton thinks John is better looking too---
Anyway here is me back ten years ago. That’s all I have and I’m too lazy to take a current picture.

OK. Even though I am technically an 'interested party' as an official Conspiracy Master here at ATS I am officially declaring this a Bonafide Conspiracy.

Originally posted by Palasheea
RedEyes, I hope for your sake Lear comes back here to answer some of your questions because I just don't know how much more of this awful burden of martyrdom that you're having to endure at this moment I can take.

Give it a rest! The feller wants clarification and he is quite entitled! He isn't picking on Mr Leer. If someone, anyone, comes here and contradicts their story then it is the duty of the members to pull them up on it and get a clear answer.

RedEye isn't accusing John of anything at all, I am sure he is hoping for a satisfactory answer to clear it up.


Don't worry, as soon as he has his answer you can get back to telling the "celebrities" of the board how handsome they are and generally creeping.

[edit on 9-8-2007 by triplesod]