Police, SWAT Team Surround Ed Brown's Property

Whats this? SWAT teams and unmanned surveillance drones for a tax dodger?

Now who's a Police State....

Hahaha....

Originally posted by sensfan
so I guess we should just forget about every law on the books and let people do whatever they want eh? Paying taxes is the law, you don't pay, you are breaking the law and subject to punishment.

Actually there is a big debate in the Senete right now about granting amnesty to a few million people that broke a few laws on the books. I would go into more detail but that is a subject for another thread.

Needless to say, these taxes that pay for people to have these debates about what to do about these few million law breakers were thought to be unconsitutional once and the Ammendment that made it constitutional was approved without all members of Congress in attendance...Christmas Break. Easiest test would be to go through the ratification process in the States again. Or a vote with all members present. Just make sure the press has a chance to let the people know so they can voice their opinion before hand.

Also, America was not always like this. Under the original Articles Of Confederation that this country was founded on. The federal governement had no power to levy taxes, they had to ask the states for money. The states could flatly deny the request and the federal government had to say okay. A few vets from the Revolution changed all that by staging a rebellion called the Whiskey Rebellion to demand the defered payment for their service as soldiers. All because PA upped the sin tax on hard spirits and thus had the money to pay them.

Sweeeeeeeeeet. I've been wondering about this guy for the past few days.

Originally posted by apc
I'd love to see this go Waco. Afterall, there's only two things in life you can rely on...

You know... if you don't want to pay your taxes, fine. Get a lawyer and do it right. Threatening to use force to prevent paying your taxes gets you one thing and one thing only: shot.

Originally posted by sensfan
so I guess we should just forget about every law on the books and let people do whatever they want eh? Paying taxes is the law, you don't pay, you are breaking the law and subject to punishment.

Federal income tax does not help you and your community. 51% is not used for social programs, it is used for the military. Others have already stated it is not entirely lawful so I will inform you as to what it is used for. Our military is not used for our national defense anymore but as a corporate strong arm. So that is of not help to you either.

Everything you benefit from government programs comes from property tax, sales tax, gas tax and a thousand other taxes. Federal income tax is a bogus scam so the multinational corporations can have the American tax payers foot the bill for paving there way through the world.

I for one would not object to Federal income tax if it was used for health care. Take a look at how the pie is sliced

It wasn't taxes per se, it was the federal income tax. Its just one kind of tax not more than one. Also, I think during the Reagan administration they sent out a report about the income tax and found that most of your income tax doesn't pay for the services you expect. And in Aaron Russo's America Freedom to Facism, the pentagon spend billions of dollars and when someone on the federal government requests an audit the pentagon says the money is missing. But hey we already have enough taxes and the income tax is just one tax that takes away your hard work. However, on the same documentary a guy named Joe Bannister, who used to work for IRS in investigations. He mentioned that someone told him about the income tax being illegal, he became very skeptical. Then when he researched and tried to find a statute for the tax not a criminal code out of the IRS handbook. He couldn't find a law and when he confronted hi surperiors they told him to send in his resignation and not to ask questions. Then the IRS tried to take him to court for not paying his income tax, a jury acquitted bannister of tax evasion.

[edit on 7-6-2007 by grassyknoll7]

Originally posted by subject x
Why? What do taxes have to do with electricity?
Your utilities are paid directly to the companies that provide them.
Tax dollars do not provide utilities.

Actually the federal government does provide help to the utility companies in the form of subsidies, tax breaks, loans etc...

Tax money is also used to help poor people pay for things like electricity and heat with programs like LIHEAP Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program which is federally funded.

www.acf.hhs.gov...


LoneGunMan, That's interesting you say federal income tax doesn't benefit anything locally. Do you have any good links I can read etc...

I've always heard the federal income tax was started to pay for one of the world wars and was supposed to be removed afterwards and never was


[edit on 7-6-2007 by warpboost]

Ed Brown is a disturbed person, not a hero.

www.masonicinfo.com...

Originally posted by RWPBR
Ed Brown is a disturbed person, not a hero.

www.masonicinfo.com...

From the article:

It remains to be seen what will happen but those interested in this matter should fully understand that this is NOT simply about whether the US Government can collect taxes. Mr. Brown is a bigot with a long history of assorted hatreds with no basis. Tax protesting is just ONE of the ways he seeks to garner attention - and he seems to truly crave the limelight.


This article offers no evidence to support his bigotry. His views do not condemn any race. He simply believes masons - a - secret group/society, the jesuits - from the article: "The only secrets we like are our own," and zionist - a group of people that support israel, are working behind the for their own personal agendas.

Some may consider him a nutjob because they dismiss any notion of behind the scenes happenings, but some may sympathize with his cause and to those people he is a hero.


[edit on 7-6-2007 by manimal]

I have to give it to Ed Brown, he's got guts. I don't think he's a hero.

Originally posted by Ahabstar
$50,000 should be responsible...but they will not adjust those tables for inflation. If they did, the federal and state governments would spend much less in social support programs.

Actually families earning $50,000 or less pay little or no income tax. You may be confusing Payroll Deductions with Income Tax. Most of those complaining about taxes pay none anyway. You should see this mans house and property in the videos! In one video he says he paid it off while resisting taxes. Why is it sometimes the privileged are always wrong and when convenient they are right?

All public schools are subsidized. The entire Interstate Hwy. system is paid for out of income tax. Most cities get huge Federal Subsidies for everything from public utilities to libraries. I sometimes wonder how people think these things are paid for? The Constitution was created in a way so it could be amended as circumstances changed.

I was approached by a person in Montana in the 90's who was pushing the same agenda, including the long drawn out false explanation of why it was illegal to collect taxes. Everything was centered around us being under Maritime Law and they acted like anyone who did not know this was stupid. When I asked questions about legal issues they gave a song and dance but no rational answers. Politicians have nothing on these fellows when it comes to spin. I watched hours of tapes and read hundreds of pages of literature, which of course he demanded payment for. I put up the money out of curiosity.

I met about a dozen of these guys. They all carried weapons everywhere they went and their pick-up trucks were regular arsenals. They bragged about beating people up and poaching wild game. They were always angry about something and talking about shooting this person or that person. Then I found out they were all Aryan Nation supporters and that ended it for me.

The next year when there for the same contract I hired a man who was in hiding from the Aryan Nation and these same men. He was a member until when his handicapped child was born they told him he had to kill the baby to keep the race pure. He now lectures to warn people about these monsters at great risk to his life. The name eludes me at the moment but someone here could probably name him. Hiding him and helping him survive financially is one of the things I've done I'm most proud of. In fact I'm very embarrassed I can not remember his name. It has been too many years. I've seen him on TV a couple of times and heard him on the radio a few times as well.

I think this part of the article in the Local News answers any questions I have.
Link to quote below.

Ed and Elaine Brown were convicted in January of hiding nearly $2 million in income and not paying taxes on it because they insisted that federal income taxes are invalid. In April, they skipped their sentencing hearings and have been holed up in their house since.

Another wealthy person that does not want to pay there fair share. If they were poor I'd probably take the other side. But then, poor people in the United States don't pay any income tax. For those from other countries, you need to know that so you don't misunderstand what is going on. Taxes are very low until you get above $85,000 or so depending on your circumstances and if you have dependents.

I was for the guy in the beginning. As I'm tired of taxes myself. Anything and everything gets taxed. But after reading that he has 2Mil, I can't say I sympathize for the guy. But he comes off more greedy then a patriot.

Originally posted by grassyknoll7
However, on the same documentary a guy named Joe Bannister, who used to work for IRS in investigations. He mentioned that someone told him about the income tax being illegal, he became very skeptical. Then when he researched and tried to find a statute for the tax not a criminal code out of the IRS handbook. He couldn't find a law and when he confronted hi surperiors they told him to send in his resignation and not to ask questions. Then the IRS tried to take him to court for not paying his income tax, a jury acquitted bannister of tax evasion.

There's a bit more on Joe & the results of his research right over here...In a nutshell, the tax laws that specify private citizens must pay taxes on the labor they supply to the employer involves only those Citizens who do not live & work within the boundaries of the 50 States! Those Americans who live & work within the boundaries of the 50 States can list their wage\salary\compensation on the tax form as zero taxable income. In another example, if a citizen happens to own a business of any kind, the business itself must pay income taxes, but any compensation\salary that the business pays him is not taxable...Why do you think the big Corporates got into the habit of offering highly-inflated bonuses & compensation packages to their best employees? Because they knew that such packages would be considered as business expenses & therefore, deductable!
The website that I linked to just above has a lot more research into the tax laws...Worth reading about.

Sorry for the long quote here.

In 1913, the Sixteenth Amendment (www.law.cornell.edu...) to the U.S. Constitution was ratified. It empowered Congress to tax "incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration." The Internal Revenue Code is today embodied as Title 26 of the United States Code ( 26 U.S.C.) and is a lineal descendant of the income tax act passed in 1913, following ratification of the Sixteenth Amendment. While some states do not have an income tax (Nevada), all residents and all citizens of the United States are subject to the federal income tax. Not everyone, however, must file a return. The requirements for filing are found in 26 U.S.C. § 6011. As the largest contributor, its purpose is to generate revenue for the federal budget. In 1985 for example, the government collected over $450 billion in income tax from a total of $742 billion in total internal revenue receipts. The funds collected are essential for the shaping and preservation of a free market economy.

Some terms are essential in understanding income tax law. "Gross income" can be generaly defined as "all income from whatever source derived;" a more complete definition is found in 26 U.S.C. § 61. Other important definitions like "taxable income" and "adjusted gross income" can also be found in Chapter I of Title 26. These terms are not fixed nor should anyone be confident in understanding their true meaning after a cursory reading because their imputed definitions change with time. The Supreme Court, through case law, demonstrates the changing meaning of taxable income.

Individuals are not the only ones required to file income tax returns. Corporations do as well. While they are subject to may of the same rules as are individual taxpayers, they are also covered by an intricate body of rules addressed to the peculiar problems of corporations.

www.law.cornell.edu...

amazing how money is such serious business that the whole world has to destroy itself for a piece of paper or metal... people should help me out and give me some so I can make it a better place.

It's just sad that people that do well and enjoy themselves while helping others (ALL others, truly in need) are out in the open so much that it just seems so regular that there's no need for "us" to help anyone else because theres enough people "helping" already (for a pay cheque of course).

and we hide the criminals and don't show their deeds, and the only criminals we do show are the animalistic criminals, the murderers and rapists, not the corporate geniuses or the con-artists, or the priests and religious figures who don't even believe in the religions they collect charity for.

I'm sure that Ed Brown MIGHT not be the most sane person I've ever met, but there's a guy who lives down the street from me who talks to people who aren't there, so I'm guessing its not that uncommon.
We should all know the tax controversy by now.. and the fact that we shouldn't be paying them (at least the way they're currently constructed)

The Hart report demonstrates there is absolutely no foundation to the position of the Executive branch (the Treasury Department, the IRS and the Department of Justice) that wages and salaries EQUALS taxable “income” within the meaning of the 16th Amendment, or that an individual’s wages, received in direct exchange for his labor, equals income and is, therefore, taxable under the Sixteenth Amendment.
On the other hand, the report proves beyond a shadow of doubt what “income” means within the meaning of the 16th Amendment -- that a corporation may derive “income” from labor, as that corporation utilizes labor in pursuit of profits, and that such corporate income is taxable. Likewise, a person or a corporation may derive “income” from investments in stocks and bonds or real estate, and that such (passive) income is taxable.
----------------------------
However, in 1916, as Mr. Hart’s report demonstrates, the Supreme Court brought the devilish action of Congress and the Executive branch to a screeching halt. The Supreme Court ruled in Brushaber (and the cases bundled with it), that wages are NOT income within the meaning of the 16th Amendment.

This excerpt was quoted from here & is derived from the Hart Report, which can be obtained here.

The second new research report, by a highly experienced and credentialed tax professional, who wishes to remain anonymous, is entitled, “Analysis of the Federal Income Tax Laws.”
-----------------------
According to the report, in 1913, just months after the purported ratification of the 16th Amendment, Congress attempted to stretch the meaning of the legal term “income” beyond the meaning and intent of the framers of the 16th Amendment, as recorded in EVERY official and professional document of the era: congressional record, congressional reports, law reviews, journals of political science, newspapers of record and so forth.
In the Income Tax Act of 1913, Congress surreptitiously, by stealth and without authority, included an un-apportioned, direct tax on the salaries, wages and compensation of ordinary Americans and instituted withholding at the source.
--------------------------
What the research by anonymous also shows, however, was the dark side of the government – the reluctance of Congress to give up the tax potential of an un-apportioned, direct tax on labor (and the power and control that tax-money brings), and Congress’ willingness to deliberately obfuscate the law in order to perpetuate a fraud on the American people.
---------------------------
As the anonymous research clearly proves, the Brushaber decision prompted Congress to revise the 1913 Act, and via Section 25 of the Federal Income Tax Act of 1916 (amended in 1917), Congress declared that the "income" subject to the 1913 Act was not the same “income” to be taxed under the 1916 Act. However, Congress did not go any further. What was the purpose of this change in the language, and by extension, its legal effect?
CONGRESS PURPOSELY AND DECEITFULLY DID NOT EXPLAIN WHAT WAS MEANT BY SECTION 25.

So, by the writ in the government's own records, the perpetrator of "tax fraud" is the government itself.

Originally posted by Blaine91555
All public schools are subsidized. The entire Interstate Hwy. system is paid for out of income tax. Most cities get huge Federal Subsidies for everything from public utilities to libraries. I sometimes wonder how people think these things are paid for? The Constitution was created in a way so it could be amended as circumstances changed.

Schools are paid for by the state in which they reside and some states and districts have seperate taxes on income and property taxes. I pay 1% of income directly to the state for my local school district. Some federal money is paid to the states for distribution as they see fit earmarked for education.

Federal excise taxes on gasoline $0.42 currently pays for the interstate system, states also have a tax rate. For commercial traffic, annual operating fees are collected, taxes at the pump both federal and state and quarterly additional payments on fuel purchased both to federal and the state purchased in at each state's rate the fuel was purchased. Not counting taxes at the pump a commercial truck owner pays almost enough to buy a good used car every year, just in taxes, fees and tolls alone. There are 3.2 million OTR truck drivers between owners and company drivers. Avereage fuel ecconomy is 4.5 mpg. That means roughly $67 per truck per day in just the federal tax at the pump alone. Or $16.5 million per day, assuming only 2.5 million drivers are working that day. 400 million gallons of gasoline are estimated to be used every day in the US so that is $168 million in federal tax per day. Roughly $67.3425 billion per year. The annual budget for the US DOT for 2007 is $65.642 Billion. US DOT also includes FAA, all Maritine and surface road agencies.

That is about $1.2 billion more than their entire operating budget, not counting avaition and maritine income, nor the extra paid by commercial trucks. Just how much of the estimated $4.132 Trillion collected as income tax in 2006 is needed by the US DOT? I can see needing emergency funding to repair roads and bridges from Katrina as that was unexpected.

I believe people should pay a fair share but I also think people need to know that Uncle Sam has more than one income source and those striped pants need to have the holes in the pockets fixed. Especially when treaties such as NAFTA removed much in the way of duties and tarriffs that made job outsourcing cost prohibitive in many manufacturing processes. I mean nothing is more American than a new pair of Levi jeans...except they are not made in America anymore.

But while on the subject of the IRS, in 2006 they outsourced collections to private collection agencies that get to keep 22-24% of the amount collected. Yes, your private information is freely given to private companies that quite frankly can do with it as they please. Damage is done before any legal system can stop them. And I am forced to wonder how many call centers in India those companies are free to use.

Originally posted by Blaine91555

Actually families earning $50,000 or less pay little or no income tax. You may be confusing Payroll Deductions with Income Tax. Most of those complaining about taxes pay none anyway. You should see this mans house and property in the videos! In one video he says he paid it off while resisting taxes. Why is it sometimes the privileged are always wrong and when convenient they are right?

*Combining comments here*
$2 million eh? That would have been $1 million in federal taxes if it was all made in one year. Anything over $500,000 in adjusted income is taxed at 50% by the federal. States have their own rates. He will pay much more now, I am sure.

Families of 4 with less than $50K have nice tax adjustment for various deductions. Single people that can not afford a morgage and have an income around $21K (about $10/hour full time) get the shaft on taxes as their income has only the standard deduction (usually) and their cost of living is higher percentage-wise than the family of 4. Despite earning more than twice than minimum wage their future golden years will be in abject poverty as SSI retirement benefits will be about $500/mo. which may not cover food in 2057 for the average 20 year old today.

Allowing this 20 year old to keep the extra $4000 per year could be an extra $200K at 0.0% intrest over the next 50 years. Not much, but better living conditions than what he will face. Just saving that $4000 for 5 years would be $20K. Enough to invest in a house or open a small business like a copy/print shop or corner store.

That Ed Brown guy is a good person.
If you cannot see he's a good person then you cannot see anything clearly.

Or you are to young to understand human nature.
he's good.

He gave the reporter a DVD - That shows he's good intentions.
Don't troll on him...Where is your hearts.