Patriotism is mind control

Neil Peart from Rush said it best in his song Territories from the Power Windows album.

The whole wide world
An endless universe
Yet we keep looking through
The eyeglass in reverse
Don't feed the people
But we feed the machines
Can't really feel
What international means
In different circles, we keep holding our ground
In different circles, we keep spinning round and round


They shoot without shame
In the name of a piece of dirt
For a change of accent
Or the colour of your shirt
Better the pride that resides
In a citizen of the world
Than the pride that divides
When a colorful rag is unfurled

www.geocities.com...

Originally posted by wingman77
... and that is what has been utilized to twist the meaning of this virtuous word.

Agreeing on doublespeak but, patriotism cannot be a virtue, because it creates ethical paradox. (see my post on page 1)

Originally posted by YIAWETA
Sometimes it pays to look at word origins rather than Websters interpretation. Patri, latin for father essentially means that patriotism is the devotion to the father figure, or big daddy.

Interesting isn't it. But you have to grow up somethime.

You can go down to semantics I suppose. I was under the impression that we were debating whether patriotism was good or bad, not grammatical roots. But I suppose you have a point, maybe we need a new word for people who fight for freedom because it appears that the word has been hijacked. I am also uncomfortable by the fatherly connotations of the word.... I need to learn Latin.

Wingman, here's what I mean. Patriotism (to me) means that I love my country and the values and standards upon which it was founded. I support and defend the Constitution like a mother defending her young.

I DO NOT, however, sing the National Anthem or salute the flag. I don't fly the flag or follow my country's leaders regardless what they do. I do not believe that the US is infallible or that we're "Number One"!

I, too, am uncomfortable with the patriarchal origins of the word...

What is a Patriot?
The origins of the word "patriotism" give no hint of blind devotion to the leader of the country, no dogma of "my country, right or wrong." However, the word gained these meanings soon enough. As a result, to be called a "patriot" sometimes brought praise and honor, at other times ridicule and disdain.

Whether being a patriot merited praise or damnation was often very tied up in the internal political struggles of the time. Thus, for example, at just the time British colonials in North America were revolting, Samuel Johnson called patriotism "the last refuge of a scoundrel." And a few decades later a British writer said patriotism is "too often the hatred of other countries disguised as the love of our own."

I believe the negative connotation of the word patriotism is too often the hatred of other countries disguised as the love of our own...

This is NOT the patriotism I feel.

WOW

I am apparently ....

1. Evil

2. Blind

3. Under Mind Control

HUH, Never Made the Connection...

Amazing what you people can tell a person about themselves...

Semper

Jeez, Semper, I don't see where anyone said that about you. I think you might be reading some stuff that isn't there. But you didn't elaborate, so I can't really formulate a proper response.

Needless to say, I don't think anyone said you're evil, blind or under mind control.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Belfast, no, I haven't read her paper. Maybe I should, but alarms and whistles just go off when people start implying that nations should lose sovereignty and that there shouldn't be borders, et cetera. I personally don't think it's a good idea at all.

As far as patriotism is concerned, I don't think there is enough of it. Quite honestly, as an American, looking at the population here, I don't think we will be the "land of the free" even twenty five years from now. Because of the lack of patriotism in this country, I don't see anyone willing to fight for this country so that it might remain free.

I agree 100% Speaker, too many people have no idea of what freedom means and that its not free and must be fought for and paid for in blood, sweat and tears.

If were not willing to defend freedom then we dont deserve to be free.

I was just kidding BH,

Bringing some lightheartedness to the board...

Things getting too tense...

A laugh is good even if it is at me...

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
I was just kidding BH,

Bringing some lightheartedness to the board...

Things getting too tense...

A laugh is good even if it is at me...

Semper

Wheeeeew!!! Good, i thought we lost you there for a minute. My husband was/is a Marine also! Ten-HUT!
You are the most loveable and understanding person, and i admire you.

DG,

If you weren't married!!!!

Well me too....

LOL

You know I love ya.....

Your passion for what you believe is WONDERFUL and REFRESHING and I ALWAYS support you......

Semper

I think it's sad how many people confuse love of one's country with love of one's government.

I like this country, I was born here, and there's really not a whole lot wrong with it that a regime change couldn't fix. Sure, we've got too many shopping malls and not enough water, but other than that, it's a pretty fine place to call home. I'd die defending my plot of land and my family, without hesitation - but most folks wouldn't consider that patriotism (and I'm happy to say I would never consider myself a patriot).

Supporting the government just because they're the government? That's insane. Supporting the country even when it commits atrocities? Equally insane.

We all know the arguments, we've heard them since we were small. Respect your teachers, respect the police, respect your parents - because they've got fancy titles they're infallible. Nonsense, pure and utter nonsense. If your teachers molest you and the police harass you and your parents beat you, do what any sensible creature ought to do, bite back or run away.

If the government lies and steals and cheats and murders, they ought to be treated as the liars and thieves and con artists and murderers that they are - it just makes good sense.

By definition Patriotism is close to Nationalism.

Wikipedia

Patriotism denotes positive and supportive attitudes to a 'fatherland' (Latin patria < Greek patrida, πατρίδα), by individuals and groups. The 'fatherland' (or 'motherland') can be a region or a city, but patriotism usually applies to a nation and/or a nation-state. Patriotism covers such attitudes as: pride in its achievements and culture, the desire to preserve its character and the basis of the culture, and identification with other members of the nation. Patriotism is closely associated with nationalism, and is often used as a synonym for it. Strictly speaking, nationalism is an ideology - but it often promotes patriotic attitudes as desirable and appropriate.

I think Nazi's were extreme patriots - ready to die for the Fatherland.

Patriotism is therefore closely connected to Nationalism - and Nationalism is kind of saying, that my country/people/race is SUPERIOR to yours. And from here it is a very close step to racism. And I tend to disagree with that term, that my country and my people are somehow BETTER then any other living on this planet. Like Socrates said once upon a time:

I am not an Athenian or a Greek

I am a citizen of the WORLD




Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.
Hermann Goering

[edit on 25/6/07 by Souljah]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

I'd say that in about two generations, the value of patriotism will be abundantly clear to a nation of subjects.

Grady, as I stated, here in the United states, I'd be surprised if we have the freedoms we currently have 25 years from now. Honestly, with this group of youngsters that are coming up, I don't see any defenders of the luxuries that they so willfully take advantage of.

i resent that comment about the yungsters
i am 15 and i am just as politicly aware as any of yall..
seems kinda steriotypical to me..
but point well taken
pres bush is a fanatic and it will be him and his like that will inevetably be the undoing of this country and its western allys..thogh the democrats arent much better...
i dont think that the corruption that has plagued this country for the past half century is irreversable..just take alot of change and im not sure that the general american public is willing to make that change..
just my thoughts
peace..

To him in whom love dwells, the whole world is but one family. (Buddha)

I don't think you can draw a parallel between "Patriotism" and "Love". Buddha did not say this with any type of "love of country" in mind...I believe he was speaking about brotherhood of man.

I, loam, am a patriot.

I am a patriot to The Constitution of the United States of America.

In the more than 6000 years of human governance, only that document has come close to preserving the principles of justice and liberty.

Mind control is the art of certain men who would pervert the aims embodied in the Constitution... Patriotism to them is a crime against humanity, imo.


[edit on 5-7-2007 by loam]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
I'd die defending my plot of land and my family, without hesitation - but most folks wouldn't consider that patriotism (and I'm happy to say I would never consider myself a patriot).

Maybe that is the problem with those who don't think of themselves as Patriots, placing individual needs above all others. Not saying one's family should not be of utmost importance but in the grand scheme of things when people sacrifice for their fellow man or defend those who can't defend themselves it can serve a greater good. When one just takes the survivalist view of their land and family and nothing else it can be ignorant in my opinion.

When like-minded men see a common threat they band together, of course. It's a clear-cut case of benign selfishness, I think.

True patriotism is not mind control.

Loving one's country enough to put one's A double S on the line is patriotism. And it's real.

However abused it has become, rhetorically.

I see a difference between patriotism and nationalism

I love my country, but i don't love my government

Originally posted by semperfortis
WOW

I am apparently ....

1. Evil

2. Blind

3. Under Mind Control

HUH, Never Made the Connection...

Amazing what you people can tell a person about themselves...

Semper

Now that you know these things maybe you can start to do something about it. But I won't hold my breath.

Vas