Sex Crimes and the Vatican

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
But as I've said, only .02% of priests were accused of rape or molestation. That does not give you the right to condemn the 99.8% who are doing a damn good job.

Oh, we're downplaying numbers again. At first there were 0.03% and now is 0.02%. So if we have 4000+ (0.02%) accused priests than we can estimate there is roughly around 20 million catholic priests worldwide.

Are you vouching for other 20 millions of them?
Now that's a bold statement for a man in the new millenia.

The other point is about doing their jobs. Pedophile priests we're/are 'good' priests. They did/are doing their jobs splendidlly. But we're not talking about the quality of their performance as priests. We're talking about God's servants poking little children with their penises.

I was taught that if someone knows about a crime and does nothing about it that makes him an accomplice.

The other priests, bishops, cardinals,...and even the Pope, those who knew about what was happening, are partners in their crimes, because they allowed these men to keep thier positions of moral authority int he church and did not protect the innocent.

Add these men to the .03 or .04 percent and see what that does to your statistics.

Sparky- Good point! Those accomplises are just as guilty- We are talking about children for crying out loud! innocent CHILDREN!
C&D-
Yes, that was my point exactly! I do believe that a lot of this problem is the devil or demons. It may sound far fetched, but we all know evil and temptation exist- Why would the devil waste his time on people/souls who are already in his pocket? And, why not take down the credibility of the church as well as these certain 'preists'?

The Roman Catholic Church in its present form was not founded by Jesus. This Roman Church is a deviation or corruption, a fallen branch of the holy Gnosticism. The Roman Catholic Church is a cadaver...

In this present time, the Roman Catholic Church has totally lost the tradition. That is why we see that in this Roman Church the fire of the temple is lit by acolyte boys, an action that is not only an absurdity, but more over, a very grave sacrilege and an insult to life itself... - Samael Aun Weor

See the following as well:


4,392 Priests Accused of Sex Abuse

It's church's destiny, to be destroyed from inside. Several people, most known is probably Fatima, received visions about the end of the church. Her 3rd (suppressed) secret.

I feel sorry for all the kids and parents. I feel absolutely nothing towards the church, Vatican or priests. If they all go away tomorrow i would feel nothing. I am not saying this to make a point, it's how i feel. Or not feel for that matter.

[edit on 19-6-2007 by sb2012]

I keep hearing the figure only .03% or .04.0% of priests are pedaphiles.
But this is largely based on the reports from only a hanfdul of countries.

The percetage of Pristes accused in the US is a staggering 4.0 % according to this report: This was based on a study done by John Jay College of Criminal Justice for the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

www.boston.com...

About 4 percent of Catholic priests have been accused of sexually abusing minors over the past half-century, according to a draft of the first comprehensive study of sexual abuse within the Catholic Church in the United States. The percentage is higher than many people, including church officials, had anticipated.
The draft of the study, done by John Jay College of Criminal Justice for the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, found that 4,450 of the 110,000 priests who served between 1950 and 2002 were accused of sexual abuse of minors, according to CNN, which reported yesterday that it had reviewed the draft.

The number of alleged perpetrators given in the draft study is higher than the tallies by news media outlets, including the Associated Press and The New York Times, that have tried to count reported allegations nationwide.

The number is also higher than that projected by church officials. A top Vatican official, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, said in 2002, according to the Catholic News Service: "In the United States, there is constant news on this topic, but less than

I won't quote the rest, but it is easy to see that as time goes on and more info comes to light the percentages will change. Also too there are a lot of countries where the abuse is just now starting to come to light.

I can only see things looking worse for the Catholic Church.


[edit on 19-6-2007 by Sparky63]

Here is another interesting aspect to this:

www.actupny.org...
The Headline stated: Report: Priests hit hard by hidden AIDS epidemic

and an Update on the same page that read:
New Study Finds Catholic Priests Dying From AIDS at Higher Than Expected Rate ;

According to a study following a January report on Catholic priests dying of AIDS, the Kansas City Star has found that the AIDS-related death rate among priests "exceeds earlier estimates." The Star reported in a three-part series in January that "hundreds of priests had died of AIDS-related illnesses and that hundreds more were living with the virus that causes the disease."

In the 14 states that allowed the Star to access death records, the paper found that the AIDS-related death rate among priests was "more than double" the rate among all adult males in those states and more than six times the rate among the general population in those states. The Star reports that these rates "exceeded the estimates and projections reported earlier this year by the newspaper," and the follow-up investigation reveals that "there is no longer any question that hundreds of priests have died of AIDS and that many bishops were aware of their plights."

No report though on any stats on how many victims might have been infected by these men.

It also had this to say about the Church of England:

The Church of England revealed this year that at least 25% of its priests had died of AIDS-related illnesses, and in September mandated that all Anglican bishops in southern Africa undergo HIV testing.

I think these reports have only scratched the surface.
I think this is just a symptom of the moral decay that encompasses this institution.

I think where the problem lies is in the fact that Catholic Church does not know how to deal with sex in this day and age. Take for example I personally know a Catholic Priest who is having an affair with a married woman, this news got out about 2 years ago. She has since divorced her husband and her and the Priest continue to see each other. Although the Catholic church is well aware of this he continues to live at the commune and is still a practicing priest. Unfortunatly the Catholic Church and politics go hand in hand and where ever there is politics involved there will be constant blunders

Originally posted by moonbeam13
I think where the problem lies is in the fact that Catholic Church does not know how to deal with sex in this day and age. Take for example I personally know a Catholic Priest who is having an affair with a married woman, this news got out about 2 years ago. She has since divorced her husband and her and the Priest continue to see each other. Although the Catholic church is well aware of this he continues to live at the commune and is still a practicing priest. Unfortunatly the Catholic Church and politics go hand in hand and where ever there is politics involved there will be constant blunders

They never did and only in this day and age people are encouraged to speak. Horrendous crimes happened thorough the history too, but people were silenced or in fear of persecution. Now it's the time we deal with church, not wait for them to deal with sex. How would they do that anyway? Use condoms?

Yes, i agree with politics being involved. Vatican has a lot of financial and political power and interests, like all churches around the world. If you want to beat them here, promote secularism, tell people USA was not funded on Christianity, as some would like you to believe and educate yourself about dangers of theocracy and cult-like brainwashing. Just look at Islam and Old Testament.

Great post, Souljah.

Michael Jackson should have joine the clergy. And to those who quoted Flyersfan, thanks. I have her on ignore, but thanks to y'all, I got to see her squirm as the men of her faith are exposed as dirty child molesters.

No surprise that nothing happened when she called that guy a stupid wise ass. I got post banned for calling the View's Hasselbeck stupid in response to FF, but what else is new. That's why I'm enjoying this thread, as I REALLY can't stand this member.

But yeah, priest child molester. It's even a better cover than a CPS worker if you like em young, fresh, and green. Biblegod is pretty sick if he really "calls" these filthy predators to priesthood.

Originally posted by yanchek
Oh, we're downplaying numbers again. At first there were 0.03% and now is 0.02%. So if we have 4000+ (0.02%) accused priests than we can estimate there is roughly around 20 million catholic priests worldwide.

I don't understand your math.

Originally posted by yanchek
Are you vouching for other 20 millions of them?
Now that's a bold statement for a man in the new millenia.

No, captain obvious. Vouching for 20 million people? Where and when did I say that? Of course I don't know them each personally, but I still respect them for giving up their secular lives and their oath to celibacy, as is required of a priest. Aren't I allowed to respect them?

Originally posted by yanchek
The other point is about doing their jobs. Pedophile priests we're/are 'good' priests. They did/are doing their jobs splendidlly. But we're not talking about the quality of their performance as priests. We're talking about God's servants poking little children with their penises.

Excuse me for being rational, but isn't the quality of the performance of a priest also affected by whether or not he rapes children? And as I've said before, whenever you put people in positions of power, you are going to have a few crazies here and there that kill or maim or rape the people under their power. Its inevitable, and nothing new looking at it from a historical standpoint. But, the percentage of crazies in the Catholic Church is smaller than the percentages at universities, public schools, etc. Of course, nobody points this out, the public loves a good scandal.

Originally posted by sb2012
If you want to beat them here, promote secularism, tell people USA was not funded on Christianity, as some would like you to believe...

America was not found on Christianity? Then what did the Lutheran pilgrims come to America for, corn? They came here for religious freedom and started a new chapter for Christianity, Protestantism.

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier

They came here for religious freedom and started a new chapter for Christianity, Protestantism.

Are you implying that Protestantism began with those who came to "The New World" ? If so, you might want to check up on your facts.

Essentially, Martin Luther can be credited with origins of Protestantism when he nailed his 95 Theses on the door of a church in Wittenberg. His theses were "protests" against what he saw as injustices and errors within the Roman Catholic Church.

The schisms that Martin Luther's actions caused within the Church led to a variety of "Protestant sects" arising in Europe; i.e., Calvinism. The various sects that "broke away" from the Church led to years of European warfare and strife between the Roman Catholic Church and the followers of the Protestant sects.

To imply that Protestantism began in the New World is not quite correct.

Thebluesolder
Excuse me for being rational, but isn't the quality of the performance of a priest also affected by whether or not he rapes children? And as I've said before, whenever you put people in positions of power, you are going to have a few crazies here and there that kill or maim or rape the people under their power. Its inevitable, and nothing new looking at it from a historical standpoint. But, the percentage of crazies in the Catholic Church is smaller than the percentages at universities, public schools, etc. Of course, nobody points this out, the public loves a good scandal.

I couldn't agree more!
My whole point has been in agreeance, that the awful performance and mishandling of the priest abuse claims bey the Vatican - It is discusting!! BUT, this is not about the 'abusive priests' religious credibility- And, people who use the Lords name in order to obtain power over their victims, are in no way associated with God, they are evil. Lets not denounce those who live each day to praise and preach for the Lord.

Originally posted by benevolent tyrant

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier

They came here for religious freedom and started a new chapter for Christianity, Protestantism.

Are you implying that Protestantism began with those who came to "The New World" ? If so, you might want to check up on your facts.

Essentially, Martin Luther can be credited with origins of Protestantism when he nailed his 95 Theses on the door of a church in Wittenberg. His theses were "protests" against what he saw as injustices and errors within the Roman Catholic Church.

The schisms that Martin Luther's actions caused within the Church led to a variety of "Protestant sects" arising in Europe; i.e., Calvinism. The various sects that "broke away" from the Church led to years of European warfare and strife between the Roman Catholic Church and the followers of the Protestant sects.

To imply that Protestantism began in the New World is not quite correct.

You didn't have to be so hostile about it. I know who Martin Luther is, I know what the 95 theses is, and I know all about the indulgences and catalysts leading up to the Protestant reformation. What I meant to say was that the Lutheran pilgrims that came to America and essentially founded modern day USA came here for religious freedom and nothing else. I know that they were not the ones who founded protestantism, but they were the ones who really started snowballing protestantism and leading other Lutherans away from Catholic persecution.

this is a great thread. i have nothing of any consequence to add other than i think the church/religion is a plague and i wish it would vanish today.
good thread to the OP.

LOL at flyers. like turning the attention to another religion negates the fact that there are a buch of pederast catholic priests out there(that is what the thread was about right? not baptists...)

i like the .04% argument. i'm thining that .01% is still too much and we all know that for every thousand reported cases there is gonna be a thousand that never get tossed out there.
thats just that way it is.

hopefully in my lifetime, religion and the church will come crashing down and i will be watching with a large ass grin on my face...there is nothing i am botherd by more than the church and organized religion.....friggin plague i tell ya.

Originally posted by Boondock78
...i have nothing of any consequence to add other than i think the church/religion is a plague and i wish it would vanish today...

...hopefully in my lifetime, religion and the church will come crashing down and i will be watching with a large ass grin on my face...there is nothing i am botherd by more than the church and organized religion.....friggin plague i tell ya.

What bothers you so much about religion and church?

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier

What bothers you so much about religion and church?

i think the better question would be what does not bother me about the church?

i don't like the brainwashing and hypocracy that spews from the church.
i wish it all would disappear as i honestly think the world would be a better place without all this crap.
all it does is divide...just an opinion

Originally posted by Boondock78
i don't like the brainwashing...

Does your pastor hang a pendulum in front of your face, repeating "You are getting veeeeeery sleeeeeepy...."?

Because to tell you the truth, you should see another church if that happens.

Originally posted by TheB1ueSoldier
What bothers you so much about religion and church?

Allow me to answer that.

Religion was designed to keep MAN away from NATURE.

Most religions were designed to keep MAN in war with another MAN - the system of DIVIDE & RULE.

Specifically Catholic religion is a copy of several other Sun-God-Myths from Persia, Greece, Rome, India and Scandinavia. If you did not notice, every one of those religions worships SUN - and the same is with Catholicism. But the problem here is, that Bible was written in a way to make the Church more POLITICAL and more POWERFUL then any other time before. Why you shall ask? Well suddenly a normal man could be more further from Mother Nature then anytime before in history - suddenly the almighty G.O.D. is responsible for everything; which means, that in the name of G.O.D. the church can invade countries, slaughter those radical thinking atheists, burn all the "Witches", start the DARK AGES, INQUISITIONS and perform GENOCIDE over an entire continent of INDIAN NATIVES. All the in the name of G.O.D. Yet everybody knows, that there was no JESUS - that he is just a bad copy of all the SUN-GOD-MYTHS, and that man has always worshiped the SUN. So like mister Thomas Paine once said:

"The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the SUN, in which they put a man called Christ in the place of the SUN, and pay him the adoration originally payed to the SUN!"

The FACT is that Jesus was a SUN-deity of the GNOSTIC-Roman-SECT and it was the POLITICAL establishment, which put this JESUS Figure for immense SOCIAL CONTROL and designed for SPIRTUAL FRUAD, which resulted in 1600 year long political and imperial stronghold of ALL of Europe and the entire WORLD. Therefore the purpose of these religions is to DETACH the Human species from the NATURAL WORLD and from each other it also support BLIND submission to higher authority and it reduces human responsibility to the level that G.O.D. controls everything and therefore awful crimes against humanity can be justified in the name of DIVIDE pursuit. AND must importantly - it EMPOWERS those who know the truth but us that MYTH to manipulate and CONTROL human society. Therefore;

RELIGION CAN NEVER REFORM MANKIND,

BECAUSE RELIGION IS SLAVERY!

[edit on 28/6/07 by Souljah]