Video & Evidence There Was No Controlled Demo

wow ya know, maybe im alone in this,

but,

id LOVE to see that proof.

really, i would

Damocels...

I'm just reading this..... one guy cliams to have PROVEN NIST WRONG!!!

Woo hooo!! He should write to them to tell them he proved it! Im sure he mountains of YouTube and Google Video knowledge will be VERY important in determining that YES ... thermate WAS used! (sarcasm)

CaptianObvious,

Thats all you have to say? I just really hurt NIST's wild guess about 911, and thats all you had to say?

A major part of NIST's explaination is that jet fuel fires weakend the steel. Well, I have video and photo evidence that shows all of the jet fuel burned on impact.

Look:
images.google.com...

You see those fireballs?? Well guess what, if there was zero jet fuel on the jet, those fireballs would not be there. This is not hollywood where metal and concrete alone can cause an explosion, this is real life, where you actually need a fuel source to create an explosion. Guess what, all the fuel was burned on impact. I just showed you proof of that, and you have absolutly nothing to say about it?? Pathetic.


Another part of NIST's explaination is that the jet impact knocked the fireproofing off of the steel. Are you kidding me? Do you really believe that? There is not one single shred of evidence that supports this wild claim, and yet you drop to your knees and worship the idea. Why? What proof do you have that the fireproofing was knocked off? What proof does NIST have?


www.newscientist.com...

"While the buildings were able to withstand the initial impact of the aircraft, the resulting fires that spread through the towers weakened support columns and floors that had fireproofing dislodged by the impacts," says Shyam Sunder, who led the NIST investigation.

"Even with the aeroplane impact and jet-fuel-ignited multi-floor fires - which are not normal building fires - the buildings would likely not have collapsed had it not been for the fireproofing that had been dislodged," he says.

You see, NIST's wild guess is all based on their assumption that the fireproofing was knocked off. Thats it. It all comes down to the fireproofing. Read the above quotes... Shyam Sunder the leader of the NIST investigation said it himself, that the buildings probably would still be standing...

Now, do you people know anything about this fireproofing?? Do you understand how incredibly difficult it would be for fireproofing to juts fall off? Well, James Quintiere, of the University of Maryland, US, kn ows, and he says "he does not understand how fireproof insulation could have been dislodged from the buildings' floors and columns."

Heck even Barbara Lane, leader of the Structural Fire Group at UK engineering company Arup spoke for the entire group and says "[We] don't believe that [the dislodging of fireproof material] has been substantiated in any of the published data to date.” That means they haven't gotten any evidence from NIST that the fire proofing was knocked off.. NO PROOF AT ALL.

How in the world can anyone believe a single word from NIST?? The have nothing more than pictures and videos.

Read this:
www.fire.nist.gov...

Then this:

wtc.nist.gov...

It explains how their entire investigation is relying mainly on photos and video. THATS IT. This proves that NIST's report is not to be used as fact, like most of you sheep are doing, because the entire NIST report is based on WILD GUESSES.

NIST = JUNK

If anyone who read the NIST reports had half a brain, they would have known that NIST has no more information than anyone with an internet connection.






[edit on 25-6-2007 by 11 11]

Agreed, NIST is government suported and the ones that are not, well no one bothers with them cause they say they have no proof... lol niether does NIST and thats why I said there studies were incomplete. You can even see by there 3D demo, they missed so much info that would have changed NIST's outcome of there findings.

And as for the explosion blowing off the Asbestus... even if it did, the fires where never hot enough to melt steel, and thats what would have been needed to bring down the towers the way they fell. And yes, the fuel was completely burt up withing the first 2 min of impact, hardly long enough to do anything to the metal frames.

Even if the plane knocked off some asbestos, it would not have caused a complete global collapse to its foundations.

How many floors did the plane impact? 4? So what if it knocked off fire-proofing on all 4 floors, how does that explain the complete global collapse?

How could the fires on the higher floors effect columns on the lower floors?

Also NIST claims the fires spread throughout the buildings, this is not true. There were no fires bellow the impact points. So what caused the columns to fail throughout the whole building, equally and at the same time?

Also an aluminum plane that just went through steel columns wouldn't have much energy left to 'knock off' fireproofing imo.

BRAVO! you saw a fireball...yet ...did you bother to look INSIDE???

ALL the jet fuel was gone? Funny NIST and FEMA had estimated about 30-40%...but hey.. i will listen to YOU over 186 Engineers!!

Why dont you look into the fireballs in th e elevator shafts
that were in BOTH towers.



[edit on 25-6-2007 by CaptainObvious]

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
BRAVO! you saw a fireball...yet ...did you bother to look INSIDE???

ALL the jet fuel was gone? Funny NIST and FEMA had estimated about 30-40%...but hey.. i will listen to YOU over 186 Engineers!!

Why dont you look into the fireballs in th e elevator shafts
that were in BOTH towers.

Well try dumping 5 gallons of Gasoline on a fire, and see how long it takes for the gas to burn out. Aviation Fuel of whatever it's called has a much higher Octane level and would burn up allot faster than Gasoline. Not to mention they claim the jets only had 45% fuels onboard.

Originally posted by SpaceBits
And as for the explosion blowing off the Asbestus...

I need to correct you here:

The fact is, there was only asbestos in WTC 1 from the ground up to the 38th floor. On April 13, 1970, New York City issued restrictions on the application of sprayed thermal insulation containing asbestos. The use of BLAZE-SHIELD Type D was discontinued in 1970 at the 38th floor of WTC 1. BLAZE-SHIELD Type D was not used on WTC 2. Thermal protection of the remaining floors of WTC 1 and all of WTC 2 was carried out using BLAZE-SHIELD Type DC/F, a product that contained mineral wool in place of the crystalline asbestos fibers. On the basis of tests, it was reported that the thermal properties of BLAZE-SHIELD Type DC/F were equal to or "slightly better" than those of BLAZE-SHIELD Type D.


Here is some fun facts from NIST:

wtc.nist.gov...

"Because both towers totaly collapsed on September 11, 2001, and most of the sprayed fire-resistive material (SFRM) was either dislodged or abraded (or scraped) off in the collapse, no examples remain of the "as installed" condition of the SFRM."

You know what that means? They have no clue what happend to the fireproofing after the impact of the jets. That also means they have zero evidence that supports their theory.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
BRAVO! you saw a fireball...yet ...did you bother to look INSIDE???

ALL the jet fuel was gone? Funny NIST and FEMA had estimated about 30-40%...but hey.. i will listen to YOU over 186 Engineers!!

Why dont you look into the fireballs in th e elevator shafts
that were in BOTH towers.

Don't be so, well...obvious.

Ok, let's get real here.

Jet fuel didn't bring down those buildings. Period. I hope that's an attempt at levity.

We are not children here, we've been over this ground a thousand times.

Read some prior threads before posting what is simply not true.

As for the good ol' jet-fuel-down-the-elevator-shafts argument: the WTC towers had 2 sky lobbies, and no elevator ran the full length of the building.
You had to get off and change an elevator to get to the top.

Let's put this out on its own: No elevator shafts went the entire length of the building.

Why? Most importantly, so that fires couldn't spread throughout the building.

And less importantly, to make people with insulting avatars look like the know-nothings they are.

Next.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
BRAVO! you saw a fireball...yet ...did you bother to look INSIDE???

ALL the jet fuel was gone? Funny NIST and FEMA had estimated about 30-40%...but hey.. i will listen to YOU over 186 Engineers!!

Why dont you look into the fireballs in th e elevator shafts
that were in BOTH towers.

LOL what a joke.

video.google.com...

Watch the video above. The fire ball starts on the inside, and because all of the fuel is being combusted, the explosion from the inside, actually expands to the outside.... ALL OF THE JET FUEL IS BURNED ON IMPACT.

Please explain to me why some, but not all, the fuel would burn when all of the fuel is coming from the same place?? Generaly, when you have a gas tank, and you purposly blow it up, ALL OF IT is blown up, not just 60% of it.

You, and all of those 186 engineers have absolutly no clue what they are talking about....

Also, the elevator shafts were designed to be AIR TIGHT so that fire can not spread through them. There were no fireballs in the elevator shafts. If there was, they were 3rd party explosions from other sources other than jet fuel. Which could be evidence of controlled demolition.


That said:

Please show me 186 engineers claiming there was 30-40% unexploded jet fuel in the towers. Then show me your proof of the fireballs in the elevator shafts.

[edit on 25-6-2007 by 11 11]

Maybe they just need to watch the video the building of the WTC building, and see how these towers were built. It might give them a new perspective on how solid thes buildings were.

Wow...you can all watch a fireball and GUESS how much of the est. 28K gallons burned up?

I should just ignore the EXPERTS and stick to listening to Google University Graduates...



Oh..how about some eyewitness testimony....


I have posted some of these facts in the past....

A survivor from a floor in the 80s: “The entire corridor became an inferno outside our front door. Smoke began to enter our office. There was also debris falling. ... The fire on the corridor was at least 10 ft high, and it ran the … good length of the corridor. Then I saw a fireball come down the elevator shaft and blew the elevator doors. The fireball came right at me; it was a really bright color. Interview 1000055 (NIST 2004)

78th Floor NT Carmen Griffith (Wife of freight elevator operator Arturo Griffith):

Then the first plane hit. “The elevator doors closed, and I heard ‘Bang! Bang!’” says Carmen. “We were trying to get the door open.” With the door just half-open, Carmen squeezed out into a smoke-filled corridor. As she looked back to tell her passengers that it was safe to exit, a plume of fire seared her face, hands and legs.

34th Floor

Jimmy Loughran : "The whole building began to sway about six of seven feet each way. It was like being rocked around in a boat," he said.
"Everybody froze, we didn't know what had happened. Then there was a massive explosion, it must have been the fuel from the plane exploding after the initial impact.

Lobby

“I saw a couple of elevators in free fall; you could hear them whizzing down and as they crashed, there was this huge explosion, like a fireball exploding out of the bank of elevators,” Kravette said. “People were engulfed in flames.”

4th Sub-basement: blast 30 seconds after impact.

Edward McCabe: I was in the refrigeration plant in tower 1 sub basement 4. I was passing through when I felt a slight shifting of the building. I froze right where I stood and listened....nothing.. about 30 seconds past (sic) and to my left about 30 feet from me was a stairway leading up to a door. this door explodes off its hinges and white smoke came into the plant. I later on found out the reason there was an explosion was the jet fuel filled the elevator shaft and seconds later a spark triggered an explosion.

South tower lobby, An Elevator Engineer:

As I turned around to go back toward the core of the building in the lobby, the second plane hit, and that shook the building.

We heard the explosion and within a matter of seconds after that impact, I heard – and as well as everybody else heard – this noise, this increasing sound of wind. And it was getting louder and louder. It was like a bomb, not quite the sound of a bomb coming down from a bomber. It was a sound of wind increasing, a whistling sound, increasing in sound.....
What we heard was 6 and 7 car free-falling from the 107th floor and they impacted the basement at B-2 Level. And that’s the explosion that filled the lobby within a matter of two or three seconds, engulfed the lobby in dust, smoke.

And apparently from what I talked to with other mechanics, they saw the doors, the hatch doors blow off in the lobby level of 6 and 7 car.... And the noise, the wind noise we heard was, you have to picture that there are two cars or cabs in a hoist length. And a hoist weighs only so big, and it’s encapsulated by walls, so as these two cars came, fell together, the air pressure underneath would cause that sound that we heard."

This is when the explosion came.

It progressed down the building, breaking the windows as it went; the entire building was groaning, an unnatural, unearthly sound, much like a can squeezing, or cracking uncooked spaghetti. By the time it reached the lobby, the marble veneer was cracking and falling off the walls; the chandeliers shattered on the floors along with the plaster ceiling, and the force imploded in at about 50 mph, pulling metal, balled safety glass, and other material with it. The pipes were bursting over my head and dense materials were flying around me as if they were being pureed in a blender. In the next instant came a horrible noise and a flash of extreme heat and light blown directly over my head. I concluded later in the day that this was from the huge airplane fireball sent down the 78-110 elevator shaft that exploded out into the lobby, and blew around the walls and curled into the center vestibule where I was taking cover.
...The two officers and I were the only ones who made it out alive.

...As the debris and dust settled, water started to rain down, and black smoke began to roll through with the strong smell of jet fuel in what was left of a once beautiful lobby

www.rightnation.us...

I did NOT say EVER that Jet fuel took down the towers. My argument is that not all the jet fuel was burned off in the original fireball.

Here is more proof of that fact:



Lobby & 3rd floor: Firefighter Peter Blaich

As we got to the third floor of the B stairway, we forced open an elevator door which was burnt on all three sides. The only thing that was remaining was the hoistway door. And inside the elevator were about I didn’t recognize them initially, but a guy from 1 Truck said oh my God, those are people. They were pretty incinerated. And I remember the overpowering smell of kerosene. That’s when Lieutenant Foti said oh, that’s the jet fuel. I remember it smelled like if you’re camping and you drop a kerosene lamp.

www.firehouse.com...

Ronnie Clifford and Jennianne Maffeo

At around 8.45am, Ronnie walked into the lobby of the Marriott, which was connected to the lobby of the north tower by a revolving door.......The zipper of what had once been a sweater had melted into her chest, as if it were the zipper to her own body. Her hair had been singed to a crisp steel wool. With her, in the gust of the door, came a pungent odour, the smell of kerosene or paraffin, Ronnie thought.

www.unison.ie...

(Vasana) Mutuanot was in the lobby of Tower One when she heard the first explosion. Thinking it was a bomb like the terrorist attack in 1993, she turned to run, looking over her shoulder as flames leaped from a freight elevator shaft cooking her back and legs and right cheek. "It was a fireball with sand and heat, like a hurricane of fire," she said.

www.chron.com...

“I saw a couple of elevators in free fall; you could hear them whizzing down and as they crashed, there was this huge explosion, like a fireball exploding out of the bank of elevators,” Kravette said. “People were engulfed in flames.”

www.engr.psu.edu...

The doors parted, but the elevator had become stuck just as the bottom of the cab was reaching the lobby of the south tower. Only the feet of the trapped passengers were visible as the burning jet fuel that had cascaded down the shaft ahead of them threatened to broil them alive.

asrlab.org...

Firefighter Timothy Brown: We finally set up -- prior to this I believe it was the west side of the core of the building there were elevators. Someone had come to me and said that there were people trapped in one of those elevators. So I ran around the corner, and the hoist way doors were open, but the elevator car was only showing about two feet at the top of the door. You could see all the legs of the people that were in the elevator. I would guess there were about eight people in the elevator. The elevator pit was on fire with the jet fuel.

hosted.ap.org...

Firefighter Terence Rivera:

As I got off the back -- the back step, there were a few individuals that were civilians that were outside that were burnt. There was a -- he wasn't a regular security guard. He had a weapon on him. I don't know if he was FBI or Secret Service and he was trying to put the pants out on one individual that was conscious. His pants were still smoldering. I took the can, fire extinguisher off the truck and then sprayed down the pants on the person that was still conscious.
At that time, I had asked him where did this individual come from. He told me when the plane had hit, a fire ball had shot down the elevator shaft and had blown people out of the lobby.

graphics8.nytimes.com...

Firefighter Joseph Casaliggi:

We went into the lobby. The lobby actually looked like the plane hit the lobby. From what I understand, I was told afterwards, that a fireball shot down the elevator shaft and blew out all the windows in the lobby and blew out the elevator doors.

hosted.ap.org...

Greg Manning:


For those of you who may not know the story, she was entering the lobby of the North Tower of the World Trade Center when a fireball exploded from the elevator shaft. She and two others managed to run out of the building, all three of them on fire. A passerby across the street ran to them, reaching Lauren [Manning] first, and put the flames out. He then put Lauren in an ambulance, so she was the first person evacuated. He certainly saved her life.
www.randomhouse.com...

Lauren Mannings interview with Larry King:

Lauren Manning: Building one.
And as I walked into the building, the plane had hit -- I imagine as I was getting out of the cab -- and the fuel just poured down.
LARRY KING: You never got into the building?
L. MANNING: No, I got into the building. I walked into the lobby. As I was turning toward the elevator banks, the fireball exploded out and caught me from behind, and literally pushed me toward the doors as I was running, and...
KING: You kept running?
L. MANNING: Oh, I kept running through the initial panel of doors, through the revolving doors, outside, and my only desire was to -- you know, you think of anything having to do with fire is try to find a way to put it out. So I was running across the street to this grassy median area, and...
KING: You remember all this?
L. MANNING: I remember everything vividly. The, you know, people around me, the debris that began falling, and it was...
KING: Did you pass out eventually?
L. MANNING: No.

I don't see any proof, I just see a bunch of text.

Can you prove to me that those quotes were not fabricated? If they are not fabricated, can you prove to me that those things they talk about actually happened?

Come on, jet fuel on the 3rd floor??? It has to be from another source.



[edit on 25-6-2007 by 11 11]

Please take a peek at these numbers:

64 people on 43 levels below the impact zones reported smelling or contacting jet fuel/kerosene on these floors
North Tower: 87, 85, 83, 81, 78, 63, 62, 60, 57, 53, 52, 47, 46, 40, 39, 36, 35, 34, 33, 29, 27, 25, 13, 12, 9, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, Plaza level, Concourse, B1, B6, and one unknown floor.
South Tower: 75, 74, 68, 61, 40, 25, Plaza Level, Concourse.

33 people on 18 levels below the impact zones reported seeing fireballs coming from elevator shafts or down hallways
North Tower: 91, 88, 85, 83, 82, 81, 78, 77, 7, Plaza Level, Concourse, B1, B4, Basement (unknown level).
South Tower: 75, 70, Plaza level, Concourse.


29 people on 19 levels below the impact zones described fires on these floors
North Tower: 89, 88, 85, 83, 81, 78, 77, 72, 53, 46, 45, 22, 4, Plaza level, Concourse, Unknown upper levels.
South Tower: 50, Concourse.

49 people on 23 levels below the impact zones reported seeing elevators/shaft doors blown out or severely damaged.
North Tower: 89, 88, 86, 85, 83, 82, 81, 78, 77, 45, 22, 3, Plaza Level, Concourse, B1, B4, Basement (unknown levels).
South Tower:78, 74, 44, Concourse, one unknown level.

8 people on 4 levels below the impact zones were burned in elevators and survived (does not include ST 78th floor)
North Tower:78, Concourse, B1.
South Tower: Concourse.

14 people on 9 levels below the impact zones survived burns or other injuries from blasts from elevator shafts
North Tower: 89, 88, 85, 83, 78, Concourse, B1, B4, B6.

26 people on 17 levels below the impact zones reported fallen elevators (11 were in the elevators and survived).
North Tower: 91, 88, 78, 47, 42, 27, 15, 7, Concourse, B1, B4, Basement (unknown level), Unknown upper levels.
South Tower: 19, 12, Concourse.

13 (non-deaf) people on 12 levels below the impact zone didn’t hear the aircraft impact/explosion on their building
North Tower: 88, 81, 72, 62, 60, 50, 35, 34, 28, 8, Concourse, B6.

48 people on 29 levels below the impact zones described significant secondary damage (walls down, doors jammed, broken pipes, stairwells disintegrating, etc. Not intended to suggest structural damage.)
North Tower:88, 85, 83, 82, 81, 78, 77, 76, 72, 71, 63, 40, 30, 29, 22, 21, Plaza level, Concourse, B1, B4, B6, Basement (level unknown) South Tower: 76, 70, 68, 67, 40, Plaza level, Concourse


As a previous poster said... "NEXT"

CaptainObvious,

I still only see text, that can easly be fabricated. No proof.

Originally posted by CaptainObvious


64 people on 43 levels below the impact zones reported smelling or contacting jet fuel/kerosene on these floors
North Tower: 87, 85, 83, 81, 78, 63, 62, 60, 57, 53, 52, 47, 46, 40, 39, 36, 35, 34, 33, 29, 27, 25, 13, 12, 9, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, Plaza level, Concourse, B1, B6, and one unknown floor.
South Tower: 75, 74, 68, 61, 40, 25, Plaza Level, Concourse.

You are telling me that 64 people in WTC's actually know what jet fuel smells like?

[edit on 25-6-2007 by 11 11]

Well these Interviews are flawed, one sais he was at 80th floor and seen the smoke but the woman on the 78th floor scorches her face due to fire ball?
Another claim 2 ellevators fell from 107th floor to the b2(basement lvl2)?
Imposible, the towers where built in 3 sections and no ellevator went from top to bottom. and if gas did go down the ellevator shaft what are ppl doing in the shaft to have witnessed this? also if the gas did go down the shaft who cares... there was absolutly nothing in there that could catch fire, and i hardly belive the gas would have gotten any further down the shaft than 30 floors or so, the fuel burns up too fast.

WTF .... they say KEROSENE!!! What do you think Jet Fuel is mostly made of!

I have ALL the links to the interviews.

This is the thread ...www.abovetopsecret.com...

NIST NCSTAR 1-7 (Occupant Behavior, Egress, and Emergency Communication)
wtc.nist.gov...

or NIST NCSTAR 1-5 (Reconstruction of the Fires in the World Trade Center Towers).


wtc.nist.gov...

SpaceBits, its obvious most of the quotes were fabricated. That is why I don't care about them 1 second. They are not proof nor is it evidence. If you are basing your beliefs on word of mouth from people, you are insane.




That said, I would like to add that I do not think CaptainObvious has any clue what he is talking about. Why? Because he thinks there was 28K gallons of fuel on the jets.....

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Wow...you can all watch a fireball and GUESS how much of the est. 28K gallons burned up?

First off, these jets can't even hold 28k gallons. Second, they only had about 10,000 gallons on board. So, no matter what CaptianObvious, obviously did not do his research if he missed a simple fact like that.

[edit on 25-6-2007 by 11 11]