How can you honestly believe in God.

reply to post by HIFIGUY

Utterance of Sin he said..In other words..ERROR.

So,all the prophets are potential liars then? It wasn't God speaking through them? Is there any way of knowing which word's were said in error?

I think you've picked that quote and linked it to Isaiah because you can't deal with the fact that God created Evil!

2 Kings.6:33 .And while he yet talked with them, behold, the messenger came down unto him: and he said, Behold, this evil is of the LORD..

Amos.3:6 .Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?

Don't forget as well,Christianity is based on Judaism and Isaiah.45:7 reads like this,

I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am HaShem, that doeth all these things.

They have no personification of evil,but they know God created it.
if God didn't create it,then it can not exist!


As for the Holy Trinity,that another highly flawed and contradicitve idea.
Jesus says we are all equal,yet God gave man control over woman.
Jesus says love thy neighbour,turn the other cheek and God says to kill all those who don't believe. (2 corinthians.15:13)
God says we should fear him,Jesus says we should love God not fear him.
I could go on for days,lol.

Key Points her are that Evil as an entity is a Myth.The Devil as an entity is a Myth.Men have made what man has to overcome

So how did Adam & Eve fall from grace?



[edit on 31-10-2007 by jakyll]

reply to post by HIFIGUY



And then there is that obstacle,incest.God/Jesus/the Holy Spirit knocked up his own mother!

[edit on 1-11-2007 by jakyll]

Originally posted by jakyll
So,all the prophets are potential liars then? It wasn't God speaking through them? Is there any way of knowing which word's were said in error?

Jakyll, I am not your enemy. We are on the persuit of Truth here, not opinion. I am a man, like you. I do not wish to deceive you or any other. It is my wish to walk as friends, understanding and practicing, that which was intended in the grand design.

Knowing exactly what God said, and what was actually meant, versus what was transcribed in an otherwise imperfect language is a dificult task.

I can tell you from personal experience in the few Transcribing events in my life that the words inspired were written and rewritten. Here is my example of the Word delivered through me. The opening of a Book in which I was asked to write. Yes..not by man. But by Jesus Christ himself.

The voice was not one in which I could hear. It was not one which was spoken. So strange it was, yet I understood. Visualize that you understand everything you are reading here, but your not reading it, and no one is talking to you, but in a single thought everything you just read was communicated. That Book is this...


The Book of the Word, as Inspired by the Lord Jesus Christ

In the beginning, there was the Word.
The Word in the beginning was Time.
Time began and the Word was begun.

These words superceded:

In the Beginning there was a Word.
A Word in the beginning was Time.
Time began and the Word was begun.

I know what it means to write from Transcription. This is why I as a man believe that the Aquarian Gospel of Christ may in fact be considerably more accurate in terms of Christs travels and teachings then any document on the planet at present. Read it, with an open heart.

All of us have seen the example, where a story starts at one person in a room, and after 30 people, it changes greatly.

Because Hebrew can have one term, and rely on the body of the text to determine the context of the term, it leaves a lot on the table in terms of interpretation.

Yes, It is true. Everthing that is, came from the Creator. Good and Evil. But the Good was made, and bad things were done with the Good.

Evil is not an entity. It is a mistake in being with a label in practice. Sin. An error in behavior and an undersirable action that produces disharmony in mankind.

Like Christianity and the inquisition

Like Christianity and Mother Theresa

Im looking to soften the doors of hearts and it grieves me.
Mankind is learning trial and error, everything that is permissable.

But in this process, that indeed Paul was Correct.
Not everything is benificial: Sin

Do not unto another man, that which you would not do unto yourself first.

Some Laws are not up for a question, or up for debate.

They are the Truth

Peace


[edit on 1-11-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY

Jakyll, I am not your enemy. We are on the persuit of Truth here, not opinion. I am a man, like you. I do not wish to deceive you or any other. It is my wish to walk as friends, understanding and practicing, that which was intended in the grand design.

I was just asking for your opinion,sorry if i seemed aggressive.
And yes,we are seekers of Truth,except i'm a woman and we all know that a man's logic is radically different from that of a womans! LOL.


You have found comfort in the Christian faith,that's whats good for you.But i know i won't find the same because i can not believe in something that condemns homosexuality,enslaves women to men,preaches blind faith,allows suffering and lies that we have free will,when we don't! (God,is kinda like Santa,he knows who will be naughty and who will be nice,hence no free will,our paths are already ordained by God!)Along with the whole Adam & Eve thing,the incest,the fact that life is older by millions of years than the Bible says it is and many other historical reasons why.




[edit on 1-11-2007 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll


Yes. Birds and animals do those things. Its called competition which ALL organisms do and must do to keep from going extinct. There is no malice in what they do, those are not wanton acts of destruction.

And Christians have always hinted that somehow evil is a unfortunate by product of free will. Yet you maintain that animals are lower creatures than us. Not even conscience things that were gifted to man to do with as he please.
You do the math.

[edit on 1-11-2007 by WraothAscendant]

reply to post by WraothAscendant

Yet you maintain that animals are lower creatures than us.

When did i say that??
I don't believe that at all,the vast majority of animals are highly intelligent.

And are you telling me that a Magpie eating a baby bird alive is not an act of malice!?! The Magpie does not need to act like that.Where i live the different birds have their own nesting areas (they always have) so such behavior is not needed,there don't have to fight for space,or even food!

And Christians have always hinted that somehow evil is a unfortunate by product of free will.

Look hard enough at the Christian concept of free will and you'll see that there is in fact nothing free about it!

[edit on 1-11-2007 by jakyll]

When did i say that??
I don't believe that at all,the vast majority of animals are highly intelligent.

And are you telling me that a Magpie eating a baby bird alive is not an act of malice!?! The Magpie does not need to act like that.Where i live the different birds have their own nesting areas (they always have) so such behavior is not needed,there don't have to fight for space,or even food!

a) Yeh. I was guilty of generalising. I apologise. But it is a large part of peoples belief-set and is a natural extension of "this world was made for and given to us to do with as we please, including all the animals".

b) And yes there is no malice. You call it malice because how could they eat a poor defenseless baby. Am I right? Which is an extension of controls nature placed in humanity to keep the human animal wanting to rear and protect its young, I might add. But there is bleed through to all babies. Not all animals differentiate by age.

c) And there is competition for both space and food. Where you come up with a basis for saying there isnt is beyond me.

Look hard enough at the Christian concept of free will and you'll see that there is in fact nothing free about it!

Ah yes. I am aware of the blaring contridictions in the whole system.
We are all just evil fallen things (that cant help BUT be evil, nasty, pitiful things) that must apologise for our very existance (even though we aren't given a choice whether or not to exist) and listen to those claiming to be "send by gawd" so they can save us from the sin of existing with rules conviently set up to for complete control of an individual with a large amount of convient benefits (money, power, etc) for those claiming to be "sent by gawd". I was raised with the BS, so yea, I know it all too well.



[edit on 1-11-2007 by WraothAscendant]

reply to post by WraothAscendant

We are all just evil fallen things (that cant help BUT be evil, nasty, pitiful things) that must apologise for our very existance (even though we aren't given a choice whether or not to exist) and listen to those claiming to be "send by gawd" so they can save us from the sin of existing with rules conviently set up to for complete control of an individual with a large amount of convient benefits (money, power, etc) for those claiming to be "sent by gawd". I was raised with the BS, so yea, I know it all too well.

I was raised a Catholic and now i thank God i'm an atheist! LOL.

The problem of the different Christian faiths is that it is based on a religion they don't fully understand,which uses a language they know even less about.
So many mistakes have been made in translations that a verse can take on a whole new meaning!!

Gonna put this out there, but where do Adam and Eve come into all of this? And if GOD created all of us, then who created him, and who created the guy who created him etc etc.. Like Hexidecimal said on the first page, its a never ending circle. We end up back where we started, with having not even the slightest bit more information found out than when we started. Why do we even bother trying to figure out why GOD doesn't exist? If GOD does exist, why doesn't he show in person, has he always been just THERE, not as a solid object or anything of that matter?

GOD is just another way for the church to con us into doing such stupid things. Why bother wasting your time worshiping some guy that no one has ever seen with there own eyes. I think its completely pointless.

No offence to any Christians out there, this is just IMO.

LOL I posted on 9-11

[edit on 10-11-2007 by Nyte Angel]

reply to post by jakyll



Yep like the whole "Thou shalt not suffer a witch (mistranslated actually said poisoner) live."

But. The issue I have with alot of atheists and I don't mean this as an attack please believe me, but I am just speaking my mind on this and imput is acceptable as long as it isn't of the "how dare you disagree with me you heathen dog type".

That being said here goes. It seems to me alot of rather forward atheists all have an axe to grind with Christianity (considering it does at times seem to canonize wanton ignorance and power mongering) and they go onto to say that because "Because I see Christianity as a sick joke." there is NO chance of (well I'll use this word) spiritual anything.

Which to me seems a heavy case of "throwing the baby out with the bath water". Religions are after all manmade things and I don't really see any glaring proof to say one way or the other (all the arguments are either positive (pro) or negative (con)).

And eveyone more or less picks a road they are predisposed to believe anyway and seek to reinforce it regardless of what perfectly plausable argument there is against their stance. How is THAT seeking the truth?

I rambled I think. But I do have a problem with getting the words to my biological output devices. =)

reply to post by WraothAscendant


I agree,religions are man made.
And i've always found it strange that,as time has moved on,religions have been used more and more as a weapon of power and control.(usually involving faiths that have one god only)
Its also moved from feminine to masculine & feminine to masculine.The difference being that during the feminine period (mother earth worship,etc) the masculine was still very much an important aspect and was not opressed,which is what has happened to the female in the world of the male God.
Maybe thats why things are screwed up,there is no equality and balance between the female and male.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by HIFIGUY

 

Utterance of Sin he said..In other words..ERROR.

So,all the prophets are potential liars then? It wasn't God speaking through them? Is there any way of knowing which word's were said in error?

I think you've picked that quote and linked it to Isaiah because you can't deal with the fact that God created Evil!

Well..actually, if one creates light, and the light is removed...does he also create darkness?

Utterance of Sin means error in speech...and yes..we all make errors. Not intentionally..

So to correct my statement, if one introduces light to a dark area, there is light. But if there is light in that area, can you introduce darkness?

When you call the Prophets liars..that is a bit bold, but rather they made an error in their presentation. Simply said.

As far as God creating Evil....Everything God created was Good, but not everything that was created, has been used for good.

Iron can be used for a plow or a skillet, and that same Iron can be cast into a sword or spear....

Jesus Himself describes the origin of Evil clearly and simply in this passage...

, Jesus Christ in in response to the creation of Evil...

If God, the One, made not this evil, then, where is the God who did? 11 And Jesus said, Whatever God, the One, has made is good, and like the great first Cause, the seven Spirits all are good, and everthing that comes from their creative hands is good. 12 Now, all created things have colours, tones and forms their own; but certain tones, though good and pure themselves, when mixed, produce inharmonies, discordant tones. 13 And certain things, though good and pure, when mixed, produce discordant things, yea, poisonous things, that men call evil things. 14 So evil is the inharmonious blending of the colours, tones, or forms of good. 15 Now, man is not all-wise, and yet has will his own. He has the power, and he uses it, to mix God's good things in a multitude of ways, and every day he makes discordant sounds, and evil things.

The Evil that is, comes from the minds of men who used what was good for what was not good. Simple as that.

The Almighty God delivers the paint, we can paint the picture. Harmony and happiness...Unity and Equality...

Or you create a picture of war, greed, oppression and selfishness.

One mind sees what is good for himself. Another mind sees what is good for all. A way of Good for the ages...

It was never about control..it was about community for all mankind.

Peace and happiness for all mankind

Its written on every persons heart...

all they have to do is listen


[edit on 9-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Well..actually, if one creates light, and the light is removed...does he also create darkness?

If your saying the same person/whatever doesn't create both then isn't there a flaw in this statement?

How do you know it's darkness that replaces void of light? It could be anything, but the darkness has to be created and placed in the system...

It's like saying someone created a program which has 'A'. If this 'A' is removed, it becomes 'A-less' and doesn't become B unless it is programmed that way

Edit: Also you can't have light without darkness...

[edit on 9-12-2007 by AncientVoid]

reply to post by AncientVoid


All the was created was Good.

Not everything that was Good, was used for Good.

One man offers a thirsty man a cold glass of water. It quenches his thirst.
Another man offers a thirsty man a cold glass of water. In drinking it, he chokes on the water and dies.

Surely some would see the water as Evil, and yet others would say the man that gave it to him was evil. Yet in both cases neither are evil.

It is in recognizing that which is Good for all. Which honors the command of Love one another, that we create the path of man for the Millenium.
Not just for that Millenium, but for the future of Mankind.

Ways that are wrought in the heart, forged by Love. Ways that are best. Ways that are nurturing. Ways that are caring. Ways that are Kind.

This is Good.

And God is Good.

I once had an experience...in which I spoke to God...
I said aloud..." God, its not cool to talk about God now days "...his response..in a way that wasnt audible but totally understandable..he said..

" Dont call me God; Call me Good "

Peace


[edit on 9-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]

reply to post by HIFIGUY


How can you have good without evil?

You can't create good without creating a opposite to compare it to.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
One man offers a thirsty man a cold glass of water. It quenches his thirst.
Another man offers a thirsty man a cold glass of water. In drinking it, he chokes on the water and dies.

Surely some would see the water as Evil, and yet others would say the man that gave it to him was evil. Yet in both cases neither are evil.

lol...

[edit on 9-12-2007 by AncientVoid]

Originally posted by AncientVoid
How can you have good without evil?

God

reply to post by HIFIGUY


Why do i bother? =.=....:bash:

There can be light without shadow. There isn't because light comes from points, when the point becomes all that is though, there is light by all angle, no shadow. Same thing with good and evil.

reply to post by depth om


It still doesn't mean that shadow doesn't exist, because as we can see now, SHADOWS.
If 'god' created all 'good' then how did evil come about since all things were good and define this 'good'.

I don't expect a real answer I'm just looking at the logic behind it.

A thing is still a thing when there is no rigid opposite to compare it to. Abstract art pieces are their own entity, they exist with our minds applying label and form, same thing with everything that enters our brain. Things exist, we explain to the best of our ability.