Shocking - Can this be true? Aeroplanes In Ancient India?

'Joke' doesn't really cover it. I would say a more accurate appraisal would be 'a caustic comment that reflects my overall disdain for this particular theory'.

Yes, I think that does it.

'Joke' doesn't really cover it. I would say a more accurate appraisal would be 'a caustic comment that reflects my overall disdain for this particular theory'.

Then don't post. Leave commenting to those who are for or against a particular theory and let them give reasons for sake of discussion. Suggesting one of these flew into the Pentagon is ignorant. I for one find it interesting. There are many theories reguarding ancients possesing advanced technology and some theorize that UFO's originate from Earth.
Proof of such technology would be groundbreaking.

The name of the forum is Aircraft Projects.

IMO - it doesn't matter if the topic of discussion is or isn't an actual aircraft (Aurora)... it could well be a 'suspected' aircraft.

Secondly, it does not mean that the Da Vinci constructs do not belong here. They were an aircraft project (ornithopters).

And, on a final note... if there were to be an educated discussion about the clues found in ancient story telling, I can't see why any A/C buff wouldn't be at least a bit interested.

I realise that this is a Science Forum and, because of that, I believe a part of the topic should be why it does or doesn't belong here.

But... let's be civil and not razz anyone immediately.

Fair enough?

U2U's are welcomed.

[edit on 15/5/07 by masqua]

Originally posted by waynos
'Joke' doesn't really cover it. I would say a more accurate appraisal would be 'a caustic comment that reflects my overall disdain for this particular theory'.

Yes, I think that does it.

So Waynos, what is your particular theory on why these things were documented so long ago? Not only that, these stories were being discussed in times hundreds of years before DiVinci.

My theory isn't so much that they flew these vehicles, but observed them, their flights, their insides, and watched them in battle. I believe they made educated guesses as to what they were seeing, but may have really had to way to reproduce them. I can't make a better judgement until I read the entire religious collection of books.

Originally posted by kilcoo316
If they had all this brilliant technology, why did they stop using it and allow the knowledge to all but disappear?

Isn't that exactly what happened after the fall of The Roman Empire throughout the part of history known as The Dark Ages? Concepts, knowledge, and yes, technology, however rudimentary by today's standards, were indeed lost. Hence the Renaissance [rebirth].

Hope some of this info helps.

Interesting article here though it is fairly parochial, not sure if i'd take it as gospel.

article here

The Rig Veda, the oldest document of the human race includes references to the following modes of transportation: Jalayan - a vehicle designed to operate in air and water (Rig Veda 6.58.3); Kaara- Kaara- Kaara- a vehicle that operates on ground and in water. (Rig Veda 9.14.1); Tritala- Tritala- Tritala- a vehicle consisting of three stories. (Rig Veda 3.14.1); Trichakra Ratha - Trichakra Ratha - Trichakra Ratha - a three-wheeled vehicle designed to operate in the air. (Rig Veda 4.36.1); Vaayu Ratha- Vaayu Ratha- Vaayu Ratha- a gas or wind-powered chariot. (Rig Veda 5.41.6); Vidyut Ratha- Vidyut Ratha- Vidyut Ratha- a vehicle that operates on power. (Rig Veda 3.14.1).

Bharadwaja states that there are thirty-two secrets of the science of aeronautics. Of these some are astonishing and some indicate an advance even beyond our own times. For instance the secret of "para shabda graaha", i.e. a cabin for listening to conversation in another plane, has been explained by elaborately describing an electrically worked sound-receiver that did the trick. Manufacture of different types of instruments and putting them together to form an aircraft are also described.

It appears that aerial warfare was also not unknown, for the treatise gives the technique of "shatru vimana kampana kriya" and "shatru vimana nashana kriya" i.e. shaking and destroying enemy aircraft, as well as photographing enemy planes, rendering their occupants unconscious and making one`s own plane invisible.

Evidence of existence of aircrafts are also found in the Arthasastra of Kautilya (c. 3rd century B.C.). Kautilya mentions amongst various tradesmen and technocrats the Saubhikas as `pilots conducting vehicles in the sky`. Saubha was the name of the aerial flying city of King Harishchandra and the form `Saubika` means `one who flies or knows the art of flying an aerial city`.

Found this part interesting on wikipedia, arent nuclear weapons supposedly mentioned in the Mahabharata
as well as aircraft.

J. Robert Oppenheimer, American physicist and director of the Manhattan Project, learned Sanskrit in 1933 and read the Bhagavad Gita in the original, citing it later as one of the most influential books to shape his philosophy of life. Upon witnessing the world's first nuclear test in 1945, allegedly quoted "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds" based on verse 32 from Chapter 11 of the Bhagavad Gita

Heres some more links you might find interesting though i dont vouch for their authenticity it is good reading.

hinduwisdom

www.world-mysteries.com third page down.


A really detailed analysis here by Aeronautical Society of India on behalf of Aerospace Information Panel of Aeronautics Research and Development Board.

www.bibliotecapleyades

Interesting stuff, i'll continue reading up on it, i seem to remember that a Babylonian text also mentions aircraft, i'll see what i can find on that.

It is amazing whats written in those books.

sorry for the long delay in replying, internet problems that are not entirely cured are to blame. Anyway;

Then don't post.

Yes I will, if I want to. You have obviously taken my light hearted way of recording my disbelief to heart, lighten up fella.

Leave commenting to those who are for or against a particular theory

But I am against it, and that was my comment. Its not my fault you didn't like it much.

Suggesting one of these flew into the Pentagon is ignorant.

No it isn't, its a recognition of the fact that I give no more credence to this theory than I do to those who think something other than a 757 struck that building. As I said before it was light hearted.

Proof of such technology would be groundbreaking.

Yes, it certainly would, I agree with that. However, there isn't any.

So Waynos, what is your particular theory on why these things were documented so long ago?

Thanks for the direct question Infinite8, I have read of these theories for many many years and when I look at them in the wider context of historical records in general I can't see any reason to give them any more credence than the ones that record dragons with human heads kept as pets etc that you will find in many cultures over many centuries. Da Vinci wrote of the mechanics of flying and included detailed schematicsd as to how this might be achieved, despite the earlier assertion from another member that he didn't, but none of these machines were built or flown, so far as we can be cerrtain.

Likewise, talk of these vehicles being powered by certain liquids etc sounds tempting, and in our modern perspective we may be tempted to think of these descriptions in terms of aviation fuel, something we are familiar with, but there is no hard science that can prove their formula's actually worked. It is no more proveable than alchemy, and alchemy is recorded in great and specific detail in many volumes.

I believe that what we really have are theories and legends intertwined to give a virtual 'history' of aviation that never actually happened.

There are many historical theories that fascinate me, one is that the Sphinx was created 10,000 years ago by a long lost civilisation and was then rediscovered by the Egyptians. I have seen a lot of compelling evidence for this theory and it fires my imagination that it may be true, however in this case nothing I have read, fascinating though it was to read, comes across as anything other than wishful thinking and extrapolation, far from being actual evidence.

There is a very interesting book on this topic:
Ancient Indian Aircraft Technology by D. Hatcher Childress from The Anti-Gravity Handbook available from:

Adventures Unlimited Press,

Post Office Box 22,

Stelle, IL,

USA 60919-9989

(815) 253-6390,

And for a change,this book doesn't come from the so-called proponents of this theory and this is written by an American Author. Excerpts for the benefit of all below:

Many researchers into the UFO enigma tend to overlook a very important fact. While it assumed that most flying saucers are of alien, or perhaps Governmental Military origin, another possible origin of UFOs is ancient India and Atlantis.

What we know about ancient Indian flying vehicles comes from ancient Indian sources; written texts that have come down to us through the centuries.

There is no doubt that most of these texts are authentic; many are the well known ancient Indian Epics themselves, and there are literally hundreds of them. Most of them have not even been translated into English yet from the old Sanskrit.

The Indian Emperor Ashoka started a "Secret Society of the Nine Unknown Men": great Indian scientists who were supposed to catalogue the many sciences. Ashoka kept their work secret because he was afraid that the advanced science catalogued by these men, culled from ancient Indian sources, would be used for the evil purpose of war, which Ashoka was strongly against, having been converted to Buddhism after defeating a rival army in a bloody battle.

The "Nine Unknown Men" wrote a total of nine books, presumably one each. Book number was "The Secrets of Gravitation!" This book, known to historians, but not actually seen by them, dealt chiefly with "gravity control." It is presumably still around somewhere, kept in a secret library in India, Tibet or elsewhere (perhaps even in North America somewhere).

One can certainly undertand Ashoka's reasoning for wanting to keep such knowledge a secret, assuming it exists. Ashoka was also aware devastating wars using such advanced vehicles and other "futuristic weapons" that had destroyed the ancient Indian "Rama Empire" several thousand years before.

Only a few years ago, the Chinese discovered some Sanskrit documents in Lhasa, Tibet and sent them to the University of Chandrigarh to be translated. Dr. Ruth Reyna of the University said recently that the documents contain directions for building interstellar spaceships!

Their method of propulsion, she said, was "anti-gravitational" and was based upon a system analogous to that of "laghima," the unknown power of the ego existing in man's physiological makeup, "a centrifugal force strong enough to counteract all gravitational pull." According to Hindu Yogis, it is this "laghima" which enables a person to levitate.

Dr. Reyna said that on board these machines, which were called "Astras" by the text, the ancient Indians could have sent a detachment of men onto any planet, according to the document, which is thought to be thousands of years old. The manuscripts were also said to reveal the secret of "antima"; "the cap of invisibility" and "garima"; "how to become as heavy as a mountain of lead."

Naturally, Indian scientists did not take the texts very seriously, but then became more positive about the value of them when the Chinese announced that they were including certain parts of the data for study in their space program! This was one of the first instances of a government admitting to be researching anti-gravity.

The manuscripts did not say definitely that interplanetary travel was ever made but did mention, of all things, a planned trip to the Moon, though it is not clear whether this trip was actually carried out. However, one of the great Indian epics, the Ramayana, does have a highly detailed story in it of a trip to the moon in a Vimana (or "Astra"), and in fact details a battle on the moon with an "Asvin" (or Atlantean" airship.

Any Comments?

This is but a small bit of recent evidence of anti-gravity and aerospace technology used by Indians. To really understand the technology, we must go much further back in time.
The so-called "Rama Empire" of Northern India and Pakistan developed at least fifteen thousand years ago on the Indian sub-continent and was a nation of many large, sophisticated cities, many of which are still to be found in the deserts of Pakistan, northern, and western India.
Rama existed, apparently, parallel to the Atlantean civilization in the mid-Atlantic Ocean, and was ruled by "enlightened Priest-Kings" who governed the cities, The seven greatest capital cities of Rama were known in classical Hindu texts as "The Seven Rishi Cities."
According to ancient Indian texts, the people had flying machines which were called "Vimanas." The ancient Indian epic describes a Vimana as a double-deck, circular aircraft with portholes and a dome, much as we would imagine a flying saucer.
It flew with the "speed of the wind" and gave forth a "melodious sound." There were at least four different types of Vimanas; some saucer shaped, others like long cylinders ("cigarshaped airships").
The ancient Indian texts on Vimanas are so numerous, it would take volumes to relate what they had to say. The ancient Indians, who manufactured these ships themselves, wrote entire flight manuals on the control of the various types of Vimanas, many of which are still in existence, and some have even been translated into English.
The Samara Sutradhara is a scientific treatise dealing with every possible angle of air travel in a Vimana. There are 230 stanzas dealing with the construction, take-off, cruising for thousand of miles, normal and forced landings, and even possible collisions with birds.
In 1875, the Vaimanika Sastra, a fourth century B.C. text written by Bharadvajy the Wise, using even older texts as his source, was rediscovered in a temple in India. It dealt with the operation of Vimanas and included information on the steering, precautions for long flights, protection of the airships from storms and lightening and how to switch the drive to "solar energy" from a free energy source which sounds like "anti-gravity."
The Vaimanika Sastra (or Vymaanika-Shaastra) has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas.There seems to be no doubt that Vimanas were powered by some sort of "anti-gravity." Vimanas took off vertically, and were capable of hovering in the sky, like a modern helicopter or dirigible.

Rig veda and its contents are highly subjective in reasoning and explanations

I am also from India and the brahminical aryans alone hold in highesteem and not others

So guys we can take all of this with a pinch of salt

The descriptions are fabulous and they really fire the imagination, but why do people cite it as evidence? It is nothing of the sort.

Don't forget some people think the Bible is an accurate historical record rather than the loose collection of (inspiring) stories it really is. These are no different IMO.

I am also from India and the brahminical aryans alone hold in highesteem and not others

Hey man...good to have you here...If what you are saying is true then the propaganda that Vedas are Indian Texts is false? Can you help explain some of the things written here. Or are you just like one of anti-America crazies trying to rubbish America and Americans in all possible forums like this.

And please let me know if what you are saying is correct.If yes,what is the source of your information.Care to respond?

Thanks for your opinion Waynos. I respect other viewpoints as they only make us wiser.

Aryan I think the large collections of these documents are incredible. I think the detailed descriptions, stories, and multiple resources begs for more research and an effort to recreate these machines. Waynos is correct though as well. Outside of these texts, we do not have any definitive hard evidence. That doesn't mean that these were not around, but Waynos has equal right to believe that they were not. I for one am of the belief that there was something, I just don't know who it belonged to.

I have not done as much research as you Aryan, and I love these quotes you continue to pull from some of the manuscripts. I think I have found a new subject that I want to pour a lot more time into. The fact that there are documents 1000s of years old talking in detail of flying machines is fascinating in itself. Even if this truly never happened, it shows a powerful scientific fascination by numerous authors and scientists of multiple time periods in different areas of the country all converging on flying machines. Its amazing to me.

Im really enjoying this post so far.

Thanks

I have always been fascinated by probabilities like these and even though I'am totally inclined to believe what Waynos says or my friends like him say,something in me keeps me interested. I totally respect the way Waynos expresses his disagreement but at the same time I do not believe in calling all this an utter nonsense. What if one day we realize that we are just players in larger scheme of things? What if we feel humbled by discoveries far beyond our imagination. This planet has existed far a long long time and our consciousness is limited and largely dependant on existing science.

I used to read a lot of translations when I was younger. While I'm not a complete believer, some texts certainly do pique my interest.

Some Indian texts describe the effects of a nuclear blast in great detail, from the initial blast down to the chilling effects of radiation poisoning and they detail them in the exact order we know today.

While description of flight maybe a result of fantasy, the reason why someone would go into the details of the mechanisms or even write a flight manual evades me completely.

A lot of details were "Lost in Translation" or were peppered by unscrupulous scholars, maybe they didn't understand the context of the texts, and these caused irreparable damage.

Most ancient Indian texts were translated by western scholars who may not be as familiar with the nuances of Sanskrit.

All in all, they do make a very interesting read.

Originally posted by AryanWatch


www.sciforums.com...

I'am geniunely confounded. And what about you?

thats impossible.

you are being delusinal.

america invented nuclear energy.called manhatten project.


america invented the first planes

oliver and wilber wright...


WE americans are the leader in technological advance...

we invented th 1st bulb...

in only 300 years we have transformed an empty continent to a super power without equal...

we are the technonogical masters...

i understand people in india dont even have clean water to drink....

have no food to eat.

live in villiages and mudhuts with cows grazing outside.

no scientits or inventors

no electricity.

how can you make planes without clean water or electricity without scientists...industry and understanding of complex fhysics?

these documents are fake...fake...FAKE!

ANTI AMERICAN COMMINISTS PLANTED THEM


do you hear that?


[edit on 23-5-2007 by esecallum]

ANTI AMERICAN COMMINISTS PLANTED THEM

esecallum - Your so called Anti American Communists( you missed the spelling) were not even around when these texts were written.Forget about that - America was nowhere in sight. Before making the claims about a nation like you have done,don't you think it would be wise ( which I doubt you are) for you to do some Secondary Research and open your eyes and look around you. Nobody is trying to discredit America or Americans.America is truely a great nation but does that mean that we become like you. ATS id for denying ignorance and not for spreading ignorance. Go to my profile page and you will get your answers.

Please Note: Electricity is not an AMERICAN invention.It was invented by Nikola Tesla of Serbia. Go to Google and find for your own ignorant self.

AMERICA INVENTED ELECTRICITY.

faraday invented electricity..

Michael Faraday

The credit for generating electric current on a practical scale goes to the famous scientist, Michael Faraday. Faraday was greatly interested in the invention of the electromagnet, but his brilliant mind took earlier experiments still further. If electricity could produce magnetism, why couldn't magnetism produce electricity.

In 1831, Faraday found the solution. Electricity could be produced through magnetism by motion. He discovered that when a magnet was moved inside a coil of copper wire, a tiny electric current flows through the wire. Of course, ....





FRANKLIN FARADAY INVENTED ELECTRICITY.

EDISON invented bulbs to use it.

you are a lier for for foreign enemies..are you a comminist?

[edit on 23-5-2007 by esecallum]

Ok repeat after me:- C O M M U N I S T. Communist. Do you even know what a communist is? If you did you would probably not use the word so often.

Back on topic, I have been interested in this topic for a long time. I have seen a wealth of information on the net but have trouble wading through BS to get to the true historical facts.