lets quit screwing around and prove or disprove the bible: here is how

Point: Boondock, 'choosing' not to research something you make a vehement, aggressive post against is ignorant, and insulting to those of us you are regarding.

Point: Considering many people research and study the Bible for their entire lives, I doubt things are 'common knowledge', especially to someone who won't even read the Book. Further, I think reading the subject you are attacking would give you 'quite a bit of answers.'

Point: Many tales in the Bible are simply tales for moral interpretation of God's will. This is 'common knowledge'. Do I personally believe the Ark story, literally? No. Do I remain an Agnostic-Christian? Yes. How is this possible? Because I cared about religion enough to study it, rather than go off of 'common knowledge.'

Point: "i know enough of it to know that i want no part of it....even if all the stories were true, i still don't want to follow a god or more specifically, that god."
This simply sounds ignorant, and childish at best.
"Even if God were real, I wouldn't want to follow him."
It sounds like a teenager rebelling against society.
Please, when you post, tell us about your question, not about your personal beliefs while you attack the spirituality of many posters here.

Point: God is only vengeful in some denominations of Christianity. Judaism and Islam, to my knowledge, he is much more .. 'angry.'

Point: That 'dude' isn't making you live your life any differently. Christianity, by its own rules, does not force itself on others. You can do what you want, and no matter how much you cry that you're being oppressed, you're not. That was simply the extremism of mis-interpreted followers and politics many years ago, and to a much, much lesser extent today.

Point: We don't know anything. Claiming you can prove whether a God, any God exists or not is again, ignorant, and at best, arrogant. Saying people go on something without any knowledge or belief is an interesting reflection considering your 'I won't read the Bible, but I'll attack it' stance, and your 'I can prove God doesn't exist' belief.

Point: The Bible does not force you to believe anything. Further more, most of your views on the Bible and its social-stances that you think are 'common knowledge' are not. They are the beliefs of the outspoken, relative extremists, and improper interpretation. On the subject of Gay Marriage, the Bible goes against it. And it has a right to. Without discussing politics: Marriage is a religious institution. Erego, the Bible is automatically correct. The Bible also says homosexuals are not natural. This is still being debated among the scientific community, so do not pretend you know the answer.
Please, for someone who claims to be against 'ignorance' and 'bias', your posts reflect a healthy dose of both.

Point: God does not 'spew crap'. If you mean the numerous interpretations and translations of the original, which, for all we know was vastly different, then sure. Furthermore, you still seem to be riding the misconceptions that all Christians believe this, and that the Bible states particular rules. There are plenty of Christians who support homosexuals. Simply not them being married. [Because, again, Marriage is a religious institution if you disregard the political and economic advantages, which is an entirely different issue.]

Point: Science is intertwined with Politics. Deal with it.
It has been since the middle-ages, and arguably, even before.

Point: We 'open up books' and presume everything written is 100% true every day. Ever go to School?

If they found the Ark, that wouldn't prove the bible at all. It would simply be 1 data point against the plethora of data points saying otherwise. Now, somethings in the bible might be factual just because of sheer chance but the contradictions and hypocrisy in the text is enough to send anybody away from it. Yes, I studied Theology for 6 years. Before that period I was purely Agnostic and after reading through the bible and all of it's passages, not cherry picking my way through like a lot of folks tend to do, I became an Atheist.

I think the easiest way to show anybody the truth is to have them study their holy text. It's filled with immoral and crude thoughts, very much the norm for that periods humans. How can it be influenced by a divine entity if it's completely built upon human selfishness? Not to mention the stupidity. Interestingly, the bible would suppress all advancement in sociology & intellect just so people wouldn't question the text. A way to keep people ignorant of the truth.

Obviously, I'll get questioned but I don't feel the need to debate for hundreds of pages with the same folks as I have done before.

But I will say this final thing: If you remove your gimp in thought you'll surely understand the other topics on this forum with far more clarity. There's no need to add an extra factor into everything that comes in here and explain it by distorting, contorting, and raping the original data points to explain the unexplainable.

Don't have time right now to read the whole thread-forgive me. The ark has been photographed. There are gold covered chariot wheels in the Dead Sea in areas we have reason to believe have always been under water--they're too fragile to bring up and are not always visible due to shifting sands but have been photographed and documented by divers. Every culture around the world has an account of a global deluge. The Chinese symbol for ocean liner is 8 people in a boat, and the dates for the flood corespond to several big asteroid hits. That's just off the top of my head. The short earth theory is likely not at all true and this error can be explained by the fact that the earth shifts its magnetic poles every so many thousand years. Even with the occaisional inaccuracies, it is really fun to study Creationism science. But I suspect yours is a deeper question. If you want to know if the Christian God is real, try calling on Him in one of those dark nights of the soul we all experience now and then. Ask Him to show Himself to you, to be real in your life, to PROVE His existence to you. He will.
Best Wishes, the fat lady

Originally posted by Fett Pinkus
When hearing about Noah i always ask myself how the Koala bears from australia made it to the ark and back to australia without eucalypt leaves?

This is the only food source for them and these trees that they prefer are only in australia.

And when at it how did the south american sloth make it in time to the ark?

question after question and nonone will be able to give me a plausible answer

Here is a great site that asks alot of questions that creationists cannot answer in regards to the flood

I hope that none of the christians here have ignored my post in which i posted an excellent link asking questions about noahs ark

Originally posted by Iblis
Point: Boondock, 'choosing' not to research something you make a vehement, aggressive post against is ignorant, and insulting to those of us you are regarding.


Point: "i know enough of it to know that i want no part of it....even if all the stories were true, i still don't want to follow a god or more specifically, that god."


This simply sounds ignorant, and childish at best.
"Even if God were real, I wouldn't want to follow him."
It sounds like a teenager rebelling against society.
. On the subject of Gay Marriage, the Bible goes against it. And it has a right to.

i do not need to read the book. i am supposed to read the book in question to prove to me the book in question? nah......not my fault if you feel like i was attacking your spirituality.....i didn't mean to but i also don't really care about your spirituality or anyone elses....thats just the way it is.
you keep saying i am ignorant....why? cause i said even if there was proven there is a god that i want no part in it? that is simply the truth.
i in fact want no part of it.....i don't need a magic man and his book telling me how to live my life.

to the gay marriage...THAT is a primary reason why i want no part of it...imo, it divides people. i am a married hetero man but i can not support a belief system that speaks out against things that adults should have the right to do.
that is my opinion.

as far as spewing crap, that is exactly what i think it is....my opinion is just as valid as yours....sorry if it makes you feel bad but i am not running around calling you ignorant....
it does not make me ignorant cause i have not read the bible.

i know enough. i was forced to go to church for long enough. i have devout extended family and have seen enough of what they do in their every day lives.....my sons mom is the biggest hypocritical catholic there is....THAT is what i see.


edit* and marriage is not a religious dea...it is a legal contract between two people and the state....2k years ago it may have been more about religion but that is not how it is today....times/things change...

see what i mean..? i need to go no further than knowing the bible speaks out against gay marriage. i think that is crappy and a terrible thing to spew and i want no part of it....that is my right. ignorant or not, it is what it is

[edit on 26-7-2007 by Boondock78]

Originally posted by thefatlady
Don't have time right now to read the whole thread-forgive me. The ark has been photographed. If you want to know if the Christian God is real, try calling on Him in one of those dark nights of the soul we all experience now and then. Ask Him to show Himself to you, to be real in your life, to PROVE His existence to you. He will.
Best Wishes, the fat lady

the ark photographed? you must mean the satelite photo's of snow on a mountain.....

as far as calling on god....i have better things to do.....he ain't coming cause he is not there.....

if all i had to do was ask for him to show himself....gimmie a break

Originally posted by Iblis
Point: Boondock, 'choosing' not to research something you make a vehement, aggressive post against is ignorant, and insulting to those of us you are regarding.

Point: Considering many people research and study the Bible for their entire lives, I doubt things are 'common knowledge', especially to someone who won't even read the Book.

Point: A great many atheists, myself and madnessinmysoul among them have read the bible and know a lot about the history behind it as well.

We still don't believe in your god, the bible is not to be taken literally, and all the indignance in the world wont' change it.

Majormalfunction-

Point: My point was that Boondock had not read it. This what not an attack against you, or a statement against the anti-Bible group at large.

Point: On the contrary, the only thing I said about taking the bible, was that much of it was symbolic. I never once said it was literal, and in fact, in several threads have denounced the decision to do so. Erego, we are in agreement.

Boondock --

Point: You must understand something to argue it. Having family members be Christian does not make you knowledgeable about Christianity, as displayed by your posts.
And, yes, in fact, if you are attacking Christianity.. than.. it is your fault. I never cited you on this, I simply said you were. And are. This isn't part of my argument, or our debate, simply a fact. One which is not a point for either side -- no need to argue it!

Point: Your opinion and personal decisions are not what I proclaimed ignorant -- nor would I. Ignorance is a matter of intellect, not of personal beliefs or convictions! [Unlike what many people here seem to believe. And, that is not a crack at you, but at this board at large.]

Point: 'Magic man' and the Bible; my argument was that you'd said even if they were real you wouldn't listen to them. I said that sounded like adolescent rebellion. Not a serious contention.

Point: Marriage is a religious institution. That is all. THE STATE gave it legal and economic benefits -- blame them. I personally believe the state should allow a union between homosexuals that would offer those same benefits. -However-, please make the distinction between state marriage, and religious marriage. The state is merely protecting itself using religion -- That is what you should be angry at.

Point: An opinion is simply that. An opinion. No ones is greater, and I agree whole-heartedly with you. And no! Far from! I don't think you are ignorant in general because you have not read the Bible, but ignorant on the subject you are bringing up. After all, would you debate Biology if you never read about it? Or Physics? Given, they're different subjects entirely, though the argument stands.

Point: Your family could be poor followers. Or they have interpreted the texts incorrectly. Or perhaps your local parish is not translating the word well. -However-, and irregardless, going to Church, and having family in the Church does not at all make you understand the Bible or Christianity. Would repeatedly going to prayer at a Mosque, forced by, say, captives, mean that I understand, thoroughly, Islam? Even if I did, it'd be radical Islam.

Point: I know time's change. That is why I have made ample notices that the religious marriage I speak of, and state marriage, or quite different.

Point: Your hatred/disdain/apathy for the Bible is not my concern, and not this topics concern. I respect your wishes, but only care about the argument at hand. :]

I respect you wholly, Boondock, even if our opinions are crossed, and become misunderstood.

Edit: "We" do not support anything. So, please take the post below mine with a grain of salt. This is her opinion, and that of, apparently, her local group.

[edit on 26-7-2007 by Iblis]

At the risk of sounding foolish---we think Noah brought baby animals, maybe in some cases eggs, and we believe he brought ancestors of current day species that had not specialized into such a huge variety yet. Some evidence suggests that humans and animals had much more DNA at one time and that the individual characteristics in such huge variety we see now may be in part a result of each succeeding generation of offspring having less DNA.

Originally posted by Boondock78

Originally posted by Iblis
Point: Boondock, 'choosing' not to research something you make a vehement, aggressive post against is ignorant, and insulting to those of us you are regarding.


Point: "i know enough of it to know that i want no part of it....even if all the stories were true, i still don't want to follow a god or more specifically, that god."


This simply sounds ignorant, and childish at best.
"Even if God were real, I wouldn't want to follow him."
It sounds like a teenager rebelling against society.
. On the subject of Gay Marriage, the Bible goes against it. And it has a right to.

i do not need to read the book. i am supposed to read the book in question to prove to me the book in question? nah......not my fault if you feel like i was attacking your spirituality.....i didn't mean to but i also don't really care about your spirituality or anyone elses....thats just the way it is.
you keep saying i am ignorant....why? cause i said even if there was proven there is a god that i want no part in it? that is simply the truth.
i in fact want no part of it.....i don't need a magic man and his book telling me how to live my life.

to the gay marriage...THAT is a primary reason why i want no part of it...imo, it divides people. i am a married hetero man but i can not support a belief system that speaks out against things that adults should have the right to do.
that is my opinion.

as far as spewing crap, that is exactly what i think it is....my opinion is just as valid as yours....sorry if it makes you feel bad but i am not running around calling you ignorant....
it does not make me ignorant cause i have not read the bible.

i know enough. i was forced to go to church for long enough. i have devout extended family and have seen enough of what they do in their every day lives.....my sons mom is the biggest hypocritical catholic there is....THAT is what i see.


edit* and marriage is not a religious dea...it is a legal contract between two people and the state....2k years ago it may have been more about religion but that is not how it is today....times/things change...

see what i mean..? i need to go no further than knowing the bible speaks out against gay marriage. i think that is crappy and a terrible thing to spew and i want no part of it....that is my right. ignorant or not, it is what it is

[edit on 26-7-2007 by Boondock78]

thefatlady replies:
It's been said that Christians are the worst possible advertising for our God, and I wholeheartedly agree with that statement. My sister was gay and I don't like the way gay people get treated.

As to our book though, it is foolish and ignorant to claim you disagree when you haven't read it. Not a very intelligent position to come from on it. As to any belief system that divides people---you either stand for something or you'll fall for anything. It's a matter of integrity and truth. Once a person decides what they believe, it is then up to them to put those beliefs into action in a manner that is respectful of others (and hopefully kind to others).

i don't think it is ignorant to think this way having not read the book and i don't think reading the book is necessary....
there is more to 'it' than just reading the book.

and again, this is the book in question.

does it not imply or say that eve was created from adams rib?
that god created all things? in 7 days?
that we have sin cause of what adam and eve did?
to not lay with a person of the same sex?
jesus rose from teh dead?


i know enough....i think that physically going to church and interacting with my religious family gives me a good perspective....i can read how glorious things are in the bible all day but out here in real world land, it's not the case.
see what i mean?

if i am anywhere near the vacinity of being right on those 5 above questions that i need not read further.......
imo, that reeks of fantasy right up there with harry potter and i don't need that.

'thou shalt not tell me how to live my life'....

oh, marriage IS a contract between the state and your spouse....legally, has nothing to do with religion....people CHOOSE to get married in church so it can be 'witnessed by god' or whatever.

you apply and pay for the license at the COURT.
then you have your CHOICE of where you can get married.
then it gets notarized.

the whole deal can be done without the church if you so choose.

it is NOT a religious institution....
you don't go apply for a marriage license in church.

Show us the ark! and why is it, the pastors of almost every church I pass has the nicest car in the parking lot? All those donations add up huh?

All I can say is, if the ark exists, which I believe it doesn't (and i'm entitled to my belief) then it will prove the exaggeration applied to the stories in the bible. I think the bible is an excellent story, but I don't see it as fact.

I mean, lets say in modern day scenarios, a cop arrests a guy for suspicion of murder. Well they cannot prove he murdered anyone unless they find the body, and without the body, there is no murder, therefore you can't prove anything. Yet people are led to believe Jesus existed without proof of his dead body anywhere to be found, but people still believe it. I guess you could say, i'm a "seeing is believing" kind of guy.

Show me the ark, and prove that it was used for what they say it was used for, then I will believe the ark and the stories that follow it existed.

Boondock78 a fine post and thread, its pretty blatent they (the folks who believe dont want to see whats up there- they know there is nothing.)

ONE big thing i MUST point out, I'm always amazed how women who are religious believe theyre made out of mans spare rib. In actual fact thats a pop culture thing - it is infact the penile bone (hence humans are one of the few (quite possibly the only) mammal without a bone in their...boner but we do have an equal number of ribs. I for one will never look at a woman the same
Seriously though,christianity is hugely offensive to so many people, unless you're a white male. To me religion is just an old fashioned conspiracy for keeping people under control and an explanation for the things that couldnt be explained.

[edit on 29-7-2007 by nothingistrivial]

Originally posted by Boondock78

BUT, the turkish or armenian gov/people 'believe' it is there so they will not allow anyone up there.
what gives with that?

Mt. Ararat or whatever it is, is in Turkey?
Good, Turkey is moeslem country, why should they worry if you could find nothing there?
Who will lose if nothing is found there? The Turkey moeslems or the Christians?

What are you doing? you try to put the blame on Turkey moeslem s or what? Let me know please.

Double post! Banned!!!!!!!!!!!!



































Actually this people was not banned due to double post. This people was banned because of Atheism.

[edit on 29-7-2007 by Cibai]

Originally posted by thefatlady
At the risk of sounding foolish---we think Noah brought baby animals, maybe in some cases eggs, and we believe he brought ancestors of current day species that had not specialized into such a huge variety yet. Some evidence suggests that humans and animals had much more DNA at one time and that the individual characteristics in such huge variety we see now may be in part a result of each succeeding generation of offspring having less DNA.

Aha! So when did Noah skip over to South America to pick up those Giant Sloth eggs then? Must have been one hell of a good transit sytem back then... And who are 'We'? You keep mentioning 'We'...Christians? I think you'll find most educated christians do not take the bible literally - so you do not represent all christians, that's for sure.

J.




[edit on 29-7-2007 by jimbo999]

[edit on 29-7-2007 by jimbo999]

Boondock78,

I can't touch the ark thing, but I can tell you this.

we are in a war between good and evil

and it's pretty hard to tell the players without a scorecard. of

being able to tell the difference between the fake Christians and the real ones,

I guess that can only be seen by a believer, who has figured out the lie.

and I can tell you, the fakes are in power. but that's about it for now.


wish I had more time to elaborate.
good luck putting the pieces together.

I am not a Christian, but I do understand the Bible contains both historical fact and metaphors. Basically, the metaphors exist to help us (humanity) understand ethics and morality. This is no different than the books of any other religion.

[edit on 7/29/2007 by prototism]

[edit on 7/29/2007 by prototism]

[edit on 7/29/2007 by prototism]

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Why must you atheists always see things in black and white?

The only possibilities you see are:

1. The Bible is 100% literally true
2. The Bible is 100% literally false

What a narrow-minded way of looking at things.

Why must you non-atheists always see things in black and white?

I'm a hardcore atheist (as it pertains to "god") and I still believe in a soul. I also believe the possibility that some of the bible is historical fact as well as some being mumbo jumbo for the simple mind.

What a narrow-minded way of looking at things.

Things are not black and white - you will find there are all kind of shades of grey in between the transition of the two.

Of course that is not what Christians hold dear - in fact they tend to divide things left and right in order to hold on to a strong 'egoic' belief structure. Its as if they are possessed and dont realize it (by the ego), and how ironic indeed, there is something to all of the demon possession in their belief system.

But on to topic, you cannot just divide and say this is that.
Everything consist of its opposite, and not only that, but everything is intrinsically linked to each other.

So instead of looking for a manual that is infallible or fallible (you are now in the same duality that most Christians are in), take what is there and work with what you have.

"Broaden your mind" "Broaden your view"

Peace

Dalen

[edit on 30-7-2007 by dAlen]