9/11 Bombshell:WTC7 Security Official Details, Says bombs were going off in 7 before either tower co

Great thread, be forewarned though that we have some new members that seem to like to burrow into your threads like a tick and slowly suck it dry with complaints and pseudomoderation. Fowlplay and captainobvious would do well to remember that posting off subject is also a violation of the rules here as well, if you don't have anything to add to the discussion other than complaints about what or how it's posted, then why bother posting anything, there is a complaint feature you know...

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
I would like to address the OP thread title by saying that this story is pretty much a lie. It was pointed out on two threads already in ATS. I think the MODS need to do a better job in controlling the amount of threads in here on the same topics.

Let me see if I can paraphrase that...

I'd like to attack the OP by calling him a liar, I don't have any tangible evidence to the contrary, and I think I have some right to dictate what he posts here by complaining.

I hate to say it captainobvious, but I really don't think it's any of your damned business what the mods do here, unless it has something to do with you. I'm tired of seeing you come onto threads and attack attack attack like some angry and mindless animal. Can you proove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Barry Jennings is lying, or is this more of your angry and futile rubbish slinging to try to get a compelling and interesting thread shut down? Your tactics are well, obvious...

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
The Title of the tread is BOMBSHELL of WTC7....

Then the OP thread starter posted several eyewitness accounts of peole who heard explosions. I would like to address the OP thread title by saying that this story is pretty much a lie. It was pointed out on two threads already in ATS. I think the MODS need to do a better job in controlling the amount of threads in here on the same topics.

I'm confused are you saying that nobody heard explosions in WTC 7? or that this Barry person didn't hear explosions in WTC 7?

Originally posted by twitchy
Great thread, be forewarned though that we have some new members that seem to like to burrow into your threads like a tick and slowly suck it dry with complaints and pseudomoderation. Fowlplay and captainobvious would do well to remember that posting off subject is also a violation of the rules here as well, if you don't have anything to add to the discussion other than complaints about what or how it's posted, then why bother posting anything, there is a complaint feature you know...

Let me see if I can paraphrase that...

I'd like to attack the OP by calling him a liar, I don't have any tangible evidence to the contrary, and I think I have some right to dictate what he posts here by complaining.

No need to change my words around sir..I was calling Mr. Jennings a LIAR. And I have proven it!

Originally posted by twitchyI hate to say it captainobvious, but I really don't think it's any of your damned business what the mods do here, unless it has something to do with you. I'm tired of seeing you come onto threads and attack attack attack like some angry and mindless animal. Can you proove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Barry Jennings is lying, or is this more of your angry and futile rubbish slinging to try to get a compelling and interesting thread shut down? Your tactics are well, obvious...

Attack? Who have I attacked? If stating the truth is attacking then guilty as charged.

Also it is not my place to prove beyond the shadow of a doubt... HAve you EVER posted ANYTHING in here that was beyond a shadow of a doubt??? PLEASE!!!!


[edit on 26-6-2007 by CaptainObvious]

Originally posted by Valhall


I'm confused are you saying that nobody heard explosions in WTC 7? or that this Barry person didn't hear explosions in WTC 7?

hi Valhall,

Barry Jennings was escorting a member of Guliani's team to the OEM bunker. The two of them got stuck in WTC7 after the collapse of the 2nd tower in a stairwell where they were rescued by FDNY.

Mr. Jennings has been on record several times including on radio giving his accounts to what happened that day.

Now, six years later, Mr. Jennnings and the Loose Change crew got together. Mr. Jennings is NOW stating that he heard explosions inside WTC7 PRIOR to any collapse. Dylan Avery, Jason Bermas, and Alex Jones jumped all over this. They gave out a little teaser last week on the radio where callers called in and actually spilled the beans on Mr. Jennings. Dylan was not happy about this.

Now, if you go to the time line I posted, I pointed out how it would be next to impossible for Mr. Jennings to be able to hear any explosions. If I am mistaken somewhere...id like it pointed out to me.

Thanks for clarifying, Captain. I don't know much about this Barry dude. I was just confused as to whether you were stating that it was a lie people reported hearing explosions for WTC 7.

I'll read up more now on Barry.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Attack? Who have I attacked?

Do I really need to answer that question for you?


Who have you attacked? Everyone here, who's opinion differs from that of Uncle Sam's, and in every thread you have participated in. Your avatar is a fine summation of your intent and your tactics. You've proven nothing, and the only evidence I've ever seen you present in your ceasless attacks on others here are taken from NIST. You've apparently done no research on your own aside from that, and you never seem to have anything remarkable to say or to bring to the discussion. It's like watching those twitching sea monkeys, the advertisment says they swim about and do amazing acrobatic feats right before your very eyes, but if you really pay attention you notice that all they do is writhe about in a wholly pointless existence as an opportunistic scavanger eating what is fed to them.
You say you have proven that Barry Jennings is a liar, well, aside from the dozens of other witnesses who heard explosions which you fail to mention, what exactly have you done to prove your assertion other than again quoting NIST ad nauseum? If the NIST report is all you have to argue with, you are more than likely going to get chewed up and spat out here, this is ATS my friend. Were you in NYC 9-11, did you actually see Mr. Jennings come in and out of the buildings? No, probably not. So really, you don't know for sure, do you? That doesn't stop you from jumping on this thread and calling people liars and telling the mods they should close it does it?
Who have you attacked? LOL.

[edit on 26-6-2007 by twitchy]

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
it would be next to impossible for Mr. Jennings to be able to hear any explosions.

Those huge spikes in the seismic reading from Pallisades are PRIOR to the collapses, so tell us again, with a straight face, it would be impossible for someone to hear an explosion when they were there at teh WTC site.

[edit on 26-6-2007 by twitchy]

Sorry hit the wrong button

[edit on 26-6-2007 by CaptainObvious]

Originally posted by twitchy


Who have you attacked? Everyone here, who's opinion differs from that of Uncle Sam's, and in every thread you have participated in. Your avatar is a fine summation of your intent and your tactics. You've proven nothing, and the only evidence I've ever seen you present in your ceasless attacks on others here are taken from NIST.

Twitchy ~

It appears to me that you are upset that I offer sometihng OTHER than that of a CT'er.. I offer an explanation to that of the CT'er with facts. Do I use NIST? Yes.... and I use MUCH more. Like firefighters testimony, eyewitnees testimony....Engineers, and common sence.

I dont use Video clips that have been doctored or put on a loop trying to force an agenda.

Because I ask for facts, I am attacking someone? I didn't call the OP'er a liar... I called the man that is saying he heard the explosions PRIOR to any collaspe a liar.

You claim that many people have stated that they heard explosions prior to the first collapse? Well, be that as it may, Mr. Jennings statement NOW is that he heard explosions IN WTC7 Prior to either collapse.

If you actualy read my post with the timeline that is backed up by HIS own testimony, you will see that his story is now fabricated to fit an agenda.

As far as your seismic evidenct goes... the company that you posted has released a statement saying that the seismic activity recorded is NOT that of a controlled demolition.

Now, I'm not a seismologist, so I will have to unfortunatly rely my blind faith on that of the experts. Sorry if I dont go with what someone on the internet decides is factual.

"There is no scientific basis for the conclusion that explosions brought down the towers," Lerner-Lam tells PM. "That representation of our work is categorically incorrect and not in context."

www.popularmechanics.com...

Geophysicist Terry Wallace concurs.

"How can geologists catch a terrorist? With their instruments, explains Terry Wallace, a geophysicist at the University of Arizona. There are about 16,000 seismometers installed around the world, many of which offer data on freely accessible Web sites. Seismometers detect motion in the Earth, which can be triggered by an earthquake, or possibly explosions.

By learning how to read these signals, Wallace hopes scientists might catch on to suspicious activity.

"We can study these signals and begin to develop a portfolio of different kinds of signatures of explosions," says Wallace. "It will be like have a set of fingerprints."

Geophysicists have already contributed critical data to terrorist investigations. It was geologists who determined there were no secondary explosions at the base of the World Trade Center towers — but only the impact of the airplanes and subsequent fires — that contributed to the towers' collapse on Sept. 11".

www.globalsecurity.org...



If my posts have been misuderstood or taken as an ATTACK, I apologize. I am just trying to offer my opinions and facts that I have gathered.




[edit on 26-6-2007 by CaptainObvious]

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Geophysicist Terry Wallace concurs.

"How can geologists catch a terrorist? With their instruments, explains Terry Wallace, a geophysicist at the University of Arizona. There are about 16,000 seismometers installed around the world, many of which offer data on freely accessible Web sites. Seismometers detect motion in the Earth, which can be triggered by an earthquake, or possibly explosions.

By learning how to read these signals, Wallace hopes scientists might catch on to suspicious activity.

"We can study these signals and begin to develop a portfolio of different kinds of signatures of explosions," says Wallace. "It will be like have a set of fingerprints."

Yes I'm sure Terry Wallace would be a really objective source of information regarding government wrong doings...

Source
The Principal Associate Director of Science, Technology, and Engineering is responsible for all basic science programs at LANL, and coordinates the activities of the four science and engineering directorates. Terry Wallace brings strong science credentials and a track record as an effective science manager at LANL. During the period of 2005 to June 2006, Wallace was the Associate Director of Strategic Research, which encompassed LANL's science program offices and the five line divisions that implemented those programs and supported LANL's nuclear weapons, threat reduction, and energy security missions. He was also responsible for LANL's non-National Nuclear Security Administration Department of Energy programs, including basic science, energy technology, and environmental technology. Before becoming the Associate Director for Strategic Research, Wallace was the Division leader of the Earth and Environmental Sciences Division.

Raised in Los Alamos, Wallace returned in 2003 after 20 years as a professor of geosciences and an associate in the applied mathematics program at the University of Arizona.

I find it almost amusing that you and others are so sure that the seismic readings don't indicate explosions when the very people that recorded the information have said they can't be sure themselves...

Source
unfortunately we also conclude that from the distance at which our own detections were made (the nearest station is 34 km away at Palisades, N.Y.) it is not possible to infer (with detail sufficient to meet the demands of civil engineers in an emergency situation) just what the near-in ground motions must have been.

In fact their readings are IMO consistent with underground explosions...

Source
An explosion at a gasoline tank farm near Newark NJ on January 7, 1983 generated observable P and S waves and short-period Rg waves (ML 3) at PAL. Its Rg is comparable to that for WTC collapse 2.

[edit on 26-6-2007 by twitchy]

[edit on 26-6-2007 by twitchy]

Originally posted by twitchy
Yes I'm sure Terry Wallace would be a really objective source of information regarding government wrong doings...

Source
The Principal Associate Director of Science, Technology, and Engineering is responsible for all basic science programs at LANL, and coordinates the activities of the four science and engineering directorates. Terry Wallace brings strong science credentials and a track record as an effective science manager at LANL. During the period of 2005 to June 2006, Wallace was the Associate Director of Strategic Research, which encompassed LANL's science program offices and the five line divisions that implemented those programs and supported LANL's nuclear weapons, threat reduction, and energy security missions. He was also responsible for LANL's non-National Nuclear Security Administration Department of Energy programs, including basic science, energy technology, and environmental technology. Before becoming the Associate Director for Strategic Research, Wallace was the Division leader of the Earth and Environmental Sciences Division.

Raised in Los Alamos, Wallace returned in 2003 after 20 years as a professor of geosciences and an associate in the applied mathematics program at the University of Arizona.

Thanks Twitchy for pointing out how qualified this man is for translating seismic data. If you refuse to believe him (your perogative) Can you please find someone with equal or greater experience that will or has refuted his statement?

I will post more when I get home tonight. Sorry... gotta get back to work.

What do you mean, like for instance 'the very people that recorded the information in the first place', those SEISMOLOGISTS? You damned right I'll take their word over some guy from LANL's, six years later.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
So, although we don't have a conclusive time as to how long Jennings was waiting for the elevator or how long it took him to get down the stairs...the fact is. Jennings explosions he heard were WTC2 collapsing.

Times are often irrelvant and inconclusive as "proof" because many times are based on reccollection.

I'm sure it's stated in the NIST report that the "order" to evacuate the building was given at 9:44, but what is this based on? The commissioner's memory of the events that transpired that day? Because I'm sure he was sitting there with a pad of paper writing down the times that he issued orders while planes crashed into buildings and they collapsed. I know I would have also ... just to cover my ass in case there might be an investigation into the times that I issued orders.

just to give a little more insight into "times" used for "proof" ... and this from one of the world's most widely accepted beliefs:

Source

Jesus was brutally tortured and then hung by his hands, which were nailed to a horizontal wooden beam (cross). This method of execution restricted the airflow to his lungs, killing him in three hours. However, according to more than 500 witnesses, Jesus returned from the dead three days later, and over the next 40 days journeyed in both the southern and northern provinces of Israel. To many, this was conclusive proof that Jesus' claims to be God were real.

Source

It's rather clear from the way that the stories develop in the gospels that the Christians who are writing the gospels a generation after the death of Jesus are doing so from a stock of oral memory, that is, stories that had been passed down to probably by followers.

So, 500 witnesses and 40 days of travel and no one records any historical record of this man "rising from the dead" for another 40 years? Funny how "times" work out like that.

Originally posted by twitchy
Great thread, be forewarned though that we have some new members that seem to like to burrow into your threads like a tick and slowly suck it dry with complaints and pseudomoderation. Fowlplay and captainobvious would do well to remember that posting off subject is also a violation of the rules here as well, if you don't have anything to add to the discussion other than complaints about what or how it's posted, then why bother posting anything, there is a complaint feature you know...

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
I would like to address the OP thread title by saying that this story is pretty much a lie. It was pointed out on two threads already in ATS. I think the MODS need to do a better job in controlling the amount of threads in here on the same topics.

Let me see if I can paraphrase that...

I'd like to attack the OP by calling him a liar, I don't have any tangible evidence to the contrary, and I think I have some right to dictate what he posts here by complaining.

I hate to say it captainobvious, but I really don't think it's any of your damned business what the mods do here, unless it has something to do with you. I'm tired of seeing you come onto threads and attack attack attack like some angry and mindless animal. Can you proove beyond any shadow of a doubt that Barry Jennings is lying, or is this more of your angry and futile rubbish slinging to try to get a compelling and interesting thread shut down? Your tactics are well, obvious...

You beat me to it. Was going to say the same thing. Ill prove Captainobvious wrong....

BeZerk

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
1- Deputy OEM Commissioner ordered the complete evacuation of WTC 7 at 9:44 AM INCLUDING the 23rd flr. OEM Center.

If there was an evacuation at 9:44am, then that highly contradicts the "pull it" statement that Silverstein refers to.

Dr. Shyam Sunder, of the National Institutes of Standards and Technology (NIST), which investigated the collapse of WTC 7, is quoted in Popular Mechanics (9/11: Debunking the Myths, March, 2005) as saying: "There was no firefighting in WTC 7."

The FEMA report on the collapses, from May, 2002, also says about the WTC 7 collapse: "no manual firefighting operations were taken by FDNY."

And an article by James Glanz in the New York Times on November 29, 2001 says about WTC 7: "By 11:30 a.m., the fire commander in charge of that area, Assistant Chief Frank Fellini, ordered firefighters away from it for safety reasons."

So "PULL IT" does not refer to pulling the firefighters out of the building. Since when is "IT" referred to firefighters.

2- Jennings arrives at the 23rd floor to an abandoned OEM center. Make a few calls and then is told to evacuate.

3- I have yet to find a time as to when he arrived at the 23rd floor. But lets assume it took at least 5 minutes to evacuate the OEM center at 9:44. We are now looking at about 10 minutes to 10. 9:50AM

4- So Lets say Jennings arrived EXACTLY 5 minutes after OEM evacuated. That puts us at 9:55.

6- Jenning makes a few calls and is told to evacuate. approx.1-2 Minutes. That puts us at 9:57

7- Jennings then heads to the elevator and is waiting, 9:59AM WTC2 collapses the lights flicker inside WTC-7

8- Jennings was waiting for an unspecified amount of time, learned that the elevator did not work so headed for the staircase.

9- When Jennings got down to the 6th floor it was 10:28am. WTC1 collapsed. Jennings and the gentleman he was with were stuck.

So, although we don't have a conclusive time as to how long Jennings was waiting for the elevator or how long it took him to get down the stairs...the fact is. Jennings explosions he heard were WTC2 collapsing.

You can find the times in the NIST report:

wtc.nist.gov...

You can read this thread @: www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 26-6-2007 by CaptainObvious]

I guess you miss read the section where Barry testifies this all happened BEFORE either tower collapsed, thus WTC7 was at that point in time completely undamaged from any falling debris or resulting fires as the Towers had not yet collapsed. It also means that explosions were witnessed in WTC7 up to eight hours before its collapse at around 5.30pm.

Barry even witnessed dead bodies in the lobby of WTC7 and was told by the police not to look at them BEFORE the collapse of the towers. What caused the deaths of these people in the lobby?

This is vital information be cause it is in direct conflict with the official claim that no one was killed inside building 7. The 9/11 Commission did not even make mention the building, yet here we have a witness who heard an explosion on the lower levels yet it goes un-noticed.

What actually makes this even more interesting is that the 9/11 Commission even interviewed Barry, yet his claim has not been included in the commission report.

Avery can prove without a shadow of a doubt that Barry's testimony is FACT and not fiction. This is a crucial piece of the puzzle and that is the reason why more detail are not released. Only time will tell.

BeZerk




[edit on 26-6-2007 by BeZerk]

I also always found it sickening that according to Giuliani himself, someone came into Giuliani's office there and told him to evacuate because the building was going to collapse, and they evacuated meanwhile the regular joes there, people like you and I were being told to return to their offices to work...
I just saw an interview with that fuzzbucket where he denied saying that he had foreknowlege of an impending collapse, an outright boldface, good ole boy lie. If he had no foewarning of an impending collapse than he should have died in that building with the others that were being told to go back to work, I'd have alot more respect for him then rather than watching him blow hot air in a presidential campaign on some sickening I'm a 'disaster candidate' platform. Anybody that uses 9-11 for anything like that should be damned ashamed themselves.

by saying that the information is taken out of context and that it cannot be determined by the evidence at hand that explosions brought down the towers is not to say that there were not explosions.

this is what your link to popular mechanics said:

FACT: "There is no scientific basis for the conclusion that explosions brought down the towers," Lerner-Lam tells PM. "That representation of our work is categorically incorrect and not in context."

if you are willing to post and accept that someones word is fact then expect others to do the same.

secondly, his statement does not even deny explosions.

furthermore, it is admitted in the article that the timeline is only 30 minutes long. how long was it between the first impact and second collapse? 1 hour and 42 minutes. the 'debunking' timeline is only 40 seconds each.

Just look at how the building fell, there can be no doubt it was demolished!

This is crazy, I dont see whats so hard to believe that a building that wasnt hit by anything collapsed cuz of explosives.

The real problem you people have, is you cant conceptualize your mind to grasp the idea that the government is lying to you. Thats the real problem here, you people are afraid to face the reality that maybe, just maybe, they did it and are lying to you. It frightens you, because you held fast to that belief, and your ego doesnt want to admit its wrong!

Its time to face facts, your governmen does not love you, its not the all caring protective force they claim to be, they are there to control you and to keep you ignorant, because your not supposed to get in the way of powerful men by doing too much THINKING. You are supposed to believe whatever the spin doctors tell you, and go along with whatever they do.

They offer you protection and safety, and all they ask from you is your silent obedient consent. That is so dangerous, and you people will pay for your ignorance, because you willfully chose to believe the Lie.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious

It appears to me that you are upset that I offer sometihng OTHER than that of a CT'er.. I offer an explanation to that of the CT'er with facts. Do I use NIST? Yes.... and I use MUCH more. Like firefighters testimony, eyewitnees testimony....Engineers, and common sence.

I have used firefighters and EMS testimony in a long posting which you initially complained about.

Do you take into account as "FACT" the list i provided with Firefighters & EMS testimony?

I could list more testimonies if you like.

BeZerk

Originally posted by Fowl Play
I dont think it is within ATS's T&C just to copy and paste information without linking the source material.. Also all of these issues are currently in discussion in other 9/11 threads..
As a newcomer, i advise you read through other threads first before posting repeat threads, also you should put outside links to all your copied posts.
Regards

How about you try and debate in a mature and sophisticated manner in which we can all put forward our views at hand instead of basing your assumptions on an individuals posting without even taking the time of reading the information provided.

I am not just a member of this forum i have another forum which i contribute the information to. Also i have provided the source where i have posted where necessary.

If you have a complaint on a certain issue I'm sure you can take this up with a Moderator on the board

BeZerK