UK under attack, who is to blame?

The UK threat level has moved to critical (Meaning an attack is considered imminent)

As many people will now know, the past few days the UK has had at least three car bombs (2 attempted and failed, 1 successful). I think that the people in the UK are well aware that they are under attack, although the COBRA (Cabinet Office Briefing Room) has only just decided to raise the threat level (typical )

Personally I think this is yet more examples of how bad the situation is getting here. The UK government have pretty much let anyone (with no background checks) into the country over the past 10 years. Its so bad that in the 90s the French intelligence agencies use to call London 'Londistan' as they (and many others felt) it to be one of the biggest sites for fundamentalist Islam in the Western world. Of course in the 90s MI5 and SIS didn't perceive the 'Sunni Jihadists' as a major concern, perhaps they were more interested in the IRA...? Who knows.

Anyway, I just thought I'd try and get a few opinions from ATS about who people think are responsible for these attacks. I'm leaving this question rather open so people can feel free to be as extreme in their conspiracies as they want

We already live in a country where all our communications are monitored. It has been this way for many years now. To think that some "jihadis" could just "slip under the radar" is laughable..

IMO these are the result of our own intelligence services, using gullable people who bend over for a bit of money etc.

I blame the Government, purely for the fact that they have let every single person into this country regardless of background and without any security checks, fair enough to the ones that come and embrace this great nation, but those who don't should have been sent packing to where they came from, major example being abu hamza the hook handed cleric!

This country has become too Politically Correct and is now suffering the consequences, I fear it is also too late to turn things around.

i have to agree with the OP on this.

the brittish govt has been a toothless tiger when it comes to letting any tom, dick or ahmed into the uk.

shut the gates and send anyone who arrived in the last 20 years home. no questions, no arguements.

Remirah

Originally posted by Remirah
i have to agree with the OP on this.

the brittish govt has been a toothless tiger when it comes to letting any tom, dick or ahmed into the uk.

shut the gates and send anyone who arrived in the last 20 years home. no questions, no arguements.

Remirah

Not everyone surely, there are those who genuinely came here for refuge and a better life and love this country as much as we do, this country is 'Great' because of the oppurtunity here and the fact we always help out when we can. The ones that should be kicked out are the extremists and their followers and anyone associated.

Personally, I blame Britain's foreign policy. To blindly go along with Washington in the war in Iraq and to refuse to change course is unexcusable. Other European countries aren't having these kinds of terrorism problems and Britain can only expect more of the same as long as it stubbornly clings to its failed crusade in the middle east.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Personally, I blame Britain's foreign policy. To blindly go along with Washington in the war in Iraq and to refuse to change course is unexcusable. Other European countries aren't having these kinds of terrorism problems and Britain can only expect more of the same as long as it stubbornly clings to its failed crusade in the middle east.

That is in part true yes. I do think that the Iraq war hasn't helped the UK and the USA at all. I do think that another part of the problem has been 'us versus them' mentality that many Whites and Asians have developed. What we have ended up with now are parts of the UK where if a white personal goes for a walk he or she would get stabbed. The same also applies for Asians.

I hate to say it but I think a major problem is the Xenophobic, restrictive nature of Islam. The extreme rules and repression of women have isolated its believers from all other people in Britain. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (I'd jump at the chance to be proven wrong in this case).

Simply said: Hate breeds hate.

Land of hope and glory....?

Brace yourself folks, my blood pressure is rising ....fast.
My first gripe is that no referendum was offered to the British people to exercise our democratic right to vote whether or not we should have joined the European Union.
Our wonderful bigoted government had already decided that on our behalf.
In the wake of this ill concieved decision came a steady bombardment of new regulations and neo fascist euro laws that began to strategically strangle British industry and commerce. We had to go metric too!
Unchecked and unchallenged the fascists in Brussels heaped more regulation on the people of Britain.
Immigration is uncontrolled; Political correctness became ingrained into the population - yet another oppressive ideaology from the pundits in power. Immigration figures increase as every parasite and scrounger from poverish nations decide that Britain welcomes anyone skilled or unskilled and we kind Brit's will hand out financial benefits and provide acommodation to any migrant and his tribe of children, cousins and grandparents.
O.K.! folks now they are heeled in and form communties, flout our laws, and begin to radically alter the complextion of the British culture.
The lunatic fringe hide in their respective communities and plot terrorist attacks on the very nation that embraced them.
The current effort to create fear in the population thankfully did little to dent the British resolve and we can all be certain that more attempts will follow.
Ironically, on the eve of the 'England goes smoke free' smoking ban (another goverment ideology of eroding our human rights) it seems that our old school tie politicians have distorted priorities.
Power to the people......mmmm...puff...puff... my last fag of freedom has just been smoked!

Originally posted by Chupa101

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Personally, I blame Britain's foreign policy. To blindly go along with Washington in the war in Iraq and to refuse to change course is unexcusable. Other European countries aren't having these kinds of terrorism problems and Britain can only expect more of the same as long as it stubbornly clings to its failed crusade in the middle east.

That is in part true yes. I do think that the Iraq war hasn't helped the UK and the USA at all. I do think that another part of the problem has been 'us versus them' mentality that many Whites and Asians have developed. What we have ended up with now are parts of the UK where if a white personal goes for a walk he or she would get stabbed. The same also applies for Asians.

I hate to say it but I think a major problem is the Xenophobic, restrictive nature of Islam. The extreme rules and repression of women have isolated its believers from all other people in Britain. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong (I'd jump at the chance to be proven wrong in this case).

Simply said: Hate breeds hate.

As I was thinking more about my last post, I had to address the question "why is Britain being attacked and the United States is not when the United States is the principal architect of the war in Iraq?". As far as I can tell at the moment the answer has something to do with how each country assimilates or fails to assimilate its Muslim immigrants. I've been to Britain and the impression I get in contrast with America is that many Muslim immigrants in Britain do not tend to assimilate. Rather, they have their own communities which are not much different from those they left behind. In contrast, every Muslim I've ever known (with the possible exception of Black Muslims, who are disinterested in violence as a means of change) in the United States is very Westernized. Don't get me wrong, Muslim culture is not being destroyed in the United States nor do I think it should be. Instead, what I feel is happening is that the Muslims are not segregating themselves from the society at large and at the same time they are contributing things from the Middle Eastern-type music that is starting to seep into American pop to the increasingly ubiquitous influence of Mediterranean cuisine to that society. Anything that can encourage similar developments in the UK probably can't help but be positive in decreasing Islamic radicalism, in my opinion.

Originally posted by anglosaxon
Land of hope and glory....?

Brace yourself folks, my blood pressure is rising ....fast.
My first gripe is that no referendum was offered to the British people to exercise our democratic right to vote whether or not we should have joined the European Union.
Our wonderful bigoted government had already decided that on our behalf.
In the wake of this ill concieved decision came a steady bombardment of new regulations and neo fascist euro laws that began to strategically strangle British industry and commerce. We had to go metric too!
Unchecked and unchallenged the fascists in Brussels heaped more regulation on the people of Britain.
Immigration is uncontrolled; Political correctness became ingrained into the population - yet another oppressive ideaology from the pundits in power. Immigration figures increase as every parasite and scrounger from poverish nations decide that Britain welcomes anyone skilled or unskilled and we kind Brit's will hand out financial benefits and provide acommodation to any migrant and his tribe of children, cousins and grandparents.
O.K.! folks now they are heeled in and form communties, flout our laws, and begin to radically alter the complextion of the British culture.
The lunatic fringe hide in their respective communities and plot terrorist attacks on the very nation that embraced them.
The current effort to create fear in the population thankfully did little to dent the British resolve and we can all be certain that more attempts will follow.
Ironically, on the eve of the 'England goes smoke free' smoking ban (another goverment ideology of eroding our human rights) it seems that our old school tie politicians have distorted priorities.
Power to the people......mmmm...puff...puff... my last fag of freedom has just been smoked!

Well, I certainly understand and to some extent can sympathize with your opinion about political developments in Britain, but my question is can Britain reduce the influence of the outside world in the day and age of fast air travel and the internet?

Originally posted by Chupa101
UK under attack, who is to blame?

There is only one reasonable & responsible answer to your question:

The individuals who devised, financed, planned, and carried out these plots.


Beyond that, I would hold no man responsible. Place the blame where it lies- squarely on the shoulders of the people who tried to kill UK citizens.

Originally posted by Reality Hurts

Originally posted by Chupa101
UK under attack, who is to blame?

There is only one reasonable & responsible answer to your question:

The individuals who devised, financed, planned, and carried out these plots.


Beyond that, I would hold no man responsible. Place the blame where it lies- squarely on the shoulders of the people who tried to kill UK citizens.

Alright, so if slaves on a plantation go on a rampage, no one is to blame other than the slaves?

Well , they are hardly slaves are they ???????

They are scum who are trying to murder innocent people.....

Originally posted by The_Coo
Well , they are hardly slaves are they ???????

They are scum who are trying to murder innocent people.....

Does choosing a wrong way to express your anger necessarily make your anger invalid?

The timing is peculiar...right when Gordon Brown took office. He's almost being forced to keep the same line as Tony Blair...his country is under attack. If he was even considering changing course on the war on Terror, that'll have to wait.

I wonder who would profit or be in interested in that?

Originally posted by Soraia
The timing is peculiar...right when Gordon Brown took office. He's almost being forced to keep the same line as Tony Blair...his country is under attack. If he was even considering changing course on the war on Terror, that'll have to wait.

I wonder who would profit or be in interested in that?

At first I agreed with you Soraia, but it's looking less and less like this was an inside job. I hardly bet you could get someone to volunteer to pose as a Muslim terrorist and get burned half to death just because the government thought people weren't scared enough.

Though, it's not inconceivable that the government could have goaded Muslims into doing it and provided them with the means.

If they really feel so strongly about whats happening in Iraq for example then they should go there and fight the enemy as they see them.....those carrying out attacks in Britain live and dwell among their potential victims and will only make things worse for the ordinary Muslim on the street.

They may well strike fear and terror into the public in the short term but the law abiding Muslim population will be the biggest losers in the long run.

Originally posted by The_Coo
If they really feel so strongly about whats happening in Iraq for example then they should go there and fight the enemy as they see them.....those carrying out attacks in Britain live and dwell among their potential victims and will only make things worse for the ordinary Muslim on the street.

They may well strike fear and terror into the public in the short term but the law abiding Muslim population will be the biggest losers in the long run.

Which do you think is harder, attacking Britain or attacking British troops in Iraq? My money is on the latter.

Originally posted by The_Coo
If they really feel so strongly about whats happening in Iraq for example then they should go there and fight the enemy as they see them.....those carrying out attacks in Britain live and dwell among their potential victims and will only make things worse for the ordinary Muslim on the street.

They may well strike fear and terror into the public in the short term but the law abiding Muslim population will be the biggest losers in the long run.

Exactly, and I hope many people see this, muslims are the ones who are going to be the worse off with all this pathetic stupid terrorist attacks. Muslims are the ones who have to go out and fear ignorant individuals in the puplic,

How would you christians like it if christian terrorists went about and bombed civilians and claimed it to be in the name of YOUR religion.

These terorist arent real muslims, they go against EVERYTHING islam stands for, they are dellusional individuals, who ruin muslim lives.

Terrorists are the biggest enemy to muslims more than anyone else.

There are beautful peacefull women out there, who choose to wear a scarf, but they are becoming scared of going out, because of the way people stare at them.

[edit on 30-6-2007 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by The_Coo
If they really feel so strongly about whats happening in Iraq for example then they should go there and fight the enemy as they see them.....those carrying out attacks in Britain live and dwell among their potential victims and will only make things worse for the ordinary Muslim on the street.

They may well strike fear and terror into the public in the short term but the law abiding Muslim population will be the biggest losers in the long run.

Exactly, and I hope many people see this, muslims are the ones who are going to be the worse off with all this pathetic stupid terrorist attacks. Muslims are the ones who have to go out and fear ignorant individuals in the puplic,

How would you christians like it if christian terrorists went about and bombed civilians and claimed it to be in the name of YOUR religion.

These terorist arent real muslims, they go against EVERYTHING islam stands for, they are dellusional individuals, who ruin muslim lives.

Terrorists are the biggest enemy to muslims more than anyone else.

This MAY be what's going on in the minds of the terrorists: we will win because we're tougher than you. I'll explain. I've heard the saying more than once that "Muslims will win because infidels love life and Muslims love death".
If this is true, then the fighting spirit of the Muslim is necessarily stronger. Also, although the official projections that I've seen don't bear this out (except perhaps in Europe and definitely not in Russia, where Islam will be the dominant religion by 2030) , Muslims may believe that they'll win the population game, that within the next 100 years or so they will be the global majority religion because of their very high birthrate. These two things may coalesce in the mind of an extremist to give them a sense of bravado.