Sex Crimes and the Vatican

Originally posted by Cloak and Dagger

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Most priests ARE mentally healthy people.

That's absurd.

what is absurd is when someone claims that (in general) catholic priests are mentally deficient ... when in fact there is no proof of this. The VAST MAJORITY of Catholic priests function just fine.

So then, according to what you just said, God called the pedophiles into the priesthood.

No. God calls PRIESTS into the priesthood. Those few pedophiles who entered did so because they are preditors and saw a good hunting ground. But of course, you already know that, don't you. :shk:

according to you,

You REALLY should stop being a wise-ass an stop falsely paraphrasing me. You can't possibly really be that stupid to think that's what I said. Or maybe you are ... :shk:

Flyersfan thank you for educating me on Catholicism

Yes, you need educating. But apparently you don't want to be.
Sad. Really sad.

Originally posted by Souljah
I understand that you, as a Roman Catholic, must defend the institution you belong to.

I appreciate your police response.

Actually, if they do something wrong I get just as ticked as anyone else. I'm not going to blindly defend something that is wrong just because I belong to that organization. If I think it's wrong - I say so.

1 - ALL Catholics are disgusted with the way that some higher-ups have shuffled the pedophiles.

2 - The Church and the lay people who run things have both put together policies and procedures to protect the children. I already quoted some of them for you. (which no one bothered to comment on because it doesn't fit into the anti-catholic scheme and agenda of this thread )

3 - Just because someone is accused doesn't make them guilty. I lived in Alabama for 9 years and I am absolutely sure that the anti-Catholic venom runs so deep down there that many people would falsely accuse Catholics (and Catholic priests) just to further smear them.

4 - eveyrone deserves a trial. The accused and the accuser both deserve justice.

5 - There are far fewer pedophiles then the anti-Catholics want to claim.

6 - Sex abuse is more wide spread in the protestant churches and the public school system than in the Catholic church .. and yet anti-Cathlolics still gleefully blast away at the Catholic church, while ignoring the sex abuse evils happening WITH MORE FREQUENCY in the other churches and the public school system.

7 - Celebacy doesn't cause pedophilia.

I have said all I have to say.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
1 - ALL Catholics are disgusted with the way that some higher-ups have shuffled the pedophiles.

On our local television I was watching just a week ago an open debate, where sex abuses in the church were discussed. There were several debate participants, inlcuding some hardcore catholics, politicians, priests and social workers, who helped victims of the sex abuses. And I must say, that those hardcore catholics (actually it was a woman), did not care what the victims had to say - she belived that a man of God can not do such things and that the victim of the sex abuse (the rare case which came out to the open out of many!) was making that up. Actually she defended the guilty priests/sex abuser, even when everybody found him guilty. Now I do not know about where you live, but here most of the catholics (which mostly live in rural areas) blindly belive what the church has to say about the sex abuses - and not the victim. Personally I found that disgusting.

2 - The Church and the lay people who run things have both put together policies and procedures to protect the children. I already quoted some of them for you. (which no one bothered to comment on because it doesn't fit into the anti-catholic scheme and agenda of this thread )

Yes but I have also presented the former secret document, which is designed to protect sex abusers and to shut-down the victims. And this one you also failed to comment.

3 - Just because someone is accused doesn't make them guilty. I lived in Alabama for 9 years and I am absolutely sure that the anti-Catholic venom runs so deep down there that many people would falsely accuse Catholics (and Catholic priests) just to further smear them.

Sorry for jumping the topic - but I would love if you would feel that same way about certain so-dalled terrorists which are held in certain detention camps, which are found guilty until proven innocent. Do they not deserve a fair trial? I am not anti-Catholic - actually I do not belong to any religion in this World, since I do not belive in a certain God; I do allow a possiblity of a High Supreme Force in the Universe, but I am not going to be so bold to call that Force a certain name, like all religions do. I guess that makes me an Agnostic. But I do belive, that religion is a tool devised to manipulate and influence larger masses - call me a communist, but I belive what mister Carl Marx said about religion - Opium for the Masses. And I do think about that for EVERY religion - not just Catholic church.

4 - eveyrone deserves a trial. The accused and the accuser both deserve justice.

Agreed.

I shall quote that statement of yours in the future when I need to!

5 - There are far fewer pedophiles then the anti-Catholics want to claim.

I think it is the opposite - I think that there are many un-reported cases, which never surface into the public. For example, in this documentary by the BBC it was said, that in Brazil there are several abuse cases - but down there, the Church actually does not have to hide those sex crimes away, since the general public is so devoted, that hey automatically deny anything that the victim says, and call her a liar. A 5 year old girl, which later killed herself.

6 - Sex abuse is more wide spread in the protestant churches and the public school system than in the Catholic church .. and yet anti-Cathlolics still gleefully blast away at the Catholic church, while ignoring the sex abuse evils happening WITH MORE FREQUENCY in the other churches and the public school system.

I think that sex abuse is everywhere where it should not be; at home, in school, in the Church - in certain social institutions which should protect and teach young people how to live and how to act in modern society. Sadly evil has picks no sides, and there were several cases of pedipohile rings, which prayed on young boys in which there were all kinds of people: priests and officials in the Roman Catholic church, lawyers, parole and police officers, teachers and business executives. For example:

Pedophile ring preyed on young boys

CBC Radio News has found at least 50 people who say they were victims of a pedophile ring in Cornwall, Ontario. The list includes men from the city's religious, professional and business establishments. They coerced boys into sex and shared them, using their influence to hide the activity.

All the clan members had one thing in common -- the church. Many had attended Catholic school together while others had gone into the seminary hoping to become priests. They went on to prominence and power. Many are active members in their local parish and groups like The Knights of Columbus.

One man involved with the ring says the men often preyed on young boys from broken homes or those who were in trouble with the law who couldn't defend themselves. Over the years some of the abusers became more violent. A second man says he was tied up and subjected to bestiality and torture at the hands of a family friend.

That is most certainly a scary piece of information.

I also suggest the following documentary:

Google Video Link

7 - Celebacy doesn't cause pedophilia.

Most other religions and denominations do not require celibacy, and their spiritual leaders work effectively. Is there a relationship between celibacy and pedophilia? Many mental health professionals think so.

Moreover, experience tells us that celibacy is not required for spiritual life, or the other roles that clerics play - leader, counselor, teacher. Many CEOs are married. U.S. presidents have almost always been married. Rabbis and ministers marry. Time-pressed doctors often have husbands and wives. So why shouldn't the Catholic priests have that "privledge"? I really do not understand that at all.

Some of the most amazing, spiritual, intelligent, conscientious people are priests. Yet they are being deprived of good, new people to their communities, which results in a deep loneliness, a despair that makes many quit.

I said I was done, but this BEGS for a response.

Originally posted by Souljah
Most other religions and denominations do not require celibacy,

So what? WHo cares? That's THEM and THEIR beliefs. You have to learn to tolerate other people's religious beliefs.

and their spiritual leaders work effectively.

Apparently you missed what was said about protestants having SEX CRIMES with worses stats then Catholics, eh? You are cherry picking. Not every Christian denomination is going to work in the same way. You can't protestantize the Catholic faith and still have it Catholic. (or is that the point .. to destroy the Catholic faith?)

Is there a relationship between celibacy and pedophilia?

No. None.

Many mental health professionals think so.

None with any brains.

experience tells us that celibacy is not required for spiritual life,

God calls different people to different types of spiritual life. He called ST. Paul to a celibate life. St. Paul in return called on those who wished to fully serve the Lord to not get married and so not to be distracted by worldly things. YOU have not been called to a celibate life .. but those who are called to the priesthood, or those who are called into a contemplative order, or those who are called to be cloistered nuns ARE CALLED to be celibate and ARE GIVEN the grace necessary for that calling.

I really do not understand that at all.

No, you really don't, do you? I suggest you read up on why the Catholic Church has celibacy at this time. Read about why it is done .. for SPIRITUAL reasons. Instead of spending the time blasting something that you admit that you 'don't understand at all' - go read WHY the Catholic church has it.

And if you still disagree with it .. then don't be Catholic. It's that simple.

Celibacy and the priesthood
celibacy as a gift
Those who have made themselves unichs for the sake of the kingdom - Christ's words
Answers to questions about celibacy




[edit on 6/13/2007 by FlyersFan]

I was educated, for a time, by the christian brothers in Ireland, and whilst I wasn't sexually abuse (at least to my knowledge) I was subjected to quite horrific violence, given that I was a small child.

I've spoken to some of my male relatives about this and their stories are truly horrifying, and include:
being beaten with hurls (the stick from hurling, an irish sport) very disturbing because hurls are often bound with metal so they don't break as easily.
beaten with sticks, shoes, fists, feet.
being put in stress positions because of minor infractions
ritual humiliation and encouraging beatings by peers.

This list is by no means exhaustive, but I've included the worst abuse.
I've also not included what my male relatives said to me about sexual abuse, because they heard about it happening but didn't experience it.

I believe that this abuse stems from the churches insistence on celibacy - an un-natural state for any male, let alone a young one.

Whilst we're on the subject, I personally knew 2 priests who were moved to different parishes because they had affairs with married women - the church tried to cover it up - we even had the bishop come to mass to "pray for our fallen, misguided brother"

The hypocrisy of this organisation is sickening.

[edit on 13/6/2007 by budski]

When I was 15 years old I worked at a gas station, full service even.
Yes I know that makes me really old.

One day a Catholic Priest comes in and asks for fill-up. After filling up his tank and cleaning his windows, I said, "would you like your oil checked sir?"
He started chuckling and said, "Son, I'd like to check your oil if you know what I mean." then he gives me a wierd look." I was just a backward country boy so at the time I had no idea what we meant. Then he starts to get upset. and says, "Just tell me how much I owe you."

So I told him much he owed for the gas, and said, "will that be cash or credit sir?" He then proceeds to get very upset and tells me that I should address him as Father.

I explained to him that I wasn't Catholic and that Jesus said that we should not address any man as Father. I didn't know the chapter or verse at the time, but I knew we had read this in our family bible study.

HE was extremely angry to say the least and called me a smart a** and told me he was going to get me fired for showing him a lack of respect.

I was in no way disrespectful.

When I got home I found the passage I was thinking of in Mat 23:9-10

The next day my boss calls me into the back room and told me to explain myself. It turns out the the Priest was my boss's priest. Heck I didn't even know he was Catholic. I told him what happened and explained that I addressed the priest as sir. He said, "We call them Father". I explained again that I am not Catholic and quoted the Scripture at Mat 23:9.


He just nodded and said, "Ok, thats good enough for me." He them told me that the priest told him to fire me and that if he didn't he would tell everyone in the church not to go to his gas station.

We ll my boss didn't fire me and a couple weeks later the priest pulls into the station, sees me and then drives off. I never saw him again.

Years later My Mom told me that she was raised Catholic and left the church when I was about 4 years old, and I had in fact been baptized as an infant in the same church this priest served.

I then wrote a letter to the Church and asked that my name be removed from their rolls. I never got a response back.

Last year there was a newspaper article stating that the Diocese asked this same priest to step down due to sexual abuse claims dating back 25 years.

I was not surprised given the lewd comments and arrogance this so called Man of God displayed.

I have known leaders of many different faiths down thru the years and I will acknowlege that sexual abuse of minors by people in positions of power is not limited to the Catholic Church. But I do believe that the Catholic Church had taken "looking the other way" to a whole new level. It had become part of their official policy. I hope that era of secrecy is over...but I somehow doubt that it is.












[edit on 13-6-2007 by Sparky63]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
God calls different people to different types of spiritual life. He called ST. Paul to a celibate life. St. Paul in return called on those who wished to fully serve the Lord to not get married and so not to be distracted by worldly things. YOU have not been called to a celibate life .. but those who are called to the priesthood, or those who are called into a contemplative order, or those who are called to be cloistered nuns ARE CALLED to be celibate and ARE GIVEN the grace necessary for that calling.

See here we have a problem - I do not belive that a certain God can call you to become priest. Now how does that work? None of them is called, it is their choice and their decision, if they want to become servants of God. But I think that Roman-Catholic church has gotten this celibacy thing all wrong; there are celibacy examples in other religions, like monastic orders of Hindu and Buddhist traditions; yet they take it kind of different. If you take a look at history of celibacy (before St. Paul and Christianity), certain monks, priests, shamans, prophets and other holy men had to meditate and in order to become one with the Higher Force that they worship, they had to turn off all the distractions. So that is why they usually ran away from towns and cities into the mountains, into caves, where they could be alone with each other and along with their God. So of course, if they were away from everything, they were also away from women.

One other thing about celibacy is, that the Church has for centuries systematically downgraded women compared to man; there is the Son, the Father and the Holy Spirit and basicly, there is no female divinity in Christianity - apart from Virgin Mary. And that is not all - according to Genesis, Eve, the first woman, was created out of the rib of Adam, the first man. Interpreters often consider this to indicate a natural inferiority of women within the creation story of the religion. Meaning, that a Man of God can not be somebody, who is married to a woman - since woman is not something "Holy" in the Bible, but always something serving the Male Gods or being created out of a piece of a Man. For example, Eve's weakness has sometimes been blamed for causing Adam's fall, and thus for humanity's fall into original sin. This claim was frequently made during the Middle Ages and I wonder how many women were burned for that.

Anyway, this is just my humble opinion, which makes sense to me; but I understand that from a Roman-Catholic point of view, my words are kind of not really making ANY sense.

Very good post Souljah, you have managed to summarize the difficulties that I have with celibacy within the Catholic Church.

I do not believe in a god that is capable of calling people to serve. Historically, devout families were often expected to encourage a child to join one of the orders especailly in rural communities with limited educational opportunites and social mobility. While many of these sons and daughters may have felt a higher calling to serve their god, I think it is equally likely that they were coerced by their families or wishing to see a bit more of life and this was their only option. I think that it is also likely that the religious orders were also used to get rid of 'problems' such as homosexuality and paedophillia. I don't necessarily think that this was the norm but I do think that it is likely to have happened, there are some references to more affluent families having used the Church to solve a scandal.

Celibacy in itself is not the problem. From my reading on religion, which admittedly is not extensive, celibacy is considered as a spiritual achievement, not something that can be achieved by a decision. Sexual impulse and the desire to 'reproduce' is the product of many hormonal and physical processes. I do not think it is impossible for a young man or woman to be celibate, but I think that it is highly unhealthy to combine that with an absence of physical intimacy, particularly during peak activity in the production of hormones.

To me there is an inevitability when all these factors combine that probability will at some point put a person of questionable sexual morals in control of a confused young man. This is how the cycle begins

Yes, even more, they consider all female deities pagan and pagan is of course satanic and evil for them. So, nature worshiping pagans are satanic and raping children is OK, if done in church. At least they send this message out. All the do to priests is to relocate them, so they can rape more.

So far, Vatican spent 1 BILLION in USA alone to silence victims. Keep in mind maybe 1 out of 50 dares to speak. Children are scared and often silenced at home too. It's a sin to speak against church and priests, you know.

Originally posted by Souljah
Ever wondered how many catholic priests are really abusing young girls and boys?

For a real eye opener check out this site: www.rickross.com...

I was shocked at the sheer number of cases presented here.
There were a sprinkling of cases presented here from other religions but the vast majority involved Catholic Priests.
One link stated the Church expeditures is over $1 Billion.

The church's cumulative expenditures on child sex abuse claims in the United States are now approaching $1.5 billion. The tally of known victims has topped 12,500. The number of priests and deacons who have been credibly accused since 1950 is close to 5,000.

www.rickross.com...

Show me any other religion that even comes close to this.






[edit on 14-6-2007 by Sparky63]

Show me any other religion that even comes close to this.

I searched a bit, found some nasty bits about Sai Baba and his love for young boys, something about sex abuse in Hare Krishna society (et tu krishna?) but nothing comes close to catholic church.

What's wrong with these people? Also what's wrong with other priests who remain silent about it? And they say New Age is evil. Ya right.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

what is absurd is when someone claims that (in general) catholic priests are mentally deficient ... when in fact there is no proof of this.

Yeah I agree it's absurd to make that general of a claim.

Thousands upon thousands of evil pedophiles slipped through Gods fingers into His Church and fooled all the other priests into thinking they were holy men. But you're right, thousands of people is a relatively small percantage compared to how many catholic priests there are around the world.

The VAST MAJORITY of Catholic priests function just fine.

Again, for reasons I clarified as best I could in my previous post, that's just intellectually ludicrous.

You don't want people to make a general biased claim against your religion so don't say them yourself! You have not met most catholic priests...you most likely havn't spoken or even seen photos of most catholic priests. Don't make a claim, in all capitol letters nonetheless, that ALL catholic priests are sane, normal, function fine, etc. It's just silly. You don't know the mental condition of most catholic priests and neither do I.

Those few pedophiles who entered did so because they are preditors and saw a good hunting ground.

Please don't use the term 'few' in reference to this crime. You're clearly misrepresenting how many there have been...yes that's even taken into account that they make up a small percentage of all catholic priests.

Saying a 'few' makes it seem like a minor problem. Since you're catholic you represent the Church to non-members, so what I read from that is that the catholic Church views this as a minor problem. The 'few' didn't just enter the Church. They became priests and raped children in the name of God.

But of course, you already know that, don't you. :shk:

Sorry I am not following this one? Are you alluding I am a pedophile? Or do you mean 'that I knew you were right all along'?

You REALLY should stop being a wise-ass an stop falsely paraphrasing me. You can't possibly really be that stupid to think that's what I said. Or maybe you are ... :shk:

Not sure why you're insulting me? Unless that's just standard protocol for Catholics.

I have been reading ATS for many years now (lurker). Not offense meant, but you always seem to come off as angry and lash out at people on ATS when Catholicism gets brought up. That's something that has caught my interest is all..

Anyways, I was paraphrasing for the purpose of clarification and because I was in disbelief. This is how your post reads...

Most priests ARE mentally healthy people. They are called to the priesthood by God

If you break your sentence down it states that priests are called into the priesthood by God. You say 'priests' and then you use 'they'. Do you understand my point about that? If that's not what you had intended for it to mean then don't generalize and make blanket statements. This is an issue with your choice of words yet you felt that warranted calling me stupid and a wise-ass.

and God gives them the supernatural grace to live the lifestyle He calls them to.

Again this was in the same context so 'they' and 'them' reads to mean all priests.

I want to make something clear. Regardless of whether God chose the pedophile priests, they were still catholic priests!! They represented the Church

Oh sure .. they are humans and have some of the same baggage just like the rest of society does

But that 'baggage' should never be the pathology to molest or rape children. That's not acceptable in society, let alone for a priest of God! They should never be hushed up and hid or transfered to other churches. They should be given the choice of life in prison or Capital punishment. As you yourself said, these pedophiles won't stop.


[edit on 15-6-2007 by Cloak and Dagger]

Originally posted by Cloak and Dagger
Please don't use the term 'few' in reference to this crime. You're clearly misrepresenting

.03% of priests have been found to be pedophiles. That's FEW priests. I most definately will use the ACCURATE term 'few'. Deal with it. And those who make it sound like an epidemic are the ones that are 'clearly misrepresenting' the problem. (for their own anti-catholic agenda?)

Edited to add - "accused" doesn't equal guilty. FALSE accusations abound.
There are unsubstantiated claims for money and anti-Catholicism reasons. To date - .03% of priests have been found to be pedophiles. You can not use 'accused' numbers.

Not sure why you're insulting me?

Oh please .. go back and look at your wise-a$$ false paraphrasing.
Take a guess.

you always seem to come off as ...

Subjective and off topic.

But that 'baggage' should never be the pathology to molest or rape children. That's not acceptable in society, ...

People have baggage. It's just a fact of life. Priests are humans and they will have baggae as well. IF there is a priest who breaks the law or who is mentally unstable, then he should no longer be a priest and he should be in jail for breaking the law. Period.

You are preaching to the choir on that. I have already stated that ALL CATHOLICS are disgusted with the actions of the higher ups in shuffling pedophiles around.

The VAST MAJORITY of Catholic priests function just fine.

Don't make a claim, in all capitol letters nonetheless, that ALL catholic priests are sane, normal, function fine, etc. It's just silly.

Hey ..... READ what I posted ... I didn't say ALL. I said - The Vast Majority. geeeeeeeeeeeesh. YOU are the one that is misquoting me .. and YOU are the one putting the misquote in all capital letters. :shk:

The fact is that the vast majority of humans on this planet function just fine. That's a fact.

As for the rest of your ... uh ... comments. You are entitled to have them. I completely disagree with you. There is no use in discussing this any further. This is just a tired subject ... bash the Catholic priests - even though the VAST MAJORITY (like the rest of humanity) are just fine. :shk:

Why don't you people go start a thread about the sex crimes in the protestant churches? Or the sex crimes and pedophilia, which happens in HIGHER statistics, in public school? Not as much fun eh? It's more fun to bash the Catholics. How tiresome.

I leave you to your blood fest.

[edit on 6/15/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by FlyersFan
.03% of priests have been found to be pedophiles. That's FEW priests. I most definately will use the ACCURATE term 'few'.

Statistically speaking 0.03% sounds very low number. But 4000+ only in US does sound rather high don't you think?

I resign from further discussion with you Flyersfan. I can see talking with you would go no where.

Originally posted by yanchek

Originally posted by FlyersFan
.03% of priests have been found to be pedophiles. That's FEW priests. I most definately will use the ACCURATE term 'few'.

Statistically speaking 0.03% sounds very low number. But 4000+ only in US does sound rather high don't you think?

Thank you. That was also one of my points. So I agree with that. It's a small percentage but it's still a huge number.

Not too mention all the children that didn't report it, and the parents that didn't report what their kids told them, nor the cases the Church handled 'internally'.

Originally posted by Sparky63
For a real eye opener check out this site: www.rickross.com...

I was shocked at the sheer number of cases presented here.
There were a sprinkling of cases presented here from other religions but the vast majority involved Catholic Priests.
One link stated the Church expeditures is over $1 Billion.

Wow - now that is a schocking number of cases.

Thank You very much for this link.

I am sure it holds a lot of informations regarding this topic.

Reading all those cases was mind numbing.
The sheer volume is staggering.
Now think about the untold pain & suffering experienced by the victims and their families. It's bad enough for the priests to have done these unspeakably evil acts, but for the Church leaders to shuffle them from town to town, and parish to parish, allowing them to still have contact with children is indefensible.

Here are some of the Major settlements reached in the Catholic Clergy abuse cases:

Here are some of the largest known payouts to victims since the crisis intensified in 2002 with revelations that a molester priest was moved among parishes in the Boston Archdiocese without alerting parents or police:

Diocese of Orange, Calif., 2004, $100 million for 90 abuse claims.
Diocese of Covington, Ky., 2006, up to $85 million for 361 people.
Archdiocese of Boston, 2003, $85 million for 552 claims.
Diocese of Oakland, Calif., 2005, $56 million to 56 people.
Archdiocese of Louisville, Ky., 2003, $25.7 million to 243 victims.
Diocese of Tucson, Ariz., 2005, agrees to fund a settlement trust worth about $22 million for more than 50 victims as part of a plan to emerge from bankruptcy protection.
Diocese of Providence, R.I., 2002, $13.5 million to settle 36 claims.

www.rickross.com...

I find it interesting that now the Church says it has a zero-tolerance policy.

Cardinal Roger M. Mahony, who took over the leadership of the nation's largest archdiocese in 1985, said that the church's current policy, adopted in 2002, provides that "no priest who had ever abused a minor — no matter how long ago — would be allowed to hold an assignment."

Yet in his Diocese alone,

Seven accused priests remain in active ministry today, according to the archdiocese, with at least one abuse allegation against each of them. Church officials said accusations against the seven have not been substantiated. In all, at least 245 clergy members from the L.A. Archdiocese have been accused of molestation, according to the documents. Church officials had previously put the figure at 219.

www.rickross.com...

Notice this about their new sense of openness;

The newly released documents were prepared by church lawyers in connection with efforts to settle the pending cases. Known as proffers, they represent what the church would be prepared to concede in the settlement talks.

They are summaries of the church's personnel files with much information deleted, including names of parents or other parishioners who complained about the priests, victims' names, many details about the alleged conduct or about therapy that the priests may have undergone. They also do not include names of church officials who were warned about the priests but failed to notify authorities and parishioners about their suspicions.

www.rickross.com...

They are still withholding information, trying to cover up as much as possible. Still sheltering these pedophiles.

Lawyers for the accused priests earlier this year, had blocked an attempt by the archdiocese to release the documents. But late last month, a state appellate court said the church could release the information. A lawyer for many of the accused priests said he continued to object. "Any disclosure from personnel files violates the employee's right of privacy and ignores the legal process," said attorney Donald Steier. The church's move to release the information was a "public relations decision," he said.

www.rickross.com...

If anyone really believes that the church is interested in the truth coming to light on these matters, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

the CBC has a good show on this weekend called the same thing as the title of this thread
I look forward to seeing their report

here is the link for the CBC show to be shown on June 18 on The Passionate Eye

Created in 1962, a now infamous document was issued in secret to bishops. Called Crimen Sollicitationis, it outlined procedures to be followed by bishops when dealing with allegations of child abuse, homosexuality and bestiality by members of the clergy. It swore all parties involved to secrecy on pain of excommunication from the Catholic Church.

This document was reissued in 2001 by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger and sent to all bishops. Yet rather than ordering more openness and cooperation with the authorities as demanded by both law enforcers and the victims, he reiterated its policies and ensured that the Code of Silence be applied to all cases of child abuse involving a priest. Cardinal Ratzinger also instructed that all cases should now be referred to his office directly and that he would maintain 'exclusive competence' over the handling of allegations. This is the Catholic Church's policy to this day and Cardinal Ratzinger is now Pope Benedict XVI.

The policy laid out in the above document has led to systemic failure by the result that a significant number of priest have, in effect, been allowed to abuse again, and further children have been put at risk.

As the documentary explores, Colm O'Gorman is the man responsible for breaking open decades of abuse by Catholic Priests in Ireland in the BAFTA award-winning BBC special Suing the Pope. He links international 'systemic evidence' to argue the Vatican has a policy to cover up the sexual abuse of thousands of children across the world.

www.cbc.ca...

Originally posted by budski
I was educated, for a time, by the christian brothers in Ireland, and whilst I wasn't sexually abuse (at least to my knowledge) I was subjected to quite horrific violence, given that I was a small child...

... being beaten with hurls (the stick from hurling, an irish sport) very disturbing because hurls are often bound with metal so they don't break as easily.... beaten with sticks, shoes, fists, feet.
being put in stress positions because of minor infractions
ritual humiliation and encouraging beatings by peers.

This brings up another point, although it isn't quite related to this thread. I'm talking about physical abuse instead of sexual abuse. One of my best friends grew up attending a Catholic School, and surprise surprise he told me terrible stories of kids getting locked in closets, teachers slapping students across the face during class, and kids being taken outside to be beaten with yardsticks.

What the hell is this all about? Why do people tolerate this garbage? I am all for child discipline, but there is a difference between discipline and ABUSE. If they did this in normal public schools, there would be lawsuits left and right.