Convert Me!!!!! ( Christain or Atheist)

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Also I just wanted to say that you can be converted to anything; Atheism is just another form of a religion. No matter how you want to say it that is the truth. Thats something people need to realize that the belief in there being no God is still believing in something. You can make anything you religion or you god it is just a choice on what you want to worship. Right?

I understand what you are saying, people have worshipped money, science, atheism, pop stars, etc etc. and turned it into a religion.

So If I practice not worshipping anything, it is a religion of non-worshipping?

What is the difference between a practice and a religion, is it, worship?

[edit on 23-6-2007 by ixiy]

Originally posted by ben91069

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
you are right that everything comes down to free will but i also feel if u do believe in something you should be able to explain why you do.

Is it possible you do not have free will, but just think you do? What I mean is, you make a decision based on your thoughts, but where exactly do they come from? Are they yours, or suggestions of how to think that are so close to you that you think they are yours.

UMMM Thats a real good statement I guess that might be determined by what you believe in if you believe in God then you would think that he might help you make some decisions but at the end of the day its all up to you. I wonder if its a sin if you are hypnotized into doing something.

Originally posted by ixiy

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Also I just wanted to say that you can be converted to anything; Atheism is just another form of a religion. No matter how you want to say it that is the truth. Thats something people need to realize that the belief in there being no God is still believing in something. You can make anything you religion or you god it is just a choice on what you want to worship. Right?

I understand what you are saying, people have worshipped money, science, atheism, pop stars, etc etc. and turned it into a religion.

So If I practice not worshipping anything, it is a religion of non-worshipping?

What is the difference between a practice and a religion, is it, worship?

[edit on 23-6-2007 by ixiy]

But most likely your worship is either yourself our the science in which you have been taught. So let me ask you where do you think all of this came from. Do you think its just luck that we are sitting here talking to each other about this. Or do believe in things being meant to be

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
But most likely your worship is either yourself our the science in which you have been taught. So let me ask you where do you think all of this came from. Do you think its just luck that we are sitting here talking to each other about this. Or do believe in things being meant to be

Which part of I don't worship anything do you not understand? I don't worship myself, I don't worship science, I don't worship governments, money, aliens, science, nature, etc etc.

I just do not have the urge to worship anything, do you have a hard time understanding this?

I don't have the Ego to desire worship from anyone/anything not even myself, similarly I don't worship anything to satisfy the ego of the thing, whatever it may be.

How about you? Do you have a need to worship something or someone?

Does your God truly desire your worship or is it your religion that wants you to worship this God entity?

I don't know why theists can't understand how people like us don't worship anything either, Ixiy.

We don't NEED to worship anything. We are content with our place in the universe, as beings who have evolved over long periods of time from single-celled organisms, are born, live our lives, and die knowing that there is nothing after and that this is the one and only life we get.

The universe is wonderful. It is awesome. It is not sentient, and it is not a god. Worship puts us at a disadvantage, saying we are not worthy of standing on our own merits as infinitesimal parts of an infinite universe.

Only people worship, and even then, not all people do. Of all the animal life on the planet, only we (read: you) feel the need to debase ourselves before nature and call it god. Why? Is life that frightening that a person can't make their way through it without pretending there is some being watching their every move?

In my own opinion, I believe that we as a species are moving towards non-belief in gods. We really don't need them anymore. The god concept is like a security blanket that a toddler clings to when scared. We're growing up now, and don't need the security blanket anymore.

More people will be breaking the chains of religion in their minds and standing free of superstition. It's just a matter of time.

So, to second Ixiy: Atheists do NOT worship. Anything. We see things through the lens of scientific descriptions of natural law, but there is no bible, no church, and no dogma. Dogma does not change, it does everything it can to not change. Science admits when it is ignorant and does change to fit new information. I would rather be part of an open system than a closed stagnant one.

All wrong, the whole thread is totally wrong and based on a false perception.

Definition of an atheist....
A person who does not believe in a Creator Being (God of any flavour!)

Note that the definition does not relate to any other belief, such as scientific theory, or logic, or anything else - just that we do not believe in a Creator Being or god.

To attribute anything else to an atheist is to say something extra about an individual - not necessarily of atheists collectively. Indeed in a sample of atheists, it may well be the only thing they have in common, behaviorally or intellectually.

Definition of a theist....
A person who does believe in a God. (Be it the Catholic god or the Muslim god, the Egyptian god Ra, or any other god)

Definition of a Christian...
A person who believes in one of the many Christian versions of god, but not necessarily the tenets and teachings of a particular sect of the Christian religion.

Definition of a Catholic....
A person who believes in the tenets and teachings of The Roman Catholic Church (including the Catholic version of God).

So on and so on.........and infinitum

The Winged Wombat


[edit on 24/6/07 by The Winged Wombat]

[edit on 24/6/07 by The Winged Wombat]

I know you wont admit this but if you are living your life just for you then you are worshiping yourself. Its all the same thing when you truly worship whatever God you believe in then you are living your life for that God its all worship. I is still amazing to me that people really think this came from nothing. I also have a question. Because these are things that I have considered lately. When the world gets rid of religion and everyone stops believing in God don't you think people will no longer have a fear of whats going to happen after they die; which means they will not care about what they do here. Im not sure what the percent is but its almost everyone in the world believes in some type of God. Just think if all of those people would stop believing. The world would go crazy. That is really another subject which might need another thread.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
I know you wont admit this but if you are living your life just for you then you are worshiping yourself.

do you know what the word worship means? I don't think you do.

Worship:

1.
a. The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
b. The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
2. Ardent devotion; adoration.
3. often Worship Chiefly British Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries: Your Worship.
v. wor·shiped or wor·shipped, wor·ship·ing or wor·ship·ping, wor·ships
v.tr.
1. To honor and love as a deity.
2. To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. See Synonyms at revere1.
v.intr.
1. To participate in religious rites of worship.
2. To perform an act of worship.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

So, you are, again, wrong. Atheists don't worship. Period. They just live.

Just because YOU can't conceive of a life that doesn't involve a deity, doesn't mean the rest of us can't.

When the world gets rid of religion and everyone stops believing in God don't you think people will no longer have a fear of whats going to happen after they die.

So is that your only reason for believing in a god? That you are afraid to die?

People already don't fear what happens when they die, because their heads are full of the idea of heaven. That's why there are suicide bombers -- they think they're going to heaven because they blew up other people, and get 72 virgins each.

It's religion that causes people to fear death -- because of the concept of hell.

Many atheists don't fear death and what comes after, because there is no after. I'd be lying if I said I didn't fear the process of death, because it can be painful or horrifying sometimes, depending on what you die of. But when it's over, it's over, so what's to fear in death itself? it's an end. We didn't notice or care what happened before we lived, and we won't notice or care what happens after. Because when it's over, it's over. Kaput. Finito.

Im not scared of death because it cant be worse then here. Let me as you something. What do you believe? Because until I know what you do believe then we are arguing for nothing. Where did life come from?

So is that your only reason for believing in a god? That you are afraid to die?

You know, this is a big part of organized religion. My brother in law, after many questions from his "Sociology Major" daughter, admitted to believing in God because he was afraid, at the end, God would exist and how would he explain that?
Fear.
Fear that if God DOES exist, he'll be screwed if he didn't believe.
Believe or don't.
Period.
There is no halfway.

Cuhail

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
Im not scared of death because it cant be worse then here. Let me as you something. What do you believe? Because until I know what you do believe then we are arguing for nothing. Where did life come from?

Abiogenesis and then evolution.

Let me ask YOU something: do you think god has always existed?

If so, why can you not accept that the universe has always existed and drop the creator?

Following from there, if you can't accept that the universe wasn't created, then someone had to have created god, because he can't always have existed either.

And if someone created god, then who created that creator? It goes off in infinite regression from there.

Why not just stop at the scientific explanation, that the universe has always existed and will always exist? Why does there have to be a creator?

That really is a good comment. Most people do fear God and thats what is says in the bible to do. Why wouldnt you fear your God he could snatch the life out of you. Just like most people fear the government they can snatch this life from you.

Originally posted by Mrknighttime32
That really is a good comment. Most people do fear God and thats what is says in the bible to do. Why wouldnt you fear your God he could snatch the life out of you. Just like most people fear the government they can snatch this life from you.

I thought god was supposed to be a loving god who will forgive you anything if you just ask.

So what's to fear? If you fear your god of love, then there is something really wrong. Love should not equal fear.

You fear God because without him you are nothing and you love God because without him you are nothing. When you are a child you fear your parents because they are your parents, and you love them because they are your parents

I hope my kids don't fear me, that's messed up.

I don't fear god or love god, it's possible to exist without god at all.

And, I might add, I'm happier into the bargain.

Guess what? I am an ethical person who follows a secular ideal of the golden rule, and I don't need a god to do it.

All that wasted energy, pursuing a figment of primitive man's imagination.:shk:

It boggles my mind, it really does.

Of course your kids fear you if they didnt they would not give a crap what you say. Just like you do not fear God and you could care less what he has to say. Let me ask you this you dont think it was meant to be that you had your exact kids. If the universe can spring from nothing then why cant you have a different colored baby then what you have know. Just a thought iv never said what I actually believe in, and I listen to both sides. Just like I ask if there is a God why does he not show himself I ask you the probability that everything was swirling around and one day decided to come together to from all we see today.
Please tell me if that is possible then there is just as much possibility that theres a God right?

No, god is far more statistically improbable than probable.

And my kids don't fear me. They respect me. Respect is far superior to fear.

Just like I ask if there is a God why does he not show himself I ask you the probability that everything was swirling around and one day decided to come together to from all we see today.

Did you even read the link I gave you about abiogenesis? Stuff wasn't just 'swirling around' and poof! here we are. It was a long process of many tiny steps.

It's you religious people that think we were poofed out of nothing. Excuse me, I mean to say, you were created out of mud.

Evolution explains why you don't have a "different colored baby." It's all in the DNA.

Instead of arguing with me about it, why don't you educate yourself on what is meant by evolution before you try to convince someone it doesn't exist? I educated myself on religion before I decided god didn't exist. That's how I know it's delusional.

Christians believe every other god is pretend, yes? Every other religion believes your god is pretend. I think you're all pretending.

We created god to meet a need we had when we were primitive. We didn't have science and we couldn't explain things, such as lightning, where we go when we die, where we come from when we're born.

Now we CAN explain all this stuff. The things we can't explain -- yet -- we will be able to someday. And all with science. No god necessary.

How can science tell me what happen billions of years ago when science itself was made up by humans. So you do think that all this was made up to just like you think God was made up. If people made up God I can assure you that they made up science to take Gods place you dont have to be educated to figure that out. I know about religions and I also know a little about science. Science changes sooooooo much whatever you think is real today can change tomorrow. Just like when the earth was flat. And they found out its not. What if one day they find out something did create us like another species or something im not talking about the God this earth talks about but. Another race, science is just a faulty as you think God is buddy. Close minded people never listen

and also usually something that is not true or does not have truth to it does not last thousands of years.

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
No, god is far more statistically improbable than probable.

And my kids don't fear me. They respect me. Respect is far superior to fear.

Just like I ask if there is a God why does he not show himself I ask you the probability that everything was swirling around and one day decided to come together to from all we see today.

Did you even read the link I gave you about abiogenesis? Stuff wasn't just 'swirling around' and poof! here we are. It was a long process of many tiny steps.

It's you religious people that think we were poofed out of nothing. Excuse me, I mean to say, you were created out of mud.

Evolution explains why you don't have a "different colored baby." It's all in the DNA.

Instead of arguing with me about it, why don't you educate yourself on what is meant by evolution before you try to convince someone it doesn't exist? I educated myself on religion before I decided god didn't exist. That's how I know it's delusional.

Christians believe every other god is pretend, yes? Every other religion believes your god is pretend. I think you're all pretending.

We created god to meet a need we had when we were primitive. We didn't have science and we couldn't explain things, such as lightning, where we go when we die, where we come from when we're born.

Now we CAN explain all this stuff. The things we can't explain -- yet -- we will be able to someday. And all with science. No god necessary.

I also wanted to ask you why do you think your kids respect you. There kids they might respect each other. But the fear they see of you is the respect you see. If they knew they could get away with everything and you would do nothing to them. I bet you would see that respect you feel go away very quickly. Science doesn't know even half about our ocean, science cant tell me why there is thunder. Science cant even tell me what the core of the earth is made up of, but they can tell me what happen billions of years ago. Your not stupid I can tell so why do you believe that. You do agree science is man made right.