A bit young for religion?

Interesting concept, I would like to ask the original Poster if they feel the same abut the theory of evolyution. It is taught from kindergarden on and I am wondering if you would agree that it too should be withheld until a chil can think reasonably like you said?

Or should we continue to lie to the little ones in order to brainwash them into buying the lies of evolution?

Also are you suggesting that we should stop Parents from raising their own children in they way they see fit?

I am an Independent Conservativ and I dislike Communism, but I do not suppose to tell other parents what they can teach their kids. Let me give you an example of this. ELIAN GONZALES, the little Cuban boy all the so called Family Party (republicans) wanted to strip the father form the child. I completely disagreed with the republicans on this because it is the Right of the father to be with his son and to teach his son as he sees fit, I would like to see a world where Parents are given those Rights back, because the minute we start letting society decide what a parent can or can not teach their children is the minute we all lose our kids. I am for Parental Rights over all else, and I would only interfere with those Rights for the safety of the child. For instance chilfdren being sexually abused should be saved, and possibly children being taught hatred should be saved, like a KKK child, although I am less certain on that one.

When we let Government decide what to teach our kids and take that right from the parents we do a great disservice to Freedom, Liberty and much more. IMO

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Interesting concept, I would like to ask the original Poster if they feel the same abut the theory of evolyution. It is taught from kindergarden on and I am wondering if you would agree that it too should be withheld until a chil can think reasonably like you said?-------forgive the color, i can't work the quotes. first, the theory of evolution is not tought in kindergarden. s, wrong there. should it be witheld? of course not. it is science and belongs in science class. it is tought as the general accepted theory. they teach it..they do not ingrain it. they do not worship it and tell them how to live their life by it. they teach them science in a science class. that is why there are theology classes. you want your kid to learn about the god book? teach him or enroll him in a sundy school type deal. has no place in public schools paid for by tax dollars.....i don't know what sage they start with the evolution but it damn sure is not in kindergarden

Or should we continue to lie to the little ones in order to brainwash them into buying the lies of evolution?------is that your twist? lies....i always thought they were tought the general accepted scientific theory...nobody passes it of as absolute infallible truth....

Also are you suggesting that we should stop Parents from raising their own children in they way they see fit?-----absolutely not....i think all parents should raise their kids the way they see fit...that don't mean i have to accept what they teach them. it's not my business. just make sure they don't solicit at my house.....i don't care ig you teach your kids that the world was created by a purple elephant...the hell should i care for?

I am an Independent Conservativ and I dislike Communism, but I do not suppose to tell other parents what they can teach their kids. ----neither do i. i don't have to like what you teach your kid or get on board with the thinking.....it's your kid. teach him what you want.

When we let Government decide what to teach our kids and take that right from the parents we do a great disservice to Freedom, Liberty and much more. IMO

^^^^you mean like when the gov steps in and tells the schol that they are to start teaching ID?
that what you are talking about?

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Interesting concept, I would like to ask the original Poster if they feel the same abut the theory of evolyution. It is taught from kindergarden on and I am wondering if you would agree that it too should be withheld until a chil can think reasonably like you said?

That's an unreasonable comparison in that the theory of evolution has a minimal impact upon society, where as religion's impact is huge.

Originally posted by theindependentjournalAlso are you suggesting that we should stop Parents from raising their own children in they way they see fit?

Nope, you have it backwards. I'm saying parents should have MORE freedom to raise our children in the way we see fit. R.E is mandatory in the schools here, as a parent I have no practical choice but to let my children sit through the conditioning. If a choice was offered which allowed the kids to sit out of these classes I'd be happy. No one has the right to push religion onto my children as far as I'm concerned.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
I don't "defend" anything. I'm trying to tell you that it is not a religion and nobody is listening, because for whatever reason they're incapable of understanding it.

If you read my statement again, you'll see I am not calling it a religion, but a "religious belief."

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
I don't pray to the law of gravity. I don't give offerings to quantum theory. I don't listen to mechanical engineers "preach."

Those are rituals that are normal to religion yes, but they are not required to have a "religious belief."

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
I am denying ignorance, not "defending" a belief. Atheism is a lack of belief.

Actually that would be agnosticism. Atheism is not a lack of belief, but THE belief that there is no god. I touched on this earlier in the thread:
"It may not be as complex of a belief system as religion, but it is still a shared and labeled belief about the supernatural that is based on "faith" alone."

Saying that you don't know if there is a God is different than saying that there is no God.

You can twist the semantics all you want, but it's not a religion, nor is it a religious belief. It is lack of belief.

If you can't see the difference there, then it's your problem. Sorry you can't understand the concept, but it is what it is.

And now, rather than argue in circles all night, I shall find something better to do with my time.

Originally posted by Corum
Nope, you have it backwards. I'm saying parents should have MORE freedom to raise our children in the way we see fit. R.E is mandatory in the schools here, as a parent I have no practical choice but to let my children sit through the conditioning. If a choice was offered which allowed the kids to sit out of these classes I'd be happy. No one has the right to push religion onto my children as far as I'm concerned.

I think you can have them removed from RE classes if you like. You can certainly have them removed from religious assemblies AM.

However, I think a good thorough objective RE lession about world religion is a good thing. Allowing children access to all the different fantastical stories sort of opens their eyes I feel...

I guess it depends on the teacher.

[edit on 22-7-2007 by melatonin]

Originally posted by Boondock78

that, and the wants that 'money' brought to the human animal.

Ahem, materialism.... Which by the way is secularism...

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Interesting concept, I would like to ask the original Poster if they feel the same abut the theory of evolyution. It is taught from kindergarden on and I am wondering if you would agree that it too should be withheld until a chil can think reasonably like you said?

um, evolution isn't taught in kindergarten. and again, evolution is not a religion. it is science with solid evidence supporting it

Or should we continue to lie to the little ones in order to brainwash them into buying the lies of evolution?

and you have yet to point out one of the supposed "lies" of evolutionary theory.

Also are you suggesting that we should stop Parents from raising their own children in they way they see fit?

it's one thing to raise kids, it's another to brainwash them. would you want a parent forcing their kids to believe that star trek is the pinnacle of human creativity with a religious fervor?
there is no need to teach kids religion at such a young age, they are far from able to understand theology, they immediately assume everything told from authority is truth, and they don't get exposed to a multitude of religions

For instance chilfdren being sexually abused should be saved, and possibly children being taught hatred should be saved, like a KKK child, although I am less certain on that one.

hmm... interesting, because the KKK teach hate through religion... just like your religion is one of hatred.

When we let Government decide what to teach our kids and take that right from the parents we do a great disservice to Freedom, Liberty and much more. IMO

really? so you're against public education....
time to go back to being a second-world country!

Evolutions probably the best theory we have so far, and theres of course all the evidence supporting it.
BUT, I think the flaws in it should also be taught.
They're not told anything about the counter arguments, and I think it would be great if they did. It would get kids thinking alot more.

Originally posted by jbondo
Isn't it funny how Atheists have this overwhelming preoccupation with Christians and proving something to us or telling us how stupid we are or calling us abusive for raising our children with a sense of love, spirituality and morality?

It would be fine if these were the only "values" instilled. But, you have to admit that there is alot of HATE being instilled in these children also.

Originally posted by DenyAllKnowledge
Surely deciding what your child should not be taught is censorship, limiting their breadth of knowledge and therefore limiting their options for decisionmaking.

So, you've taught your children Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Paganism etc. etc.? Not to start a flame war, but maybe you should take your own advice?

Edit: Nevermind. After reading more of your posts, I understand where you're comming from.

[edit on 7/24/2007 by Griff]

I look at religions are different schools. You can choose to go or your parents force you to go. While you're in their school, you must behave like everyone else in the school. No room for individuals. Now, you can always change school, despite the 'do not choose other schools, they are wrong!' signs everywhere.

Here's what bothers me. I've asked several rabbi's about what make them believe in their religion, knowing it's the 'correct' one.... not one has been able to answer yet. I ASSUME that I would get a similar answer from other religions. They are all based on faith and interpretation.

When I was 7, in Israel, I had orthodox friends. I wasn't religious at the time but their customs intrigued me. It was interesting. Wow, why do you do this and why do you follow this and why and why, I would ask. Once I decided of my own free will to go to synogauge(sp?) and see what it's like. My parents said I was brainwashed and they were so worried I would stay on the 'other side'.

I am 29 today, and not religious at all. I see that every religion is an interpretation, starting with one person and spreading. Now, answer me this, Why are there so many streams in religion? catholics, protestants, orthodox jews, reform jews, sunni, shiite, etc?
They all have different interpretations.... so if they can't agree to agree, why should I listen to any of them?
Why are all laws in religion so strict (ie. can't have kids out of wedlock, can't eat pork, can't touch pork, must have lots of kids) but as issues today arise, the leaders of these faiths can 'allow' or 'change' the religion to accommodate these new believers...

so let's see, I am not allowed to stray from the path at all, but you have hasidic rabbis who steal money, priests and bishops who molest kids, religious muslim leaders who instruct to kill as many infidels as possible.

My whole point is that yes, I think these days kids are being brainwashed too early, because the parents were brainwashed themselves as kids.

I want to ask this, why is it that kids are taught about religion from age 3 or 4 or 5, but are not allowed to hear/see/read anything to do with sex until they're much older? Why not teach kids how nature works? bah, I'm rambling on here...

Peace and love to all.

Agreed. I was pretty much forced to go to church until I got old enought to not have to. I still consider myself a christian even though I don't go to church as often. I believe that there's more to God than rules and worship. God is something that man may never understand. But I am grateful that I did got to church as a child because I think it helped me be a better person in the long run.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Boondock78

that, and the wants that 'money' brought to the human animal.

Ahem, materialism.... Which by the way is secularism...

Then, that would mean that the "church" is secular? For they are the ones who make massive amounts of money. Or do you consider "Benny's" little multimillion dollar home non-secular? Or his multimillion dollar lear jet?

i'd like to just say that nobody really teaches their kids religion.. well, a few do... most indoctrinate. kids are told that one religion is right and they hardly, if ever, get told about the other religions. the problem is that they will accept it as 100% truth just because of who it's coming from

and jbondo, morality isn't a product of religion... it actually develops independently of respective religion.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Boondock78

that, and the wants that 'money' brought to the human animal.

Ahem, materialism.... Which by the way is secularism...

Ahem...come off it. the church takes in BILLIONS anually and pays nothing in taxes...
what point are you trying to make?

those jehovas that rolled up to my house didn't pull up in a taurus or a kia like my wife and i have...they rolled up in a nice, new caddy.



[edit on 24-7-2007 by Boondock78]

Originally posted by Corum
Wouldn't it be fairer to let our kids reach at least say...10yrs old before they're taught the bible e.t.c?

Yes I think it's a brilliant idea as long as you add evolution and any other supposed means of their being created to your e.t.c.

Interesting I was rather entertained by dinosaurs as a kid, little kid. Yep, so to be "fairer" you'd have to count them out too, on the account of a bunch of fruitloops running around telling them they are mmiiiiiillions of yyyears oooooooooold. hehe

It's my little opinion that nobody truly wants "it" to be "fair". That'd be just too good. They just want "their" way and not the creator's way. If they only knew just how powerless "they" are.

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
Or should we continue to lie to the little ones in order to brainwash them into buying the lies of evolution?

Good question. If I just evolved what's the point in living? If life gets rough, just snuff it out. I'll just feed the worms anyhow. The lights will go out and that'll be it.

Had the creator not given me life a few years ago. I could definitely see how that mindset would be plausible.

The religion of evolution is likely the most deadly of all. Just like any other religion the kids just choke down what the teachers feed them. They don't give a flying hoot about what's being fed to them. Just go through the ritual because the ritual is the "thing to do".

Religion is for the dead. Jesus Christ is the life.


Yea religion is everywhere. All the captives are religious with something. If they aren't brought into bondage by a church building, it's a drug. If it's not a drug it's a person, or a game, or a piece of technology, or a political party, or the lodge, or the fear of the "brothers", or the mosque, or the synagogue, or you name it. The LORD came to set the captives free, and he does. As many as will receive him. As it is written.

If we condemn religion let's get em all.....

and if Evilution isn't a religion, why does it have so many preachers? You'd near bout think they were on payroll or somethin. Well most of them are. I know of one here for a fact that might read this. If he ever saw the truth and opposed the lie he's teaching, he'd lose his job. Think I'm speaking to quite a few right there. Tis why one cannot serve both GOD and money.

'Evilution', the only religion whose members do not accept it as a religion.

Oh, sorry, People also say the theory of anthropogenic global warming is a religion, I think that's another whose members do not accept it as a relgion.

You can ask a member of most religions and they'll proudly claim their religious status and category. But in these two cases, it seems otherwise.

I wonder why it's only opponents who make these claims...

[edit on 25-7-2007 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin
You can ask a member of most religions and they'll proudly claim their religious status and category. But in these two cases, it seems otherwise.

Hmm, well I'm too ignorant regarding the second to even comment, however as far as the Atheist/Evolutionist, or as one so brilliantly stated one time, the "violently blind". Those fellers certainly wouldn't waste anytime letting one know exactly "what" they are and how "brilliant" the poor blind souls are who taught them the garbage.