The Declining Middle class and the Coming Civil War

So now we have the powder keg of economical problems. What , in everyone's opinnion, will be the spark that sets all this off? Can anyone come up with scenarios that would lead to a civil war? Also what would be some things to that making headlines now that would somehow play into the scenario?

This happens all over the world. The rich get richer and the middle class get royally screwed over. I dont think this would be anything to start a war over though. What would the poor fight with anyway......sticks and stones

reply to post by wardk28



I think that eventually what will wind up happening is that the grip to survive is going to become so heavy that people are going to demand change. When that change doesn't come, or at least not quick enough, that is when you will see action.

Of course, the middle class will then be labeled "terrorists" because of the tactics that they will probably have to revert to.

I definitely agree and support you fully good sir. However, my opinion is that it will never come down to "war". Mainly because the super rich control everything. When you have money you make anything happen, because everyone has a price. It is unfortunate this is the way our country is headed, but its very true. I always used to think it was just my small suburban hometown but it really is the entire country.

I am a web producer.. My skills - html, _javascript, css, php, mysql, databases, computer repair, peripherals, web design, photoshop, flash, etc etc etc.

My pay rate.. $13.37/hr :/

I'm not complaining because I love my job but honestly, this is the only web job within 100 miles from where I live that is web based. Don't you think someone with these skills should be up in the $20 range? I just think our economy is extremely abnormal and has changed very rapidly since 10 years ago.

reply to post by blowfishdl


It has been this way for along time. People always think, "Well, it's easier to make more money in a great big city and such." Uh, not really. When I was living in Houston, you wouldn't believe how many places wouldn't pay but 6, maybe 7 dollars an hour. You can't survive on that in a metropolitan area!!

They would hook people by saying, "Oh, but you'll get 50 to 60 hours every week." Pfft. You're lucky if you see 35 hours.



[edit on 2-10-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

SpeakerofTruth, excellent thread you have started off here. A couple of pieces I would like to add, if you may?

Historically, a dwindling middle class has been a good indicator of an imperial system, based on constant expansion via state resources for personal gain. Two good examples would be the Roman Empire and Nazi Germany. Because the middle class traditionally value stability and free enterprise (not exactly the same as free trade), and, in general, a republican system of government, destroying them economically now precludes the possibility of them being a problem later.

I think you raise some valid points about how there will be increasing disorder and unrest, but I suspect that will be funneled into foreign adventures, as so often is the way. It works, too, for a limited amount of time.

Thoughts/comments?

[edit on 2-10-2007 by Kaliayev]

How can the middle class rise if the illegals are allowed free-healthcare and jobs?

It's to serve the haves. Cheap labor means huge ginourmous profits. Bill Gates just "donate" away 200million, chump change for him.

Lower wages, middle-class have to bear the burden of socializing and "tolerating" the illegals in the name of PC.

I'm praying for a civil war so I can blow the rich and sheltered liberals away.

reply to post by Kaliayev


Kaliayev, if you look at some of the things our government has done over the last,oh, 20 years, I'd say that you are probably correct, at least in getting rid of those which "threaten" their authority. However, it seems to me that we as a nation are turning more into a communist state than an "imperial" one.

I have also written about what I perceive as the coming Nazification of America, but it will only happen a s a response to a strong communist-liberal mindset. You can access that thread through think link I have provided below.

coming Nazification

[edit on 2-10-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by docklands
I'm praying for a civil war so I can blow the rich and sheltered liberals away.

Hi. I usually lurk, but I had to chime in. I am a liberal. I am neither rich nor am I sheltered. I work hard for a living, drive a used car, do not live in a gated community. Pay my taxes, worked my way through college, have a decent paying job. Never had a baby out of wedlock, never filed for welfare or foodstamps. Came from a working class family.

If and when we have a civil war, the citizens in this country will need to band together against the elite. I will not care what your political ideology is.

Before you go spouting off about civil wars, you should probably recognize who the enemy is. It isn't the working people of this country who are on the opposite side of the political spectrum than you.

But hey, if you want to be enemies, that's fine by me. This little liberal is from Texas and she knows how to shoot.

reply to post by TexasT




Well, what can I say?

reply to post by TexasT


It's a bit immature to say the least for me to say such things as proclamation of war against my fellow citizens. But look very carefully at the ideological devide amongst us.

Do you know who "the enemy" really is? We have people calling our generals "traitor" by putting a full page add saying "betray us".

We have people who wants to erase the borders and let anyone who wants to stroll in here have the benefits of citizenship (beyond that) and no personal and national responsibility.

I see mexicans who are here waving their country's flag and cussing the elderly saying they own this land? I mean, talk about fascism?

How about making us pay for the drug-addicts? The self-inflicted obese people? Socialized "health-care" for the poor is communism one step removed.

If you want to pay for the poor and the sick, do it, but don't make those who are unwiling do it.

It's like me forcing you to take out your savings for your kid's college fund to pay for my favorite Christian/ liberal charities.

It may be drastic, but it's time to take a stand.

reply to post by docklands


Yes, you have full-paged ads blasting generals. You also have comedians on the radio telling soldiers that they are "phony soldiers" if they don't toe the neocon line. Freedom of speech, baby.

The people who are crossing our borders illegally are in the same mess we're in. They are not our enemy. It's the people who exploit their labor that are our enemy. (I'm not a fan of illegal immigration.) Some companies send buses across the border and bring them back, for crying out loud! Some companies encourage their illegal laborers to get their friends and family to come work for them. Go after Tyson Chicken and Perry Homes. Better yet, unionize them. That would put a stop to that.

Caring for the health of the poor would cost us a lot less in the long run than having them run to an emergency room every time they had a cold. And how much money would we save if we didn't have this phoney war on drugs? We certainly wouldn't need the number of prisons that we have.

If good, nutritious food was as inexpensive as crappy fast food, the level of obesity would go down. If Houston wasn't so polluted, maybe people would get more exercise.

I agree it's time to take a stand, but brother, you're standing against the wrong people.

ConAgra, Citibanc, Halliburton. Those are your enemies.

Best,

T

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Well, given how most Communist states have acted, historically, I see little difference between the two, but point taken. Thanks for the link by the way, I'm just looking through it right now.

If a Civil War does happen then all the politicians better commit suicide or they will be tortured to no end by those that they raped and pillaged from for mass $$$profit /wealth..

The US Government officials/top office have just lost their minds and are driving the USA deeper towards a economic Depression that will cause turmoil for many.

The value of the Dollar is fading fast, the only reason why our economy has not collapsed is because the Feds print more money and toss it into circulation and borrowing money from countries that want to "OWN" a chunk of the USA for collateral. The Rumor's are now becoming fact.

The new Media would never divulge this info as the Media is owned by the Government and you only see and hear what they want you to know.

Inflation? been to the Grocery store ? What a loaf of bread cost 4 months ago $1.87 now cost $2.88 , in a 3 week period coffee went fron 7.99 a can to 11.00 a can. Milk here is $5 a gallon/orange juice is $4.70 a gallon.
That is just a glimpse of inflation.

Another Civil War? I say yes it will happen if things dont change and keep getting worse and it will not be pretty.

Am I ready for it? No, as you can never totaly prepare yourself . You may try to get and store supplies but the actual reality when it does happen is still a shock.

Good luck to all
Live free Die free.

Gee there are so many issues here to discuss. First lets look at the economic one. Certainly our govt. is putting us deeper and deeper into dept, but what about your personal finances? I too like TexasT drive a used car. Why, because I simply refuse to have a car payment and play that depreciation game. Don't go there that you need good reliable transport. My vehicles all purchased used have given me only slightly less service than new and at a considerable less cost than monthly payments. We do not use credit cards, pay cash for everything. The interest that we save is phenominal. People do not need the latest greatest gadget or cable T.V. [for that matter T.V. at all] Cell phones or high speed internet. Homes are high but do you really need all that much space? I think that if as a populace we all cut back some a lot of the fiscal irresponsibility of the govt. would also fall. Why are so many people living so close to the edge? Yes there are some that truly have a hard time, but in respect I don,t think the majority are there because of issues out of their control. We need to learn that instant gratification is not the way to succeed. As to the immigration issue at one time they were hard working people, but not as much any more. We simply need to make them want to go back home. End any social help. Make english the national language. Punish the corporations that hire illegals making it too expensive to keep them. Stop all entitlements and make them live in the streets. We need to get involved in politics at the local level. If you don't like things run for office. Start small and work your way up. Ron Paul wasn't just given his position as a congressman. Demand fiscal responsibilty at the local level and the federal level will follow. However by doing this get ready to do without some of the nicer things you have now. Nice roads, parks, civic activities and events. We can change what is going on and the war we need to start is with ourselves. If we do not have the discipline to stay out of dept and work hard how can we expect our leaders to. We cannot continue to live the double standard that we are now doing and not expect it to implode on us. We are starting to see it now. I'm sure that I will take a lot of heat for this but it is where I stand even if alone.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Reluctant, what you posted reverts right back to what I always say, "People are constantly trying to live above and beyond their means."

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


speaker you are right. I'm not saying that the govt. isn't doing things to take advantage of us, they are. I'm saying that as a populace we need to take more responsibility for our predicament before we try to blame it all on others. When we as a people can come to grips with our own issues then we are more apt to be able to deal with those in the public sector. Right now most households are just trying to keep their heads above water from the mess that they have gotten themselves into. So because of this the powers that be can run amok and do what they like. The answers are there, it is just that the people really don't want to hear them. I know how it is, I have been there, and it is a long tough road that I hope I will never journey down again. After you dig yourself out the lessons learned really stick with you. Debt is not something you should pride yourself on and it is almost evil how the banks have manipulated people into believing that it is necessary. It is truly a shame that people don't realize that the Bible speaks more on money than any other topic. When your finances are in order and you have little or no dept then you can truly experience freedom.


respectfully

reluctantpawn

edit for content

[edit on 21-12-2007 by reluctantpawn]

reply to post by reluctantpawn



I agree. That's why I said, it goes back to what I say, "People try to live above and beyond their means." I don't make the rash assumption that the decline of the middle class rests solely on the shoulders of the government. Of the same token, I am certainly not of the naive assumption that they don't play an intricate role in it. REluctant, for the most part,I'd say we are in agreement...

Speaker- I respect the hell out of you!!!

This is a post I had in another thread that I think works well here:

That is why I get so ticked off when I read or hear about the "subprime" disaster, "subprime" is a label plain and simple it's an easy way to blame this "mess" on those dirty, bad credit, stupid, poor "subprimers". Our real estate woes are not because of the subprime market, EVERY market is experiencing these problems and why? because the cost of living has way, way outpaced the wages middle America earns.
I shop the local Walmart every now and then and I have noticed a massive increase on staples, a loaf of bread that was $1.00 last year is now $1.29 , milk $3.49 last year over $4.00 this year now .29
isnt a big deal but it is a drastic inflation percentage and when everything you buy goes up that much it is no wonder our pockets are empty and our mortgages are late.
Scary thing is most Americans do not see this because it is nickel and dimes and they don't notice and they can't understand why they are broke every month.

Thread is about hurting the pocketbooks instead of bloodshed:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The middle class is hurting, I am middle class on the verge of poverty.

But I have to ask a couple of questions, if only 2% of the population makes over $125,000 who the hell is buying up all of these $600,000++++++ homes down here in Georgia. These homes do not seem to be affected by the whole "sub prime mess" They are selling like hotcakes and the builders just keep on putting up 200+ home subdivisions, how could anyone afford that kind of mortgage making less than $125,000? Just guessing here but if someone buys a $600,000 home they will have some very hefty car payments as well (gotta have the very best right?) kids in private schools, name brand everything, where is the $$$ coming from? The mortgage alone would $4000+ a month and this is in the suburbs of Atlanta, I cant imagine places like Miami, L.A., New York, Maryland etc.

Originally posted by SEEWHATUDO
Speaker- I respect the hell out of you!!!

I appreciate that. I really do.