[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

Originally posted by Bunch
COPIES?? What happens to the originals that he claims to have taken too in his original story? Archived and censored for use but not classified. Ok ISAAC whatever you say.

[edit on 2-8-2007 by Bunch]

We discussed this several times. In Isaac's story, he says he took hundreds of copies and a FEW originals.

Originally posted by pjslug
We discussed this several times. In Isaac's story, he says he took hundreds of copies and a FEW originals.

Why you try to overlook what he is saying. His words now are that he took copies, in his original story he says he took copies and originals, those are he's words and they should not been overlook. He just trying to deflect attention for the holes that his original story has IMO, and we should not overlook that.

[edit on 2-8-2007 by Bunch]

[edit on 3-8-2007 by Bunch]

Originally posted by chunder
No, I think you are dead right and I made the comment at the time that they had been remarkably quick in getting the T shirts printed etc.

They may have just been quick and quite clever in calling the copywright bluff but it did seem like a lot of merchandise for something not a huge amount of people would really be interested in.

It would be interesting to see how many days since they were released it took them to market merchandise and whether that was feasible.

Cafe Press is an online, VIRTUAL STORE. NOTHING has been "manufactured or printed" unless someone actually BOUGHT one of the shirts or other products.

It takes less than 15 minutes to establish a Cafe Press store and present "products". Don't waste time on this angle, you can create your own "drone merch." in minutes.

Cafe Press has a great business model and they spend NO MONEY until they get paid.

Springer...

[edit on 8-2-2007 by Springer]

I don't know who is more entertaining: ISAAC or the distinguished posters here? I can tell more about your personalities from perusing your attacks, defenses, and debating skills than I can discern what the hell ISAAC is all about. ISAAC must be laughing his ass off...

I am learning, amigos.

Originally posted by klatunictobarata
I don't know who is more entertaining: ISAAC or the distinguished posters here? I can tell more about your personalities from perusing your attacks, defenses, and debating skills than I can discern what the hell ISAAC is all about. ISAAC must be laughing his ass off...

I am learning, amigos.

Ummmm, OK then...

S...

Originally posted by pjslug
Please don't come back to our thread and be a smart ass unless you are asking for Springer to ban you a third and final time.

You see, the above quote is not needed, off subject, and you should be banned for going off subject. It is against the guidelines.

Also, whos thread is it? You say "our thread".

You see Springer, how can you allow this nonsense? He is antagonizing me, and this should NOT be allowed.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

As far as I am concerned, he has broken guidelines and it should be looked at.

:::back on subject:::

Isaac replied to criticism in those e-mails, this is a definite sign of "trying to convince" someone into believing. Thats a sign of someone trying to save a hoax.



[edit on 3-8-2007 by 11 11]

Originally posted by Bunch
...He just trying to deflect attention for the holes that his original story has IMO, and we should not overlook that.

I agree. It's funny how much time he wasted by stating the obvious:

Originally posted by Isaac
"Also, let's not forget that paperwork only proves so much. I'll be the first to agree that everything I've provided could be faked..."

"The information I've shared is very unlikely to change the world..."

"Of course the manual doesn't look anything like typical government and military documents."

How convenient.

If he believes the pictures are fake, I certainly can't do or say anything to prove otherwise.

He can. He has the original photographs and a lot more documents. That statement alone proves that he's full of BS. And don't tell me that the guy is afraid of the evil MIB, because if he was he wouldn't have leaked any documents in the first place.

Originally posted by Bunch
because really it has not been determined that all this is tie together (chad, rajman, ISAAC, etc.) if you conclude different that's fine, I really have not heard a good explanation on that one yet so please fill me in on that aspect.

It has been determined they all tie together.

The Chad / Anonymous pictures show the basic rings from the Inventory Report
The Rajman pics show the additional part with the 3 spikes.
The Stephen / Ty pics show the language primer.

They were all distributed before the Inventory report and language primer were available.

The Rajman pic has been shown to have terminal issues with it's veracity (disprove otherwise if you can).

If the Rajman (or any other) pics are fake then so must be the Isaac documents - at least within the context of the claims Isaac made.

If you want to pick the logic apart to reach another conclusion feel free but's let hear it - if you want to discuss other aspects that's your perogative, we have had 160 pages of it after all so another few won't go amiss - just when the hypotheticals have been exhausted again come back to the Rajman pic, as it is the one single item that has been shown, in detail, to be false and that has yet to be given a plausible alternative.

PS Springer - thanks for the info regarding the merchandising.

[edit on 3-8-2007 by chunder]

I have to say that chunder's overview/review above is EXCELLENT!

Everyone "new" to this topic should read it, IMHO...

Springer...

[edit on 8-3-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by 11 11
Isaac replied to criticism in those e-mails, this is a definite sign of "trying to convince" someone into believing. Thats a sign of someone trying to save a hoax.
[edit on 3-8-2007 by 11 11]

How does that make a 'definite sign'?
He could be trying to open peoples eyes or perhaps warn people of a threat. Are there not other possiblities?

Originally posted by PsykoOps
How does that make a 'definite sign'?
He could be trying to open peoples eyes or perhaps warn people of a threat. Are there not other possiblities?

Well, in order to open someones eyes you must first convince him that what you say is true. Let's not get caught in semantics here.

I do agree with you in that he's not trying to convince the skeptics. He seems more focused in keeping his base of believers happy. He doesn't add anything new to the table, but he spends a lot of time trying to explain the why of a lot of inconsistencies in his story and his documents.

His entire e-mail can be resumed like this:
"Hi, I'm Isaac. I don't care about the skeptics, but for the believers, here's some stuff that makes my story seem more plausible."

I also as springer wanted to say great post from chunder above. I've been lurking in this thread for some time now. Everything has pretty much been covered and unless something new arrives it's about come to the end of the road for me.

Hm,

it's a bit off-topic, but technically it can be a worth tool (if available) to check if a jpeg is "real". Following the drone discussion threads here and elsewhere, I came up with this article @ wired.com about a recent presentation hold at the Black Hat Conference 2007:

... Using a program he wrote (and provided on the conference CD-ROM) Krawetz could print out the quantization tables in a JPEG file (that indicate how the image was compressed) and determine the last tool that created the image -- that is, the make and model of the camera if the image is original or the version of Photoshop that was used to alter and re-save the image.
...
But more interesting were the examples Krawetz gave of al Qaeda images. Krawetz took an image from a 2006 al Qaeda video of Ayman al-Zawahiri (above right), a senior member of the terrorist organization. The image shows al-Zawahiri sitting in front of a desk and banner with writing on it. But after conducting his error analysis Krawetz was able to determine that al-Zawahiri's image was superimposed in front of the background -- and was most likely videotaped in front of a black sheet.

Article here: Researcher's Analysis of al Qaeda Images Reveals Surprises

Picture comparisons, sourcecode and PDF are available via url above. Maybe someone found a worth tool/algorithm to end the discussion about hoax or not a hoax regarding jpeg images.

cheers c.

Chunder

Another interesting side note. The T-Shirt on Comboutique has been replaced with one with Open Minds Forum Logo. I also received an email from Comboutique that the design had been pulled from the site. Both in English and French. Is it possible the actual owner of the design got involved? They did not however reveal the name. Then again, maybe they were just playing it safe?

Originally posted by Blaine91555
Chunder

Another interesting side note. The T-Shirt on Comboutique has been replaced with one with Open Minds Forum Logo. I also received an email from Comboutique that the design had been pulled from the site. Both in English and French. Is it possible the actual owner of the design got involved? They did not however reveal the name. Then again, maybe they were just playing it safe?

I got a mail too. The forum admin said that we were somehow trying to prevent disclosure by shutting down their store. The fact is that their "disclosure" became a scam the moment they put a price tag on it.

They think that they can use the artwork because Isaac says that the diagrams where made by aliens. I suppose I could use the same reasoning and start making t-shirts with the bat suit, since it's clearly Bruce Wayne's property. Hell, I'll go out right now and claim some land for myself, and since I can't see any fences or the owner it must be OK.
Isaac story will remain a story until proven otherwise. OMF can't use it just because they believe him.

It seems that they have started a new store on a different site. I already have the answer I wanted, so I'll desist on sending another e-mail. It would be fun if a lot of people started cashing in on the drone, making the tiny UFO market so saturated that the real hoaxer remained penniless, wondering what he did wrong.

Originally posted by Farnswoth
They think that they can use the artwork because Isaac says that the diagrams where made by aliens. I suppose I could use the same reasoning and start making t-shirts with the bat suit, since it's clearly Bruce Wayne's property. Hell, I'll go out right now and claim some land for myself, and since I can't see any fences or the owner it must be OK.
Isaac story will remain a story until proven otherwise. OMF can't use it just because they believe him.

It seems that they have started a new store on a different site. I already have the answer I wanted, so I'll desist on sending another e-mail. It would be fun if a lot of people started cashing in on the drone, making the tiny UFO market so saturated that the real hoaxer remained penniless, wondering what he did wrong.

Excellent analogy! I can't believe that they are actually saying that the purpose of selling T-shirts is for disclosure. What a crock of B.S. They are trying to make money off of something that doesn't belong to them, and if it does than they are just perpetrating a hoax and it has nothing to do with disclosure. Either way, what they are doing is completely unethical.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Another interesting side note. The T-Shirt on Comboutique has been replaced with one with Open Minds Forum Logo. I also received an email from Comboutique that the design had been pulled from the site. Both in English and French. Is it possible the actual owner of the design got involved?

I doubt it, you can find one of the CARET OM designs for sale here, and it doesn't take a lot of looking to find.

Isaac would have to identify himself to claim proprietorship of the CARET materials. As I mentioned in a previous thread, in order to do that, he would also have to admit it was a hoax since, according to him, the text, designs, and photos are property of the government. That's why I thought it presumptuous at the least that he named usage criteria for the materials in his cover letter. He can do no such thing with "stolen" items.

And that goes for anyone else of course. Anyone who cares to claim ownership must prove it, which debunks it at the same time--unless it belongs to the government, of course.

[edit on 8/3/2007 by yuefo]

Until this returning Banned member has starightened out some past misrepresntations, other typical "bollocks" they will not get a voice here.









[edit on 8-5-2007 by Springer]

Originally posted by jeddyhi2
Do you think people really want to buy a shirt with the primer on it?

If people will buy these, people will buy anything. I'm sure you know exactly what kind of people populate sites like ATS, and your own forum.

Originally posted by jeddyhi2
Thanks for everything. You didn't prevent "disclosure", you prevented the possible outing of Isaac as I see it. Think about that for a minute.......D'OH.

Dumb plan, do you really think someone who's released the images and the language primer into the public domain is really going to enforce their copyright? Please, are you trying to be the Internet equivalent of The Secret Seven? What would you have done if someone attempted to purchase the merchandise? Turned them away? I think it's disgusting that you have taken these images and attempted to make some money off this meme, and if the people here at ATS had anything to do with stopping it, I for one am very glad.

Originally posted by admin Co-Administrator OM

BTW, there is hardly any 'profit' on these items for us. And any we do get is going on the server costs for our new www.openmindsforum.com so we can move away from the 'google' ads enforced through proboards.

[edit on 4/8/07 by Implosion]