Giuliani attacked Ron Paul for telling the truth about why we were attacked on 9/11

Originally posted by Alien42
We were attacked because of our actions in the middle east.

What would we do, if another country did the same things in the U.S.?

Look up a word known as hypocrisy to understand the answer to that question

Giuliani set up a straw man. Ron Paul said that our policy of interventionism caused the world to hate us, and that before 9/11 we had been bombing Iraq. Rudy picked it up and went "YOU ARE BLAMING 9/11 ON BOMBING IRAQ THAT IS ABSURD."

See the problem?

Originally posted by nick7261

This is also a very clever way to subliminally add justification FOR being at war with Iraq. The clear implication is that THEY retaliated on 9/11 for the U.S. bombing THEM. Now who are "they"? If THEY are attacking US for bombing Iraq, the implication is that Iraq, or allies of Iraq attacked the U.S. on 9/11, thus justifying the U.S. being at war with Iraq.

Watch the entire discourse:
www.foxnews.com...#
(Part 6)
www.foxnews.com...

Paul was very clear, except perhaps with the exception of not using the term I throw in everywhere I can (American Imperialism), he was very clear it was our imperialism in general. The Iraq context was inflated by Rudy, and Fox News cherry picking Paul's quote portions.

Paul even mentioned US overthrowing Iran in 1953:
en.wikipedia.org...

Those other politicians who objected there are either premeditating criminals, or they're borderline mentally retarded. They know what it's about, or they're not fit for anything beyond the city council where they live.

The 'normal' people who applauded are "American Imperialism Deniers", and the intellectuals in the crowd who applauded were total hypocrites just like anyone else who knows much and support the domination and exploitation of the world by the same elites who dominate US.

[edit on 17-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

"He's got to face reality"

Rudy Giuliani said that about Ron Paul accepting the absurd claim that we were attacked for our freedom of religion etc.

Watch the "Debate Reaction" at the end thru that Fox link above.


McCain reiterates Giuliani's statements in the 2nd Reaction segment.

[edit on 17-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Do you blame America because of Pearl Harbor? I mean, 9-11 was the "new" Pearl Harbor right? America publicly supported the allies, while being "neutral". America's foreign policy directly led to the attack on Pearl Harbor. That's history.

As I said in another Paul thread, insurgents aren't fighting us in Iraq because we're keeping them over there, they're fighting us because we are there to fight.

Ron Paul's words were twisted and distorted to make him look like a soft, liberal, anti-American.

You cannot be a "conservative" and support Giuliani. Bottom line.

Originally posted by ratskywatsky
At the same time that the heroic firemen were streaming into the doomed twin towers, and those people who had evacuated them were being told to go back in by an unknown person on the PA system, Giuliani was being warned to flee because the towers were going to come down. WHO WARNED HIM?

R.

Think for a moment. I realize that the plastered event tauted at in the media is a great dramatical sequence. But, when you think about all of the footage you're exposed to, it's kind of washed out, isn't it? Something that large; i.e., the Towers, will make a very large amount of noise when collapsing. As I said, the sound engineers have done a fantastic job of re-editing (screams, OMG, and all), but the sound would have been deafening. Pre-ambled by many creaks and strains which would have also been heard. I do get angry every time I watch any of the footage that every time there's a siren equipped vehicle they use the same sample. But otherwise, it's a great "touch-up"

I guess I'm saying, if you weren't being told in a blaring way as to the otherwise, there would have been audible clues of the collapse of such a massive structure.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
The hatred of the U.S. that fueled the hijackers was .....

..... radical Islam. Period. They want the entire world to be radical Islam living under shira rule. UBL is (or was) a meglomaniac who wants world domination.

The 'blame America first' crowd doesn't seem to understand the simple truth of that.

That’s the problem. No one is saying 'blame America' first. No one is saying that America Deserved the attacks. What Paul and others are saying is that to think that our Actions, namely our Foreign Policy of intervention and imperialism, will leave the rest of the world smiling and thanking us - is a very naive notion.
Every time we bomb and force our weight around in the world we entice a very elicit response from various groups. Which can be anywhere on the continuum of negative to positive. The current Iraq war is a prime example of our actions eliciting an extremely negative response. One could argue that we are even worst off (in terms of extremism) than we were before the war...Is it absurd to acknowledge that?

Paul and others are just trying to make everyone aware of this huge oversight. We think that our actions cause no negative backlash, and this is whats Absurd (thank you Guliani). If people cannot realize this fact then we are doomed as a nation to the role of snowballing military correctionist instead of the role as a world leader of democracy.

Its absolutely absurd that Fox would suggest a candidate not be allowed to participate in future events. They say he doesn't represent true conservative values. Just because he doesn't believe in the shoot first ask questions later policy? Just because one person doesn't beleive in fighting pre-emptive wars he shouldn't be silenced. Thats why its called a debate. Not everyone will have the same point of view. The powers that be don't want Paul's message to be heard from the Republican camp. What a failure of a political party the Republicans are if they all have to think the same or your silenced. The war isn't working find another way to protect our country.

Ron Paul on CNN talking about the debate

Why Hasn’t Rudy Giuliani Read the 9-11 Commission Report?
When Congressman Ron Paul, who has long served on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, explained how 50 years of American interventionism in the Middle East has helped compromise our national security, Giuliani interrupted saying he had "never heard anything so absurd." This statement is particularly troubling coming from the former mayor who tries to cast himself as a security expert, since Dr. Paul's point comes directly from the bi-partisan 9-11 Commission Report.

"Rudy Giuliani has tip-toed around the issues of abortion, guns and marriage. The only issue he has left is security, and he doesn't even get that right," said campaign chairman Kent Snyder. "It is clear from his interruption that former Mayor Giuliani has not read the 9-11 Commission Report and has no clue on how to keep America safe."

Post GOP Debate coverage "Fox News Style"


Hannity: "Live from the Spin Room"

EDIT:
Colmes later interviews Paul:


The original Debate:


[edit on 17-5-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

I really wish they would have allowed everyone up there the 30 seconds they wanted to attempt to rebut Ron Paul!

If you could see the campaign money for the canadates IIB you might fall out of your chair.

www.opensecrets.org...

Only seven canadates are not in debt. And eleven are in debt. Including some of the big wigs. I don't want to vote for a greedy money mongrel. I want to vote for someone who knows how to manage their money. If there was new rule in effect that the canadates has to be debt free when they declare in order to run for president.

Like it or not Dr. Ron Paul is right. The Iraq war was started on false pretenses. And now we're stuck over there.

So please choose carefully before you vote. Study each canadate and do the right thing. Vote for a good and just canadate that will work for America and her people and not his wallet.

I'm choosing Dr. Ron Paul.





[edit on 5/17/2007 by Leyla]

Originally posted by Leyla
If you could see the campaign money for the canadates IIB you might fall out of your chair.

That's a great point. I just heard NY Mayor Michael Bloomberg is using $1 Billion of his own money toward his campaign!

When money like that is being spent, do you (figuratively) really think "they" will let a guy like Ron Paul even have a chance at smelling the presidential candidacy? Why do you think the $media$ is smearing him already?

Originally posted by mecheng

Originally posted by Leyla
If you could see the campaign money for the canadates IIB you might fall out of your chair.

That's a great point. I just heard NY Mayor Michael Bloomberg is using $1 Billion of his own money toward his campaign!

When money like that is being spent, do you (figuratively) really think "they" will let a guy like Ron Paul even have a chance at smelling the presidential candidacy? Why do you think the $media$ is smearing him already?

A billion??!! Well poo on him I'm not voting for him. I don't care how much money he throws around.

Who is they? They does not work for us. They work for themselves. And I can't stand them.

The media dosn't work for us they work for the high class people who has tons of money to throw around. Its sickening. I believe it is up to the Americans on who they want to vote for not the person who has lots of money.

I believe deep in my heart Dr. Ron Paul will do a great job for America if he's elected President.

Check out Ron Pauls site and see for yourself. Oh and he's a doctor!!

[edit on 5/17/2007 by Leyla]

Thank you so much Ignoranceisntbliss

That CNN interview with Wolfe is excellent and points out exactly why Guliani has no clue on foreign policy. Guliani loves to throw around his involvement of 9/11 and yet ignores the 9/11 report...how coincidental. Dr. Paul explains his position very well and I find it hard that anyone would even question the obvious logic of it.

Well after hearing this

I wouldn't vote for Paul if he was the only one on the ballot.

I've now solid in my vote for Rudy.

RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!
RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!
RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!
RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!
RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!
RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!
RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!
RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!
RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!
RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!

Originally posted by Royal76
Well after hearing this

I wouldn't vote for Paul if he was the only one on the ballot.

I've now solid in my vote for Rudy.

(Stupid repetition of "RUDY!!!")

Uh...why?

[edit on 17-5-2007 by Johnmike]

Originally posted by Royal76
Well after hearing this

I wouldn't vote for Paul if he was the only one on the ballot.

I've now solid in my vote for Rudy.

RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!RUDY!!!

Hey nice spam.

So did you actually read and watch everything said in this thread, or was that your knee-jerk reaction to the first post?

Would you actually care to discuss your view of how Rudy was right, and Ron was wrong, or are you just here to spam?

go here to sign the petition. looks like fox and others are trying to ban ron from the debates and the party alltogether.



www.petitiononline.com...

To: Republican National Committe

It is a serious assault on Free Speech when the RNC and other GOP Factions seek to bar the speech of an official candidate for President in the race for the Republican nomination. Ron Paul is under attack by FOX News and various analysts who actually believe he should be removed from debates and the party itself.

The Republican Party and the RNC are afraid that a real candidate would jeopardize their hijacking of conservative issues. It is clear that a real candidate like Ron Paul would reinstate adherence to the Constitutional intent of government-- a far cry from the current direction the party is being led in.

BUT REGARDLESS of whether you love or hate Ron Paul or the Republican Party, one must stand up for and defend the right to Free Speech. Ron Paul is the FRONT RUNNER in this race-- he won every major poll regarding the first Presidential debate and won the majority of polls pertaining to the second debate aired by Fox News. He came in second place in the FOX poll-- despite ongoing on-air bashing and calls for his removal from the race and the party itself during the poll.

The Republican primary is the tool the people use to decide which candidate will prevail-- it is not the duty of talking heads and pundits to bully and cull candidates who should be decided by VOTERS.

The Republican Party leadership are now officially put on notice that the whole country and world are witnesses to their concerted effort to rig the debate process. It’s not a secret that party operatives are attempting to cheat the debate process and block Ron Paul from appearing in further debates.

The call to ban Ron Paul from further debates is a clear attempt to block the First Amendment and will be seen by the public for what it is -- cheating.

William F. Buckley recently stated that the Republican Party’s very existence is in danger. This new neo-con attack on our electoral process is treasonous and if not reversed, will cause a further mass exodus from the party.
People will not tolerate a Republican party that is anti-American, anti-Free Speech and who continue to undermine the electoral process laid out by the founding fathers and the Constitution.

BE IT DECLARED, that the undersigned request the Republican National Committee to support fair election procedures, as well as the views and desires of its members and American citizens, by allowing Congressman Ron Paul full participation in all future debates and election events as a Republican National Committee candidate.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned