Russia growing as new fasists!!!

What a whole bunch of misinformation and fear mongering. Sharkman you claim that you see the world as only "Black and white". That's quite a shame it really is because a mentality such as this will really take you far. This kind of thinking will really improve international relations and cooaperation [Sarcasm]. You're ready to return to arms you say, and to me it just sounds like you're itching to start a fight for the sake of fighting.

I'm glad that there are open minded individuals out there who do not align themselves along mainstream political lines. Your government told you that the missle shield in Europe will "fight terrorists" so it must be a good thing right? Anyone who opposes it must be a bad guy, right? WRONG. Russia, in a friendly gesture, has even offered the US to use their missle shield in Azerbaijan, but of course did they accept?

I might not agree with Putin's politics and leadership style, however every government has the right and duty to integrate as well as unite it's people and to mantain stability. Different countries mantain stability using different techniques because what works in one country might not work elsewhere.

The US has hundreds if not thousands of government advocacy and political youth groups as well -- what's the difference? What makes Nashi a "coming Nazi establishment"? Just because Russia is enjoying a period of sustained economic development and and increase in national loyalty, what gives you the right to come in and rain on their parade?

[edit on 1-8-2007 by Liquidus]

Dont be so defeatist Northworld, you guys slaughtered the Red Army in the 1939 - 40 Winter War. They ran with the tail between their legs out of Finland.

Yes, the Russians may have more troops, tanks, aircraft, etc. But do they work? Do they know how to properly use them? The answer in both cases is a loud no. The Russian Army dosent even have enough rifles for their troops.

To the last comment - yes, it's true and it's true that Russia has never been underestimated and completely understood throughout all its history.

Anyway, I happen to be among the many who think that the U.S. is the villain and Russia is the hero in today's world, but I don't think that open hostilities between the two nations will ever take place due to MAD.

The important development, ongoing, is Russia's "checking" of American unilateralism/hegemony/empire that a lot of people are scared of. Russia's resurgence will allow it and its allies to simply check America and a more peaceful world will emerge where oil-rich countries need not fret of "shock and awe."

Russophobes are living in the past, in my opinion. They can't look at the world objectively due to their prejudice.

####

Colleen on Russia

Liquidis,

I'm not promoting any fear mongering. I'm relating my experience and position toward a former Cold War era enemy. Gladnost was a welcome relief to me and thousands of others in the military. The toned down rhetoric and the collapse of Soviet control on its' satelittes was welcome and over due. The Berlin Wall being torn down is one of the Greatest things to happen in my lifetime and the "Peace Dividend" was a bonus.

I don't care if they have a resurgence of national pride or if they promote groups that extol Russin patriotism, good for them. Just don't reinstate the Gulag system and the state run psychiatric facilities for dissidents and intellectuals or running around the planet killing former KGB officers.

As for misrepresenting the facts of Soviet aggression and abuses, where were my few facts wrong. You will forgive me if I didn't anotate and cross reference all my examples. I'm not writing this for a grade in Freshman History. I'm writing this to find out who the appratchiks are and who the apologist are. I'm poking the stick into the cage to illict a response, so far you doing fine.

[edit on 1-8-2007 by sharkman]

[edit on 1-8-2007 by sharkman]

No they are not nazis. We teach kids how to kill, but it's wrong to encourage them to have children ? Birth rate in Russia is low. As long as they do not promote racism or war for the purity of the race like Hitler did there is nothing wrong with what they do.
Make love not war

Here is the real nazism in the USA :
www.youtube.com...
What is this with the president ? I live in Romania, Until 1989 we were a dictature and always sang songs about our great president Ceausescu at school and at kindergarden.

[edit on 1-8-2007 by pai mei]

Originally posted by pai mei
No they are not nazis. We teach kids how to kill, but it's wrong to encourage them to have children ? Birth rate in Russia is low. As long as they do not promote racism or war for the purity of the race like Hitler did there is nothing wrong with what they do.
Make love not war

Make love not war?



I love the part where the astronaut comes landing and planting the American flag on Russian soil. I wonder what that means?

Originally posted by sharkman
I'm not promoting any fear mongering. I'm relating my experience and position toward a former Cold War era enemy.

I understand this, but unfortunately this is where you are mis-informed. You view the former USSR as an adversary, kind of like a big bully who has unruly influence on a school playground. Of course I don't blame you personally because much of it probably comes down to upbringing and ideological differences present from birth.

The Soviet system had its faults, but there were countless benefits enjoyed by the people as well. Free health care, state benefits, guaranteed jobs, embrace of all people (blacks were viewed as equals long before the US civil rights movement), etc.

My point is that you cannot thrash a country based on what your government tells you alone. Things don't have to be as grim as they once were and we had/have more in common than you may realize.

I don't care if they have a resurgence of national pride or if they promote groups that extol Russin patriotism, good for them.

I agree with you - but to understand the present you must have a fair and unbiased representation of the past. Simply because you see high levels of nationalism today does not mean that they weren't around during Soviet times. That's why the comparison of groups such as Nashi to hitler youth groups can be insulting.

Liquidis,

I don't base my conclusions or position on some form of indoctrination. I have made a sober and informed study and assessment based on my "former" adversary's historical record and performance on the world stage. The facts support any misgivings I may have about their former nature.

I'm very happy to see the reforms that the Russian people forced on their Communist task masters. Do you remember the tanks in the streets of Moscow? I do and I was worried that the Communist leadership wasn't up to the task of diffusing the situation and that it would spiral totally out of control. It was very fortunate that they were able to diffuse the situation.

The very nature of their style of socialism, because it cannot under any real definition be called communism, is an economic disaster. If the system had anything redeemable in it from a viable economic position, it would still be functioning.

I agree with you on your point about things not having to be as grim as they once were. Americans are a bit impatient with the slow pace of reform and the sometimes seemly intransigent nature of the Russian psyche.

I have always felt that because of their stouthearted nature that they would be outstanding allies. If they could be brought out of the darkness that the tyranny of Stalinist totalitarianism infected them with, they could take their proper place at the head of the leadership table in the world. I had hoped that after 9-11 and their own domestic terrorism problem, that we could pool our resources and face the common threat of radical Islam.

We have a common history of being able to work together. Although I have a distinct distaste for Stalin and his henchmen, they saved the west and bought us precious time against the Germans. Without Stalin's intervention and the sacrifice of his countrymen, Britain could not have survived nor would we have been able to win without their support. I'm aware of the great sacrifice of the Russian people, and I harbor no ill will toward them. They cannot be thanked enough for their contribution to the Allied victory. Probably no people suffered more at the hands of the Nazi's than did the Russian people of all creeds. Nazi fascism was a scourge and deserved a worst fate than was it's lot.

We again face a dangerous threat today in the virulent form of Radical, Expansionist, Fundamentalist Islam and the Russian contribution to saving civilization will again be needed. I have no doubt they are aware of this. My position is that tyranny in any form cannot be tolerated.

To all sceptics and critics-

you all will never understand why I am seeing Russia as evil.You must live under Soviet regime and whit russians to understand it.n the Western everyone sees only the bad things of WW2 as Hitler.No one is speaking about USSR crimes against humanity.Only we(latvians) lost 100,000 peoples in deportations and kilings.
As for now,Russia is taking curse to another war monger state.They are violating human rights and international laws,tolerance in the ways that wetern peoples cant imagine.Its esasy to criticize me when you seting far away from russia and only information you have is only from media and web.My statments about russia is based on my own experience, what I have seen in my country and in Russia.And I really dont know about that U.S is an evil and i dont see it because whit all it mistakes they are fighting about vallues that are better to me as russians.You know what is the major diferrent betwenn U.S,western policie and Russia.Western are fighting that there are no poor,but russians have always fight that there are no rich.And you know who was the rich??they deported peoples and called them fashists those who have more than one cow,or have more than one house!!!The sadest thing is that it isnt just russians gonerment point of wiew,but the hole nations opinion.
Thanks,Shrakman i see you have seen also an USSR's ''good things" and you understands me.Thank you for that!!

To all sceptics and critics-

you all will never understand why I am seeing Russia as evil.You must live under Soviet regime and whit russians to understand it.n the Western everyone sees only the bad things of WW2 as Hitler.No one is speaking about USSR crimes against humanity.Only we(latvians) lost 100,000 peoples in deportations and kilings.
As for now,Russia is taking curse to another war monger state.They are violating human rights and international laws,tolerance in the ways that wetern peoples cant imagine.Its esasy to criticize me when you seting far away from russia and only information you have is only from media and web.My statments about russia is based on my own experience, what I have seen in my country and in Russia.And I really dont know about that U.S is an evil and i dont see it because whit all it mistakes they are fighting about vallues that are better to me as russians.You know what is the major diferrent betwenn U.S,western policie and Russia.Western are fighting that there are no poor,but russians have always fight that there are no rich.And you know who was the rich??they deported peoples and called them fashists those who have more than one cow,or have more than one house!!!The sadest thing is that it isnt just russians gonerment point of wiew,but the hole nations opinion.
Thanks,Sharkman i see you have seen also an USSR's ''good things" and you understands me.Thank you for that!!

Originally posted by swesais
To all sceptics and critics-

you all will never understand why I am seeing Russia as evil.You must live under Soviet regime and whit russians to understand it.n the Western everyone sees only the bad things of WW2 as Hitler.No one is speaking about USSR crimes against humanity.Only we(latvians) lost 100,000 peoples in deportations and kilings.
As for now,Russia is taking curse to another war monger state.They are violating human rights and international laws,tolerance in the ways that wetern peoples cant imagine.Its esasy to criticize me when you seting far away from russia and only information you have is only from media and web.My statments about russia is based on my own experience, what I have seen in my country and in Russia.And I really dont know about that U.S is an evil and i dont see it because whit all it mistakes they are fighting about vallues that are better to me as russians.You know what is the major diferrent betwenn U.S,western policie and Russia.Western are fighting that there are no poor,but russians have always fight that there are no rich.And you know who was the rich??they deported peoples and called them fashists those who have more than one cow,or have more than one house!!!The sadest thing is that it isnt just russians gonerment point of wiew,but the hole nations opinion.
Thanks,Sharkman i see you have seen also an USSR's ''good things" and you understands me.Thank you for that!!

Its almost 20 years past now and all you people from Latvia , Estonia and kinds like you are doing are blashing and complaning about the ''BAD USSR'' get your own life and start looking forward. You like the US so much maybe you would like a missle in your country as well to become a target for an ICBM , You see the USA as good because supposdly they are fighting for the good of minkind, peace and they are puting the missles in Europe for the good and protection of Europe yeah right protection now Europe is once more a target for ours ICBMs good like in case a war will occur .

Originally posted by Russian Boy

Originally posted by swesais
To all sceptics and critics-

you all will never understand why I am seeing Russia as evil.You must live under Soviet regime and whit russians to understand it.n the Western everyone sees only the bad things of WW2 as Hitler.No one is speaking about USSR crimes against humanity.Only we(latvians) lost 100,000 peoples in deportations and kilings.
As for now,Russia is taking curse to another war monger state.They are violating human rights and international laws,tolerance in the ways that wetern peoples cant imagine.Its esasy to criticize me when you seting far away from russia and only information you have is only from media and web.My statments about russia is based on my own experience, what I have seen in my country and in Russia.And I really dont know about that U.S is an evil and i dont see it because whit all it mistakes they are fighting about vallues that are better to me as russians.You know what is the major diferrent betwenn U.S,western policie and Russia.Western are fighting that there are no poor,but russians have always fight that there are no rich.And you know who was the rich??they deported peoples and called them fashists those who have more than one cow,or have more than one house!!!The sadest thing is that it isnt just russians gonerment point of wiew,but the hole nations opinion.
Thanks,Sharkman i see you have seen also an USSR's ''good things" and you understands me.Thank you for that!!

Its almost 20 years past now and all you people from Latvia , Estonia and kinds like you are doing are blashing and complaning about the ''BAD USSR'' get your own life and start looking forward. You like the US so much maybe you would like a missle in your country as well to become a target for an ICBM , You see the USA as good because supposdly they are fighting for the good of minkind, peace and they are puting the missles in Europe for the good and protection of Europe

yeah right protection

now Europe is once more a target for ours ICBMs good like in case a war will occur .

Well we are trying to look forward,but you dont let us!!
Here you see,your basic tactics is to tretend every country whit your ICBMs.And yes we like U.S. because we are seeing it as only who can put you at your right place.And yourself should look forward, not living in post sowiet spirit.Or you suggest to place your ICBm's and army bases to ''protect us''?

Originally posted by ka47
i don't know if you've ever lived in a communist dictatorship, but i would like to send all you people who try to say that the u.s.a is a fascist state to one. then you'll get to see WHAT A REAL DICTATORSHIP IS LIKE...

well, in fact I did...

@ swesais and sharkman

it seems to me that you dont see any difference between Russia and the USSR

FDS,
well your right about me, I realy dont see any diferences between USSR and Russia now.In early stages I hoped that Russian Federation will take another way.but after second termin of Putins regime the history is repeating.
But that's only my point of wiew.You are free to think another way.
Peace!!!!

Originally posted by swesais

Well we are trying to look forward,but you dont let us!!
Here you see,your basic tactics is to tretend every country whit your ICBMs.And yes we like U.S. because we are seeing it as only who can put you at your right place.And yourself should look forward, not living in post sowiet spirit.Or you suggest to place your ICBm's and army bases to ''protect us''?

We do not threat anybody unless someone threaten us. You say you like USA but for USA you are an other puppet , you have nothing to offer to them than your land as an evasion of target in case of war thats all . We do not live in post soviet spirit its you who still think like this , get it over with .




[edit on 3-8-2007 by Russian Boy]

Originally posted by Russian Boy

Originally posted by swesais

Originally posted by Russian Boy
Well we are trying to look forward,but you dont let us!!
Here you see,your basic tactics is to tretend every country whit your ICBMs.And yes we like U.S. because we are seeing it as only who can put you at your right place.And yourself should look forward, not living in post sowiet spirit.Or you suggest to place your ICBm's and army bases to ''protect us''?

We do not threat anybody unless someone threaten us. You say you like USA but for USA you are an other puppet , you have nothing to offer to them than your land as an evasion of target in case of war thats all . We do not live in post soviet spirit its you who still think like this , get it over with .

[edit on 3-8-2007 by Russian Boy]

Well I see you live in U.K.!!Have you ever been in Russia??Real Russia,not Moscow??For example in Novosibirsk,or Veliliji Luki.I have,and it seem that time there has stoped!!!And yes we know that to USA we are puppets but I prefer to be U.S puppet than Russia puppet!
And how do you not treatend anyone??What about Georgia??Chehnja??Baltic states??Belarus??Ok not whit ICBM's(dont have such information,but that doesnt prove it didnt exist),but whit your resurces like gas,oil???

[edit on 3-8-2007 by swesais]

Originally posted by swesais

Well I see you live in U.K.!!Have you ever been in Russia??Real Russia,not Moscow??For example in Novosibirsk,or Veliliji Luki.I have,and it seem that time there has stoped!!!And yes we know that to USA we are puppets but I prefer to be U.S puppet than Russia puppet!
And how do you not treatend anyone??What about Georgia??Chehnja??Baltic states??Belarus??Ok not whit ICBM's(dont have such information,but that doesnt prove it didnt exist),but whit your resurces like gas,oil???

[edit on 3-8-2007 by swesais]

You have to understand that after the collapse of USSR it is not easy in such a period of time to put the country back on feet and we are talking about a VAST area. Chechnya is a rogue state , Belarus has 500.000.000 milions of dollars of unpaid gas , Baltic states are provocative all they do are just sit there and find new ways to irritate Russia .

Originally posted by Russian Boy
You have to understand that after the collapse of USSR it is not easy in such a period of time to put the country back on feet and we are talking about a VAST area. Chechnya is a rogue state , Belarus has 500.000.000 milions of dollars of unpaid gas , Baltic states are provocative all they do are just sit there and find new ways to irritate Russia .

And what are you understanding under ''rougue state''?
And how are Baltic states provocative??Than we forced russians who live in Baltic states to learn language of country in that they live???That we dont celebrate soviet ocupation??That we are removing monuments of Soviet era that is humilating us??Is that you are calling provocative??we dont tell Russia how to live and how to treaten foreign incomers!!

Originally posted by swesais

Originally posted by Russian Boy
You have to understand that after the collapse of USSR it is not easy in such a period of time to put the country back on feet and we are talking about a VAST area. Chechnya is a rogue state , Belarus has 500.000.000 milions of dollars of unpaid gas , Baltic states are provocative all they do are just sit there and find new ways to irritate Russia .

And what are you understanding under ''rougue state''?
And how are Baltic states provocative??Than we forced russians who live in Baltic states to learn language of country in that they live???That we dont celebrate soviet ocupation??That we are removing monuments of Soviet era that is humilating us??Is that you are calling provocative??we dont tell Russia how to live and how to treaten foreign incomers!!

''Rougue state'' ask an American about that they will give you better explanation . You force them to forget history . By removing soviet monuments you are insalting the soldiers who faught the Nazi , soldiers not only Russians , but from all the Ussr including Estonians and from Latvia. And how about when your country asked from Russia i think 26 billions dollars it was for the so called ''occupation'' , and not thinking how much money the Soviets put in your country to make from farm to a city .

For your information Estonia and Latvia were independent before the USSR invaded them at '39 so they didn't belong to USSR and they certainly did not welcome the red army and only joined as they were forced to. That statue was an insult to the entire baltic.

1939 the baltic countries were prosperous and independet democrasies and USSR invaded them BEFORE Nazis came. Actually Hitler was greeted as a liberator when werhmacth drove Russians away... So check your facts Russian Boy...

Ps. Compare Estonia and Finland at 1990 and you see how much damage USSR occupation did to Estonia.

[edit on 3-8-2007 by northwolf]