Patriotism is mind control

Originally posted by Belfast Lawyer

Citizens of the world join in peace to the exclusion of our corrupt colluding dishonest murdering merciless governnments. Put the past behind - let's concentrate on today for a better future. Please.

If this were possible, nothing would change.

First you would find out you have to have the rule of law or the ensuing mayhem would be far worse than the current status quo.

Second you would find a government is necessary to write those laws.

Third you would find that a Constitution or similar document would be necessary to protect us against people gaining to much power and influence and becoming dictators.

That puts us right back where we are now.

Reality is that not all people are nice. In fact many are monsters. The world as we see it now is a result of this dark side of human nature. If you remove all the governments and controls the entire planet would become a giant killing field. If you want to make change you have to learn to use the current system instead of fighting it.

Meaningful change will come from within the current system through small incremental changes over time. The trick is to keep the whole thing together long enough for those changes to happen.

I'm sure the dude in the first post just completely ripped my line off from another thread. Way to go, plagurist.

Originally posted by Belfast Lawyer
We are all puppets of Government who lie to us. We must draw together internationally as citizens and demand peace for all. We the citizens of the world should dictate our own future. We have for too long allowed government to act in complete defiance of the people's will.

Patriotism is a govenrment tool to control you.

I dare you to read Emma Goldman on What is Patriotism. Simply google it and learn. Eyes and mind wide open.

Citizens of the world join in peace to the exclusion of our corrupt colluding dishonest murdering merciless governnments. Put the past behind - let's concentrate on today for a better future. Please.

Very good idea but i dont think the human race is ready to embrace each other in an attempt to regain some control from their individual goverments

[edit on 20-6-2007 by thesun]

Originally posted by All Seeing Guy
I'm sure the dude in the first post just completely ripped my line off from another thread. Way to go, plagurist.

Can you prove it? Is there a link? The first post at this point is un-editable so if it's copied word for word then it is indeed plagiarism.

Shattered OUT...

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
If you are not willing to die for the nation that allows you the kinds of freedom that the US allows, then you really don't deserve to live.

We don't have freedoms because governments allow it! We HAVE freedoms, they are inalienable rights.

But to address the main question.

I watched a great episode of Babylon 5 the other night. Every five years the alien race called the Drazzi divide into two "parties" if you will. Then, for a specified period of time they fight it out, but not to the death. Whichever side wins the most engagements is the ruling party for the next five years. Here's the thing, they divide up the population by having every Drazzi pull a sash from a bag, half the sashes are green, half purple. So, as the human commander on Babylon 5 tries to resolve the issue peacefully she is repeatedly prevented from doing so due to the illogically nature of the Drazzi dispute. At one point they explain it to her in a way that DOES make sense, although she doesn't get. The Drazzi say "But you do the same thing on your planet, you fight for flags.". The human commander argues that flags mean something, but thats the thing, they don't. I'm expected to worship a flag because the laws of chance landed me where I am? To me that is a bizare idea.

But Grady, although I could give a crap about the U.S.A or any other fictitious entity people bow down to, I will absolutely die for my rights. See, the Bill of Rights was what a few of our forefathers thought were the rights of all mankind, not just americans. So I'll die for my rights and the rights of those around me. But I expect to die in the not to distant future because I believe in those rights and will never bow down before any man or man-made entity.

Vas

At first, a Patriot is a scarce man, hated and feared and scorned. But at the time his cause succeeds, the timid join him, because then it cost nothing to be a Patriot.

Unfortunately we have a world full of people who are timid, and who think "patriotism" is worshipping the powers that be, even when it is clear their actions are detrimental to the species.

I fully believe we are headed for a second revolution, they have run us over for too long and its time for a change.

I pity people, because most people have no faith in themselves, in God, or in their species...so they give up hope, its useless we humans will never have freedom and peace. That is a fallacy, you should end that twisted belief system now, if you have it.

If you want to do something to better the world, make sure YOUR world, your personal world, is operating under love and light. If we all do that, this world can change overnight. Its actually not that hard to do, we just think it is.

We dont need quitters, we dont need people who dont have faith, we dont need fence-sitters, people who arent sure what to believe.

We need action, we need justice, we need courage and truth. We need people standing up for peace and justice, for freedom and prosperity, and most of all, we need people to stand up against the tyrannical puppet governments of the world all under the control of an evil Elite.

If you are one who says nothing is happening, nothing will change, theres no use in trying because we wont change things, please...do not complain! Do not complain about the world and about the people on it, if you do absolutely nothing to change things, to spread light and truth, because you view yourself as powerless.

If you do nothing to better your world, do not complain when you see negative things happen in your world. Please, dont.

I dont even see why its debated. We are under attack, we are being deceived and manipulated, this world is in a dire state.

If we had any kind of courage and unity, we would all get together and fix the problems on this place, because we are 6 billion strong, we can do create this world into whatever we want.

Its just weve given our power away for so long, we forgot we have the power to change things. It all comes from a lack of unity and strength, within each and everyone of you.

As long as you view yourselves as disconnected from each other, we will not achieve anything. We are one. The only thing that keeps us from being united and having courage....is the illusion of fear and division that exists only in our minds.

We have the power to change things, and we will. If you dont believe we can, you wont be part of the force that does change the world, and you better be on your knees thanking us who cared, and had the strength to do what you wouldnt do...believe in humanity and try to better this world for everyone....

In love and light.

[edit on 20-6-2007 by LightWorker13]

Patriotism is the support for your country not necessarily the government. I admit the government has gone alil crazy and we are losing some freedoms, but we have been here before after wars and such. We have a cycle. Look at the US or any country as something your would find in nature. An animal can be beat down for a generation or to but it soon adapts and is stronger then it was and can now reject whatever is plaguing it. We go through that same cycle and I believe the will of people will always overcome a tyrannical regime.

I see patriotism as not a tool of the government for control. It is hard to define patriotism but i think the best way to see it is in the character Captain America. He doesn't fight for government but for the American dream. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Not afraid stand against those who want to destroy those values, whether they are foreign or domestic.

It is an odd way to define patriotism but i think if anyone is familiar with that character you will know exactly what I am talking about. I believe in the constitution and preserving the freedoms our founding fathers and subsequent generations have fought and died for. We may not always agree but that is how it is supposed to be.

Originally posted by ShatteredSkies

Originally posted by All Seeing Guy
I'm sure the dude in the first post just completely ripped my line off from another thread. Way to go, plagurist.

Can you prove it? Is there a link? The first post at this point is un-editable so if it's copied word for word then it is indeed plagiarism.

Shattered OUT...

Out where? Looking for the guyz, lolz.

pa·tri·ot
–noun
1. a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
2. a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, esp. of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
3. (initial capital letter) Military. a U.S. Army antiaircraft missile with a range of 37 mi. (60 km) and a 200-lb. (90 kg) warhead, launched from a tracked vehicle with radar and computer guidance and fire control.

Patriotism is a word that was coined during the time of the American Revolution, Patriots were those that fought for the creation of a new nation based on those inalienable rights we call freedom. Patriotism is not nationalism, although many people confuse it as such. Nationalism is a selfish feeling of superiority while Patriotism is a love of freedom and the desire for others to share it with us.

Patriotism is not mind control, doublespeak is, and that is what has been utilized to twist the meaning of this virtuous word.

Most sad thing is, in the name of patriotism most of the Americans abandoned most of the rights real patriots fought for from 1776 on. I wonder what would George Washington or Abraham Lincoln say to people in power today.

Call to true patriotism and to live in peace is a good sign there is still some sane and educated people left.

GradyPhillpot,

You're taking things just a bit too far for saying if you're not a patriot you dont deserve to LIVE.

I had a comment too, but i dont think your comment is appropriate. Everyone deserves to live- Maybe you meant you dont deserve to live HERE. That, I agree with and understand.

Thank you all for your important and heartfelt comments. I am glad people are asking the quesion of what Patriotism actually means.

Dictionary definition of Patriot is 'a person who is devoted to and ready to support or defend his or her country'.

My sceptic mind would translate that as being 'devoted to the place created and governed by the powers that be'.

I feel more allegiance to like minded individuals than to people according to their place of birth / residence.

It appears that patriotism to one person does not necessarily mean the same to another. As a Patriot - what is it you are actually defending and more importantly at what cost (to others)?

Is it something you know or something you have been told?

Speaking of plagiarism...

Originally posted by LightWorker13
At first, a Patriot is a scarce man, hated and feared and scorned. But at the time his cause succeeds, the timid join him, because then it cost nothing to be a Patriot.

-said by Mark Twain

All Seeing Guy, the words "patriotism is mind control" have been written and said by many people.

Here in 2003
Here in April of this year

Perhaps the OP got his idea for this thread from you, perhaps not. Do you have something to add to the subject of the thread?

wingman77, thanks for adding the definition of patriotism. And I agree, there's a big difference between patriotism and nationalism.

Originally posted by wingman77
Patriotism is not mind control, doublespeak is, and that is what has been utilized to twist the meaning of this virtuous word.

Well-said!

Originally posted by Vasilis Azoth


We don't have freedoms because governments allow it! We HAVE freedoms, they are inalienable rights.

Really? Go tell that to the socialist governments of Cuba or China. See where you wind up.

[edit on 21-6-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Whoever is accusing me of plagarism - I embrace you. For they say great minds think alike.

Please direct me to your link .

The greatest gift anyone could ever give me would be to spread my opinion and beliefs to a wider audiance.

So either provide me with your evidence that I took your words and then thank me

or if you are unable to do so

I thank you for the greatest compliment I have ever received.

Sometimes it pays to look at word origins rather than Websters interpretation. Patri, latin for father essentially means that patriotism is the devotion to the father figure, or big daddy. Big daddy will guide you as long as you have an unwavering devotion to him , in that he's all knowing and couldn't possibly forsake his children. It's derived from the notion that all children need that guidence and in most cases no matter how aweful the father maybe the children still hold out hope for their father's love and acknowledgements. The black souls who steer us know us better than we know ourselves. It really is the hammer in the government toolbox.

Please google 'why is patriotism not necessarily healthy' and read the first
article. Sorry I don't know how to provide a link.

I stand by the late Emma Goldman's brave paper on 'what is patriotism'. Her legacy describes her as an anarchist.

I on the otyherhand see her as one of the greatest and bravest thinkers of her time.

Source

Children are taught, in a system of mass education generally based on a national curriculum, that they are 'British' or 'German' or whatever and encouraged to identify with the nation state. They are taught about national heroes and their great deeds, and the nation's triumphant history (countries like Germany where school history education tends to dwell on the darker side of the nation's past are an exception).

Feelings of belonging are reinforced with national flags, national anthems and--of course--national sports teams. The average citizen is in no real sense responsible for the success of a national sports team, but believing that the glory of 'their' team reflects on them increases the sense of membership of the nation.

Adults, too, are constantly reminded that they live in a particular nation state by the media in processes such as using collective personal pronouns (what the sociologist Michael Billig calls "flagging the homeland daily"): it is no coincidence that certain British newspapers typically refer to "our boys" in reference to a national football team.

Very interesting article. I've always been very uncomfortable with the way people identify with "their group", be it political party, race or nation as a sports team...

I am up with the original post.
personal accountability.
Local government.
no nations.
no world leader.
nothing bigger then local townships are now.
fantasy world I live in
personal accountability
each neighbour knows each neighbour.
family centered
man I live in a dream world

Most in top levels of gov just want to keep their jobs. the rest dont care..about ANYTHING....honestly after 2 years at GAO as a college kid I learned that gov is just like its buildings....dull and big..nothing more...Being a patriot is fine gives people a sense of being a part of something, gives them a chance to puff out their little ape chests.