Disclosure is close!

Originally posted by NGC2736
And the bashers are believers, they're not in it for the money. But somewhere up the line, someone is. And once a follower ties himself to a certain camp, he is pressured to remain faithful to it in the future lest he look weak for changing his views.

Umm, okay, but that's not what you said. You said:

Originally posted by NGC2736
I'll tell you, and others, how it appears to this observer. It seems that some folks hate Greer because he is taking over all the good dupes that spend cash on idiot ideas, and so your favorite shyster is losing needed revenue.

That's quite a bit different than someone in some sort of believer camp. So where is the 'favoite shyster losing needed revenue'?

schuylar, I haven't made a search for "enemies of Greer", or who might be profiting from whatever support he might lose due to bashing.

But now that you've pushed me, I shall look into the matter. Like I said, it's not a one to one thing, it is,IMO, more of an apples and oranges competition. I doubt there's another person going the same route as Greer that would profit directly by gaining his followers.

But if I'm selling books and DVDs on the Wingmaker Project, I would want the same kind of followers, and I would want them spending that $800.00 on my junk instead of training to be an alien hunter/caller.

There's only so much money out there, because there are only so many people that are predisposed to being believers. And money usually finds a taker.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr

Isn't it permanently embedded into the "Steven Greer photographs" thread?

No, I don't think so. It comes up as a red 'x' so I think it was originally just a link to the original public posting, before it was moved.

Hmm, well people like torsion probably still have copies of it....

And another thing, schuylar. If you were a follower of Greer, and I was into this Wingmaker myth, we might battle it out never thinking about the money angle. And Greer and this other outfit would be so persuasive to us that any other idea that failed to fit into this paradigm would be anathema to us, and in our own eyes, deserve to be bashed.

Like I said, groups/organizations are a separate animal from those that belong to them. They are corporations, and they seek to rise, and do rise, by the demise of competing groups. While I might not realize it, as a follower of the Wingmaker group, I would try to show you the wrongness about Greer because I truly believed what I was saying.

Now could it be that some of the Wingmaker Myth is true? And some of what Greer teaches is true? Sure, there could be elements of truth in both camps, but as long as you and I remain emotionally tied to being right, then we cannot even see the truth in the opposing belief system.

Now you do understand that all of this was hypothetical. I don't believe in Greer or the Wingmaker thing, and was just showing how hard it is to sift out truth from ideology.

Disclosure is not soon. If you go look at the forum's oldest threads, you'll see that people have posted that same thing over and over again. Most likely it will never come because there is nothing to disclose.

Greer lies. I don't know why people are believing him but it doesn't make sense. Truely irrational.

I think its for the Simpsons movie.

And thanks for the promotion.

Why are we fighting left over Aliens instead of left over Nazis?

No one can disclose anything, thats the rules of Confidential information.

You got a need to know?

There is a greater need not to tell you squat.

Originally posted by CidCaldensfey
Disclosure is not soon. If you go look at the forum's oldest threads, you'll see that people have posted that same thing over and over again. Most likely it will never come because there is nothing to disclose.

Greer lies. I don't know why people are believing him but it doesn't make sense. Truely irrational.

Greer has put out more solid evidence with TDP than anyone else ever.

If Greer and TDP are lying about everything, then where does that leave us? Right back at the drawing board..... with the world going straight to hell in a handbasket all around us.

TDP and the claimed Free Energy Revolution represent the one ray of hope in an otherwise dismal, hopeless and doomed world, IMO.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Anyway, that wasn't the point of the discussion; the question is whether or not the ATS staff have made any effort to negotiate with Greer/TDP/CSETI and get a rep on here to do some Q&A, if not Greer himself.

MrdDstrbr, the ATS staff don't need to extend any invitation to Leader Greer. In fact, I clearly recall Springer scoffing at mothra, which does not bode well for Cult Greer.

ATS has more respect than Cult Greer. ATS is a beacon that shines through the bunk.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Greer has put out more solid evidence with TDP than anyone else ever.

Leader Greer has put out nothing. He presented nothing original, as it was all testimony from the witnesses. Sure, Leader Greer sucked them in to be a part of his marketing campaign - and that's it.

Leader Greer has released pictures of moths all on his own. Leader Greer has written pure fiction, describing how his enemies drop guns to play guitars. Also describing how one of his zealots was killed with a cancer ray. It has to be fiction, for if it was fact, Leader Greer would be breaking the law by not reporting a murder.

Nothing solid has come from Cult Greer.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
Anyway, that wasn't the point of the discussion; the question is whether or not the ATS staff have made any effort to negotiate with Greer/TDP/CSETI and get a rep on here to do some Q&A, if not Greer himself.

MrdDstrbr, the ATS staff don't need to extend any invitation to Leader Greer. In fact, I clearly recall Springer scoffing at mothra, which does not bode well for Cult Greer.

So there we have it. ATS makes no effort at diplomacy with Greer/TDP and condemns him behind his back. Greer/TDP in turn make no effort to communicate with ATS or answer any of it's major questions as they just see it as "that internet site that attacks us behind our back".

Lovely. I'm sure you're pleased, tezzajw....

The former member "shrunkensimon" has been on thin ice and repeatedly reminded by staff that his/her acidic posting style and continued snide remarks toward fellow members is intollerable and NOT the "ATS way".

Enough is enough.

Springer...

[edit on 8-4-2007 by Springer]

While there has been some very good debate in this thread there has been some confusion as well.

AboveTopSecret.com has no opinion, attacks no one, offers no endorsements or condemnations, PERIOD.

The Membership of ATS express their opinions as they see fit within the bounds of the TAC.

The staff do the same. I saw the moth pictures and laughed out loud at what they were being presented as by Dr. Greer. That was ME, the Human Being, NOT ATS. The fact I am one of the three owners of the site and the LLC is bound to cause those who see benefit in spinning that one way or the other to, well, spin it one way or the other.

That doesn't really mean anything though, they can spin it and misrepresent the facts but that's on them.

I will say that Dr. Greer's earlier work sincerely impressed me, but the moths blew it for me PERSONALLY.

All that being said Dr. Greer is every bit as welcome to come here and post within the bounds of the TAC (which forbid recruiting and promotion) and discuss his findings with the Membership here like anyone else.

We don't "negotiate" memberships, we don't invite people. We do ask the VERY BEST to do a Q&A with the Membership from time to time, but someone promoting moths in flight as "aliens" does not meet those qualifications IMHO.

edit to add: Regarding Dr. Greer charging admission to his outings, I have NO problem with that at all, his time is as valuable as anyone else's and he should be compensated if the market will compensate him.

Springer...

[edit on 8-4-2007 by Springer]

I wouldn't be too hard on tezza because if it weren't for him, we wouldn't be talking about Greer all of the time in this forum.

So in a sense, tezza is probably Greer's best marketing tool ever because he's keeping Greer's name at the top of the forum on almost a daily basis!

Keep up the good work Tezza!

It's amazing how much mistrust and hatred is directed at Greer just because he sells things and charges for his training.

I mean, doctors and surgeons help people, and they cost $$$. Lawyers help people, they cost $$$. Teachers and trainers help people, they cost $$$. Real estate agents help people, they cost $$$....

Greer made the choice to quit medicine and do CSETI and Disclosure full time, for the benefit of humanity - but he has to feed his family of SIX and put his children through school somehow, doesn't he? Why should we hate him for making $$$ with CSETI and TDP?


[edit on 4-8-2007 by MrdDstrbr]

I know that some here feel strongly on this issue, and passion is good. I myself think that Greer is offbase on a lot of things, and unwilling to backtrack.

But the well known and high profile people are just as apt to be mislead as anyone else. I never fault a person for being wrong, but I find it tedious when they wallow in it.

It seems to me that the good doctor suffers from tunnel vision. Because he sees certain things, he thinks that whatever explanation he comes up with must be the right one, or he would have never thought of it in the first place.

Life must hurt a lot to always need to be right.

Originally posted by MrdDstrbr
If Greer and TDP are lying about everything, then where does that leave us? Right back at the drawing board..... with the world going straight to hell in a handbasket all around us.

TDP and the claimed Free Energy Revolution represent the one ray of hope in an otherwise dismal, hopeless and doomed world, IMO.

Yeah, you are right. But thats exactly what it is, a ray of hope. Hope doesn't do anything except motivate people, but thats it. By itself, it is utterly useless.

Hate to say it, but this world is doomed no matter what. It's only a matter of when and how. It's more realistic unfortunately than believing things Greer is saying and believing that hope is going to win the day.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
What i don't understand is why people want to believe fear based lies based on absolutely nothing, like Mr.Lears claims, yet when someone comes along who actually does something worthwhile for humanity, like the Disclosure Project, they just slander him.

That's a huge assumption and shows a fundamental misunderstanding on many levels. First of all, those who criticize Greer do not automatically believe Lear. You make it appear as an either/or situation. I suspect few people believe Lear when he says the Moon has a breathable atmosphere and half the gravity of Earth.

The second fundamental issue is that few Greer critics I know of or have read criticize Greer on the Disclosure Project itself. Rather, I think, the criticism of Greer may be more pronounced because Greer blew the whole deal on Disclosure to go for stuff like Mothra instead. It's that feeling of betrayal that may be the reason some Greer critics seem somewhat shrill. Had he come upon the scene and said, "Heeeere's Mothra!" I suspect people would have laughed, said "Gimme a break" and gone on their merry way. Instead, Greer gave us hope, then disappeared into etheric anchor being nonsense. He performed a perfect disinformation campaign. I'm not accusing him of being such an agent, just saying the overall effect is the same as if he were one.

Grow up tezza, seriously.

Ooooh! That's the kind of thing that earns you red flags, doesn't it? I haven't seen anything in your postings that would indicate you have been promoted to a superior moral position that would allow you to tell anyone else to 'grow up.' Perhaps you should consider criticizing the position rather than the person--just a suggestion.

If only Greer didn't take that detour into the rabbit hole things wouldn't be where they are at right now. He should leave that woo woo stuff to others like me and many others who have nothing to lose when telling about our extraordinary experiences. But Greer should have realized that he's not in a position to do that because there are too many members within the UFO community who focus exclusively on hard core physics and science and are totally turned off by the 'consciousness/esoteric/spiritual aspects of the ET and UFO phenomenon -- or they just don't want to talk about it.

But as for myself, I enjoy watching Greer's video's because I find them not only very entertaining but also inspirational.

That is mainly why I believe Greer's claims are just bogus and why I don't believe disclosure is anywhere on the horizon. He had something good going and ruined it with that spiritual stuff. Just...I don't know. I hope he doesn't actually believe the stuff he's saying.

Originally posted by Springer
All that being said Dr. Greer is every bit as welcome to come here and post within the bounds of the TAC (which forbid recruiting and promotion) and discuss his findings with the Membership here like anyone else.

We don't "negotiate" memberships, we don't invite people. We do ask the VERY BEST to do a Q&A with the Membership from time to time, but someone promoting moths in flight as "aliens" does not meet those qualifications IMHO.

Well hello Springer, I'm very glad you joined in!

I understand that the staff want to treat everyone equally and not show favoritism to people like Greer, but considering the scope of the claims made by CSETI/TDP - that they have ongoing contact with senior ambassadors from other worlds etc - and the fact that the CSETI coordinator admitted to me personally that they have more evidence in their possession than they've made available (specifically the "Gulf Breeze encounter" footage, of Greer encountering a "Triangle" UFO and interacting with it), I'm wondering if the staff can't make an exception in his case? Maybe invite him to do a Q&A session or Mix show?

If it turns out that Greer can in fact back up his more fantastic claims with evidence - that would be a HUGE story!

Also, even though people complain that Greer is impossible to get ahold of, I have found the CSETI coordinator Debbie Foch quite accessible. She usually answers emails within a day or two. And she had no objections to a researcher from ATS attending one of their trainings and reporting back....

edit to add: Instead of saying "ATS condemns Greer", I should have said "many ATS members ridicule and condemn Greer on a regular basis". Sorry for that.

[edit on 4-8-2007 by MrdDstrbr]