Where are we in the bible?

So it seems that the next thing that is about to happen according to the bible is that an army of 200 million is coming, whether the forces be demonic, supernatural or symbolic.

I don't know about the sequence. I don't think anyone does.

My own inference, extrapolation is that God has kept things somewhat fuzzy as a good general avoiding allowing satan and forces to have too many clues about what God will do when. We shall see.

Some feel that the next thing is for Russia and Iran to attack Israel and no one to come to Israel's aid but God Almighty--which would cause some interesting responses all around.

But I think it may be too early, for that.

Certainly, in any case, the NWO global government folks will continue settingthings up to scare the world's citizens into the global government . . . and to shred a list of freedoms along the way.

I left you a comment on your other thread.

I think it's far safer, with MOST of Biblical END TIMES PROPHECIES

to expect LITERAL FULFILLMENT--perhaps LITERAL AND SYMBOLIC--but GENERALLY--at least literally. There are some exceptions, no doubt.

I think China would not lack ways to trounce the USA. Especially with globalist super traitor peanut brain/rabbit jousting Jimmuh Carter giving away the Panama canal; pulling out of Taiwan . . . and essentially giving China bases on both ends of the canal. Of course he was ordered to do such. But he could have blown the whistle and been a patriotic martyr instead. I still consider him the worst President--or near so.

Though it was Klintoon who deliberately sold

NUKE

and

missle

secrets to China for personal political gain, money.

DC seems to have no lack of traitors in our era--that so many fuel China's capacity to destroy us is mind boggling.

Originally posted by Prokurator
I've heard of great things predicted in the bible and that once they are fulfilled we will have the second coming of the Messiah. So what predictions in the bible have been fulfilled, i.e. on what page are we now and what prophesy should be fulfilled next. Does anyone know?

Hi,

We are exactly at the resurrection of the dead in Christ, attended by earthquakes worldwide and the ufo/alien/demons in disguise invasion as they are thrown down

carmichael

Not my perspective by a wide margin.

Past centuries may have had 3-4--5 at a stretch . . . significant issues which SEEMED to be pointed in the prophesied direction of according to some at the time . . .

HOWEVER, SINCE ISRAEL HAD NOT BECOME A NATION AGAIN IN A DAY--TO KICK OFF THE END TIMES PROPHETIC CLOCK . . . such speculations were UNBIBLICAL, not well thought out; silly.

1948 changed all that.

NOW, THER ARE 100'S F DATA POINTS INDICATING THAT THESE ARE THE END TIMES.

That's a huge difference.

But the site listed upthread about 100 prophecies is a good place to start to see how and why this era is EXTREMELY UNIQUE IN TERMS OF BIBLICAL PROPHECY--NEVER HAS BEEN AN ERA EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO IT.

NEVER. Nor will there ever be again.

looked up some verses

THE WHOLE WORLD IS GONNA SHAKE !!

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

EARTHQUAKE RESURRECTION !!


Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

See also Ezekiel's dry bones prophecy in chapter 37 of his book.

EARTHQUAKE RESURRECTION !!
www.earthquakeresurrection.com...



Isa 54:7 For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.


Isa 54:8 In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.


more info here and other threads about Elijah and the daughter of zion who are the two witnesses: heartdaughter.com...

The prophecy that I am watching for is the fall of Damascus as prophecied by Isaiah.

Isaiah 17:1 — The burden of Damascus. Behold, Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap


Now, Damascus is the worlds oldest city and has never been laid waste as described here in Isaiah. So, I watch the events in Syria with both eyes.


Also, the 200,000,000 man army is a conglomeration of the kings (plural) of the East, not just one, and will probably include a number of Middle Eastern countries along with their allies. Any country East of Jerusalem is a candidate to be a part of this coalition.


Also, as for the rebuilding of the Temple, I am not so sure that this will happen before Jesus returns.

I feel that this has already happened when Antiochus Epiphanes (168 BC) sacrificed a pig on the alter of burnt-offerings and declared that he should be worshipped as god by the Jewish people. Antiochus also polluted the whole building (Temple) by sprinkling it with water in which flesh had been boiled, dedicated the Temple itself to Jupiter Olympius, and erected the statue of that deity, and plundered the temple treasures.

Antiochus Epiphanes represents the type of 'the abomination of desolation' foretold by the prophet Daniel, on the altar of the Lord in the inner court of the Temple.

latter-rain.com...

The Jews revolted as a result of Antiochus Epiphanies desires to Hellinize the Jews (The Maccebean revolt) and the rest is history.
The Temple was ultimately destroyed in 70AD to begin the great Jewish diaspora which ended in 1945 (The Generation which Jesus said will be the last).

I'm not saying the Temple will not be rebuilt, only that the Abomination that makes desolate has already happened!

Certainly the destruction of Damascus is a biggy pending.

I know it's one of the oldest cities . . . I suspect several in China are just as old and continuously inhabited.

The pig in the Holy of Holies was

NOT

the image of THE Anti-Christ during THE END TIMES

AFTER

the Dispersed Israel [AD 70] was called back to the Holy Land in 1948.

Cannot be the fulfillment of that prophecy at all.

Further, WHEN that occurs IN THE FUTURE, and thereby

the Israeli's wake up and realize they have been duped

AND

that the Anti-Christ is NOT their true Messiah--he will begin to slaughter them from the Temple courtyard outward massively as they flee.

All that's prophesied and has NOT happened yet.

Originally posted by golddragnet
Well who is on this planet claiming In Place of Christ, and also claims to be infallible.

Oh boy ... the ol' 'the pope is the anti-christ' thing eh?

1 - the pope doesn't claim to be 'infallible'. DOCTRINE that comes from the chair of Peter is 'infallible' in Catholic eyes. Not the pope himself.

2 - the anti-christ has to be admired worldwide and respected and LISTENED TO. Less then 10% of Catholics actually follow Catholic teching and listen to spiritual direction from Rome.

Originally posted by golddragnet
Are you suggesting the Pope isn't the ruler of the Vatican, so what is the declaration of infallibillity all about?

Get a Catholic catechism and read about the Catholic faith. You don't understand 'infallibility' in the Catholic Church. It has NOTHING to do with the pope personally.

Originally posted by golddragnet

Originally posted by d60944
The Pope was not its emperor, nor its ruler.

He became its ruler. Whatever way you chose to look at it, or how it evolved, the Holy Roman Empire was a follow on from the Roman Empire.

Whatever the positions of the Emperor and Pope with regard to rulership. The HRE really is not much like the heir to the Roman Empire in reality. The Emperors and the Pope seem certain that they *thought* they were continuning it though. But that would be in part becuase they refused to recognise the ligitimacy of the real Christian Latin Roman Empire itself, still exisiting happily in the Eastern Mediterranean unbroken from the time of Caesar Augustus. If you have a bone to pick with the Roman Empire, why not pick it with Byzantium?

I am not and hadn't intended to go into the whole evolvement of the Vatican and the Holy Roman Empire here.

The problem is that in making sweeping assertions not backed up by the complexity and subtleties of reality, you stand to mislead people.

In the 1300's a Pope openly declared to the public that he was Ceasar.

No. This is oversimplification to the point of being misleading. You will be aware that onece the idea of the HRE had become established, its earlier history was fraught with ideological struggle bewteen the Emperor and Rome, each claiming authority over the other, and this struggle escalated through the 13th century. There had long been a debate over the temporal authority of Rome within Christendom. The case of Henry IV is a case in point:
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

The Papal States were a kind of kingdom in their own right at this time. But consider that under Frederick II during the pontificate of Gregory IX, these States were actually invdaded by the Emperor - a bizarre act if you claim that the Pope is leading the HRE.

It was Pope Boniface VIII who may have claimed to be "Emperor" (by this time "Caesar" means Emperor - as it still does in vast numbers of European languages) in some senses. He clearly didn't mean that he was the actual HREmperor, as he continued to recognise the HRE. What he was stating was that Rome held ultimate jurisdiction over the HRE and all kings of Christendom (formalised in a Bull). This was not a settled matter by any means though, whatever he might have wanted, and later Popes moved away from this claim in practice. As with all this, context is everything.

www.newadvent.org...
www.newadvent.org... - 3rd para ("Process...")

Are you suggesting the Pope isn't the ruler of the Vatican, so what is the declaration of infallibillity all about?

I don't think I said anything about the Vatican rulership at all. Why bring this and Papal Infallibility up?

Your reply missed the point of what I was posting in an effort to sound clever.

My reply was there to prevent people erecting a nonsense theory on oversimplified and incorrect notions of the institutions concerned. The history of rival claims to tempopral authority (kings [eg. of France and England], Emperors and Popes) does not show a settled outcome. The Roman Empire, the HRE, medieval kingdoms and the Papacy just do not flow into each other in the way you want them to.

Best wishes.

just got a confirmation on the shaking of the whole earth being the next event


heartdaughter.com...
excerpt:

"Prepare for the great shaking of this earth. For I shall once again cause this earth to stagger off its moorings. I shall shake this earth until east becomes west and west becomes east. Not one person shall escape this last shaking but a few shall stand in the midst of it and dispense healing to the shattered and broken."

Originally posted by BO XIAN

It seems to me, the 200 million are demonic forces or supernatural--other--forces of some kind.

I`m thinking along the same lines.

"9. The herpisaurians pursued them cloaked behind the veils of sandora. Animusae became lost. A blindness struck and caused them to venture into the central abyss of Archadia where they lost all means to navigate. It had been decreed that only Shatan and a small portion of his animusian army be spared the eternal doom but that they would be confined in the etheral realms of the astral for a time until he and his legions will be released to the physical do battle again at the end of the age of the poissonis.
10. In that day they will discover Terra in the physical as foretold by the Oracle of the system Osiris near Arcturus."

www.geocities.com...

I have premonitions of powerful earthquakes. The feeling is so strong at times it is almost one of immediate expectation and anticipation, like they are going to start any moment.


In reply to the post previous to the one above, I believe the Bull you refer to is just that, bull. That is, if you are talking about the Donation of Constantine. The DOC is a forgery. Along with the Psuedo-Isidorian Decretals. Very successful fakes, but still fakes.

To quote from, "A Summary of Christian History" by Robert A. Baker, revised by John M. Landers:

Page 95
By the time they had been proved to be a forgery in the eighteenth century, this fraud had been effective in establishing the power of the pope over the church.

Furthermore,

Page 59
Constantine was a political genius. From his comparitively meager understanding of Christianity and his brief contact with it, he concluded two things: (1) Christianity would become the dominant religious system of the world, and (2) the dying Roman Empire could be saved, or at least prolonged, by a union with this dynamic religion.

The Roman Empire went from being an empire of the flesh to being an empire of the spirit, a deal sealed by Charlemagne and Pope Leo III in 800 CE.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
In reply to the post previous to the one above, I believe the Bull you refer to is just that, bull. That is, if you are talking about the Donation of Constantine. The DOC is a forgery. Along with the Psuedo-Isidorian Decretals. Very successful fakes, but still fakes.

This is not in doubt at all. The RCC agrees with the fact it is forgery quite vehemently, and has done so for several centuries:
www.newadvent.org...
www.newadvent.org...

But the DOC would not have been a bull. It laid down no doctrine and was not promulgated by the Church as such, but used by churchpeople as a way to try to stake claims to temporal power. It was supposed to have been written by an Emperor, not by a Pope or any other churchman. It purports to grant territorial rights to the Church. A kind of forged deed of land transfer if you like.

These forgeries are idicative of the point I was making though, which is that there was a fierce battle going on between Church, HRE (once it was founded) and kingdoms over who possessed what authority for many centuries from the fall of Rome right into the middle ages. Even the city of Rome itself still possessed its ancient ruling families after the fall of Rome. There was frequently great animosity between Rome itself and the Vatican, with Popes being persecuted by the Roman citizens (in fairness, probably the animosity went both ways), who saw themselves as the true heirs to the ancient empire. The Vatican was more than once abandoned to rot and ruin. And therefore the claim that the Roman Empire merely merged into the Church, and/or merely merged into the HRE is absolute nonsense. All the powers of Europe were fighting against each other for power, not working together, and were definitely not correlative. Quite distinct and quite different.

The bull I was referring to was Unam sanctam, which laid out what is sometimes called the "two swords" doctrine of the Church's authority. It was the culmination (sort of) of the battle between Church, HRE and kingdoms of Christendom about who was the authority in temporal matters. It is very, very difficult to sift this document and work out what is doctrine and what is early 14th century politics though...

The statements concerning the relations between the spiritual and the secular power are of a purely historical character, so far as they do not refer to the nature of the spiritual power, and are based on the actual conditions of medieval Western Europe.

- from the first link below

More details here:

www.newadvent.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

Best wishes.

[edit on 3-6-2007 by d60944]

[edit on 3-6-2007 by d60944]

[edit on 3-6-2007 by d60944]

Yes, there was quite a power struggle. The outcome for what became the RCC was quite close to the one intended by Constantine for the Roman Empire.

The shoe fits.

God bless.

Sorry to come in late on this important topic

Straight answer;
Given that most of what Daniel said about the King of the north and the king of the south has never happened I think that we may have just moved into an "end of days period" and I am specualtion that the first few verses of that final period had begun so I give another two centuries at least.

now this conflicts very markedly with the elder of my religion (Plmouth Brethren) John Nelson Darby who formualted a theory of bible interpretation which clearly i do not accept despite being raise in that system of belief. (Rapture)
More than that I reject the dualist/pluralism needed to have seperate Jewish and Christain worlds. I cannot find this or dispensations in the bible and the attempt to divide things up is i believe self serving for religious people who do it.

Thus as far as framework goes there is only one biblical framework and that is to see everything through a Jrwish/Israeli lens which may not at first seem very helpful for those of us in "the nations"
The late Derek Prince of England USA and elder in Jerusalem wrote in his book the Last Word on the Middle East that it is like buttoning up a coat. get one button out of sequence then everything else is out of order, I feel very much this way about Israel and getting that right first.

Which finally brings me to where does USA fit.
USA currently holds the greatest Jewish and populations of other tribes who should return to the middle east.
If WW2 is anything to go by this will not happen easily or even willingly.
Thus i am confident that the destruction of USA is for the purpose of getting these precious people home and that our job more important that the preservation of our own lives or looking after our own welfare is to do this work in the terrible times now befalleing USA.
Of course this is broad statement and how God's will is outworked individually as we hear from God is part of the bigger picture, God speed

John Nelson Darby who formualted a theory of bible interpretation which clearly i do not accept despite being raise in that system of belief. (Rapture)

Darby was a latecomer to the idea. It has been traced to the early church and certainly many centuries before Darby.

But Thessalonians has the concept clearly in Scripture.

I don't think anyone has it all figured out in any detail. But it will come true as Scripture indicates in God's way(s) and time(s).

Originally posted by d60944
I don't think I said anything about the Vatican rulership at all. Why bring this and Papal Infallibility up?

If what I wrote seemed simplified to you, it is because I was simplifying it, I am not going to take many hours to write extensive details here. Why did I bring up Vatican rulership??? It is because it is significant, I expected you would understand that.

The Roman Empire split into 2 empires. The Eastern Empire became the
Russian/Greek Orthodox church, while the Western Empire was still centered in Rome.

Whatever way YOU chose to look at it, the Holy Roman Empire was in effect a continuation or follow on from the Roman Empire. I hadn't intended and will not go into HOW it evolved exactly as it would take far too long here. It seems you agree in part but are wishing to argue for the sake or argueing.

Vatican City is a landlocked state within the city of Rome, Italy. It is governed by the Bishop of Rome (called the Pope).

It is the smallest sovereign state in the world.

Caesar Constintine began the "corporate takeover" by renaming all the old Roman offices, this evolution of name changing still occurs. Name changing allows a person to hide their tracks of origin.

Roman Empire offices & their modern names:

Roman Empire (Imperium Romanum) renamed: Roman Catholic Church

Curia (legal body of Senators) slight name change: Curia (legal body of Cardinals)

Roman Emperor renamed: Roman Pope (head of all church and state affairs)

Civil government matters of state: Extra-Ordinary affairs (matters of civil-state governments)

Religious orders matters: Church "ecclesiastical" matters

Roman College of Senators renamed: College of Cardinals

Magistrate of College of Senators renamed: Dean of College of Cardinals

Departments of the Roman Senatorial Curia renamed: Congregations

Political Ambassador renamed: Pro-Nuncio (highest civil ambassador sent to other governements, ie Wash.DC, London etc)

If a government has not signed a treaty with Rome which makes the Romans the head of the foreign country as certified in the Roman Code of Canon Law. This rebel nation which has no official ties has an ambassador called an Apostolic Delegate. The United States and the United Kingdom never allowed the Vatican to serve as their legal head until President Reagan quickly signed into law on January 10, 1984. This Treaty for the very first time in U.S. history recognized full diplomatic relations between the United States and the Vatican State.

In 1534 when the United Kingdom realized that the Treaty with the Vatican City-State made them subject to all the Popes rules they voided the treaty. Formal plomatic relations between England and Vatican State were broken. Full diplomatic relations with the the Pope's Vatican State were never restored for 448 years until 1982.

Roman Senators renamed: Cardinals

Roman Governors renamed: Archbishops

Roman Senator with no territory: Bishop (Code of Canon Law 376)

(Large) Roman Province renamed: Archdiocese

(Small) Roman Territory renamed: Diocese

Imperial Chair of Jupiter where Caesar sat renamed: Throne of St. Peter

Vestal Virgins renamed: Nuns

Pontifex Maximus (high priest of College of Senators) renamed: Supreme Pontiff of College of Cardinals

Pontiff or "high priest " of a pagan religious order (Zues, Apollo, Diana, Mars, Jupiter, Baal, Dionysys, Pythia etc) same name: Pontiff

A Pontiff (Latin: "pontifex") means bridge-builder or priest between man and the gods of the underworld.

The Roman Calender and Holy Days of the gods renamed: Calendar Holidays of the Saints

Voice of the gods speaking through Caesar: Ex-Cathedra: Voice of God speaking through Pope

Meeting of the Pontiffs (high priests) of the pagan religious orders renamed: Ecumenical Council of the Bishops

Legal act of creating a god (of a living or dead human, as was done to most of the Caesars) "Apotheosis of the Gods" renamed: Canonization of the Saints

A decree of Caesar (dictator for life): Pope's infalliable Dogma

Praying to a dead human god renamed: Praying to a saint

In the US the highest law of the land is the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in the Vatican State the Constitution is called the Code of Canon Law

[edit on 9-6-2007 by golddragnet]

Originally posted by Prokurator
I've heard of great things predicted in the bible and that once they are fulfilled we will have the second coming of the Messiah. So what predictions in the bible have been fulfilled, i.e. on what page are we now and what prophesy should be fulfilled next. Does anyone know?

I would say that without a dpubt we are in the time period ten years after the 6,000 year MARK, of 1997 (4004 B.C. to 1997. A.D.) that brings in the Millinium in 2017, after the Battle of Armeggeddon in 2016.

Hence the start of Daniel's Last 7 years has NOT yet happenned. NO COVENANT has been signed, and it only happens once a near WW3 occurs, when America again attacks Iran/Syria etc...

So we're close to that war, and then look for ten nations signing a military, economic religious peace pact to end hostilities and bring a short lived peace to the MID-EAST.

To Prokurator;

Regarding 8, I don't see Americans and their allies amassing an army of 200 million. Since they fight with technology to reduce the amount of troops needed

I have never seen anyone imagine that America and her allies would ammass 200 million.

Many have guesstimated that it would be China. I've wondered if it might be India Or some combination with the -stans of Central Asia--particularly given the Jihadi's inroads there etc.

However, a trusted friend of mine asserts that there's no way LOGISTICALLY to move 200 million troops from China, India--even the -stans--to Israel.

I think he's right.

And, a convincing interpretation of the Scripture indicates that it is 200 million DEMONIC FORCES from Hell that's referred to.

But there is the business of a road being made from China to the Middle East--already made, if I understand correctly--within the last 10-15 years.

I suppose one other unlikely alternative is that massive motherships as large as cities could transport massess of troops from China etc. to the Middle East quickly.

Regardless, the Scripture about 200 million will be fulfilled literally--specifically how, remains to be seen.

I forgot that I'd made some of the above comments upthread. But I think not all so I'll leave as is. Mods are welcome to do with as they see fit.

[edit on 15/7/2007 by BO XIAN]

The Jews revolted as a result of Antiochus Epiphanies desires to Hellinize the Jews (The Maccebean revolt) and the rest is history.
The Temple was ultimately destroyed in 70AD to begin the great Jewish diaspora which ended in 1945 (The Generation which Jesus said will be the last).

I'm not saying the Temple will not be rebuilt, only that the Abomination that makes desolate has already happened!

This is an old, to me, tiresome postulation. I cannot believe it applies at all for THE END TIMES.

1. The world ruler MUST be THE WORLD RULER AT THE END TIMES period--which would mean . . . .

He causes

A) All world citizens to receive a mark without which they cannot buy or sell. Does NOT apply to the historic Antiochus.

B) The Anti-Christ's image may well be the one somehow demonically brought to life or appear to be brought to life.

C) The period of time involved is when knowledge has been dramatically increased and

D) when travel to and fro over the whole world is rapid and extensive.

E) The period of time has to be when ALL NATIONS have been brought under the Anti-Christ's rule.

F) WHEN the AntiChrist sets his image up in the rebuilt Temple's Holy of Holies, the Jews will realize he's an imposter and not their true Messiah. They will begin immediately to flee for the mountains, Petra etc. and just as immediately be massively slaughtered by the Anti-Christ's forces.

Seems like there's some other reasons but I think the above are more than sufficient.