Suicide...For a Reason?

***Maybe they have uncovered a secret that was so relieving or so horrifying that they took life into their own hands. You have to have some strength, you must admit, to die***

I agree that in some case it could be true, that people has discovered something so scary that he Could't take it anymore, But, in some case IT could be a disguised murder, Hereditary problem, depression, financial problem.... So I think that those kill themselve because they discovered something are a minority!

To be back on topic a little, though..........
When I was in the military we had to have 'suicide awareness training' every freakin year (believe it or not). Their contention is that anyone has it in them to kill themselves.
The wrong set of events or circumstances at the wrong time, and anyone is prone to suicide.

I think thats very true.

After a lot of careful thought and deliberation, I've come to realize a lot about my life right now.

Beleive it or not, but a lot of these thoughts run parallel with what liblam has been saying in his posts.

It is now a lot easier for me to spot all the control systems and other bull# that everyone is brought up with, but one question is left unanswered...why.

With all my research, I haven't been able to find out what or who is behind all of it...but if the posts in this thread have shown any indication, maybe it's better left untouched...the realizations I've made about this life alone sent me into a downward spiral of depression, and that's just from seeing all that's wrong with this world.

Well, not much else to really say...If I ever get my drive for knowledge back up , my pursuit for the truth may continue, but i've lost all motivation...on top of that I don't really have much else to go on, but that's a different story . I'm hoping there are others like me that took info in this thread to another level, starting to question all that's around them in hopes of drilling down to the truth. Unfortunately the path is full of deceit, and not the easiest to find.

Anyways enough ranting for me, I need some damn sleep...

Well, not to rip off Neitchze or anything (maybe I spelled his name right this time.......dunno),
but I think you sort of come to the conclusion eventually that truth itself , at least as far as reality as we know it is concerned, is an illusion.
Along with everything else that you think is 'right in front of you' but isnt.

What has been said in this thread has definately got me thinking, and its regained my interest in some of the more abstract thoughts that I used to have.
So far, heres what I have, based on my past many days of pondering the subject:

The way an individual sees reality is based largely in part on experiences. They determine how you 'see' the world. That being said, concepts like 'truth' and 'real' become sort of vague, because they both can vary greatly from individual to individual.
From birth, you spend a while trying to figure out how to 'percieve'. Maybe very young babies arent even self aware (yet).

Its my opinion so far that if reality is built on how each individual learns to see it, and it can vary (sometimes a great deal) from person to person. Then, it must be an illusion overall. Whats real is only measured by what a person truly believes, and people crazier than I am believe all sorts of things. Does that make it any less real? No. In their reality, those things, although outlandish for me, are definitely real. Therefore, it is a seperate reality from the one I see, and it could be said that its another reality entirely. This challenges the 'normal' definitions of reality as being just one reality that everybody sees.
That being said, reality is an illusion.
Maybe our consciousnesses are 'plugged' into these bodies, and our brains are actually limiters, not enablers in perception.
I dunno. Hope Im not rambling too much. This is a new theory for me, for the most part, so I cant articulate it as well as I would like without sounding like a lunatic.
But hopefully it came across ok?



[Edited on 14-1-2004 by DjNothing]

Suicide I think is when you feel like you can't go on, or there's no escape that you can find. I think it's far too intermingled with depression to consider that in general suicides are from the revelation of some great secret. You have the heavens gate etc. that believe they continued on with aliens so "religious" suicide is different in that respect, there isn't a secret, they just considered their current forms inconsequential. And I guess there's the honour suicides of the Samurai, ninjas and the like which I think many people would agree, to a lesser extent, is true for the majority - preferable to a life, or whats left of it, of pain (whether mental or physical - torture, terminal disease, worthlessness).

Conclusion for me - suicide is a humans unnatural response to either a worthless or terrible life.

Question for Lilblam - Does your theory on life have any thing to do with solipsism?

i enjoyed reading lilblam's posts alot. i think everybody in a way is both distressed and excited at the prosepct of this one day discovery of a universal truth or lie or whatever lilblam did or did not experience. the only thing that has bugged me is that lilblam talks at length on how traumatic and life changing this experience has been. however on various other posts on this website he/she doesnt seem(as far as i have read) to mention this experience or draw on it for any comments lilblam has had.

by no means am i saying lilblam is wrong or not telling the truth, infact i want to believe you and some of what you have to say lilblam is great stuff and i love reading it, i just had my one question. if it is so shocking and so life affirming why have you ignored it on other posts?

on another point, why do people associate suicide, or people in comas, or dying people etc, as people coming to an end or people in pain. this might be the introduction period to what lies ahead for all of us. just a thought, and no i do not believe in god or any form of religion

Just felt this was an appropriate thread to mention this. Also, a rather spontaneous decision to bring that stuff up. I wouldn't lie about something like that, but also I couldn't prove to you that I'm not lying, so take it with a grain of salt.

Why have I not brought this up in other threads? I have, in small pieces. I haven't mentioned my emotional response to it, but the raw information in small pieces here and there, yes.

The thing is, I'm only 19 yrs old, and I still do live with my family, and DO go to college and also have 2 jobs... and therefore I retain my sense of sanity, as there are sane people around me for support, and because otherwise I wouldn't be talking to you here now either.

But this has brought an unbelievable amount of problems and ridicule in my FAMILY alone, the people I trust most and am closest to. Well was anyway, since because of this I'm like an ant inside a beehive.. out of place in my own family. I feel like that absolutely with anyone now, and I no longer have any "friends" as people understand the term. I have more or less people I occasionally "associate" with out of necessity at work etc, but my mindset has been so drastically altered that I find small talk and typical chit chat or whatever people do when they just "hang out" absolutely ludicrous and senseless.

What really hangs like a rock over my head is the absolute ignorance of people, how "truth" doesn't interest them at all. They only care about fun, movies, parties, sex, dating, videogames, reality shows, the latest computers, sports (big one...)... etc. Imagine me coming up to ANYONE and trying to explain that all of this has been purposefully created to distract them and keep them busy. Don't forget, the act of constantly being kept busy is the number one thing that allows the intense state of suggestability that permeates all levels of our society. It keeps people blind, ignorant, and without even a desire anymore for truth. If someone questions something, there will always come along a Preacher (not just religious, just anyone) who will set them straight. All these are only a small portion of the variety of ways that 3rd density humans on this planet are controlled.

I imagine if I started saying this, I'd soon find myself in a nice soft room with a straight jacket and 3 pounds of medication in my skull. I'd be going on major paranoia, schizophrenia, and just outright insane. I'm sure they have 35 more clinical conditions they can apply to me, they've been very busy coming up with clinical conditions for people who might open their mouth about even a hint of "truth" about our reality.

I have noticed that it is possible to pass that off as FICTION, but at least suggest the idea of its possibility in such movies like The Matrix and books like Harry Potter (there's another post about Harry Potter books somewhere on this board that links to a montalk.net article about it.. suggest you read it).

The only thing I have left to do, is to finish my 3rd density lessons and get out. Period. Fun/Life/etc is all subjective and relative. I can extract fun out of absolutely anything, and so I do, as it does keep me relatively safe from chronic depression. Everything now seems humorous to me, as it were.

Anyways, don't expect me to reiterate this story each time I post something somewhere, that'd be rather pointless and annoying wouldn't you say? Besides, the humorous approach to life is far more enlightening, as things are only as sad and serious as you want them to be. But you'd be laughing too if you saw this deceptive world through my eyes, it's like watching a cartoon and living it... everyone is convinced of the commonly-circulated lies so much, it is almost unbelievable.

[Edited on 20-1-2004 by lilblam]

I'll ask about this for you, but first my own thoughts.
There is what, 2 reasons a person would wish to die.
~they know that something better is waiting for them (or are just very courious)
~something in this life is just too hard to bear (or shall I say, they think it will be and are afraid or just tired of tring)

Those who know there is something better on the other side, there have been alot of mass suicides for the religious/occult rational. Then, at least for those in my belief system - many can not commite murder, even to themselves, because that would in effect keep you from the destination you intend.

Those who give up, are frighten - what can we say? Weather it be a life changing secret they've been privy too, a situation they are afraid they can't deal with or what ever...pretty much puts them in the same catigory.

I think that suicide commiters were driven to there last inch of patience that they just couldnt take life any more and all these problems. For one i think its kind of dumb, because if there is a heaven and hell you killed some one your going to hell for enternity muawahahahahahha. Suicide is stupid . Cant take life no more too bad take it.

Well there are a number of reasons someone could/would commit suicide - but as to what this thread is looking for - I think I have a little story.

My aunts exhusband was in the airforce and then the CIA. He was a spy, plain and simple. Well, about 2 years back he went "away on buisness" for a while - a few months I believe. He came back a COMPLETELY different person. Before he was a great husband/father, outgoing, funny, active ect ect ect. Well he got back, and from that moment on was an alcoholic, was reclusive, didn't go to his daughters school activities, stoped being social in general. Apparently, from what I'm told, he was rarely away for more then a month at a time, but this time he was gone for like 3 or 4. Anyways, he quite the CIA about a year ago as he became more and more paranoid. He started taking real low level jobs that paid under the table that he was completely overqualified for (the guy had been in the Top Gun School, done spy work ect) so that as he said "they" couldn't keep track of his money.

Any ways, he ended up commiting suicide in october. But the real scewed up part was how he did it. Most people would shoot themselves, jump of a high building, take a bunch of sleeping pills or what ever. Well he stabbed himslef with a knife. not the quickest or least painfull ways to go out.

This didn't sit well with me - it was an overnight change, and I am convinced that whatever he was working on while he was away changed him. What it was I can't say - he never talked about work with anyone. But I have a feeling he got into something that disturbed him to the point that he either A) had an experience he couldn't handle and had a mental breakdown or something or B) was involved with something that he did not want to be involved with anymore and was rightfully paranoid or C) a combination of the two.

Originally posted by whenisthend
Cant take life no more too bad take it.

Why? You must be pretty weak to put up with crap you don't like

I used to be suicidal. I was never depressed ot in pain or anything like that and I only ever told one person about it. It was between the ages of "as young as I can remember" to about 16. I always wanted to die just so that I didn't have to be "here". I wasn't upset in any way about it at all it just irritated me that I had to live here. Obviously I never did it, I never had the guts, heres a phrase you might like: I was too weak to kill myself.

Maybe it was because I was kid. Im not suicidal anymore but I won't go out of my way to prevent my death. I just don't care about living here.

I think of it as choosing a house to live in. If you don't like the house you live in you move out. Simple as that.

And Lilblam, dude, I used to think I was crazy for thinking like that... but you just described how I think perfectly...

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Faceless]

Anyone can live another day, it takes real guts to kill yourself. I have actually felt physically so bad, so tired, so groggy and in a stupor that I wished I could lay down in the dirt and just be absorbed. The fact is I don't need to eat any sugar whatsoever, so I feel halfway good. You cannot describe what that feels like to people who don't have sugar problems. And I would not blame anyone facing a long jail sentence for killing themselves. Life sucks enough already.


I have found it strange that so many rock and roll artist have died somewhat early deaths. I wonder if they found out some strange truth and couldn't cope with it?

"I know why she did it!!!"

Hahahaha! There is a movie, the name escapes me, but a movie about these 3 crazy sisters and their crazy mother who killed herslef...and the cat. The cat and the mom comit suicide together by hanging, the cat had its own little noose, isnt that sweet?

Well anyways, the tabloids come in and the story is in every tabloid across thw country and the girls are infamously known as the daughter of that crazy woman who killed herself and the cat. Well the girls grow up and one of the sisters goes crazy and tries to kkill herself.

First she tries to hang herself from the chandeleir, but it breaks off the wall and won't come off her neck so she drags it around the house, tries to slit her wrists, but the knife is dull. THen she decides to stick her head in the oven and gas herself to death. And she starts screaming "I know why she did it!" She jumps up, ready to live again, and knocks herself out on the top of the stove. But alas, her sisters find her, drag her outside (chandeleir round her neck and all) and finally she stops screaming " I know why she did it" and tells them why: THe mom killed the cat because she was scared to do it alone.

And somehow everyone lives happily ever after.

Weird, and slightly irrelevant, i know. Sorry.

Originally posted by lilblam
I imagine if I started saying this, I'd soon find myself in a nice soft room with a straight jacket and 3 pounds of medication in my skull. I'd be going on major paranoia, schizophrenia, and just outright insane. I'm sure they have 35 more clinical conditions they can apply to me, they've been very busy coming up with clinical conditions for people who might open their mouth about even a hint of "truth" about our reality.

[Edited on 20-1-2004 by lilblam]

Don't be surprised if you do. What you said sounds so familiar to what I tell people all the time. Here's alist of things that I've earned by doing such
-Lost friends
-Reputation as the crazy weird kid
-Laughed off
-Feared by some because they seriously think about what I'm saying and realize it could completely uproot their way of life
-Been given a "disorder" or a number

Yeah, let's just say it sucks a little.

But movies and TV's aren't the only place people turn for some sort of spoon-fed reality that they don't even think about, but blindly accept without even using that gray blob of dilluted mess inside theirs skulls. Like you said, turn to any preacher and his word instantly outweighs mine right? He's right and I'm wrong? My friend came up to me and said he talked to his youth minister and the youth minister said I was a blasphemous person and if I didn't ask for forgiveness for what I said and accept Jesus as my savior then I wouldnot be saved.

Thanks for meeting me first before telling me my ultimate fate.

Everyone has their superior figure, someone to refute any idea someone else might have. Why? Because they can't do it themselves and they are simply scared to death of different thought. Well, how then, would people accept an idea like The Matrix of Harry Potter? Because its more than a 15 year old kid in your geometry class or a 19 year old college kid with ideas. It's huge multi-million dollar corporation or a phenomena, something you can cling on to because its bigger than yourself.

Equality? You'd be surprised how, truthfully, very few people want it. People want to have a bigger idea, a bigger group, a bigger, stronger force than any individual idea they might have. Why think by your own doctrine and have your own theory on spiritual experiences to discuss with other individual thinkers when you could go have pizza and coke at your church's youth group meeting. That way, you're somehow "saved" and you somehow become superior than anyone with their own opinion.

Killing two birds with one stone, you could say.

How does this tie into suicide?

Well, when every single person you once confided in turns away from you, forms this band against you when you won't join them, and basically forgets about YOU as the person and only focusses on YOU as the threat. The threat to their superiority.

Alot of you have said that maybe people commit suicide because they know something so amazing or explosive that they can't handle it, or want to keep it safe. I don't doubt it.

Maybe the time was not right, maybe it was too late. But for whatever reason, they kow something, and are sick of being inferior, and their fight for REAL EQUALITY is what kills them.

I must say, you know a reason I post on ATS? Because its much easier to speak without the dirty looks and rolling eyes.

Ok, so everybody might be doing to me anyway...but at least I can't see it

And I think someone out there knows what I mean. Hopefully.

Originally posted by Scat
And I think someone out there knows what I mean. Hopefully.

I do...

Suicide is up to the person to decide if they want to or not, but one should not take that road if it is to avoid pain. For if a person chooses this, he/she will probably have to do it all over again. (reincarnate)

Lilblam....
I think i know where you are coming from, but you are taking it all wrong. It is not as simple as time and all that is physical is just an illusion.

Even when we in our collective conciousness created what exists by thinking it, it is still reality. Every being has a right to choose what to do and all sentient beings in the universe have a right to defend themselves. This is why even those beings people call angels and demons also fight.

It is true that in order to understand this you have to experience much which is spiritual. People normally learn things better by experience instead of by being taugh, and this applies more to the spiritual.

People find the truth, that they are ready for in this life. Truth in itself is relative, what one person might think is true, might not be for so for another. I could tell you what for me is truth, but some will not agree and some others will choose to see another truth. In the end what we think we will find, after we go from this physical plane, we will find.

Every person has the right to choose what to believe, and it is no man's job to tell another what to think about the spiritual. I will tell you this much.

This is what I have learnt thru science.

All of us, our spirits, our physical forms, the animals around us, even inanimate objects are made up of energy (wave) and particle.(matter) Now, the more complex a lifeform is the more complex this relation between particle and wave in our compossition.

Light itself is composed of photons, photons posses some of the qualities of matter but it remains mostly in wave form. Light is electromagnetic radiation (moving electrons) while all matter is made of atoms. Atoms are made up, as everyone knows, of electrons (which always retain both particle and wave properties) protons and neutrons. Both energy and particles retain qualities of each other.

Science has been able to slowly scratch the surface of this phenomenon. Through Quantum Physics scientists have found something that presently it escapes them, because it goes against all the laws that science has been discovering slowly, over time.

I will try to keep it simple, because quantum mechanics can be very complex, and i think we are too involved in trying to find out what is the smallest form, or what some people say the origin of everything.

The first time that science got a hint of what is going on is when they realized that electrons can manifest themselves as wave forms and as particles. At first it was believed that it was an error. It is impossible for electrons to manifest themselves as both energy (wave) and particle(matter) but slowly with a new science (Quantum mechanics) it was discovered that it is not only possible, but it is true. Electrons do manifest themselves, sometimes as wave forms (energy) sometimes as particles. (matter)

Supposedly some ancient cultures say that we have gotten lost along the way, and we have forgotten who we really are, as our energies embodied the physical forms we are in right now. We have been in these forms for a long time and because of the egos we have created we lost the identity of our true selves.

It is not that time does not exists. Time is relative, it is a construct of our collective minds.

I have also been in a search for truth all my life, because of the experiences I have had since I was a child. The search for this truth has taken me in all sorts of directions, the only thing I have never done is take drugs. I have never needed drugs to have spiritual experiences and i do not advice anyone to do this, but once again we all find which path we must follow in life and what to believe in.

We are here to experience this life as what we are now.

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Muaddib]

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Muaddib]

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Muaddib]

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by Muaddib]

platos allegory of the cave

need i say more?

Liblam:
I was thinking about how everyone i know is always so busy and how they never really get a chance to sit down and think about life. Then i thought about how i am not so busy and i actually get a chance to think about life, and when i think about it i just get really depressed and then i think that it would just be better not knowing. Then i realize that i want to know. Overall the whole point to my post is to ask you/anyone is it better not knowing, is ignorance bliss?

Personally, I'd rather not know a too much.

Whats that quote: "A little knowledge intoxicates, and only by drinking deep can one be sober again".

So if you only learn a little bit, you yearn so bad for more... and the search can easily take over your life.

But also, since we are such fragile and miniscule consciousness', we can never know as much as we'd like to.. So after learning a little, you get depressed that you can never know the whole picture.. Just little glimpses here and there... Kinda gets tiring.



Im not really worried about my existence in this world.. Everything here is so temporary and insubstatial.. I dont really care to know much about this place. I just care about what happens when I die.

Enh.
/myopinion/

[Edited on 6-4-2004 by shidge.]

Lilbalm, have you ever considered that this "truth" - this "reality" you've "discovered" is the result of an overactive and over-paranoid mind? You come across as intelligent, and, as someone who has an "above average IQ," I know intelligent minds think up some crazy things. Maybe this "truth" and "reality" you've discovered is simply you creating something and wanting to have your own private thing you believe in. Maybe this fruitless 24/7 search for some ground breaking, life changing "truth" led you to metaphorically multiply something by 0 and get something other than 0 - no matter what you do, its always going to be 0. Maybe, just maybe, you became sick of no results from your search, so you manipulated it so in some nonsensical way it became something other than "0."

You present yourself in a calm, intelligent, "I don't care if you believe me" manner, yet I think you do care. If you did not care, you would not dangle this "carrot" in front of our noses. Its like the ATS readers are cats and you're holding what appears to be the fish in front of their noses. You nudge the cats around on a wild goose (or fish, in this case) chase and eventually, after fruitless searching for this fish, they realize there are no fish and the fish you were holding was just a plush toy.

Maybe ATS is your way to get that attention you seem to be lacking underneath your "I dont care" attitude (as evidenced by your last post:

I feel like that absolutely with anyone now, and I no longer have any "friends" as people understand the term. I have more or less people I occasionally "associate" with out of necessity at work etc, but my mindset has been so drastically altered that I find small talk and typical chit chat or whatever people do when they just "hang out" absolutely ludicrous and senseless.

What really hangs like a rock over my head is the absolute ignorance of people, how "truth" doesn't interest them at all. They only care about fun, movies, parties, sex, dating, videogames, reality shows, the latest computers, sports (big one...)... etc. Imagine me coming up to ANYONE and trying to explain that all of this has been purposefully created to distract them and keep them busy. Don't forget, the act of constantly being kept busy is the number one thing that allows the intense state of suggestability that permeates all levels of our society. It keeps people blind, ignorant, and without even a desire anymore for truth. If someone questions something, there will always come along a Preacher (not just religious, just anyone) who will set them straight. All these are only a small portion of the variety of ways that 3rd density humans on this planet are controlled.

To me this says it all. I am no psychologist, but I'm willing to bet that you aren't very social in real life and may not have the best luck making friends or getting along with people. You feel like just another face in the crowd and someone that no one gives a second glance to, so ATS is your way to get noticed - your way to get attention.

I'm really sorry to go off and rant like this, but as a message board visitor for the past 6 or 7 years, this is a classic case of "Attention whore" syndrome - much the same as John Titor.

Anyway, this is my way of denying ignorance. Denying the ignorance of believing someone who makes it seem like we are all ignorant and he is the king of ignorance denying.