Ireland, Civil War at home, Revolution Abound

I honestly had no idea where to post something like this, or if it even belongs here.. so i apologize to anyone whos time I waste. anyway...

The IRA has been fighting, in my opinion, the good fight for hundreds of years. Since easter rising, things have supposedly gotten bad, then better... but now my relatives in Dublin are telling me about something they've heard underground. That there is a planned uprising of the RIRA, or the real ira as they call themselves. Supposedly, they are going to try to group up, militarize, and attack Northern Ireland. They have no problem with the protestants, and they wouldn't be doing this if it werent for the damned brits. I'm sorry, I hope I havent offended any of you. any opinions though on what this would mean?

Second now, does anyone know of that Thomas Jefferson quote? "Every few hundred years or so, if a government is left in power for too long, it will become unruly. Every generation needs a revolution to straighten out a corrupt system of government.." or something to that effect. Does anyone else think it may be time? It may be time to stop the government and their corruption, their lies, and their slander. I'm not saying I wish to hurt the president at all, i think it would be a terrible thing to do and would solve nothing but anger the entire nation. But is it time for a revolt, and what kind? Armed? Peaceful? What can we do.. Could we learn from our Irish brothers, fighting for their country? Albeit, it is a different scenario, we're not being controlled by a foreign nation, but we are being controlled by our own nation. Does anyone have any opinions on this matter? Or on a potential race war, war with Mexico or Canada, or anything of that matter? Trust me, I'm not some bigot or gun happy moron. I'm simply wondering about the future of our great nation, and what we must do, as American's, to protect and get back our civil liberties that have been stolen from us so plain, right from underneath our noses. Any response is greatly appreciated. Thanks to all.

I have'nt posted on ATS in a long while, I have to say I couldn't believe this thread and couldn't pass it up without giving my two cents!

Originally posted by blissfullignorance
The IRA has been fighting, in my opinion, the good fight for hundreds of years.

How can the killings of innocents be classed as a good fight?!

there is a planned uprising of the RIRA, or the real ira as they call themselves. Supposedly, they are going to try to group up, militarize, and attack Northern Ireland. They have no problem with the protestants, and they wouldn't be doing this if it werent for the damned brits. I'm sorry, I hope I havent offended any of you. any opinions though on what this would mean?

What of the loyalist British citizens who live in Northern Ireland? Who actually want Britain to stay in control? The 'damned' Brits aren't their causing the trouble- instead protecting it's citizens from people like the IRA.

It may be time to stop the government and their corruption, their lies, and their slander. I'm not saying I wish to hurt the president at all, i think it would be a terrible thing to do and would solve nothing but anger the entire nation. But is it time for a revolt, and what kind? Armed? Peaceful? What can we do.. Could we learn from our Irish brothers, fighting for their country?

Doesn't every Government portray those characteristics? A revolution would probably replace such extremists with exact copies- changing nothing. If you wish to protest you should be allowed to peacefully. Please don't learn half the tactics your Irish IRA brothers do to 'succeed'.

I thoroughly disagree with you, although I do appreciate the response. Good to get a good debate on here!

Now, I must say though that the british invaded us. We did not ask for it. and if the british would leave, the IRA would disband and the NI'ers would have nothing to fear. the IRA does not attack loyalists, just loyalist agitators and british controllers. Your thinking of the old IRA, where they attacked randomly. Now though, it is very formulated and they do not attack innocent people. You must remember, britain is the foreign, invading country. We are a nation attempting to gain our independence and unity once again. North Ireland wants to remain a british partisan after britain gets out then fine. But first give them a taste of unity with real ireland.


as for the homeland revolution, I agree with you to a point. I do think though that the secrecies of our government though is more than just what any nation experiences.


thanks for your opinions! hope to hear from you again

After years of lurking, this post inspired me to finally register and post.
So for that I say, thank you.

However.....

As the id implies, im from, and still live in Northern Ireland.
I am also part of the catholic community.
So I feel reasonably qualified to comment on your post.

The "Real" IRA are a splinter group, that was formed when the Provisional IRA decided to call a ceasefire. It was the RIRA who carried out the "Omagh Bombing" in August 1998.

This terrorist attack was (and I dont want to be insensitive here) our 9/11.
28 people where killed, 29 if you could the unborn baby killed while still in the womb, and 220 where injured.

As was traditional when such things happened, the terrorists gave a warning that a bomb was going to go off at a location in Omagh at one end of the main street at a particular time. The police cleared the area and moved as many people as they could to the other end of the street and safety. Unfortunately, the warning was misleading and people where actually being herded toward the bomb.

This act, was an attack on civilians of all religion, all races, and all nationalities, and was universally condemned across the world.

These people do not have support with Ireland.

Im not sure where your relative gets their information from, but I am in Dublin on a weekly basis and I can assure you anyone attacking the North would have no support.

Actually, I think the vast majority of people would welcome it, only so that this small (intelligence estimates their number to be around 50) group of murdering scumbags could be eradicated once and for all.

Quality of life, both North and South of the border is good in Ireland.
We finally have the 2 extremist parties (Sinn Fein and the DUP) not only talking to each other, but in a coalition government.

People are looking forward to a stable future where our kids can be brought up free from the tyranny of the scumbags who prey on local communities and hide behind a political mask on both sides.

The IRA, RIRA, UVF, UDA and every other offshoot that has sprung up here in NI have had very simple goals. Make money for the people at the top. Drug running, protection rackets and extortion where rife here, and to a certain extent still are as these groups have called ceasefires their members have continued to ply their trade only now the political aspect has been removed and they are simply gangsters.

So my friend, when you use phrases like "Could we learn from our Irish brothers, fighting for their country?" and "They have no problem with the protestants, and they wouldn't be doing this if it werent for the damned brits." Understand that this is not some romantic crusade where a downtrodded people rise up against their oppressor, this is drug running crimelords trying to increase their turf.

The "brits" have funded Northern Ireland for years.
Approx 85% of all income in NI is directly or indirectly put there by the british government.

Im not saying some people dont have rose tinted glasses and thing their lot would be so much better without the "brits", just that they are in fact wrong. The alternative would be so much worse.

Originally posted by BlissfullIgnorance
Now, I must say though that the british invaded us. We did not ask for it.

When?

and if the british would leave, the IRA would disband and the NI'ers would have nothing to fear. the IRA does not attack loyalists, just loyalist agitators and british controllers.

The loyalists are British! They class themselves as being British residents and don't want to be part of the Republic.

Your thinking of the old IRA, where they attacked randomly. Now though, it is very formulated and they do not attack innocent people.

The real IRA you talk of have been responsible for burglaries/ holdups and bombing of innocents, not by mistake but on purpose. Or are we talking of the 'real real IRA' are they the new freedom fighters?

To the gentleman from Northern Ireland, thank you very much for your response and its nice to see things from your perspective. To the other man, however, the british invaded ireland, taking control of us, long ago. I don't know specifics but I believe it was in the 1100's. Ireland had its own culture, currency, and lifestyle. and we continued to flourish even under control of the british dictatorship.



anyone have any views on my american revolution section?





ps. im glad i helped you register!
good to see some irish here

Originally posted by BlissfullIgnorance
To the gentleman from Northern Ireland, thank you very much for your response and its nice to see things from your perspective. To the other man, however, the british invaded ireland, taking control of us, long ago. I don't know specifics but I believe it was in the 1100's. Ireland had its own culture, currency, and lifestyle. and we continued to flourish even under control of the british dictatorship.

I'm finding it quite hard to refrain from petty insults, yet you appear to be making facts bases on little proof. As I have said and will say again, many Irish WANTED Brtain to keep her presence in the north, calling Britain a dictatorship and saying they invaded shows your own ignorance on the subject.

I'm sorry but i find that very offensive, saying I am ignorant when I do actually know what I am talking about. Many North irish wanted her presence to remain because many of them are protestant, although not all. The british are predominantly protestant.

Originally posted by BlissfullIgnorance
I'm sorry but i find that very offensive, saying I am ignorant when I do actually know what I am talking about. Many North irish wanted her presence to remain because many of them are protestant, although not all. The british are predominantly protestant.

I apologise for the wording used in my last post, I did not mean to offend you in a personal way.

I do notice a slight contradiction in your last post. You mentioned the majority of citizens in Northern Ireland wanted Britain's presence in N.Ireland- yet this is hardly the attitutude of someone being held under a dictatorship surely?

Lets look at this another way for a second.

The British government and the majority of those living in England, Scotland and Wales would love to be shot of Northern Ireland.

It is a money pit, and more has proved more hassle than it is worth over the years.

The population here is split almost 50/50 Protestant/Catholic now and yet the vast majority would chose to keep the status quo. Generally, those that wouldnt are from the ghettos of the Falls Road/Shankill Road where they are conditioned by the paramilitaries that everything that is wrong is the fault of "the other side".

My circle of friends and work colleagues would be quite wide and representative of the province overall, and the vast majority would vote against a united Ireland.

Not only that, but the vast majority of the Republic of Ireland would do likewise when the economic impact was explained, in fact even before the economics were explained i'd say they be against it anyway.

We are not living in a dictatorship, we are not oppressed and your assertion otherwise is actually quite insulting.
We are a country (north and south) that has a high quality of life and a highly educated and fairly sophisticated population.
We are not a population stuck in the 17th century, travelling in horse drawn carriages with leprachauns dancing round the streets.

At the risk of alienating half the board, there is nothing more patronising to people who have lived all thier life in Ireland than Americans professing how "Irish" they are and then telling us how oppressed we are.

If I popped up on this board and supported Al Qaeda would I get a good reception from Americans?

Your niavety is staggering on this issue.

Knights, thank for for your apology, it was not needed however. I overreacted.

Anyway, to your question about my contradiction, i view it was that is all they've ever known and its the best many of them know, much like the dictatorship in Cuba. Many people there love Fidel and the regime, however we know now it is repulsive the kind of control he has over them.

irish guy, how dare you insult me in such a way. I was born outside of County Cork and you just lump me into the category of another american? I'm as entitled to my opinion as you are. I respect you for feeling the way you do, preferring to be an offshoot of Britain, but you shoud respect me for my decision to wish for a unified 32 county Ireland. I don't wish to have it by force, but more by example, showing NI how life could be without England interfering all of the time.


Now I'm done discussing this issue, the two of you (or whoever else for that matter) that wants to continue this argument are more than welcome to. But i'd like to move onto my other half of the post, abotu an american revolution if you would. thank you both for a very fulfilling conversation and debate.

Ok, aside from the other arguments in this thread about who wants what (we all know that the majority want to remain British), lets clear one thing up.

The British Army only went into NI in the 60/70's because of attacks by Loyalists on Catholics.

Thats right...

We went there to protect the catholics.

And in true Irish style, they then turned on the Army and their protectors, so we ended up fighting both sides in that horrible mess.

Just for a bit of perspective, I was in NI in the early 80's.

Originally posted by stumason
Ok, aside from the other arguments in this thread about who wants what (we all know that the majority want to remain British), lets clear one thing up.

The British Army only went into NI in the 60/70's because of attacks by Loyalists on Catholics.

Thats right...

We went there to protect the catholics.

And in true Irish style, they then turned on the Army and their protectors, so we ended up fighting both sides in that horrible mess.

Just for a bit of perspective, I was in NI in the early 80's.

OK, so why was Britain there to begin with hundreds of years ago? Dominance? Greed? Consolidation of power? If you Brits weren't so *snip* blood thirsty and evil for so many years maybe we wouldn't be having this problem to begin with.

Ireland is NOT a republic, they are their own damned country at this point and if England relinquished their hold on NI then there wouldn't really be a need for the IRA, why won't they just give Ireland back what is rightfully theirs?

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[edit on 15-6-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by blissfullignorance

The IRA has been fighting, in my opinion, the good fight for hundreds of years.

Ah well in my opinion they are a bunch of scumbags who tried to kill me, not once, but twice, in two seperate city centres, and very nearly came close on the second attempt.

You'll have to excuse me for sounding bitter about it. I'm sure the parents of the three year old kid that got shredded by metal litter bin fragments in Warrington (the bombs were placed in litter bins at two opposite ends of the main shopping centre and timed to go off one after the other so that people would be running away from the first bomb and into the second detonation) would share my sentiments.

However, the reason I decided to post is that you haven't seemed to notice the peace process, its a Paisley/McGuiness thing these days don'tcha know. Hands across the water, all in it together peace type stuff.

The other thing I did notice - with my keen sense of English irony - is this -here you are supporting terrorists and yet you appear possibly be one of of our American Breatheren - so why aren't you threatening to carpet bomb/glassify/shuck'n'awe them?



[edit on 15/0607/07 by neformore]

Originally posted by BrokenVisage
OK, so why was Britain there to begin with hundreds of years ago? Dominance? Greed? Consolidation of power? If you Brits weren't so *snip* blood thirsty and evil for so many years maybe we wouldn't be having this problem to begin with.

Eire is hardly the innocent victim. She took part in wars against England with Scotland. Secondly, the protestants that are there are Scottish descendants, not English. so whinge at your Gaelic brothers.

As for the offensive remark, I'm sure that will be dealt with shortly.

Originally posted by BrokenVisage
Ireland is NOT a republic, they are their own damned country at this point and if England relinquished their hold on NI then there wouldn't really be a need for the IRA, why won't they just give Ireland back what is rightfully theirs?

Er, Eire is a republic. What ever gave you the idea they weren't? Do they install a King yesterday or something? England has no hold over NI, the UK does, of which NI is a part as is England.

As for "rightfully", possession is 9/10's the law, matey. If the majority want to remain British, as they do, then what claim does Eire have?

[edit on 15/6/07 by stumason]

[edit on 15-6-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

I>R>A = Terrorists = Al Qaeda = Scum Of The Earth.

blissfullignorance.

i must say i found this post very offensive.
After years off armed conflict, we are now in the situtation where all sides have reached aggreement.

This is not the time, for someone who has an obvious complete lack of Knowledge on the history of this conflict. I suggest you spend your time concentrating on the abuse of civil liberties, in your own country.

To help deny ignorance; currently, former enemies are now working together. This was unthinkable 15 years ago. the vast majority of the population of The British Isles( yes that includes the whole of Ireland) want this aggreement to suceed, all sides have had great difficutly getting to a peaceful solution.

As for revolution in America, well thats up to Americans.

btw we have one thing in common, I also was born "outside of County Cork".

The reason is that the Irish constitution says that the 6 northern counties are part of Ireland - or to that effect.

The real IRA style themselves on the old republican army which abounded for hundreds of years, with the British trying to stamp out the "rebels" - they even made it illegal to speak Irish!

what we've seen in the last century is the rise of the Provisional IRA. or Provo's

Theres a big difference between the ideologies involved

Google it (can't be bothered, pissed and a bit wasted) and you'll see.

Also, many Provo hardliners have taken this opportunity to re-start the struggle, and free Ireland from the yolk of British tyranny.
And lets not forget that the British imported Scottish protestants into NI as a way of ensuring that they couldn't lose an electio.
For many years you could hardly get a job in the occupied territory if you weren't a Prod.

For the record, I was brought up in England, but both my parents are Irish, and I've spent a lot of time over their - about 25% of my lifetime so far, and I have a lot of relatives who speak very passionately about this subject

So it's a bit confusing - cos I'm proud to be English, but I'm also proud to be Paddy, and a result of this is that I can see both points of view.

Although, in fairness, the Brits haven't got a leg to stand on.

Ireland for the Irish

BTW, stop bickering and stick to the point


[edit on 15/6/2007 by budski]

Yeah but before those Scottish Protestants went to Northen Ireland those Irish Catholics went to Scotland. Scotland was a Great Country before the Irish Catholics came here, now its not as great as it used to be with all the sectarianism, its has put a scar on the face of Scotland forever. And dont say it has not because it has.

Would you care to elaborate on that are we alone?