How can you honestly believe in God.

all I have left to say on this thread is this:

to be willingly ignorant and continue to believe that we are the product of chance it to deny that everything that we are as humans. Love, happiness, fear,...emotions, the abstracts of the human mind. we set all of those aside once we put God out of the picture. if we are the product of chance over millions of years, our lives really arent important and their is no reason to believe that I have to conform to the law of any person to make others happy or give them comfort.

If God didnt create the universe, who did? if God didnt make this earth, who did? how did all of this energy organize itself to do something so intelligent? this by the way goes against the 2nd law of thermodynamics, the universe is a closed system by definition, and all energy, unless there is an designed mechanism to utilize, is destructive to all things.

I suggest you read through this article again and ask yourself one more time if this even sounds feasible. www.big-bang-theory.com...

"According to the many experts however, space didn't exist prior to the Big Bang. Back in the late '60s and early '70s, when men first walked upon the moon, "three British astrophysicists, Steven Hawking, George Ellis, and Roger Penrose turned their attention to the Theory of Relativity and its implications regarding our notions of time. In 1968 and 1970, they published papers in which they extended Einstein's Theory of General Relativity to include measurements of time and space.1, 2 According to their calculations, time and space had a finite beginning that corresponded to the origin of matter and energy."3 The singularity didn't appear in space; rather, space began inside of the singularity. Prior to the singularity, nothing existed, not space, time, matter, or energy - nothing. So where and in what did the singularity appear if not in space? We don't know. We don't know where it came from, why it's here, or even where it is. All we really know is that we are inside of it and at one time it didn't exist and neither did we."

it says that nothing was there, and then all of the sudden nothing expanded and made everything.... this is according to many experts.
this theory is not feasible, and it cannot happen. according to this article, matter and energy did not exist at first and then later came into existence.
This goes against the first law of thermodynamics. This theory is flawed from the beginning. its not scientific, its religious. their is no evidence to support the idea that matter and energy can appear out of nowhere, out of nothing.

You keep asking me to prove to you my God.
I tell you this, he has already proven himself to you in many ways... you are just too stubborn to accept the fact that he does exist. and you are without excuse when the day of judgment comes.

Did deep inside yourself and truly search for and answers, some you will understand and some you will not, but that doesnt make the entire thing a false belief.

How can you seriously believe in God?...

How can you not?

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I believe in god because its the most logical thing, I believe in god, because I know without god I wouldnt be here right now. How can someone NOT believe in god.

I hate it when people say that people who believe in god are stupid, it makes me laugh, I mean just look around you, everything has been created? with VERY intelligent designs. Its common sense.

The proof is around us, proof is everywhere. People arent looking at it right.
There is a reason you can see, and hear, and think, theres a reason you feel such powerful love for your children, or family, or girlfriend. Theres a reason you can run, walk, dance. Its all from intelligent design.





[edit on 31-7-2007 by _Phoenix_]

it is not an intellignet design, but merely a coincidence, do the math billions maybe trillions of potential life supporting areas, and we've foudn waht only one other then earht that might support life, believing in god is completly ilogical, and the reason that it seems intellignet and everythign is useful is because everything either adpated to be useful, or died. thats the way the world works make yourself unigue and required you stay, if you dont then you have no purpose nad you end up slowing down the human race. Do the math only one in maybe a billion planets would have the faintest chance of sustaining life, and we have more then one billion in our universe.

really? because we sure as hell know a lot about it

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Really,, compared to what? the infinite universe we no nothing about ?
You have any idea how foolish you sounds any? Buehler? Buehler?

Compared to the church...
You guys assume you know so much, yet it's all based on beliefs...

Originally posted by Methuselah
all I have left to say on this thread is this:

to be willingly ignorant and continue to believe that we are the product of chance it to deny that everything that we are as humans. Love, happiness, fear,...emotions, the abstracts of the human mind. we set all of those aside once we put God out of the picture. if we are the product of chance over millions of years, our lives really arent important and their is no reason to believe that I have to conform to the law of any person to make others happy or give them comfort.

Of course our lives aren't important in the whole scheme of things. If we all died tomorrow, you think the universe would just stop because of our deaths? We are no more important or less important than the animals around us. No one is forcing you to make others happy. It is this ignorant view that you share, that has screwed up our understanding of science. Example, geocentric model of the universe. Just because you think we as humans are the product of god and we are so special.

Originally posted by Methuselah

but if god is omnipotent then he knew that lucifer would fall.he knew eve would be corrupted etc etc.and we suffer because of the things god knew!! which makes me ask,if he knew,why let it happen.to angels as well as mankind? if he knew but did nothing is that because he didn't have the power to stop it? surely he could of stopped satan getting into the garden of eden!!

thats called Gods love and thats how he keeps it true, by not controlling everything that goes on in everyones life. Im sure that no matter when and no matter how he created everything, he knew it would fall. there is no getting around it. I dont fully understand why God didnt just destroy the devil in the first place but I believe that when we chose to love him instead of the things of this world, I think it brings him more joy and glory.

creating us without free will would be like cheating, love and fellowship wouldnt be real, it would be forced and untrue. and actually you dont even need the devil to know what evil is... they had the tree that would tell them that.

So your saying that 'god' himself can't make something without it falling? And you say there is no way of getting around it? Some of the things you say are stupid. Of course if god exist he could find a way around it. Did you just make that up on the spot to defend yourself or you know for a fact?

i would liek to say that the plasebo effect is proabably the leading cause of all faith, someone says god is goign to help me, BOOM! somethign good happens and you happen to notice it and say "god did taht for me " whne it proably would have happend anyway.

Originally posted by lenisey
reply to post by Conspiriology

 

wow!
thank-you!!
that really is the blunt cold hard truth
I was so relieved to read what my heart really wanted to scream
out as i was writing my "nice"
answers
.....Amen !


renee

I JUST GOT HOME AND READ YOUR QUESTION , SO JUST TO SHOW YOU THAT MAYBE I AM NOT AS IGNORANT AS YOU HAVE POINTED OUT,
I HAPPEN TO BE A FAN OF ALBERT EINSTEIN
AND I READ ALOT A-LOT!
HE WAS NOT AT ALL AN ATHIEST
IN FACT QUITE THE OPPOSITE
HE BELIEVED GOD HAD EVERYTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE
HERE IS A QUOTE OF HIS WITH HIS SIGNATURE ON THE BOTTOIM AND HERE IS THE LINK TO GO TO THE ARCHIVES WHERE I GOT IT FROM

www.aip.org...

TextThe most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science. Whoever does not know it and can no longer wonder, no longer marvel, is as good as dead, and his eyes are dimmed. It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion. A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds: it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity. In this sense, and only this sense, I am a deeply religious man... I am satisfied with the mystery of life's eternity and with a knowledge, a sense, of the marvelous structure of existence -- as well as the humble attempt to understand even a tiny portion of the Reason that manifests itself in nature."

Text"Quantum mechanics is certainly imposing. But an inner voice tells me that it is not yet the real thing. The theory says a lot, but does not really bring us closer to the secret of the 'Old One.' I, at any rate, am convinced that He is not playing at dice."

"Of all the communities available to us there is not one I would want to devote myself to, except for the society of the true searchers, which has very few living members at any time."

RENEE

reply to post by MajorMalfunction


just a note :
i have just posted a link and some quotes of einstein and i got them from his personal archives which are kept at the hebrew museum in jerusalam

that sure isn't a place an athiest would have had all his works and journals
sent for safe keeping and exhibiting

thats all i wanted to point out ....
renee

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
I believe in god because its the most logical thing, I believe in god, because I know without god I wouldnt be here right now. How can someone NOT believe in god.

I hate it when people say that people who believe in god are stupid, it makes me laugh, I mean just look around you, everything has been created? with VERY intelligent designs. Its common sense.

The proof is around us, proof is everywhere. People arent looking at it right.
There is a reason you can see, and hear, and think, theres a reason you feel such powerful love for your children, or family, or girlfriend. Theres a reason you can run, walk, dance. Its all from intelligent design.

[edit on 31-7-2007 by _Phoenix_]

I concur Phoenix and I think you know why they don't believe. Intelligence has got nothing to do the atheists "in your face" denial of his existence no more then it has anything to do with your belief.



No so-called atheist can have epistemic certainly about *anything* PERIOD. Not the universe, man, the spark of life or the postulate that matter is somehow on autopilot navigating itself from the spark of the beginning of the universe to what we have today?
Sorry,, that Dog won't hunt.


If I listened to every new idea put forward by someone who has already established thus far an unbroken track record of blithering non-sense, I’d be wasting my time 99.999% of the time.

This explains why Jesus teaches us to "come as a child" without preconceived ideas or our prideful finite and limited intelligence.

The Bible isn't for everyone and it's central message, that being salvation, isn't for everyone either. The Bible is clear on the premise of "election" that one is called and it is something we do of our own free will on our own volition when the invitation is given.

What a deity denyer thinks of me for answering the call,, is none of my business. I don't concern myself with their choosing science over he who brought science to us in the first place.

Sure I think it's foolish but I understand that intellect has nothing to do with it. I couldn't call atheists stupid for their choice,, just unwise. They may have another opinion of my choice but as I said,, if anyone think's believing in GOD is a dumb idea, then I'm just glad I'm dumb enough to believe it. Although,, I prefer to think of it as humble enough to believe it.

I seek Gods approval, Gods councel and his will (although mine gets in the way)

I have already been where they are, going through life by the seat of your pants in a lifetime that goes by in the wink of an eye. Living life on your own terms is a life where death is the only end result to a self indulgent, aimless, insignificant, meaningless, existence.

It doesn't matter who you were in life after it's over, you may as well not have lived at all. Jesus new this when he said "Let the dead bury the dead."

Being secure in ones atheism isn't security in any sense of the word.

I would think if you could be secure in your atheism, why not be secure in your agnosticism. NOOOO the atheist won't settle for anything less then his absolutism that no possibilty of GOD what so ever exists. It is terminally self righteous arrogance personified. Then they say the Believer is righteous LOL sheesh.

I suggest is anger directed at a GOD he claims doesn't exist. That anger carries over to anyone that believes.

At life's end, to hang on to such animosity towards GOD removes the only thing you might have had left where, even if they are correct,,

in the final analysis, that belief system offers only death where the believers offers Hope.


Either way,

THEY LOSE.



when hope is the only chance you got

one would be an idiot to have ever

turned it down





[edit on 27-8-2007 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by Conspiriology
I have already been where they are, going through life by the seat of your pants in a lifetime that goes by in the wink of an eye. Living life on your own terms is a life where death is the only end result to a self indulgent, aimless, insignificant, meaningless, existence.

My life has meaning, it has aim, it has significance.

If you have an emotional need for an invisible magic-dude who watches your every move, reads your mind, and offers rewards and punishments for being nice or nasty - like santa - to give your life meaning, then cool. Not everyone does though.

I would think if you could be secure in your atheism, why not be secure in your agnosticism. NOOOO the atheist won't settle for anything less then his absolutism that no possibilty of GOD what so ever exists.
At life's end, to hang on to such animosity towards GOD removes the only thing you might have had left where, even if they are correct,,

That is just your strawman. Very few atheists I know take the 100% position that god does not exist. Even Richard Dawkins doesn't.

To say that 100% god does or does not exist would be IMO, slightly crazy. It takes a degree of certainty that none of us can attain.

in the final analysis, that belief system offers only death where the believers offers Hope.

Your whole analysis shows how your belief is couched in emotional needs.

You can't even face being wrong on claims you made earlier. A bit of hubris, no?

Anyway, I'm still working through the nonsensical rant from earlier:

Plant life and Photosynthesis is a complicated process indeed and integral for the life of not just it's own survival but the survival of many other life forms. How could this complex process have "evolved" when the plant itself can not survive unless it had the capabilities from the start.

You seem to think that plants originally evolved photosynthesis. It has actually been around for about 3 billion years. It evolved in very ancient bacteria. If you want to know how plants acquired photosynthesis, put the bible down and read a science book.

Either that, or stick to stuff you know, otherwise you might begin to look a tad ignorant. I'm sure you have a special insight into the psychotic ramblings of revelations, but I don't think science is your forte.

[edit on 27-8-2007 by melatonin]

Originally posted by lenisey
reply to post by MajorMalfunction

 

just a note :
i have just posted a link and some quotes of einstein and i got them from his personal archives which are kept at the hebrew museum in jerusalam

that sure isn't a place an athiest would have had all his works and journals
sent for safe keeping and exhibiting

thats all i wanted to point out ....
renee

Hi Lenisey, nice to know other dumb believers are among the mix here.

Is that guy still pouting bunk about Einstien being an atheist?

Does it not occur to this deity denyer that E=mc2 was a theory Einstien authored but GOD makes patent in all creation.

I have studied Einstien for many years from his exhile in Germany to his attempts at warning the US the precarious ramifications of using Atomic Bombs, to his speech about possibility, time travel etc.

For a person to say that there is NO WAY POSSIBLE GOD EXISTS is simply a human limitation.

It is not a limitation of GOD let alone the believer where all things are Possible.

His assertion that Christians try to use that in an attempt to add or borrow his intellect as an endorsement for the existence of GOD is so funny it's cute.

As you know Einstiens agnosticism is no victory at all and he is lost no less then the atheist. Knowing GOD exists is obvious as Einstein says in his autobiography. He saw the infinite patterns of design that are inescapably apparent as intelligent and created that way with a purpose for a purpose. If Cosmic Accidents could briong about life then hey lets take our dead and put them in cars instead of the crash dummy's .

Ya never know they might just become LIVE again!

You see the sarcasm in that? Well consider the atheists point, words to that same effect.

If the Atheists wants to limit themselves to an absolute so damning in the end let me share a postulate they will have as they exhale there last breath.

While we die with inner peace and peace of mind having faith in GOD

The Atheist by his own reputation to live up to
'
Dies wondering

and afraid.

TextTextTextTextText Purple....isn't that just so sad

i actually got goosebumps
...here's the really sad part...
we only have these discussions to try to help them save their souls

while they have them to try to make us realize that we are
"insecure, childish and naive" to believe in God and heaven ,etc

But, i know that i have saved many souls,
and taught people alot of beautiful things that they never knew
concerning God and the bible
I find that many churches have people afraid
when it is the complete opposite feeling that reading and studying the
bible on one's own or with a small group
anyway...you really covered all that could be said here
( quite well, i am impressed,)
i think i am done here
see you somewhere else here at ats
renee

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by Conspiriology
I have already been where they are, going through life by the seat of your pants in a lifetime that goes by in the wink of an eye. Living life on your own terms is a life where death is the only end result to a self indulgent, aimless, insignificant, meaningless, existence.

My life has meaning, it has aim, it has significance.

NO it doesn't. NONE OF OUR LIVES MEAN A DAMN THING IF ALL YOU ARE GOING TO DO IS LIVE AND DIE. AFTER YOU AND I ARE DEAD NOTHING ABOUT YOU MATTERS TO EITHER ONE OF US. Now I would like to believe that there is more at stake here and that would be your immortal soul. For me to believe the teachings of christ then I have to assume what he says is true. That whether I like you or not, divine providence suggests that this meeting on the internet was to at least inform you that the GOD you don't believe exists whether you are a 70% atheist or 50% lol LOVES YOU. If God were to control all the bad things that we as humans exercise as our free moral agency he would never know if we love him back.

I haven't gone into the gospel if you have noticed and unless you believe the Bible as your stable Datum (standard of truth) we have nothing to talk about it is non negotiable. So I would attempt this at a conceptual level.

It is more then obvious to me that discussing more on this topic is will only degrade. You have no chance in hell (no pun) of putting a dent not a scratch in either my belief in GOD or My faith. So this is my way of doing you the favor and saving you time. I have already found what I am looking for and you aren't looking. are you ?

So if I may be one of the many links in the chain of christians GOD has called as the elect to testify his existence then it is the least I can do.

You win ,,

I admit,, GOD doesn't exist for you, that you don't know him

too bad

Originally posted by Conspiriology
If the Atheists wants to limit themselves to an absolute so damning in the end let me share a postulate they will have as they exhale there last breath.

While we die with inner peace and peace of mind having faith in GOD

The Atheist by his own reputation to live up to
'
Dies wondering

and afraid.

This deserves special attention.

Now, I'm quite sure you have never, ever, ever seen or been around an atheist when they die. So you have absolutely no reason to think they die afraid.

I'm sure some do, I'm sure others don't. I know a couple of people who have died, they were both atheists, and both died with dignity.

So, using my well-established cycle-logical knowledge. I think we have an example of projection.

What you are trying to say is that you are afraid of death, but you think that believing in immortality can get you over this fear. And that, therefore, those who don't have your psychological crutch, will die afraid.

That's fine. Each to their own. But don't project your fears onto others.

NO it doesn't. NONE OF OUR LIVES MEAN A DAMN THING IF ALL YOU ARE GOING TO DO IS LIVE AND DIE. AFTER YOU AND I ARE DEAD NOTHING ABOUT YOU MATTERS TO EITHER ONE OF US.

Keep the hubris under control. You have little insight into my life.

I give my life meaning. I give my life aim.

At the moment, one aim of my life is to eat my sandwich and have my coffee. I also have bigger and better aims, but those can wait for half an hour.

[edit on 27-8-2007 by melatonin]

Of course our lives aren't important in the whole scheme of things. If we all died tomorrow, you think the universe would just stop because of our deaths? We are no more important or less important than the animals around us. No one is forcing you to make others happy. It is this ignorant view that you share, that has screwed up our understanding of science. Example, geocentric model of the universe. Just because you think we as humans are the product of god and we are so special.

no more important than the animals? so if I wanted to hunt you down and kill you so I can eat, that should be ok right?
If there is no god, then there is no way of telling right from wrong.
and no, my view does not screw up any understanding of science. theories based off of flawed assumptions is what screws up science.
I already admitted that my theory is religious, now why cant you just admit yours is?

So your saying that 'god' himself can't make something without it falling? And you say there is no way of getting around it? Some of the things you say are stupid. Of course if god exist he could find a way around it. Did you just make that up on the spot to defend yourself or you know for a fact?

if God gives us freewill, the power to chose him over ourselves, than yes, no matter what we are going to fall away in one form or another.
I know that for a fact, in order to God to receive true love from us, he had to give us the freewill to chose him over ourselves. people dont understand this simply because it doesnt make sense at first. but if you take a few minutes to actually think about it, you will come to realize that its the only way for God himself to experience true love and fellowship by having faith and showing love out of choice and not because we are forced.

You seem to think that plants originally evolved photosynthesis. It has actually been around for about 3 billion years. It evolved in very ancient bacteria. If you want to know how plants acquired photosynthesis, put the bible down and read a science book.

its good to know that people can determine when and wherein certain things evolved. you dont know and no one knows when things happened. this is all based on assumption and false dates.
I cannot believe people have you guys believing in this. and thats exactly what it is, believing.

Originally posted by Methuselah
If God didnt create the universe, who did?

nobody made it, it just formed.

if God didnt make this earth, who did?

nobody made it, it just formed.

how did all of this energy organize itself to do something so intelligent?

natural processees.

this by the way goes against the 2nd law of thermodynamics, the universe is a closed system by definition, and all energy, unless there is an designed mechanism to utilize, is destructive to all things.

...no, see, you're confusing what it means to be at equilibrium. things are shifting towards equilibrium as we speak

.
I suggest you read through this article again and ask yourself one more time if this even sounds feasible. www.big-bang-theory.com...

how about you read up on something that has real information about the big bang instead of a religious apologetics site that distorts the information?

it says that nothing was there, and then all of the sudden nothing expanded and made everything.... this is according to many experts.

no, no no no no no
i've already destroyed your arguements on the big bang, these EXACT SAME ONES. i wouldn't be surprised if you copy pasted this all from that other thread.

space doesn't have to exist for matter and energy to exist. matter and energy always existed, according to modern physics. matter and energy expanding is what formed space, space doesn't precede matter and energy.

Originally posted by Conspiriology
I suggest you have a self concept one molecule away from being an eggshell. if you care to show me the nasty mean names and all you are alleging please do and Ill show you how fast I can put a whole shoe store in your mouth.

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Now in the final analysis tempertantruminyoursoul,,

do i get a prize? does the shoe go into your mouth now?

lenisey, einstein uses words like "god" as a metaphor in much the same way one of his biggest fans, carl sagan, did.

here's a big ol quote from einstein in a letter that he wrote to an atheist.

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.

emphasis added.

he had no theological dispositions, no disposition to the supernatural, all of his admiration was for the natural. by his very own words he shows us he is an atheist.

Originally posted by Conspiriology
Why ?? Science didn't do it right the first time?

no, when i'm doing it it's still science.

Ill toss ya one bone, I agree,,your science is crap.

then stop using computers, medical science, stop eating all foods that contain products of science, etc.
science isn't crap.

Really,, compared to what? the infinite universe we no nothing about ?
You have any idea how foolish you sounds any? Buehler? Buehler?

infinite? try massive, but not infinite. 13.7 billion light years and growing...
know nothing about? we know a lot about it...

Yeah,, thats the law of life. Tell me poindexter,, those maggots you are talking about,,they come from a dead thing or a living fly laying eggs in a dead thing? LIFE CAN ONLY COME FROM LIFE. to think that it can come from dead meat break that law. So your point is moot .

no, the point is that chemical abiogenesis means life forming. my point isn't moot and you resorted to name calling.
those maggots clearly didn't come from the meat, that's not what i'm talking about. i'm talking about protein structures forming cells. you're clearly fudging the issues to cover up your lack of understanding.

Try reading my post with a little more concentration. I don't mean to sound condescending but so far you have nothing substantive and for some reason an aire of hostility.

there isn't really anything to concentrate on, it's just a bunch of ignorant misconceptions about evolution.
i'm not the one resorting to name calling...

I know all the rest of that "stuff" you googled and posted only proves my point. That would be the point that apparently went right over your head as you are too busy disecting my post looking for diffrences in symantics that you claim are errors in the scientific vernacular. Then you post the meaning of my original post as if they are diametrically opposing ideologies. Another words,,

the "stuff" i googled and posted? i didn't actually google anything.
i'm not looking at symantics, you're missing my points. hell, you're ignoring and not responding to half of them either.

READ MY POST,, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I SAID.
Instead of looking for angles to attack my post and missing the central message entirely.

i know what you said about flies etc, but you miss my point on CHEMICAL abiogenesis. abiogenesis doesn't work in the previous superstitious way it worked, but chemical abiogenesis does. they're two different theories.

Now in the final analysis tempertantruminyoursoul,,

more name calling....that's a logical fallacy.

If you are wrong,, Id say GOD help you and I am sure you will be saying that too. tsk tsk I can just imagine when he plays back that tape of your life on this forum and says hey I tried and you spent your time denying me pushing me away and all I wanted to do was save you from this.

um, if i'm wrong that doesn't mean that you're right. i could be wrong and greeted by thor when i die...
you're creating a false continuum there. that's two logical fallacies in a row

LOL I'm just joshin ya ,, I'm pretty certain the lord ain't near done with you yet. BUT I CAN TELL YA THIS MUCH. IF HE DIDN'T WANT YA ,, WE WOULDN'T BE HAVING THIS umm chat.

it's not really a chat, it's you ignoring every point i make and then resorting to logical fallacies, primarily name calling.

and one last thing, Conspiriology, no atheists are saying that a god doesn't possibly exist, we're just saying that we choose to not believing something exists until there is enough proof to back up its existence.

[edit on 8/27/07 by madnessinmysoul]

You seem to think that plants originally evolved photosynthesis. It has actually been around for about 3 billion years. It evolved in very ancient bacteria. If you want to know how plants acquired photosynthesis, put the bible down and read a science book.

No again you didn't read my post and is why I gave up on you, you simply don't get it. I like the straw man label can't wait till it is back in style as the buzz word for debunkers. See the sarcasm?

Ok NOW you make my point in the photosynthesis argument AGAIN as I said I AM NOT THE ONE ESPOUSING EVOLUTIONARY MECHANICS .

Here let me ask you ,, HOW LONG WOULD PLANTS HAVE SURVIVED WITHOUT PHOTOSYNTHESIS INTACT FROM THE START OF PLANT LIFES EVOLUTION? HOW LONG? Answer that and will see where we are on this. If you answer what I think you will we will have made some progress here.



[edit: changed "code" to "quote" tags]
Quoting - Please review this link

[edit on 27-8-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by Methuselah
its good to know that people can determine when and wherein certain things evolved. you dont know and no one knows when things happened. this is all based on assumption and false dates.
I cannot believe people have you guys believing in this. and thats exactly what it is, believing.

We can be quite certain, I'm sorry you have issues with the science behind this stuff. Maybe read a bit about it. Richard Weins is worth reading, he's a Xian dude who does this sort of dating, probably best to take it from him:

www.asa3.org...

If you just forget that your ancient book of myths says the earth must be 10,000 years old or whatever, then it all might become clear. This group of goatherders couldn't even understand that bats are not birds, how can we rely on them for dating the earth?


[edit on 27-8-2007 by melatonin]

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Man are you dyslexic? I'm serious guy ,, your responses are no where near the answers to either statements I made or questions I have asked.

For instance,, the crap science READ MY POST how many times do I have to tell you this?? what does it say? IT SAYS YOUR SCIENCE IS CRAP NOT THERE SCIENCE which is the science you said you proved after they proved it. Then reading it as you said it suggested they proved it once then you did a second time. Not only do I know you have a problem forming phrases for your own thoughts but you can't comprehend them either. There Science meaning the science YOU BROUGHT INTO THE ARGUMENT AS A DIGG I ASSUME is the science I would have had to give up as you say with computers etc. NO I WAS TALKING ABOUT YOUR SCIENCE AS IT WAS TAKEN FROM YOUR OWN QUOTE.

Go back to school,, this discussion on any level is can only be articulated perhaps through sign language or the teachers of those brought by the short bus.

Oh that photosynthesis?? Plants can't live without it and therefore could not have evolved in any stage of evolutionary change without it being a finished functionary process from the start. Talk about straw man

Nice try scarecrow