Convert Me!!!!! ( Christain or Atheist)

IS HE OR ISNT HE?


First let me start off with saying that I will not tell anyone whether I believe in a god or not. I am taking the role as a stupid baby that does not know anything. I want someone to show me how everything works and why they believe it works that way.


This thread is for people who are not afraid of getting their feelings hurt. I want all the facts that both sides have on why they think there is not a God and why you believe there is a God. There is going to be some arguing here and there is nothing wrong with that. Lets just stay on the topic. Christians are able to use their bible as reference and Atheist are able to use their bible as a reference. Either side can use each others sources.

At the end of this thread I hope to enlighten both sides!!!!!!!!!

Do you believe in pink invisible flying elephants that do not interact with our reality and are otherwise absolutely undetectable by human beings?

No?

Well, then there’s no reason to believe in any God(s) either.

On another note, this topic is rather silly. You can’t be converted to Atheism. You’re an atheist by default in relation to all religions. The thread should be a challenge to Christians to convert you to their flawed religion.

I can guess with a 90% certainty that the OP is a Christian him self from what he/she has written.

Ask yourself whether God can be both omnipotent and good at the same time. Think hard.

By the way, this is ony the first step.

convert yourself...

wtf do you want? someone to give you a miracle??? convince you????

*pfft

Atheists don't have a bible. We have science and rationality.

From your original question, it appears to me that you are already a Christian or theist of some kind, because only theists make the mistake that atheists "convert" anyone or have a "bible."

So in my own opinion, this is an exercise in futility.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
So in my own opinion, this is an exercise in futility.

I agree.... well said, couldn't have said it any better!

As I suspected:

www.belowtopsecret.com...

Atheists wouldn't play a scripture based game like this.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Atheists wouldn't play a scripture based game like this.

Well, maybe he's seen the light. Or gone over to the dark side. Depending upon your perspective.

It is not up to us to convince you of anything. Let your God do that. It is their job. Besides, I have my own faith to contend with and don't need the responsibility of converting others.

In the heavenly words of our fathers of the soul and the reverend of the Mix.

"It's like that and that's the way it is"

"Huh"



Run DMC and Jam Master J "Huh"

I'm not going to try to tell you "How it is" or what to believe. I'll tell you how I deal, and you can form your own conclusions.

To me, the Bible is a reference book. Almost fiction. A great story of how things kinda should be, attitude-wise. It has a lot of everyday incidents and how they were dealt with.
The Old Test. has all the working rules and regs and Basics on how to live life. It has a little background on how we came to be who we are.
The New Test. has a little different idea. IT'S a story of how God's Son came down and lived a fairly moral life, gave some great advice, and in the end, died to save us from ourselves and our lack of lessons learned from Testament: Old.

My translation is this: Old Testament tells me this- The Golden Rule. Ya know, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That's the whole theme, right there.
New Testament tells me this- God KNOWS freewill gives us the option of breaking every one of his commandments. He knows the chances are pretty slim he can get us all a ticket to Heaven if he doesn't change the rules a bit. S, he sends a "Son" down to take ALL of our sins on His shoulders and we are given the reins to our own salvation. Now from there on, we are already forgiven all the stupid things we've done in our existance, but only in God's eyes. Our final Judgement is our own. At the end, when we die, we are shown our life. WE have to decide right there if we are worthy of Heaven OR if we will be churned out again to Earth in another life to FIX where we went wrong. Or to learn that lesson again.
I DON'T think there is a Hell. I honestly think Earth is the closest thing to Hell we will ever experience. And the forever in Hell is only if you can't learn that lesson you need to get into heaven.
So, in my case, I live my life just like you. I get up and start a day of making constant decisions. However, my decisions are always based on how it could effect those around me. I liken it to the carpenter's adage of "Measure twice, cut once" or "Look before you leap". I have to forgive myself at the end of my life, my decisions today effect my forever, so, I conduct myself in a manner that makes that easier.
I'm not worried about God being proud, I worry about me being proud. I want to be a good guy. Christian or Athiest? Whatever. I don't think it matters. Call yourself anything. It's in your mindset and your actions how you live your life. Not in any dogma.

Class is where it's at, my brotha!
Cuhail

Why should Christians have to prove there being a god and atheist don't have to prove anything. Thats being a hipo don't you think I think both sides should prove it. I also believe that atheist do have a bible to that contradicts itself just like the Christian bible. What do you say to that? Science books are you bibles all the test and results you get thats you bible. Right? The only upper hand you have on the bible is that you can change science if you feel you wrong.

Also I just wanted to say that you can be converted to anything; Atheism is just another form of a religion. No matter how you want to say it that is the truth. Thats something people need to realize that the belief in there being no God is still believing in something. You can make anything you religion or you god it is just a choice on what you want to worship. Right?

Originally posted by Cuhail


I DON'T think there is a Hell. I honestly think Earth is the closest thing to Hell we will ever experience. And the forever in Hell is only if you can't learn that lesson you need to get into heaven.
So, in my case, I live my life just like you. I get up and start a day of making constant decisions. However, my decisions are always based on how it could effect those around me. I liken it to the carpenter's adage of "Measure twice, cut once" or "Look before you leap". I have to forgive myself at the end of my life, my decisions today effect my forever, so, I conduct myself in a manner that makes that easier.
I'm not worried about God being proud, I worry about me being proud. I want to be a good guy. Christian or Athiest? Whatever. I don't think it matters. Call yourself anything. It's in your mindset and your actions how you live your life. Not in any dogma.

Class is where it's at, my brotha!
Cuhail

You make some good points there I was wondering though you said that it is up to us to choose whether or not we or spit back into the cycle or not I want you to tell me who in there right mind would choose to you to Earth-Hell as you call it. If it is up to me I would do whatever I wanted to here on earth because when I die I know I can choose if I think to my standards I lead a decent life. SOUNDS GREAT TO ME.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Why should Christians have to prove there being a god and atheist don't have to prove anything. Thats being a hipo don't you think I think both sides should prove it. I also believe that atheist do have a bible to that contradicts itself just like the Christian bible. What do you say to that? Science books are you bibles all the test and results you get thats you bible. Right? The only upper hand you have on the bible is that you can change science if you feel you wrong.

Wrong.

A bible is a book of fiction and morality plays supported only by itself and other people's beliefs. The bible is not to be questioned and does not ever change, no matter how outdated or ridiculous it is compared to modern knowledge.

Science books are full of tested, proven facts about the laws of nature, that change when new knowledge is obtained. Science admits when it is ignorant, and religion does not.

You can SAY that science books are bibles but they are not the same thing, and your ignorance is mindboggling on this subject.

I'm not going to get into another stupid debate with someone who doesn't even understand what science is, let alone how it is different from superstition.

Thanks anyway, but I'm not in the mood for this kind of juvenile shenanigans today.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Why should Christians have to prove there being a god and atheist don't have to prove anything.

Relax. Christians don't have to prove anything either. That's a common misunderstanding. As a Christian all you're required to do is relay what you know. Christianity (except for the apostles) is a faith-based religion. That means you read what's written in the Bible, and you believe. If you share your faith with others they are not required to believe. Without free-will there could be no love. Sadly that allows room for denial but don't worry about it if others disapprove of your religion. Christians aren't told to convert, just to share their knowledge. The conversion part is left up to the individual and God.

(At the risk of venturing into theology)
Atheist have all the evidence they need to point towards there being a Creator (Aside from the fact that you can't prove a negative). Quite simply, there is a creation so there must be a creator. Something from nothing is not possible. This morning I was helping my daughter put a saddle on a horse and I couldn't help but think how fantastic these animals were. Imagine finding something like this on another planet. Scientist would scream with delight. People would faint in shock. Yet, since they're here on our planet, they're just lumped in with everything else as part of a cosmic accident. There's no way they could be designed because.....because....they are on our planet. That's pretty much all the atheist has to do. Simply ignore all life on this planet and pretend it's all an accident.

In 2001 a Space Odyssey, what was the great discovery on the moon that had everyone in a tizzy? A monolith. That's right. Just a simple rectangle without any moving parts. Simply the fact that it was shaped proved there was in intelligence behind it.

The following two pictures and comments sums up the atheist and scientific community who discount intelligent design. That deny the existence of a god.

Wow! Proof of intelligent life out there. No doubt something designed this.


Boring! Ho-hum. Show me the evidence there's an intelligent designer behind this "thing". It's a cosmic accident for sure.


[edit on 22-6-2007 by dbates]

Then who created the creator? by your logic, something can't come from nothing, so where did the creator come from? Then who created that creator? It becomes an infinite regression.

It's simpler and proper to see that the universe has always been and will always be. No creator necessary.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Then who created the creator?

It's my understanding, that the Creator is seperate from and outside of the creation. Much like a painter is not part of the painting. Time does not exist for this being and thus there is no concept of beginning or end. Basically it's pretty much out of our leauge of understanding since someone in this position would be in the 7th (At a minimum) or 10th dimension. That's a whole other discussion in itself. I knew this would be the first rebuttal to my idea. I think the same way you do. Honestly. I just reach different conclusions.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
It's simpler and proper to see that the universe has always been and will always be.

You don't even want to step into that trap. Given an infinite past there's no way that we would ever arrive at the present. It's not logical to argue that since we would still be waiting for an infinite amount of time to pass before we arrived on Earth. That is a real example of infinite regression.

EDIT: I'm going to go warm up some pasta for lunch. Would that be communion to you?

[edit on 22-6-2007 by dbates]

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Why should Christians have to prove there being a god and atheist don't have to prove anything. Thats being a hipo don't you think I think both sides should prove it. I also believe that atheist do have a bible to that contradicts itself just like the Christian bible. What do you say to that? Science books are you bibles all the test and results you get thats you bible. Right? The only upper hand you have on the bible is that you can change science if you feel you wrong.

Wrong.

A bible is a book of fiction and morality plays supported only by itself and other people's beliefs. The bible is not to be questioned and does not ever change, no matter how outdated or ridiculous it is compared to modern knowledge.

Science books are full of tested, proven facts about the laws of nature, that change when new knowledge is obtained. Science admits when it is ignorant, and religion does not.

You can SAY that science books are bibles but they are not the same thing, and your ignorance is mindboggling on this subject.

I'm not going to get into another stupid debate with someone who doesn't even understand what science is, let alone how it is different from superstition.

Thanks anyway, but I'm not in the mood for this kind of juvenile shenanigans today.

You say that science is all proven facts which is definetly not true. A fact is only what a person makes it. Just like we have our alphabet and or numbers. We choice to believe that one plus one is two and three plus three is six. Science is not proven. Science is simply another way of explaining things. So you saying that your not going to listen to what someone else has to say is juve not me. Im listening to all points but your stuck on what you have been told. Are you even a scientist. Just like people say you believe what you were born into you believe science because what you were told your whole life. Science changes daily which does not mean it is proven.