Shocking - Can this be true? Aeroplanes In Ancient India?

I have seen a wealth of information on the net but have trouble wading through BS to get to the true historical facts.

You can order a copy of Rigveda from a lot of sources available on the net or you can go through some genuine knowledgeable websites for reading it.

www.sacred-texts.com/hin/index.htm

www.hinduwebsite.com/sacred.hinduism/vimana/ancientvimanas.asp

I am going to order a copy of the book you recommended on Page 1 written by the American author. I think it will be a good summary of facts. Aryan, you also listed some other good resources. It look like you have done some sifting through the pile of information on the subject. It would be interesting to understand different interpretations of the original sanskrit documents as things can be "lost in translation".

For some speculation on the sort of thing that MIGHT have happened or MIGHT NOT HAVE happened that makes for interesting reading, how about:

An outline of subsequent legends, events, and/or claims possibly relevant to the ultimate destiny of a prehistoric civilization based on the southeast asian peninsula as described here, from 22,097 BC to the present day (the early 21st century AD) by J.R. Mooneyham
www.jmooneyham.com...

The link which I have mentioned in my earlier posts gives a detailed information on almost all the questions asked. I think when read along with the original transcript of rigveda,it can add much to our knowledge.


www.hinduwebsite.com/sacred.hinduism/vimana/ancientvimanas.asp

[edit on 4-6-2007 by AryanWatch]

Nice posts aryanwatch.

Good research.

Here, for what it's worth, is my take on the situation.

While there have been innumerable religious and non-religious texts over the millennia which have described flying machines, that information is of no practical value for us at our present stage of development.

Much of what von Daniken wrote in his books still remains unexplained.

The problem, as I see it, is to turn it all into some sort of religion, as von Daniken did (in his case that of alien intervention). It is one thing to place one's own interpretation upon a text (often translated from a dead language, and thus open to any number of interpretations) and quite another to bend or fabricate evidence to support your theory. Von Daniken's real downfall was that he tried to bend virtually everything into his theory in an attempt to have it accepted.

The major problem, for us, is that of scientific arrogance. A few years ago, as I recall, a Lockheed engineer, during a visit to New Zealand stated that we can build anything, no matter how fantastic, given the appropriate funding. Now that's arrogant! Hey, go tell it to the folks who tried to turn the Nimrod into an AWACs!

The fact that we should all consider is that information throughout history is lost and rediscovered. Consider the information and data lost to civilization with the destruction of the Library of Alexandria, an event known to us as history. What we do not know, and are never likely to know, is how much of that knowledge we have re-discovered in our modern era. How many times has that happened throughout history and pre-history - who knows! Therefore, I am not shocked by any theory that might indicate that the ancient Indians had flying machines, or anyone else for that matter. Indeed, it is easy to make a case for cyclic 'light' and 'dark' ages.

To be shocked by such a suggestion, is an indication of one's own scientific arrogance - like, how could they have had such knowledge, when we have only just gained it? This assumes that our state of scientific knowledge is supreme and paramount. By the same token, I think everyone here would agree that scientifically we collectively learn something new every day!

Remember that an otherwise brilliant British scientist once (in the relatively recent past) said a train could not travel at a greater speed than 11 miles per hour (can't remember the exact speed, but something like that), otherwise the air would be sucked from the train and the occupants would suffocate.

The important thing to remember from these ancient documentary interpretations is that we gain absolutely nothing from them unless we can understand exactly what is being described and the method of propulsion (which we clearly cannot). So whether we just don’t understand, or if the text is fantasy, or even as von Daniken would have it - a misunderstood description of an alien craft, the fact remains that such interpretation is of virtually no value to us as a scientific community.

I guess I'm saying - If the children's story about Rip van Winkle was based on truth, so what, it doesn't advance our knowledge about anything at all, really.

As an aside, I have often pondered the knowledge and breadth of thought of Da Vinci. Have you ever wondered how one person, even as brilliant as Leonardo, could possibly have been so far in advance of contemporary knowledge on soooooooo many subjects? Working on the basis that attempting to destroy something is seldom 100% effective, my personal little theory is perhaps the Library of Alexandria wasn't quite as destroyed as history thinks. But I'm not going to start a thread on the subject, simply because I have no evidence and it really doesn't matter anyway!

Especially for esecallum…. I recommend that you actually read up on the Manhattan project and discover that it was scientists from all over the world (in reality American scientists - and I make a distinction between scientists, administrators and engineers - were very much in the minority) gathered together by the Americans and using American money in a place of safety and distance from the battlefields of WWII, to build the first nuclear weapon. You didn't invent nuclear energy, you simply found a way to generate electricity from it (which may turn out to be the least efficient way to liberate the power of the nuclear bond - who knows!) - nuclear energy has been around for … well let's see - er, since at least the beginning of the universe, I'd say. Here's a question for you… Who first split the atom, and first achieved a sustained reaction, and why was he not allowed to work at Los Alamos?

Also, just for your information, although there certainly is poverty in India, as there is in the USA, the Indians are now considered well ahead of the US in IT. India, as other countries, is well endowed with brilliant scientists and engineers - what many of them lack is, of course, the money to do the research - check out for yourself how many brilliant scientists are attracted, recruited (or poached) from other countries to do research work in the USA, simply because America has the money to do it. This does not imply any superiority for America or Americans as far as I can see.

If you were implying that the India of 4000 years ago must have been even more impoverished that today, that is ridiculous - just compare ancient Rome with present day Italy. Growth and prosperity (either economically or intellectually are not necessarily linear - even our short written history proves that).

America is only a technological powerhouse at the moment because America has the money to fund the research. With the way the US economy is going, one might well wonder just how long that situation is going to exist.

Just like the Greek, Roman, Persian and British empires before it, the US empire is based on money, and like all other empires before it, the US empire will not last forever.

The Winged Wombat


[edit on 9/6/07 by The Winged Wombat]

TWW - I see the point in your note. The only disagreement I have is that you have spoken about a relatively modern author and my OP talks about a source which is thousands of years old. Secondly,this source is not in some uninterpretable language but is in Sanskrit which is stillspoken in India. Please go through some of my previous posts for more clarity.

Hi, AryanWatch!!

Someone may have already posted this, but there are hieroglyph, or temple carvings that clearly show modern space vehicles in a temple dating 3,000 years ago,

These images were found on the ceiling beams of a 3000-year old New Kingdom Temple, located several hundred miles south of Cairo and the Giza Plateau, at Abydos.

Here is a link to the above source, and images -- LINK.

Here is the WEBSITE on which I found these images.

By now it should be clear that we need to take ET civilizations into account when studying ancient texts. They've obviously been visiting this planet for a long, long time. And in times where terms like "extraterrestrial" and "ufos" hadn't been invented, I think "gods" and "clouds of light" would be apt alternatives...

Now that we are coming into a better understanding of these things, it seems that our early gods may have simply been physical and non-physical, advanced races of beings that have taken an open and overt role on our evolution.

Apart from these early visitations, I hold firm to the overarching view that there is one benevolent creator of all that is, and that human beings - as well as every other physical and non-physical race, and all that is - are a part of that one creator. There is no difference between the parts and the creator; they are all one infinite being.

Hey! So what's the big deal? India was a super power then and is on the way to becoming a super again.

Having said that, I would like to put in my two cents...

For those who haven’t heard of the greatest Indian epic, the Mahabharata, here’s a small primer. This is an epic written in Sanskrit more than 2000 years ago and describes the technology of those bygone eras.

At the time of the complete literal English translation, between the years 1886-1890, no aircraft ever flew and missiles were unheard of.

This is an extract of the text from Volume III, Vana Parva, Section XLII (42), with images of what the author could have been possibly trying to describe.


Vaicampayana said: After the Lokopalas had gone away,
Arjuna - that slayer of all foes - began to think,
O monarch, of the car of Indra!
And as Gudakeça gifted with great intelligence was thinking of it,
the car endued with great effulgence and guided by Matali,
came dividing the clouds and illuminating the firmament
and filling the entire welkin with its rattle
deep as the roar of mighty masses of clouds.


Swords, and miscrias of terrible forms,
and maces of frightful description,
and winged darts of celestial splendor.


and lightnings of the brightest effulgence,
and thunderbolts

Was all this imagination? Is it possible for anyone to write about and describe something he had never seen before and was non-existent at that time? Was it true then? If so, it changes ancient history as we know it!!.

Cheers!

Pics Courtesy: Holger Isenberg

How was it possible for Arthur C Clarke to write about the Rama object unless he'd actually seen it?

Same difference

Originally posted by AryanWatch
TWW - I see the point in your note. The only disagreement I have is that you have spoken about a relatively modern author and my OP talks about a source which is thousands of years old. Secondly,this source is not in some uninterpretable language but is in Sanskrit which is stillspoken in India. Please go through some of my previous posts for more clarity.

AryanWatch,

I think you may have misunderstood my point about ancient texts. It was....


Don't turn it into some kind of religion by bending slim corroborating evidence into some kind of misguided proof (as Von Daniken and others have in the past). My point about Von Daniken is that (at the very least) he interpreted what he found in a specific way, so that it fitted and (in his mind) verified his theory, while other, quite different interpretations could be made. So it is the interpretation, rather than the translation, that could be suspect. Translation only complicates the matter further. I rather think that archaeologists do this all the time, and that it is only the fact that they are willing to change the whole theory (reluctantly) when something blatantly contradicts it, that differentiates them from the Von Danikens of the world.

I would be quite surprised if Sanskrit of the era is the same as current Sanskrit - all languages evolve and change in content and context, even individual words gain new meanings, and it happens surprisingly quickly.

The Winged Wombat

[edit on 4/7/07 by The Winged Wombat]

Originally posted by esecallum

you are being delusinal.

WE americans are the leader in technological advance...
we invented th 1st bulb...
in only 300 years we have transformed an empty continent to a super power without equal...
we are the technonogical masters...

i understand people in india dont even have clean water to drink....
have no food to eat.
live in villiages and mudhuts with cows grazing outside.
no scientits or inventors
no electricity.
how can you make planes without clean water or electricity without scientists...industry and understanding of complex fhysics?
these documents are fake...fake...FAKE!

do you hear that?

Lol! Where is this guy from? Pluto probably! He's grounded in the 18th century. His ignorance knows no bounds!

If I haven't read the best comedy, this is it! He seems to me a clown who is also intellectually bankrupt.

Come out of the woodwork man and brush up your general knowledge which at present is so far gone, it's not even funny!

Good discussion AryanWatch! Keep it up. You could do without guys like this, but then it takes all types to make this world.

Cheers!

[edit on 4-7-2007 by mikesingh]

India might have no water and everyone living in mud huts ...... but they also have nuclear missiles. How clever is that?

Not only does India have Nuclear Power,it is also the largest and most balanced democracy that any nation can be proud of. India also has the record of not attacking any of it's neighbours or any other country in last 10000 years. Even I used to think that it is a poor non descript country somewhere in the map but you should look at some of the stats to believe. India is also the land of sprituality. It gave birth to religions like Buddhism,Jainism,Sikhism and Hinduism. It is the country of more than a billion people where more than 80% are hindus yet it's Prime Minister is a Sikh,President is a Muslim and leader of the ruling party is a Christian. Amazing. I think many countries in the world should learn from them. Talk about harmony my friend. I will not be surprised in the least if one day I discover that it was India indeed where we had the first flying machines.

Originally posted by esecallum

thats impossible.
you are being delusinal.
america invented nuclear energy.called manhatten project.
america invented the first planes
oliver and wilber wright...
WE americans are the leader in technological advance...
we invented th 1st bulb...
in only 300 years we have transformed an empty continent to a super power without equal...
we are the technonogical masters...
i understand people in india dont even have clean water to drink....
have no food to eat.
live in villiages and mudhuts with cows grazing outside.
no scientits or inventors
no electricity.
how can you make planes without clean water or electricity without scientists...industry and understanding of complex fhysics?
these documents are fake...fake...FAKE!
ANTI AMERICAN COMMINISTS PLANTED THEM
do you hear that?
[edit on 23-5-2007 by esecallum]

OMG, OMG, OMG, HAHAHAHAHA
Man, it is so funny to talk to somebody who is not from this planet
Please dude, keep talking, I wanna hear more!!!

And yo people from planet earth, great topic!

It is hard for people to accept such a fantastic information..

About Daniken, I know that he maybe expressed himself too much to still he contributed a lot to this type of subject.. he also connected a lot of things and gave them meaning. Hell, I would also be confused and going krazy after a while if I was him. It must have been shocking..

Also, there are theories that Vimanas were powered or something by mantras..

btw, here are some links to the ... something ... physical explanations of anti gravity ... quantum pysics ... levitation and other stuff. I dont know, I did not read the whole thing but those who did liked it a lot so if you like physics enjoy. I just wanna fly those things!

www.geocities.com...
www.americanantigravity.com...

en.wikibooks.org...
en.wikibooks.org...

Petar Bosnic is the man!
He is from Bosnia, the country with no electricity, fresh water, industry, scientists, technology...

Originally posted by The Winged Wombat
I would be quite surprised if Sanskrit of the era is the same as current Sanskrit - all languages evolve and change in content and context, even individual words gain new meanings, and it happens surprisingly quickly.

Sanskrit isn't really spoken in India anymore. It's more read and translated by scholars. Think of it as the Latin of the East, but much older. Sanskrit did evolve, but it evolved into Punjab, Urdu, Hindi and Hindustani. Similar to the way that Latin evolved into French, Romanian, Italian, Spanish and Portuguese.

I've always been fascinated with ancient Indian culture (but these days who isn't). One of the things I find interesting is their knowledge of astronomy, and how it was far beyond what anyone else of the time.

For example, they were aware that the sun was a star, that gravity held the planets in orbit around the sun, and that it is likely that there were other planets orbiting other stars.

They also had a calendar that was accurate in predicting solar eclipses even t this day.

I do believe that they acquired much of this knowledge from interactions with ETs who they believed to be gods. I wouldn't be surprised if these gods had given them, or at least showed them technology that was far beyond anything common in the era.

The literature is also extremely interesting, in particular the Mahabharata. The Mahabharata can be read as a sci-fi epic if interpreted in a certain way. One of my favorite parts involves Arjuna, son of Indra and one of the 5 brothers Pandava detailing his journeys with his father in his sky palace visiting other worlds circling other suns.

One of my favorite parts involves Arjuna, son of Indra and one of the 5 brothers Pandava detailing his journeys with his father in his sky palace visiting other worlds circling other suns.

RB - Excellent point. It will really be great if you can bring in a citation to this. I mean from an external source or from Mahabharata itself. Even I am truly amazed after I read a lot of Sanskrit(translated off course) texts. They really seem to have an understanding of science. And yes,I checked out about their calendar and i was surprised to find that the same calendar which was used thousands of years back is used even today by the Hindus,Buddhists,Sikhs,Jains etc.

I'll list the citation from my library when I get a chance. In the mean time, there is also mention of it in the movie adaptation by Peter Brook (lord of the flies)
www.imdb.com...

It's an interesting watch at least, but it's about 4 or 5 hours long. The traveling among the stars is mentioned in it, and that's why I took the time to read the translation that I have.

It seems a possibility that we have failed to doa detailed research into what is written in some of our ancient texts.