[HOAX] Isaac CARET - Drones [HOAX]

Originally posted by chunder
Hi,

1. I disagree they would be taken down in minutes, if at all, even if real. The same documents were sent to C2C and the website could have been set up by someone other than Isaac anyway.

2. What incorrect details about circumstances ? What bad CGI - so bad it took so long to persuade reasonable laymen ?

3. How do you know what the protocol was for the CARET programme for documentation ?


4. There are reasons that point to a creative joke - the rajman pic discrepancies as evaluated by SKF (sorry to sound like a broken record) - but those above would not, should not and have not been sufficient to convince a lot of people.


[edit on 2-8-2007 by chunder]

1. Good, your are entitled to your opinion. Basically, you don't classify information RE: alien tech only to disclose the info 20 years later because its old news. Even if they did, they would do it on their own agenda, not some retired ex-employee's agenda because he doesn't want to meet his makes with excess baggage. This, however, is my opinion.

2. the sun/shadow time issue was one. either the sun/shadow was botched up or the time at which the photo was taken was incorrect.

3. Well IF this CARET lab was real it was a, albeit an unconventional one, Gov research facility. Given that the documents were not 100% accessible to whoever did get to see them (thats why it was partly blacked out as Isaac mentioned in the LMH emails) you would assume that this means they were classified in SOME degree. Now the US mil/gov has quite strict guidelines on how this classification comes to fruition on a document. So i assume most of this because isaacs explanation in his email to LMH doesnt coincide with the Gov protocol on documentation.

4. Dude, people believe what they WANT to believe, no amount of facts and proof can change that. I recently read a story about a woman who believed that her dead son reincarnated into her cat and she communicated with him. Noone can prove she's lost her marbles and doesnt matter anyway. even when confronted with proof she'd still believe what she wants.

The thing is, Isaac was trying to prove to the world that this stuff exists. Up to now, he's done a piss-poor job of it if you ask me.

Originally posted by shadow fax
The thing is, Isaac was trying to prove to the world that this stuff exists. Up to now, he's done a piss-poor job of it if you ask me.

Yeah, so piss poor that after 3,000+ posts, a conclusion hasn't been reached yet. So piss poor that CGI professionals would recruit the guy that supposedly made these CGI images. So piss poor that no one has been able to re-create any of the drones yet. So piss poor that it's been one of the most talked about UFO phenomena on all the UFO-related forums all over the world since the end of May.

If Isaac is who he says he is (which I have my doubts now): He never tried to prove anything to anyone. Do you see Isaac posting online trying to convince the world of his experiences? He made a website with information on the primer and the research. He never tried to force his experience on anyone.

You should really get your facts straight before posting such assuming opinions in the future.

[edit on 8/2/2007 by pjslug]

Originally posted by pjslug

If Isaac is who he says he is (which I have my doubts now): He never tried to prove anything to anyone. Do you see Isaac posting online trying to convince the world of his experiences? He made a website with information on the primer and the research. He never tried to force his experience on anyone.

You should really get your facts straight before posting such assuming opinions in the future.

[edit on 8/2/2007 by pjslug]

Well actually, he posted his stuff after the photos came up and he said that his aim was to explain what people were seeing. He provided some evidence in the form scans which he explains throughout his monologue. Not only that, he (according to HIS story) didn't create those pictures, CGI or not. So the fact that they are convincing or not isn't something Isaac can take credit for, unless he did make them. That, of course, would kinda ruin his story though..

The fact is that there are no facts, just stories and pictures. Does my opinion bother you that much that you feel the incessant need to tell me that i should reassess my info before i share it with you? wow. Thanks for caring man

furthermore, i find it surprising that i explain everything ive said in the last few post, including answering your questions in which you try to refute what i say, and in the end you start getting uppity over my opinion. Not to say it wasn't predictable, but come-on.



[edit on 2-8-2007 by shadow fax]

That new picture looks SOO 'shopped its unpleasant. It looks like the 'drone' has been layered in badly by my other half, who only just recently learnt there was a cut-out tool in PS. I think even she could do a better job than that.

Rest of the picture looks fine by me however, it seems real enough; I've got plenty of similar photos that are similar in tone and vibrancy because of an overcast, yet strong-sun-behind-the-clouds type day.

But seriously, what next, flying bedpans with egg-beaters? This is someone's take on the hoax IMO, not a new drone.

it's a bug thats flying by. The guy should be happy he got such a lucky shot, at best. The lighting is fine. Hit up google and search for that museum in images.. the only weird thing is that most pictures of that place depict a rather large woman sitting on the bench to the right of the entrance..

as for PJslug: have a read here, these guys are a bunch of actual scientists!

And what's worse is that they are not only printing the diagram on the shirt, they are printing below it "www.0penmindsforum.com". It's a total disgrace.

Are you serious? Does someone have a link that shows this?

-Ry

I haven't posted here in ages. It's been fun reading the "progress" all of you have been making on this subject. While it seems like there's some movement it's at a very slow pace. I don't think there will be any conclusive variable for a very long time, if, ever. Hopefully this doesn't turn into another Titor where we're left at a cliff hanger.

So, their communication is pure speculation. I wouldn't even want to get into that. It's too hard to grasp how another sentient creature would express their thoughts onto something.

Now, what's pushing me to post is that new picture from C2C you posted pjslug. The object's quality in that image looks exactly like something I've hoaxed to test personal skill. I'm not exactly good, but, the actual finished project reminded me very much of this.



This was made by taking an image of a kite, modifying colors, cutting and pasting on the background image. Not exactly hard.

Now, another possibility? It's simply an extremely lucky shot of just what he thought it was, a dragonfly. It doesn't look mechanical at all. It just looks like a distorted image of a bug zipping by.

Anyways, carry on!

Just gonna throw this in here for someone to check out.
CBS have a new show starting October 1st called Alien in America, Missleading though the title is, its not about grays but a muslim exchange student despite this picture from the opening credits. Note the lettering.



files.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by rdube02
Are you serious? Does someone have a link that shows this?

-Ry

Originally posted by Implosion
You can find a whole range of CARET related merchandise here.

Posted a couple of pages back.

Originally posted by chunder
There are reasons that point to a creative joke - the rajman pic discrepancies as evaluated by SKF (sorry to sound like a broken record) - but those above would not, should not and have not been sufficient to convince a lot of people.
[edit on 2-8-2007 by chunder]

Wait a second, since when other people inputs do not count here. I see now a lot of the CGI crowd trying to push their angle as the only one worth pursuing.

If you want to do that fine, but do not get in the way of someone who wants to bring antoher aspect of the entire story. I think you do yourself a disservice when you only focus on just one aspect.

I have said here what my views are and always someone comes with some kind of alternate explanation, sometimes without clearly not knowing what they are talking about. If I have made my inputs if because I'm pretty sure what I'm talking about. Now I might not know what the procedures were 20 years ago, but I work with people that did work around that timeframe. An example of a conversation:
Me: "Jeez, Mr.X I'm tired of all this procedures, is that the way it was done when you where young".
Mr.X: "You have no idea, back in the day it was worst because we didnt have all the technology that we have now, back in the day it was all in paper, and searches and inspections, you have no idea"

You ask that a couple of times and you get the idea, then I feel pretty comfortable forming an opinion, and I have done it on many aspects that involve security and military which had lead me to form my opinion on the subject. That might not be enough for some of you guys, but is enough for me, if I put it here is because I think it might some people to form their opinion too.

I remember that someone said that logistics didn't count, thats the most uninformed comment that someone can make when talking about military involvement in anything. It's all about logistics. If it wasn't, then why place PACL in Sillicon Valley, to be close to what? latest printers,computers or the smartest tech guys? They could have brought those to Area 51, Wright-Patt or any other installation for that matter.

Is that kind of uninformed rationale that has push me away from this thread. I thought people here would at least analyze what is been said, but sometimes that don't happen, they just make some random explanation and move on.

You guys are doing great work, but please show some courtesy when other people are trying to bring other aspects, take the time to analyze it and don't dismiss it as nothing especially if you are not familiar with the subject.



[edit on 2-8-2007 by Bunch]

Originally posted by pjslug...Yeah, so piss poor that after 3,000+ posts, a conclusion hasn't been reached yet.

So piss poor that CGI professionals would recruit the guy that supposedly made these CGI images.

So piss poor that no one has been able to re-create any of the drones yet.

So piss poor that it's been one of the most talked about UFO phenomena on all the UFO-related forums all over the world since the end of May...

...You should really get your facts straight before posting such assuming opinions in the future...

I think that you are the one that is assuming too much.

-Who are the CGI professionals that would hire this guy? He only made a couple of renders of an inanimate object. Rendering and animating organics, now that's a challenge.

-Saladfingers did a great job recreating the drone. The believers answered by saying that anyone could replicate it, it doesn't prove anything, bla, bla.

I agree with you on that it's one of the most talked about topics in the UFO community. True or not, it's a compelling story. It's John Titor all over again, incredible story coupled with neat diagrams and pictures. I wouldn't be surprised if I find a book about the drone in the stores soon, written by anonymous of course.



Speaking about the merchandise popping up online, I sent out a couple of emails regarding Intellectual property infringement. That should help to clear things up a little.

Intellectual Property Rights page"I found an artwork on a website, it is then free of right ?
WRONG, the fact that an image is freely accessed on a website doesn't make it belong to the public domain".

[edit on 2-8-2007 by Farnswoth]

Originally posted by Farnswoth
Speaking about the merchandise popping up online, I sent out a couple of emails regarding Intellectual property infringement. That should help to clear things up a little.

Intellectual Property Rights page"I found an artwork on a website, it is then free of right ?
WRONG, the fact that an image is freely accessed on a website doesn't make it belong to the public domain".

[edit on 2-8-2007 by Farnswoth]

This would the case if the author is identified, but like i said before; the author of these images are the supposed extra terrestrial beings, 'Isaac' was merely a middle man who illegally obtained these files which were initially copied by a whole team of geniuses (ie.: not him, nor those geniuses). No earthly entity can lay claim on royalties derived from these items and if someone does whinge that their art is being bootlegged then well know that Isaac was full of it as well.



[edit on 2-8-2007 by shadow fax]

Originally posted by shadow fax
This would the case if the author is identified, but like i said before; the author of these images are the supposed extra terrestrial beings, 'Isaac' was merely a middle man who illegally obtained these files which were initially copied by a whole team of geniuses (ie.: not him, nor those geniuses). No earthly entity can lay claim on royalties derived from these items and if someone does whinge that their art is being bootlegged then well know that Isaac was full of it as well.

Lol, aliens. If there's something the US government is good at, it's claiming stuff as their own. I highly doubt that anyone that found a UFO would think of alien rights. Besides, as far as I know, extraterrestrial entities have no legal representation here on earth

The diagrams belong to one or a group of humans. If they belonged to the government, they would have gone offline in a matter of seconds. If they belong to Isaac, he is now going crazy trying to figure out how to stop others from making a buck from his work. Or he might be the one selling it.

I sent the e-mail to see if that particular forum had some kind of proof that they were the ones that made the diagrams. If they don't, the merchandise should be removed. I don't think you are free to use random online artwork until the original creator pops up and sues you. And as far as we know, they first appeared on Isaac's website so all the diagrams belong to him. The existence of extraterrestrials and the CARET project is yet to be proven.

*sigh*, I was waiting for someone to start milking the cow. Now the circle is complete.

[edit on 2-8-2007 by Farnswoth]

Originally posted by Farnswoth

The diagrams belong to one or a group of humans. If they belonged to the government, they would have gone offline in a matter of seconds. If they belong to Isaac, he is now going crazy trying to figure out how to stop others from making a buck from his work. Or he might be the one selling it.

I've also sent emails inquiring. I even used my company name and business card to legitimize the request for the copyright holder. I routinely send out such requests. No response and I don't expect any. It is entirely possible the Hoaxer is the one selling the merchandise through a 3rd party. The website on the T-Shirts has no contact information on their homepage. Any members here? I've also found a UFO research organization that has not posted so much as a word about this but has covered every other UFO event or sighting in detail. Stay tuned.

Edited- to say this second paragraph was not directed at you.

Organic modeling is indeed the true challenge. This Chad Drone could be replicated in a day in any NURBS program easily. Even in Subdivision Modeling it would be no sweat. It takes no special talent to make up an alien looking font in Illustrator with the simple to use vector tools. How many experts have to agree before people with no knowledge on the topic believe them??? When you go to your doctor or hire an attorney do you advise them or do they advise you? Same logic applies.

[edit on 8/2/2007 by Blaine91555]

Originally posted by Bunch

Originally posted by chunder
There are reasons that point to a creative joke - the rajman pic discrepancies as evaluated by SKF (sorry to sound like a broken record) - but those above would not, should not and have not been sufficient to convince a lot of people.
[edit on 2-8-2007 by chunder]

Wait a second, since when other people inputs do not count here. I see now a lot of the CGI crowd trying to push their angle as the only one worth pursuing.

If you want to do that fine, but do not get in the way of someone who wants to bring antoher aspect of the entire story. I think you do yourself a disservice when you only focus on just one aspect.

I'm sorry but I can't reconcile anything of what you say with my comments above.

Firstly I'm not with the CGI crowd - if you had followed this thread you would know I have been one of the most vociferous objectors to the spurious claims put forward.

Secondly none of what was mentioned was another aspect to this story at all - every single point made had been made previously, discussed at length and had not convinced a great number of people.

If there is anything I say you do not agree with fine, please point it out, but do not accuse me of stifling other people's opinions, again, if you had read this thread, you would see I am somewhat the opposite.

Shadow Fax and most others are perfectly capable of standing their own ground and engaging in debate.

As far as doing myself a disservice I am in fact trying to do a few other people a service by pointing out that you can enjoy hypothetical discussions regarding any aspect of this whole thing, and good on you if you do because it shows more intelligence than sitting in front of a tv, but until someone refutes the evidence provided by SKF that the rajman pics are false, the whole thing must be considered false.

Thought it might save a few people reading 150 pages and clarify the situation for them. Argue the logic if you like, focus on other aspects if you must but don't lose sight of the above, which can probably be considered an overwhelming majority view rather than just my opinion, but happy to be corrected if that's not the case.

Originally posted by ejsaunders

Originally posted by chunder
They were either remarkably quick at getting the merchandise out or - or what exactly !

I could be very wrong, the thread grew almost overnight at one point and I might have remembered a post at around #60 and interjected it with the Cafepress part, so it might really be 100-140, but I was sure it was fairly early on, I shall check...

No, I think you are dead right and I made the comment at the time that they had been remarkably quick in getting the T shirts printed etc.

They may have just been quick and quite clever in calling the copywright bluff but it did seem like a lot of merchandise for something not a huge amount of people would really be interested in.

It would be interesting to see how many days since they were released it took them to market merchandise and whether that was feasible.

Originally posted by chunder

As far as doing myself a disservice I am in fact trying to do a few other people a service by pointing out that you can enjoy hypothetical discussions regarding any aspect of this whole thing, and good on you if you do because it shows more intelligence than sitting in front of a tv, but until someone refutes the evidence provided by SKF that the rajman pics are false, the whole thing must be considered false.

You are entitled to your opinion and everybody else as well. I think considering the evidence presented many people lean towards this being a hoax, but we still are like waiting for more.

The reason that I put you in the CGI crowd is that you base heavily the analysis of SKF on the rajman pics as "smoking gun" for ISAAC story being a hoax? (thats what we discussing here right, ISAAC) Sorry if I made a mistake, but still that leaves a lot of ground uncovered IMO, because really it has not been determined that all this is tie together (chad, rajman, ISAAC, etc.) if you conclude different that's fine, I really have not heard a good explanation on that one yet so please fill me in on that aspect.

As far as enjoying myself with other aspects, thats just my nature, I rather base my opinion in weighing the different aspects of the entire story, because I'm not that knowledgable of the CGI stuff although I have learn a bit from the guys with the experience here, to the point that I feel comfortable agreeing with their analysis.

And if I were you, I would not worry about doing other people a service just let them have the same headaches that some of us have had by all this.

Originally posted by pjslug
Do you see Isaac posting online trying to convince the world of his experiences?

YES

www.earthfiles.com...

Did you forget about those released e-mails?? Isaac was fighting for his hoax's life. Funny how you so easly overlook things.

Nice to see you back 11 11.

I was reading those ISAAC emails again and he says this:

Most of the copies I was able to make came from documents that were already archived, which meant that they had already been censored for use by outside parties that needed access to some, but not all, of CARET's information.

COPIES?? What happens to the originals that he claims to have taken too in his original story? Archived and censored for use but not classified. Ok ISAAC whatever you say.

[edit on 2-8-2007 by Bunch]

Originally posted by 11 11
Did you forget about those released e-mails?? Isaac was fighting for his hoax's life. Funny how you so easly overlook things.

Please don't come back to our thread and be a smart ass unless you are asking for Springer to ban you a third and final time.

LMH sent him e-mails from other people. Isaac was responding to comments and accusations against him. If no e-mails were sent to him, he wouldn't have felt a need to clarify anything, and he certainly didn't force his "experience" on anyone. (I'll say this again, if you haven't read my posts, I think the CARET program was probably fake, or a cover for another program in some other company. But we are talking about "Isaac" forcing his agenda on others which he clearly has not done.)

[edit on 8/2/2007 by pjslug]