One-fifth of world's surveillance focused on Brits!

Being an ex CCTV engineer i think i know a little bit about the subject..

The majority of cameras in this country ARE privately owned and run.

These cameras are fitted privately by people such as myself and are maintained by people like myself.

Most Installations are in shops (stores) on the high street and filling stations where as said before they are placed to deter the increasing amount of drive offs and shoplifters , Casino's are another huge operator of CCTV systems and they are just that , Closed Circuit Television. No link to anywhere else!!

NO ONE can view off the premises without permission and the police must record when they remove a recording for evidence, the tape or disc are always returned OR destroyed!!

I used to maintain the European base for AMEX here in Brighton, i could view through this system anywhere in the WORLD including the offices in the states and there were a lot of cameras there.

IMHO cameras are a good deterent to stop a lot of crime on the streets and citizens here in the uk are not allowed to bear arms so people like to feel a little safer on the streets as i do when walking through the crap hole which is Brighton!!

The shouting camera thing , well im sure that was just a trial in one city and im sure that was middlesborough, and if anything i hear the people in the street used to flip the operator the middle finger if shouted at.

It is not as bad as BIG BROTHER ! we are free to do anything we want as long as it is law abiding , step out of line, and ur spotted, well , sorry, u asked for it !!!!

Bit long guys i am sorry

git

[edit on 7-6-2007 by completenuttergit]

[edit on 7-6-2007 by completenuttergit]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf

Sure. The US is definitely marching steadily towards police state status. In some areas, like New York City, are almost there. But Britain is there. And people here seem to have embraced it with little protest.

If Americans don't wake the hell up and start protesting LOUDLY surveilance as fervently as they protest gay marriage, we could end up in the same miserable situation.

If its that bad, why don't you go home?

[edit on 7/0607/07 by neformore]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Britain is definitely more police statish than the US. Ive been living here for a year and a half, and I never am ceased to be amazed by the amount of cameras and intrusion of the nannystate it is here.

Nanny State, yes. Police State it is not. If you live here, then you must surely agree that our Police are utterly unable to enforce anything close to what is a Police State.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
My husband certainly noticed when he was in the states. He asked me where the speedcameras were, and I asked him what a speed camera was. We simply do not have them in the majority of areas in the states, where it seems they are all over the place here.

Given the amount of deaths on US roads as a result of speeding, is it not about time? Speeding is a crime, ergo, must be punished. You either have thousands of police sitting by the roadside with radar guns, which cost a huge amount, or you have speed camera's doing the same thing.

What is the difference? In the states, your "Troopers" (I love that term, so Neo-Nazi!!) will be sat by the highway watching for someone breaking the law. Here, we just have a camera catch them do it and post them the fine.

What is the difference?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
I also notice far more cameras, both government owned and in private, in general. We have CCTV in the states in a number of places. But nowhere NEAR the level Ive seen it used here.

Whats your problem? I don;t understand why people get so sniffy about CCTV. Don't like it? Don't shop lift then!

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Not to mention numerous other state controls. Like microships in your dustbins to make sure you are recycling.

And where do they do this?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Talk of per use road tax with microchips on cars.

Years away if it ever passes Parliament. Good idea, IMO. Pay as you go road tax. Much fairer.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Massive burocracy just to add a flagpole to your property or convert your home.

They are amending the archaic (yes, old laws clog up the planning reg's) to make it easier to change your house.

And why on earth do you want a smegging flag pole?

You haven't, have you?

Oh no.... You have.... >groan<

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Spy sattelites to take pictures of your house to see if you have added on any improvements so they can tax you accordingly.

What? Yeah, ok.... What tax are you on about as well?

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Sure. The US is definitely marching steadily towards police state status. In some areas, like New York City, are almost there. But Britain is there. And people here seem to have embraced it with little protest.

If Americans don't wake the hell up and start protesting LOUDLY surveilance as fervently as they protest gay marriage, we could end up in the same miserable situation.

Miserable? How is CCTV making you miserable? Is it hampering your criminal activities in the local shopping centre?

I dont understand the whole "the UK is more of a police state" "the U.S. is more of a police state" bit.

A police state isnt any good for anyone. Its a pretty foolish back and forth. It doesnt matter where the police state is. It only matters that it is destryoed. And fast. This back and forth reminds me of all the Democrats/Republicans back and forth nonsense. Stupidity like that gets us all screwed. We get all caught up fighting each other. Its like complaining that one neighborhood has higher crime and arguing with a friend about whos neighborhood is worse. Meanwhile both of your homes get broken into.

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I dont understand the whole "the UK is more of a police state" "the U.S. is more of a police state" bit.

It's not that we're arguing over who has a bigger Police State, but rather me and neformore seem to spend a great deal of time and energy addressing the now weekly threads that pop up claiming something which is utter rubbish.

Just because Americans have an unnatural Paranoia over anything the can't shoot or blow up, doesn't mean they have to spread such blatant lies about a country most of them couldn't even find on a map, let alone have actually been too.

Ok that last post by stumason i find offensive since it categorizes all Americans for the ineptitude, paranoia, and actions of a few. Thats almost as bad as the weekly posts you hate so much

Originally posted by Karl7772000
Ok that last post by stumason i find offensive since it categorizes all Americans for the ineptitude, paranoia, and actions of a few. Thats almost as bad as the weekly posts you hate so much

Funnily, enough, it is factually accurate. Polls suggest that 10% of Americans can't find America on the map and that almost 50% cannot find Iraq.

Here be a linky that I litterally just grabbed off the web. plenty more for you to peruse if you want....

[edit on 7/6/07 by stumason]

Ohh you meant people in my age range XD well in that case i agree most people around 21 here are idiots, but i dont associate with them, besides its a poor public school system mainly at fault.


*i apologize for making the topic go slightly off the tracks*

[edit on 6/7/2007 by Karl7772000]

How is it "not thier fault" if they drop litter? If an officer SEES them doing so then frankly they deserve it, I personally like the idea of keeping our streets clean do you?

Not when some 50 year old woman is fined 60 quid, because her granddaughter accidently dropped her packet of crisps on the ground, she forgot to pick up 2, and was fined for it. Come on, the wardens could have been more leniant....

Look if you dont want to believe us then fine go ahead and believe what you want.believe the army has a UAV above your house everyday because frankly I couldnt care less. just to mention mate your living in the one of the most liberal of the 4 states of the UK, we have no tresspass laws

Oh dont worry I will believe what I want, And btw who is us? You? Stumason? I see it every day on T.V., in real live, I do live in the UK. lived in the UK all my live..maybe I see things in a different perspective than you do eh.... Actually it is the police who have use of it, and no I could care less what you post on here as well......Yeah so liberal, our freedoms are slowly being eroded... Actually it is is not 4 states It is 4 countrys..... The Gov and those behind the Gov are players in this..

Whats your problem? I don;t understand why people get so sniffy about CCTV. Don't like it? Don't shop lift then!

So in your opinion, everyone who doesnt like CCTV is a shoplifter?, that is down right ignorant, oh why dont we put everyone in the same basket eh......

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Not when some 50 year old woman is fined 60 quid, because her granddaughter accidently dropped her packet of crisps on the ground, she forgot to pick up 2, and was fined for it. Come on, the wardens could have been more leniant....

You convieniently forgot to mention the outcome of this when word of it got out, where the local authority who employed the wardens realised just how bloody stupid it was, admitted that their employees had acted rashly, dropped the fine and apologised to the woman in question.

Every organisation has a "jobsworth" member of staff who sticks to rules almost as if its their religion. The nutters make the headlines, as in this case.

But I guess that didn't fit the impression you wanted to give.

[edit on 7/0607/07 by neformore]

Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Not when some 50 year old woman is fined 60 quid, because her granddaughter accidently dropped her packet of crisps on the ground, she forgot to pick up 2, and was fined for it. Come on, the wardens could have been more leniant....

You want a act of parliment saying : "Officers and wardens should be more lenient towards little girls and OAP's..."?
Come on man, you and I both know its up to how sound an officer is or how much of A hole he or she is. Your taking it to the extreme saying that you get fined EVERY time, most times it will be warning.

Oh dont worry I will believe what I want, And btw who is us? You? Stumason? I see it every day on T.V., in real live, I do live in the UK. lived in the UK all my live..maybe I see things in a different perspective than you do eh

A) I know you live in the UK, I even stated that in the qoute you qouted...
B) If you see cameras everyday then maybe you would know that almost all of them are run by private corporations and buisnesses rather than the all seeing all buerocratic goverment.

.... Actually it is the police who have use of it,

Yeah if they get a court order for most of them! Oh sorry yes the occasional one in a town centre and by the motorways, the all seeing eye of the UK police state is upon you! Puuullleease man, tell me you have some sense!

and no I could care less what you post on here as well......Yeah so liberal, our freedoms are slowly being eroded... Actually it is is not 4 states It is 4 countrys..... The Gov and those behind the Gov are players in this..

Ahem: Define state...

the group of people comprising the government of a sovereign state; "the state has lowered its income tax"
the territory occupied by one of the constituent administrative districts of a nation; "his state is in the deep south

And : Define country

A country, a land, or a state, is a geographical area that connotes an independent political entity, with its own government, administration, laws, often a constitution, police, military, tax rules, and population, who are one another's countrymen

Scotland does not have an independant government, it is very close to one but it does not have one , can the first minister control the military or enact special powers unless they declare a state of emergancy? Noooo they cant.
Sorry mate but scotlands not quite there yet.

i live in pennsylvania usa and just about a week ago they placed video cameras at a main intersection in the town of old forge pa. if i get a chance ill take a picture. britain was the experiment, it worked, our turn

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Not to mention numerous other state controls. Like microships in your dustbins to make sure you are recycling. Talk of per use road tax with microchips on cars. Massive burocracy just to add a flagpole to your property or convert your home. Spy sattelites to take pictures of your house to see if you have added on any improvements so they can tax you accordingly.

Wow didn't know bout that one! If thats not a sign of big brother run rampant in the UK I dont know what is. Microchipped dustbins, wow. The sleeping UK posters here will probably just say that:

• "Its only a PILOT PROGRAM"
  or...
  
  
• "We have RAMPANT abuse of our recycling program, people placing glass in the paper bin and placing aluminum in the glass bins!"
  
  

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Sure. The US is definitely marching steadily towards police state status. In some areas, like New York City, are almost there. But Britain is there. And people here seem to have embraced it with little protest.

Yes the UK has embraced it without so much as a sniffle, thanks alot, since the UK is a testbed for such Orwellian programs, it will be considered a success and will be propagating elsewhere. Like to us PARANOID Americans. Don't you see, you've been programmed to think that this all HELPS the people, it HELPS stop crime, it HELPS stop terrorism, its GOOD FOR YOU, any other thinking is UNPATRIOTIC and PARANOID, if you DO NOTHING WRONG, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
If Americans don't wake the hell up and start protesting LOUDLY surveilance as fervently as they protest gay marriage, we could end up in the same miserable situation.

Trying to... by examining the tactics that have been employed and embraced in the UK and learning from them, hopefully preventing it elsewhere, like in the USA. But is it falling on deaf ears due to the manipulation of the media and the fluffy news pieces and the PARIS HILTON news far outweighing the IMPORTANT news pieces done?

Check out the next generation of cameras that are currently on trial in various parts of the UK. These "intelligent" cameras have been designed to identify traits deemed as suspicious behaviour and will then lock on and monitor the individual or individuals deemed to be potentially anti social.

CCTV made a positive impact on the small town i grew up in, noticeably reducing the alcohol induced fights that would happen every weekend at night! I'm not too sure about these intelligent cameras as of yet, surely they are bound to make judgemental errors, as they are computer controlled


www.dailymail.co.uk

Originally posted by greatlakes
Wow didn't know bout that one! If thats not a sign of big brother run rampant in the UK I dont know what is. Microchipped dustbins, wow. The sleeping UK posters here will probably just say that:

• "Its only a PILOT PROGRAM"
  or...
  
  
• "We have RAMPANT abuse of our recycling program, people placing glass in the paper bin and placing aluminum in the glass bins!"
  
  

Sleeping? Mate I've been all over this country and off its coast more times than you've probably read about it, I have never for the life of me heard of anyone doing this. If so then its a waste of taxpayer money and I'd prefer it spent on police instead of weelie bins.

Yes the UK has embraced it without so much as a sniffle, thanks alot, since the UK is a testbed for such Orwellian programs, it will be considered a success and will be propagating elsewhere. Like to us PARANOID Americans. Don't you see, you've been programmed to think that this all HELPS the people, it HELPS stop crime, it HELPS stop terrorism, its GOOD FOR YOU, any other thinking is UNPATRIOTIC and PARANOID, if you DO NOTHING WRONG, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.

Umm have you actually listened to anything we've said or are you more concerned with the fact that your on tv? I mean no offence but tell me how this is an actual police state, the government has no control over most of the cameras....are you implying that the buisness's, private homes and corporations are really creating a "police state" instead of the government? Because thats more believable and more possible than anything else you have suggested so far..

Trying to... by examining the tactics that have been employed and embraced in the UK and learning from them, hopefully preventing it elsewhere, like in the USA. But is it falling on deaf ears due to the manipulation of the media and the fluffy news pieces and the PARIS HILTON news far outweighing the IMPORTANT news pieces done?

Yeah.....having 1 camera in your town centre is really going to bring down democracy....having a speed camera force people to slow down is really going to bring down democracy.

I find it rather funny your telling me what to do, have you ever stepped on british soil might I ask?
Have you ever actually SEEN one of these cameras in real life? From the sounds of it you havent...but then again these are the same people that brought us the WMD link wasnt it.....

The US and the UK.

Two cultures seperated by a common language.

It appears from this, and the other "police state" threads that have cropped up recently, that no matter what is said by someone who lives in a country, and no matter what their experiences are, and no matter how much they explain something to certain Americans, what they say doesn't matter, because its not the American view.

The fact that the UK has a totally different cultural outlook to the US is completely lost on you, as is the fact that we see things from our own perspective and do things differently. And nothing we try and explain to the contrary is actually going to change your mind.

You may as well just continually type USA over and over again in your posts and have done with it. You don't want to listen or discuss, you just want to hear your own noise.

It explains alot. It explains how the neocons got into the Whitehouse. It explains how the whole Iraq fiasco got sold to people in the US.

If its not coming from your own lips you don't want to hear it, don't care about and and really really do not give a toss. If its not your way, then it has no place being in your world.

THE UK MANTRA, BOUGHT HOOK LINE & SINKER

"If you've done nothing wrong then you've nothing to worry about"

"We appreciate that the cameras and some of the other measures are seen as invasive, but only people who really have something to worry about should be concerned," David Morgan, a Metropolitan Police Chief Superintendent, said on a tour of the (UK underground CCTC) bunker.

This one by: David Morgan, a Metropolitan Police Chief Superintendent
www.dailymail.co.uk...

"This isn't about keeping tabs on people, it's about making the streets safer for the law-abiding majority and helping to change the attitudes of those who cause trouble. It challenges unacceptable behavior and makes people think twice."

english.ohmynews.com...


So for all the Brits (and others) who believe the invasion of your privicy is only a 'trial' or that your innocent and you've "done nothing wrong" so you've nothing to worry about:

If you've done nothing wrong you've nothing to worry about? Really? Tell that to the MILLIONS of Jews living in Europe preceding and during WWII who were rounded up by NAZI Germany. "It wasn't a Crime to be Jewish in Germany in 1932 - it was a Death Sentence by 1942. -=George Orwell=-

Greatlakes, I responded to every one of Skadi's assertions, yet you choose to ignore me over her.

Also, in previous post's I have proven your assertions to be wildly off the mark, yet you choose to ignore it and pretend I never posted.

Talk about ignorance of the highest order. Honestly, you try to deny it and it just keeps on spreading.

Freeradical. Your source is the Daily Mail and as such should be taken with a pinch of Cheshire....

They always blow everything out of proportion.

Originally posted by greatlakes
So for all the Brits (and others) who believe the invasion of your privicy is only a 'trial' or that your innocent and you've "done nothing wrong" so you've nothing to worry about:

I'll ask you again as you ignored me last time I asked.

WHAT PRIVACY IS BEING INVADED?

[edit on 7/6/07 by stumason]

Originally posted by stumason
Given the amount of deaths on US roads as a result of speeding, is it not about time? Speeding is a crime, ergo, must be punished. You either have thousands of police sitting by the roadside with radar guns, which cost a huge amount, or you have speed camera's doing the same thing.

What is the difference? In the states, your "Troopers" (I love that term, so Neo-Nazi!!) will be sat by the highway watching for someone breaking the law. Here, we just have a camera catch them do it and post them the fine.

What is the difference?

Whats the difference? Its simple, HUMAN EYES vs. ELECTRONIC EYES.
Electronic eyes (cameras) data can be catalogued and referenced and analyzed in milliseconds, checking and recording EVERY license plate that happens by it, every face and analyzing it against facial recognition systems. Try doing that with HUMAN eyes attached to a police officer.

Originally posted by stumason
WHAT PRIVACY IS BEING INVADED?

If you don't know or see it for yourself then I can't inform you of which of the privacy rights are being affected.

[edit on 7-6-2007 by greatlakes]