Convert Me!!!!! ( Christain or Atheist)

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32

Science doesn't know even half about our ocean, science cant tell me why there is thunder. Science cant even tell me what the core of the earth is made up of, but they can tell me what happen billions of years ago. Your not stupid I can tell so why do you believe that. You do agree science is man made right.

No. You don't know what science is and you are arguing with me about it.

Science was not "made up" by people. Science is about acquiring knowledge through scientific method, which is analyzing empirical evidence -- that is, things that actually EXIST that can be tested.

Science cant even tell me what the core of the earth is made up of

Earth has a diameter of 12,756 km (7,972 mi). The Earth's interior consists of rock and metal. It is made up of four main layers:
1) the inner core: a solid metal core made up of nickel and iron (1200 km diameter)
2) the outer core: a liquid molten core of nickel and iron
3) the mantle: dense and mostly solid silicate rock
4) the crust: thin silicate rock material

from: www.windows.ucar.edu...=/earth/Interior_Structure/interior.html

science cant tell me why there is thunder

That question is answered here.

Need I go on? I can answer all the questions you posed here, but it's not my job to educate you on everything science can answer. All you have to do is Google to find your answers. Scientists have it all out there for you to read about. I just put up these two examples to show you that the answers are out there.

And I have to ask, after this exchange, where on earth were you educated? Either you have no formal education, or you are too young for it, in which case I'm going to stop this debate because I don't want to be seen as picking on a kid who doesn't know any better.

They do not know what the core of the earth is made of because nothing as ever been that far. They have theories of what they think it is made of. Either way its all theory on what they suppose it could be made of. Using their scientific evidence that they already have. Which might be wrong

[edit on 24-6-2007 by Mrknighttime32]

They also think they know alot of things but whenever they find out different its ok because they can change it.

That's exactly it.

Religion doesn't change, even with new information.

Science does change when it gets new information.

A scientist does not have to go to the center of the earth to know what it is made of. There are instruments they can use to test it. It is explained here.

Scientists can test and prove their hypotheses.

Theists only have "faith." They can test nothing, nor prove it. Their god remains hidden and has to be believed in with absolutely no evidence whatsoever, and plenty of evidence to suggest it does not actually exist.

It is you who are trying to say something exists without proof, not I.

And now, I depart this thread, because it is futile to debate with someone who has absolutely no understanding of science, and intends to remain willfully ignorant of it.

Congratulations, your circular reasoning has succeeded in making me utterly dizzy.

I find it very difficult to believe that anyone living in a developed nation in this day and age can be so ignorant of the true workings of the earth and the universe, when it's all out there to be learned.

Which again leads me to believe you're just a kid that doesn't know any better. If my hypothesis is correct, you are home schooled and your parents don't believe in science either. If this is true, they are not doing their proper duty to you, which is to prepare you to go out into the real world as an adult. Filling up a kid's head with superstition and decrying science is both ignorant, and, in my opinion, cruel.

Good luck, and good bye.

ok they used the methods that they use to see what other things are mad of. Their little sonar or waves whatever they use. You are just acting this way because you know it is not true and that science is theory. Go to your science websites and they will tell you that they do not truly know what the core of the earth is made of.

I also wanted you to know I knew how they found out what is made up of I dont have to go to your site. Its junior high knowledge man that you are still stuck on

Mrknighttime32 it seems that you truly are either very young in age or very uneducated. I clicked on all the link MM showed, I already had some knowledge in it, and low and behold the info there is correct.

I am not young but I see that you are young minded. If i tell you i am going to tell you what its like in heaven. How could I possibly know considering I havent been there. I mean there are parts of the ocean that have not even been seen. deep ocean. so if we dont know about our ocean then how we know about whats after that.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Also I just wanted to say that you can be converted to anything; Atheism is just another form of a religion. No matter how you want to say it that is the truth. Thats something people need to realize that the belief in there being no God is still believing in something. You can make anything you religion or you god it is just a choice on what you want to worship. Right?

And bald is a hair colour?
This is one of the greatest misunderstandings of atheism, and humanity in general:
Humans must alwaysbelieve in something
We don't build temples to atheism. We do not worship atheism. We do not worship a deity associated with atheism. We don't believe that our beliefs will get us into heaven.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Why should Christians have to prove there being a god and atheist don't have to prove anything.

Well I think it's largely because:
There is NO VERIFIABLE PROOF THAT GOD/S EXIST.

Atheism is basically the denial of the existance of God/s. Also it's pretty easy to disprove the existance of God (even when solely using the Bible). And I do think that, if Christian/Muslims/Pastafarians want to jump into the Faith forum and start to convert every single member, us atheists/agnostics should be able to 'fight back' by refuting the existance of God/s.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
I also believe that atheist do have a bible to that contradicts itself just like the Christian bible. What do you say to that? Science books are you bibles all the test and results you get thats you bible.

No, they (science books/test results) are not our 'Bibles', as:
1. We do not swear on them when providing evidence. (I swear by the Newmans Science 2007 Edition that I will provide...)
2. We don't read them in a temple/church (and don't say that the lab/science class is 'our' temple).
3. We don't base the decisions surrounding ourselves and our lives on the science book (Hmmm we are believed to be descended from animals so I should be monogamous).

Personally this is one of the worst (and most common) defences of one's religion on this forum.

Question: Do you know what science is?
The 'scientific mehtod' is generally thought to be:
1. Create a hypothesis
2. Do research/carry out experiments to test the aforementioned hypothesis
3. Create a conclusion, using evidence discovered in the experiment.

And please do not bring your 'Creationist science (if that)' into the debate.
Most (if not all) creationist science is a perversal of the scientific method as, rather than researching/experimenting on a hpyothesis they are merely trying to prove an end result, and as such can cherry pick whatever data they so wish.

I agreee that most scientific knowledge we currently have is theory.
However, when I have to chose between a theory that, though it may or may not be true, by-and-large offers a good (and provable) explanation of the phenomenon in question, or Goddidit

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
I know you wont admit this but if you are living your life just for you then you are worshiping yourself. Its all the same thing when you truly worship whatever God you believe in then you are living your life for that God its all worship.

As LurkerBeast rightly said your worship of a God/s is selfish.
You're not truly worshipping the God/s because you truly desire to: Rather you want to experience whatever benefits your worship of the God will provide, whether it will be entry to heaven, laughing at the evil sinners etc etc.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
How can science tell me what happen billions of years ago when science itself was made up by humans.

Well seeing as humans wrote the Bible according to you it has about the same veracity as science.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
So you do think that all this was made up to just like you think God was made up. If people made up God I can assure you that they made up science to take Gods place you dont have to be educated to figure that out.

Just...shut...up.
You are not making sense.
As I continue to reiterate science is the application of logic, reason etc to develop our understanding of this world.
Also I highly doubt that there is/was a secret council of scientists that are devoted to making science a religion.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
I know about religions and I also know a little about science. Science changes sooooooo much whatever you think is real today can change tomorrow. Just like when the earth was flat.

No, from your posts it seems you know little to nothing about science.
Also the belief that the Earth was flat was supported largely by two things:
1. Humanity currently didn't have the resources to either develop a mathematical understanding of the world's shape, or circumnavigate the globe 'til around the 1600s and
2. The Bible continually points out that the world has 'four corners'.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Close minded people never listen

Hypocrisy at it's finest.

science doesn't prove..
it creates theories to support observations.
this is one of the most fundamental principles in science.
whoever says or said that science proves anything is an idiot.

Originally posted by Chaoticar

1. Humanity currently didn't have the resources to either develop a mathematical understanding of the world's shape, or circumnavigate the globe 'til around the 1600s and

"Aristotle provided physical and observational arguments supporting the idea of a spherical Earth:

* Every portion of the earth tends toward the center until by compression and convergence they form a sphere.
* Travelers going south see southern constellations rise higher above the horizon; and
* The shadow of Earth on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is round."

en.wikipedia.org...

kthanks bye

You say science is not you religion but you live your life by what the books say and you teach your children what the books say, and you tell them its the truth its fact. You convert your children you yourself were converted. It is all the same thing as religion just because science was smart and said the evidence we have today can change tomorrow. Like I said if the bible is not true and created by humans then your science is the same thing." one mans garbage is another mans treasure." Its all in perception and thats what science is. The rules we use to do our experiment are the same rules that science say can be changed if they find out something new in the future. So wouldn't that make what ever answer you get questionable. Science use controlled experiments(yea its all controlled by mans mind.) Man make so many mistakes it is stupid for you to say you don't believe in one man made thing but you wont believe in another.

Originally posted by cheeser

Originally posted by Chaoticar

1. Humanity currently didn't have the resources to either develop a mathematical understanding of the world's shape, or circumnavigate the globe 'til around the 1600s and

"Aristotle provided physical and observational arguments supporting the idea of a spherical Earth:

* Every portion of the earth tends toward the center until by compression and convergence they form a sphere.
* Travelers going south see southern constellations rise higher above the horizon; and
* The shadow of Earth on the Moon during a lunar eclipse is round."

en.wikipedia.org...

kthanks bye

Also I want you to notice how you quote your scriptures out of you science book to prove you points. UMMMMM sound familiar

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Also I want you to notice how you quote your scriptures out of you science book to prove you points. UMMMMM sound familiar

i wasn't proving any points, i actually wasn't even quoting anything YOU said. i was just pointing out that spherical earth theory had been around longer than 300BCE.

SCIENCE IS NOT A RELIGION YOU IDIOT

"science refers to a system of acquiring knowledge based on the scientific method, as well as to the organized body of knowledge gained through such research"

you "prove" points via information, it just so happens that "books" are the most efficient way of carrying and storing this information. idiot.

kthanks bye.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
You say science is not you religion but you live your life by what the books say and you teach your children what the books say, and you tell them its the truth its fact.

As Cheeser pointed out science is basically the result of studying observations.
According to your post the English language is a religion, as if one has children one must instruct the children on whatever one's nationality's main language is.
I'll repeat for you, as you seem quite unable to grasp the basic concept here: Science is not a religion, as the results of scientific research are applicable in real life.
You better stop using that computer unless you want to sound like a hpyocrite, as it was created by 'science worshippers.'

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
You convert your children you yourself were converted. It is all the same thing as religion just because science was smart and said the evidence we have today can change tomorrow. Like I said if the bible is not true and created by humans then your science is the same thing." one mans garbage is another mans treasure."

Well personally I would want my children to believe in logic and reason as opposed to a mystical deity with an extremly non-interventionist perception.
Once more I shall reiterate:The results derived from science can be applied to real life.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Its all in perception and thats what science is. The rules we use to do our experiment are the same rules that science say can be changed if they find out something new in the future. So wouldn't that make what ever answer you get questionable. Science use controlled experiments(yea its all controlled by mans mind.) Man make so many mistakes it is stupid for you to say you don't believe in one man made thing but you wont believe in another.

Look at the keyboard, monitor etc you are in all likely-hood using. Can you say that it was mere guesswork that humanity managed to create these things?

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Also I want you to notice how you quote your scriptures out of you science book to prove you points. UMMMMM sound familiar

Do you know that most, if not all, recent books released pertaining to science have basically the same information?
And, according to your 'logic' (if that) other fields of study, due to the number of 'quotations' that can be derived from them, are religions, such as economics, history, geography etc etc.

Would you say that the bible is completely wrong or some wrong?

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Would you say that the bible is completely wrong or some wrong?

I would say that parts of the bible are completely wrong. Such as the world-wide flood, the Garden of Eden, and some of the laws in the Old Testament (such as killing your wife and leaving her body on your father's doorstep if she is not a virgin).

I haven't read through this entire thread, but I've noticed a big Religion/Science fight going on here. Science is the study of the physical universe. Religion is the study of the spiritual realm. You're comparing apples and oranges. Religion and Science sometimes overlap, and when they do they are almost always in perfect harmony.

By the way, Atheism is the absence of religion, so it's not a religion. And Science is not a religion either. Only Religion, is Religion. :shk:

[edit on 6/26/2007 by TheB1ueSoldier]

thanks for your thought what i am saying is science is another form of god or a god

if science is another form of god only in the realm of pantheism.
pantheism uses the word 'god' as a metaphor.
pantheism = redefinition of the word god for nature or reality etc..
its no religion and appears to me like atheism.

i think your misplacing the word 'god' for 'belief'

Good point well taken maybe I am, but it is the atheist that try to use science to disprove God so I can only assume you get disprove something with something that is not in the same category