Ireland, Civil War at home, Revolution Abound

It has nothing really to do with the IRA, it has everything to do with the blind support people have for there countries even though they do the same thing. The point is, we all need to hold everyone, no matter if its the IRA, the Islamic Jihad, any terrorist you can name, Tony Blair, George Bush, etc. to the same standards. You call the IRA utter scum and the other names I mentioned earlier, but you SUGAR COAT your countries involvement in killing THOUSANDS of innocent civilians all over the world. I dont. The leaders of the US should be brought up on charges in court for the harm they have caused the world, as well as all your leaders. YOUR COUNTRY IS NOT ANY BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE. PERIOD. You can say it is but than you cant be blind to your countries atrocities as you call out everyone else's.

Edit: neformore - I missed you long diatribe about your experience with the truck bomb. Why dont you have the same furry and anger when you Government is doing things that make that truck bomb look like a fire cracker. Instead, you throw your "every one is ignorant" crap and back it up with NOTHING. You haven't made one post to justify this, instead you give a "one liner" about you dont AGREE with Tony Blair. Come on. This isn't so hard. Be open minded that the two main super powers, the US and the UK, have and are systamaticly destroying so much more people, resources, etc than the IRA could even dream of. Yet, again, you sugar coat anything your Gov. does but lambaste a small group of terrorists who want to get back at there oppressors.

As far as the topic, the IRA is not as powerful as it once was and its influence has now been included in the election process which if allowed before, alot of killings would not have happened. The British government ALLOWED, its not there country so I dont see how they needed to be ALLOWED, Sinn Fein and Gary Adams were the main IRA faces which, like I said, were in the political process from the beginning alot of blood shed would not have happened. The IRA is a direct cause of a oppressive Foreign Government body OCCUPYING what should be a sovereign country. Hell, the British have killed MILLIONS OF INNOCENT IRISH.

[edit on 16-6-2007 by hoochymama]

Originally posted by irishguy
Lets look at this another way for a second.

The British government and the majority of those living in England, Scotland and Wales would love to be shot of Northern Ireland.

This I agree with. But most northerns, both catholic and prodestant, don't want to be part of a united Ireland and the republic probably don't want us either.

The population here is split almost 50/50 Protestant/Catholic now and yet the vast majority would chose to keep the status quo. Generally, those that wouldnt are from the ghettos of the Falls Road/Shankill Road where they are conditioned by the paramilitaries that everything that is wrong is the fault of "the other side".

This part I take slight umbrage with. I am from, what you call a "ghetto", now I don't know if you were trying to be disengenuous with the remark but I take offence. I don't know about other people.

My circle of friends and work colleagues would be quite wide and representative of the province overall.

I take it none of your work colleagues live in these ghettos you refer to?

Originally posted by hoochymama
I dont think I, as a Irish-American
.....
my second country

Please grow up. As an american citizen Ireland may be in your heritage but is NOT your "second country." You are ignorant and biased to the issues, and I wish you would take that damn caps lock off!

Thanks.

Originally posted by hoochymama
You call the IRA utter scum and the other names I mentioned earlier, but you SUGAR COAT your countries involvement in killing THOUSANDS of innocent civilians all over the world.

I do? Really? Well I must be schitzophrenic then. Please, link anything that I've posted that does what you describe above.

Here. Heres a link to every thread I've created

Neformores Threads

Show me where in there.

Or hey.- do a search on my name on ATS...

Neformore search

Theres lots of threads there. Show me where I sugar coat my countries involvement in killing thousands of people.

I haven't. You can't.

Originally posted by spliffy


is this a threat

because you make me laugh
you must be a very big guy

come where

i am here in the north

No its not a threat, But i think comparing Irish people to Saddam is just a freaking tad much
And no im not a big guy , how did you get that from my post? did i say you i would come a beat you,no? lol

Yes exactly you live in the north, and from the sounds of it you in support of the British so you have NO idea what its like for scumbags like the black and tans or the UVF to come knocking to your door and murder your relatives and friends

so SHUT UP

PS: neformore while i may not agree with all off your opinions ,you have a KICKASS avatar , never have i been so happy to look at a union jack! hehe

[edit on 16-6-2007 by Disgustipated]

SteveR - Again, reverting to name calling. You don't need to do that to get a point across. I thought we were past that.


neformore - In this thread. You sugar coat everything that involves your country yet lambaste everyone else's. Read the post above Mr SteveR.

PS: I use caps to make my point, I dont use caps in every post nor do I use it in a whole post. I use it correctly.

Originally posted by budski

I'd like to ask how many people here are paddy's?

And how many people here have had experience of a terrorist attack?

I'm a "Paddy" (can that be construde as racism?) I grew up living in a "ghetto" in west Belfast and was here during the "troubles" and witnessed/ experienced many vile acts being committed on all sections of our community by each others percieved foes, and I do include the British soldiers in this. Some of those poor squadies seen things nobody should have to witness or endure.

I'm a "Paddy" (can that be construde as racism?)

No im paddy and proud , its NOT racism , and this is NOT a one liner

Originally posted by neformore
Anyone who has looked at the Youtube Video I posted earlier, which shows the detonation of a 3,300lb bomb in the middle of Manchester City Centre on 11.16am on Saturday 16th June 1996 - in an area that was up until an hour before packed with shoppers - and still they says they support the mindless bastards who put it there quite simply is not worth the description of "human", and deserves to meet their end on the receiving end of such a device, so that they can best experience exactly what they supposedly "stand" for.

Above: neformore - The bold text is where you DONT SUGAR COAT an issue about another countries atrocities.

Originally posted by neformore
Yes. Blairs an idiot for getting involved in Iraq. Its the most stupid thing a leader of this country has done. All it will lead to is more people getting killed and probably more scenes like the one in that video.

Above: neformore - Here is where you SUGAR COAT your own countries atrocities.

[edit on 16-6-2007 by hoochymama]

This whole Irish-American thing is getting annoying,
So what Ireland is your 2nd country,
These people still feel the hate,anger and sense of violation from the British
People are people , it dosnt matter where you live, Israeli-Americans still feel the pain of there peoples suffering in Israel, same with Palestinian-Americans
Iraqi-Americans and so on

Originally posted by hoochymama
You call the IRA utter scum and the other names I mentioned earlier, but you SUGAR COAT your countries involvement in killing THOUSANDS of innocent civilians all over the world..

They are all scum. Are you really going to dispute that?

Originally posted by hoochymama
Why dont you have the same furry and anger when you Government is doing things that make that truck bomb look like a fire cracker..

I think it is very disrespectful and distasteful to refer to that terrorist attack as a firecracker. You should NOT be comparing them.

Originally posted by hoochymama
the US and the UK, have and are systamaticly destroying so much more people, resources, etc than the IRA could even dream of.

Again, thanks for showing your obvious bias.

Well if they feel that strongly about it why dont they get a plane over here and fight the british people here instead of sticking a few dollars in a tin can for terrorists

The way I see it. The British are wrong for what they've done in the past and continue to do now. However the eye for an eye mentality will get you nowhere fast.

Originally posted by hoochymama

neformore - In this thread. You sugar coat everything that involves your country yet lambaste everyone else's.

I do? So me calling the IRA scumbags is sugar coating my country?
Oh wait - I did point out the inherent hypocrisy of Americans who support the "war on terror" but think that supporting the IRA is ok - is that me sugar coating my country or pointing out an inconvinient truth?

Let me make myself clear. There are scumbags on all sides. IRA, UVF, Protestant, Catholic, Muslim, English, Irish, American. I think Bin Ladens a scumbag. I thought Saddam Hussein was a scumbag. I happen to think that Bush is a scumbag too, and that Blairs an idiot. In those respects I preach equality.

I believe that people - of all races creeds and colours should be treated equally.

I believe that dropping a 2,000lb "smart bomb" on a power station next to a housing complex from 20,000 feet is no better than detonating a 3,300lb bomb in the middle of a city centre, because "smart" refers to the guidance and not the blast radius.

I do firmly believe that if someone lives in a place, or has experienced something they are going to know more about it that someone who doesn't. I respect the views of the Irish posters on here from both sides, and I admit that atrocities have been carried out by all parties in the conflict. Does that make any of it right? No.

Originally posted by CaptainLazy
The way I see it. The British are wrong for what they've done in the past and continue to do now. However the eye for an eye mentality will get you nowhere fast.

See - now heres a typical example.

What - do tell - do the British "continue to do now" ?

Do you know what you are talking about at all?

Do you not know that the current administration in Northern Ireland is a power sharing assembly, brokered jointly by the British and Irish Governments and run by a Protestant Unionist Minister with previous links to the UPA (Ian Paisley) and a former Provisional IRA leader (Martin McGuiness)

I thought this site was about denying ignorance, not displaying it.

[edit on 16/0607/07 by neformore]

Originally posted by SteveR
They are all scum. Are you really going to dispute that?

Nope. Never did dispute it. If you actually read my posts my points have never been about the IRA and there activities.

Originally posted by SteveR
I think it is very disrespectful and distasteful to refer to that terrorist attack as a firecracker. You should NOT be comparing them.

Why should they not be compared??? I believe what the US and Britain are doing in Iraq is a terrorist act. Your right, comparing a home made 3,000 lb bomb to 5,000 lb smart bombs are not the same thing. The 5,000 lb bomb is WAY WORSE.

Originally posted by hoochymama
the US and the UK, have and are systamaticly destroying so much more people, resources, etc than the IRA could even dream of.

Originally posted by SteveR
Again, thanks for showing your obvious bias.

How is this bias considering I am from the US.

Maybe it would be best SteveR to put me back on your dreaded "ignore" list so I dont bother you so much. I am much more interested in neformore's responses.

Why does Ireland need to Power share with Britain anyway??? That was my first question and no one seems to be able to answer that one.

neformore - Can you say "Tony Blair is a scumbag who shouldnt be considered a human and should have the same thing done to him as his government has done to others". Can you say "the Queen is a scumbag and the Kings of England are Bastards who still hordes treasures from previouse Kings and Queens that England conquered many moons ago". Thats all I am saying. Even in the post above you name everyone as "scumbags" and Tony Blair is only an idiot. Call spade a spade even if its YOUR OWN COUNTRIES LEADERS.

Ireland isnt power sharing with Britain . its the political parties in Northern Ireland who are in government with each other according to the size of the vote in elections.

i did not compare irishpeople to anything
i compare terrorists (RIRA, UVF, LVF, IRA ) to the likes of saddem
no i do not support the british government nor the irish government or any other government but i do and want peace for my daughter to live

i have had a few beatens from IRA and UVF because i used to drink with catholics and Protestants, i also have been to close for comfort in a few bombings i have also lost friends from both sides because of the good fight and i still drank with my mates, unfortunatly one of my mates was beaten that hard he was left with brain damage
as far as i am concerned i am not british or irish, i am northern irish


aeionu said
[quote. A person commented saying that the OP condoned the killing of innocent people. Well to you who knows so little, research what you can on the history of MY country and see how WE the Irish citizens and rightfull owners of this land where treated by a government much like the administration in the U.S.A . I do not care for a second about any protestant that is killed in the North of Ireland. They to me are still invaders and should not be there

the only thing the british government has done against this generation is , they have not given into terrorism. todays government has not taken your land or treated you badly, they have nothing to do with you............

i still have the same friends from my drinking days from both sides and i know for a fact, if the north was took over by the south tomorrow ALL of my mates would move to england because we do not want to be run by the irish government and that includes my catholic mates
btw, these terrorists do not care who they kill, as long as they kill somebody and if that does not bother people, then we are very different people.
if i did join the british army, what do you mean " see how long you last"

i used to say that to people when i was in school
and i used it as a threat
maybe you are allowed to threaten people on ats, personally i find it sad

if i did join the british army, what do you mean " see how long you last"

I ment see how you would fair against the "scumbags" as you call them and see how long you could go before you ended up wounded or in a body bag
Not really anymore of course,since the british and IRA fighting has gone way down, But i hope you get my point this time