Single Fathers Unite!

I have noticed that there are quite a few of us divorced fathers here on ATS. Also the common theme between us seems to be the running over of our lives by the system.

Each and every year many many men go through a divorce and get trampled by a system that seems to be geared towards the victimization of the children and thus the villainization of fathers that dearly love those children.

But strength comes through collaboration. United people for a change in the system to get these judges to actually run a fair trial.

There is no doubt among everyone involved that the system is busted. But what should we do about it? What can we do about it? We not only have to fight against an unfair system we have to fight the stereotypes that perpetuate that system.

But for those of us that have to go through the existing system we should pool our resources. Working together we may have ideas that the others haven't thought of.

We all have our stories to tell, We all have our individual hardships. I have seen a few of these show up in my U2U box and thats what inspired me to start this thread.

Laws seem to vary state to state country to country but the universal truth remains that good fathers are being unfairly treated by each of these courts. I think that we shouldn't have to face these trying times alone and together we can share ideas that can help each other out.

Maybe reading each others stories can help maybe we can work together to come up with viable solutions to our problems.

Great idea, but I cry sexism!

the system screws nearly everyone because it's not used properly. The laws of evidence and due process are rarely properly observed in court, for men AND for women.

It seems to be geared towards the liars. Liars can say anything they want in court and are rarely caught, whereas those of us with scruples don't lie, but are treated as if we are lying. So it comes down to he said/she said, evidence be damned, and good parents of both sexes and their children lose out.

OK I'm done now. But you men aren't the only ones being screwed by the system being run so incompetently and haphazardly.

Humph. No girls allowed. Fine. I'll just take my ball and go home.

Oh WUK!! I'm here to offer my undying support You got a bum deal, and you didn't deserve it. What goes around comes around, and one fine day that little man (mini me) will know the truth of the matter. As always, you have my full support and my shoulder when you need it.

XOXOXO

Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Great idea, but I cry sexism!



Humph. No girls allowed. Fine. I'll just take my ball and go home.

You know what Major, you are absolutely right the system does screw both men and women. This needs to change drastically. Something needs to be done in order to get actual FAIR trials. One of the problems is the simple fact of the "No Fault Divorce" What the heck is that? Obviously the marriage failed for a reason! What is it? is it bad enough to warrant a divorce?

I do completely apologize for any sexist provocation that I may have inadvertently put towards you. Of course you are welcome here. Perhaps the title needs to be changed to Single Parents Unite.

WUK You know I was yanking your chain, my man. I hope you took it in the spirit given, and not as a chastisement.

I'm a little sensitive on the gender bias smokescreen that's preventing real overhaul of the family injustice system is all.

(The bit about the ball -- it's from chat -- thought you'd get I was joking around )

Carry on.

[edit on 11-6-2007 by MajorMalfunction]

Okay MajorMalfunction.... Just for you I will wave my white flag. Yes women can and do get screwed by it too.

I'll wave my white flag if you'll concede that men are most frequently the victims. Have we got a deal ?

WhatUKNO as I told spliffy the other day we need to gather victims of this system screwing from around the globe and take a class action to the international Court of Human Rights.

We need to create a website to gather supporters and link as many forums as we can to it. Any ideas?

I have cousins in the UK who are screwed and alienated from their kids just the same way. I see from US websites that this evil is alive and well there too. In New Zealand we have it bad.

This thing crosses borders.

If the justice system ever delivered justice, the lawyers would be out of work.

PS you listen to aunty Jen. She is wise beyond her years.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
aunty Jen

Simon!!?!?!?!



I'm hardly old enough to be Wukkies Aunty Jen

Where's that frying pan? *looks around*

Arggh you'd never dent my skull wench. My "Ex" tried many times.

She gave me a black eye once whilst I was on the phone to the cops to report that she was destroying my stuff. Cops took her away in handcuffs and then her family came around and beat me up for calling the cops.

I know you're too gentle for that stuff.

I had a teacher at school called Jenny Grenfell. She was young and pretty but kids being kids they corrupted it to Granny Grenfell.

Many years later I was waiting at a bus stop and saw her across the street. I yelled out "Granny !"

Poor Jenny Grenfell. She was only 29!

Originally posted by sy.gunson
WhatUKNO as I told spliffy the other day we need to gather victims of this system screwing from around the globe and take a class action to the international Court of Human Rights.

We need to create a website to gather supporters and link as many forums as we can to it. Any ideas?

Interesting Proposition Sy, I went and looked up the ICC main home page. Perhaps we can get a movement started.

Its a tragedy what happens to children caught in a divorce. Its a hardship I don't wish on my worst enemy.

The Father's Rights Movement is failing. This is abuse in the highest order to our children. Our collective cultures need to realize that this is no longer the age when a mother is the only person that can adequately care for a child's welfare.

The main problem in the court system today is the joke of a no fault divorce. There must have been a reason for the divorce. That is the issue at hand after all. Women should be able to stand up and say that she is leaving an abusive husband, or a man should be able to say that he wants out of a hopeless marriage.

I don't understand the concept of a no fault divorce, if no one is at fault no one would get divorced in the first place.

Edit to add: I always listen to the lovely and vivacious Jen

[edit on 6/12/2007 by whatukno]

Originally posted by sy.gunson

I'll wave my white flag if you'll concede that men are most frequently the victims. Have we got a deal ?

Sorry, can't go with men are more often the victims.

Women are victimized just as often. The court sucks, no gender bias necessary.

Here's an example

BTW, Sy, my ex is an Australian. I am aware that there is a big difference in the way family court is run in the US and the Antipodes.

It was my impression from things happening in AUS that I read about when he was having a custody dispute with his ex in Brisbane, that the Antipodean family courts are more like the US family courts in the 1970's when it was automatically assumed women should get custody and men were left out in the cold.

The father's rights movement in this country has, sadly, been misused by men like my ex, who are actually abusers trying to regain control over their victims. One man, who researches battery, Lundy Bancroft, calls this particular segment of the father's right movement, Father Supremacists. They are not actually victims, but using the system to victimize.

Not all men are like this, WUK is an example, but it does happen, and it is a backlash for what happened in the 1970's here in the US. Our courts are overcompensating for the time when women won custody automatically, and it's harming everyone, expecially the children, because the law isn't being applied properly -- to ANYONE.

You may experience such a backlash in your own courts someday, to your favor.

It's just simplistic, IMO, to assume that all family law the world over is applied in the same manner, and has the same problems.

Can we wave white flags at each other now?


[edit to add Bancroft URL]

[edit on 12-6-2007 by MajorMalfunction]

It's hard being a single parent. It sure wouldn't look as good though, would it?

Single Mothers Unite


They'd be jeering breeders get an abortion and a job.

There's still a double standard that goes both ways. It's bull, if the kids come first, they aren't used as a weapon. I never even had to establish any legal documents concerning my son's father. We never fought over custody or money. We fought over his fooling around, but not the boy.

He's a good father. The boy spends alot of time with him now. More lenient with school.

It's still a man's world. Check out the murder in Purdah.

Where have all the Muslim women gone?
Country† Per cent Per cent Muslim Very poor
male* female majority country**
Countries with more women than men
Ukraine 46.4 53.6
Russia 46.7 53.3
Kazakhstan 48.2 51.8 99%
North Korea 48.4 51.6 very poor
Italy 48.5 51.5
Poland 48.6 51.4
France 48.8 51.2
Spain 48.8 51.2
Germany 48.9 51.1
Mozambique 48.9 51.1 very poor
U. S. A. 49.0 51.0
Japan 49.0 51.0
Romania 49.0 51.0
U. K. 49.1 50.9
Vietnam 49.1 50.9 very poor
Tanzania 49.2 50.8 very poor
Mexico 49.3 50.7
Zaire 49.3 50.7 very poor
Brazil 49.3 50.7
Argentina 49.4 50.6
Thailand 49.4 50.6
Canada 49.5 50.5
Uzbekistan 49.5 50.5 99% very poor
The Netherlands 49.5 50.5
Sri Lanka 49.5 50.5 very poor
South Africa 49.6 50.4
Ghana 49.6 50.4 very poor
Australia 49.8 50.2
Philippines 49.8 50.2 very poor
Indonesia 49.9 50.1 87% very poor
Morocco 49.9 50.1 99%
Uganda 50.0 50.0 very poor
Kenya 50.0 50.0 very poor
Countries with more men than women
Burma 50.2 49.8 very poor
Ethiopia 50.2 48.8 very poor
Malaysia 50.2 49.8 53%
Peru 50.3 49.7 very poor
Venezuela 50.4 49.6
South Korea 50.4 49.6
Algeria 50.5 49.5 99%
Egypt 50.5 49.5 90% very poor
Nigeria 50.6 49.4 [45%] very poor
Turkey 50.6 49.4 99%
Iraq 50.6 49.4 95%
The Sudan 50.7 49.3 75% very poor
Iran 50.8 49.2 99%
Nepal 51.2 48.8 very poor
Pakistan 51.2 48.8 97% very poor
Taiwan 51.3 48.7
Bangladesh 51.4 48.6 87% very poor
Afghanistan 51.5 48.5 99% very poor
China 51.7 48.3 very poor
India 51.7 48.3 very poor
Saudi Arabia 55.6 44.4 99%
† Countries with populations over fifteen million (1994 estimates). * 1998 estimates
from the International Data Base maintained by the U.S. Census Bureau. ** defined
as a country with a per capita GNP less than US$1000 per annum.
www.rationalist.com.au...

I gave my ex husband joint custody with the child's principle residence with me, he left the city when she was an infant and never returned. Slandered long distance.

He took her on two trips that his father paid for, her whole life. She was scared because he was a stranger. He never took advantage of access to her school or medical records until he went to her school when she was a teenager and called her a prostitute.

He's always whining about how hard done by he was by the courts.

I am not doubting that there are deadbeat dads out there and horrible fathers and quite honestly just men that are genetic material suppliers. It is a sad fact of the matter that these guys ruin it for those of us that really want to be with their children and really want to be fathers.

But take my story for example, I stood up in court alone, I had evidence of the fact that my ex wife would injure herself. I also had her own blog that stated clearly that she was a danger to herself and had a serious eating disorder. I tried as hard as I could to explain how detrimental her habits and her actions were.

My ex didn't even deny any of this. They didn't offer the judge any reason other than she was the mother why she should have custody. I told the judge and reminded him of the fact that when she denied me any visitation or any time with my son for a period of four months that it was a crime, I even cited the exact law that covered it.

Still the judge gave her full custody. Now tell me I wasn't run over by the system.

is this the BTS version of the He-Man woman haterz club?

No more like the BTS version of the He-Man Family Court Haters club

Lys, Family courts are the issue here, not women, not the mothers. Children need BOTH parents in their lives. Raising a child well requires that both parents work cooperatively in order to maintain and create a healthy and long lasting effect on a young persons life.

The problem is the courts. They are unfair they are also just plain broken. We have judges that sit on the bench that have already decided the outcome of the trial before the trial even begins.

Originally posted by whatukno
No more like the BTS version of the He-Man Family Court Haters club

Lys, Family courts are the issue here, not women, not the mothers. Children need BOTH parents in their lives. Raising a child well requires that both parents work cooperatively in order to maintain and create a healthy and long lasting effect on a young persons life.

The problem is the courts. They are unfair they are also just plain broken. We have judges that sit on the bench that have already decided the outcome of the trial before the trial even begins.

Thus I desire no spawnling.

Yes, parents raise children together. That's why when one of them has a problem, the other one helps and not disparages.

Well so if it's so easy to introduce no fault divorce, then what about no fault access ?

And we should campaign against using children as weapons and call it what it is: A form of child abuse.

I was talking with spliffy yesterday and how an internet site set up by fathers in the UK to effect changes disintegrated into chaos because they attracted all sorts of nutters who advocated child abductions and raiding courts in session etc.

I don't want WhatUKNO's call to arms to just become another talk fest. I am only prepared to put my precious energy into something which will produce worthwhile tangible results.

It should seek to change the law... Not break the law

I think we need to organise a class action to a court of high enough standing that it sends a seismic shock wave through the capitals of the Western world about the fiscal liability for compensation. Governments will only change this injustice when it hit's their pockets hard.

I also favour pressuring Governments for criminalising false accusations to deny access where it can be proven the complaint was made in bad faith.

My son repeatedly had black eyes and bruises as a child from his mother. Neither Police nor Child Welfare would investigate for almost a year. Predictably they did a half hearted enquiry and concluded there was no evidence. They reported back to the Court that I was causing the problems with false allegations.

Now I have my son's file and I can read for myself that the investigations obtained admissions that she hit our son. The Family Court ruled here in March 2007 that my son's file was inadmissable as evidence !
Why not ?

Why can't Police and Government agencies be criminally prosecuted for lying to the Courts about violence against children ?

Why are judges immune from prosecution for excluding evidence of child abuse ?

In NZ all Family Court proceedings are in secrecy. I don't know how that relates to USA and UK. In Australia they made a radical change and got rid of Family Court secrecy. 80% of previous litigation simply stopped once it became public.

The suggestion has been made in light of this about Australia's experience that 4 out of 5 cases were false litigation.

That's why when one of them has a problem, the other one helps and not disparages.

Clearwater your concept of parents working together sounds really nice and civilised. I know couples who do break up and work together in a mature fashion to raise their kids. I applaud those couples and envy them.

Trouble is not every break up is civilsed. Often one party feels cheated and uses their custody of the kids as a weapon to keep hurting the other parent. That is what this thread is about.

What do you do in my circumstance where your partner has a steroid induced mental illness which the Courts wont allow evidence on ?

What happens when your child comes to you beaten up and saying the other parent did it ?

What do you do when the Government agencies will not investigate or lie to cover up child abuse ?

What happens when the social workers are all ardent femminists and men haters who conceal the mother's violence against a child out of improper gender bias against fathers ?


[edit on 12-6-2007 by sy.gunson]