How do Psychoactive Chemicals Tie in to Your Beliefs?

I recommend The Cosmic Serpent by Jeremy Narby for an easy read on '___'/"Peruvian shaman" beliefs. If you want an even quicker read here is a link to a Q&A with the author.

i can't find much info on how psychedelics actually work, i've been wondering what they actually do in the brain and the mechanisms by which they ''open'' consciousness.

it has occoured to me that the confusion of senses that sometimes happens, can't remember what it's called, might point to a decentralization of neural impulses, as you guys probably know we have one part of the brain for vision, a different part for hearing etc., so if you can experience sound as colour or lights as a tingle on the skin then your brain may well be using two different parts of the brain to process information.

if this happens with the senses then i don't see any reason why it shouldn't also be happening with internal thought processes, as in, more of the brain is being used than would normally be the case to think about any given thought. thats the best reason i can think of.

another theory i have, perhaps a bit more on topic, is that the only possible way that the current drug classifications used by governments make sense is if they are motivated by the compliance they instill in a population.

alcohol, for instance, makes a person pretty compliant and on a larger scale pretty peaceable, when drunk a person is completely unaware of ''the bigger picture'' and when hungover they are unlikely to care about it. people who use alcohol on a regular basis are by and large ''upstanding members of society''.

on the other hand the ''middle'' drugs like cannabis ecstasy and psychedelics are illegal because they are far more likely to cause people to be unhappy with being controlled consumers and yet still capable of exercising their democratic rights, basically making them very difficult to distract with ''stuff''.

hard drugs like crack or heroin, are the ones that will really make you leave society altogether, in other words a non-consumer, and god knows we can't have that.

Originally posted by biggie smalls

You're confusing drugs with psychadelics. Psychadelics are not "drugs" in the traditional sense. Everything we consume is a mind-altering substance including water, sugar, caffeine, and alcohol.

Some "drugs" are used as a form of escape. This is from the users' standpoint, but not the actual chemical itself. If used properly it can be great incite into the mind and body (soul too).

Its all about moderation my friend.

You may categorize psychadelics in any way you wish, that's your right. You don't seem to give me much credit for the experimentation with drugs (including 'psychadelics') I've done. Have you ever narrowed your focus to a single point through meditation? If not, I highly recommend everyone practice this. If nothing else, it's at least a cheaper alternative. I do agree that the various things we ingest can affect our perceptions, but the human body is also capable of doing this on it's own, through the release of hormones, etc.

I don't believe the intent of the user enters into the equation in any way at all. Whether someone uses a drug to escape or to know god or etc, the only thing happening is another separation of perception from true reality. This is the only insight I've ever gained from using drugs, including legally prescribed ones.

I hope I don't come across as judgmental or anti-drug in anyway, because that would make me a hypocrite. I just don't think that there is any inherent value in psychadelic use beyond escapism. Escapism in moderation can indeed be a good thing.

Originally posted by unclelester

I don't believe the intent of the user enters into the equation in any way at all. Whether someone uses a drug to escape or to know god or etc, the only thing happening is another separation of perception from true reality.

i tend do disagree, most of the natural psychoactive drugs people use mimic the chemicals that are released by the brain, thats what causes the effects, as such they can be used quite well to enhance the effects you describe, with the correct intent.

for instance, hashish is very, very useful for meditation and internal examination when ingested orally, its something to do with the way it's processed in the liver that changes it's composition.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by pieman]

i have been interested in this stuff for a while now, especially since i smoked salvia, experimented with mushrooms and have had a complete paradigm shift/awakening of sorts. Has anyone read the book Breaking Open the Head: A Psychadelic Journey into the Heart of Shamanism, by Daniel Pinchbeck? If you haven't, and your interested in this stuff, then it's a must read. It's nice to read an account of somebody who went into it as an atheist and someone very firmly grounded in what he perceived as "reality," which he comes to believe is just another hypnotic trance in itself, or a programmed world view, so to speak.

the native american peyote churches come to mind....

i typed this super long post and it all sounded good but when i got to the end i realized that all my hallucinogen experience has basically helped me figure out what fear is and how important a role it plays in everyday life, situations, emotions, and relationships....

and the proverbial "THEY" def dont want the peasants walking around all free and not afraid.

i strongly encourage everyone and of everyage if you havent yet eat a gram of cubensis, goto the park with some buddies on a nice day and when no1 is looking hug a tree its actually pretty cool.

i do not suggest, datura, baby woodrow seeds, 5-meo-dipt or the synthetic mescaline dots.

as i have grown older i no longer use them like the "good ol days" but when im at SCI or WSP or related type concerts i almost always venture into that side.

there is just soo much on psychedelics and the relation to religion and the cultures around the world that use them its amazing and an incredibly interesting topic.

correct me if im wrong but im pretty sure some groups of viking would eat the mushrooms before raping and pillaging....something to think bout there.


im still waiting for someone with a sensory depravation tank and a vial of fluff to come my way



[edit on 9-5-2007 by 911fnord]

Comm, interestingly enough I just purchased 2012: the return of quetzalcoatl, but have only read the first few chapters. He is a very interesting man.


Salvia and cannabis are personal favorites of mine, but I'm sure there are others that open your mind even more.

I have heard Amanita Muscaria is a great hallucinogen that when combined with cannabis has a great uplifting awakening experience. Plus, they're legal in the states .

[edit on 9-5-2007 by biggie smalls]

ok u have to be careful when you are saying these things are naturally occuring bc '___' for example in not naturally occuring. lysergic acid is extracted from ergot....the diethylamide is synthetically added. Cocaine is not on your list...that is a naturally occuring psychoactive substance. opiates are naturally occruing but they are extracted from opium... and the only 3 naturally occuring opiates with psychoactive effects are morphine, codeine, and thebaine...sorry no oxycodone.

as far as my opinion...if its natural let it be.

biggie,
yea i want to get my hands on that book, i wasn't even aware, until recently, that Pinchbeck had written anything besides Breaking Open the Head. He's definitely a very interesting man, and I found myself relating to him a lot while reading his book. I actually saw him speaking on a documentary on the History Channel about 2012.

i've also been interested in Amanita Muscaria for a while now. i believe it is a strand of mushrooms, isn't it? i believe salvia is still legal in the states as well, but they may be close to outlawing it. i used to by it at a beach shop on the boardwalk in Seaside Heights by my house. it comes in a packet that has pictures of pyramids and planets on it. i had no idea, at the time, what i was getting myself into but the picture should have been a foreshadowing, haha, and cannabis, of course, is a given and a personal favorite especially when combined with psylocibin mushrooms.

[edit on 9-5-2007 by comm12]

[edit on 9-5-2007 by comm12]

Psychoactive Chemicals allow you to think outside the box, to experience a way of thinking and percieving that isn't accessible through day to day living.

I feel that they added volumes to my life experience.

Interesting thread. Perused some forums here & time to jump in I guess.

Right or wrong my personal take is that drugs, of whichever sort/quality/intensity you choose, can be either used as an escape, as recreation (which can be a form of escape) or used as a tool. Nowadays I only smoke herb (never tried salvia, on my list tho), but I have done many - grew shrooms for a spell, sold lsd, name it i probably tried it, etc.

Although I have used them for recreation, I find that they do help to lower barriers in the mind, or at least have in mine - if consciously used as such and not in excess, but comfortable doses. Excess has its own effects, sometimes adverse, sometimes not.

But marijuana works the best for me in that regard though. If relaxed in a comfortable atmosphere, that can be a natural philosophical setting and the mind can indeed wander into some strange places if you let it. Smokin reef at the same time does amplify this.

I'm considered a creative individual, and I also think that aspect of my own self - the conceptual exploring the unknown and the freedom it brings - is in large part resulting from this natural assistance, or at least it was/is a factor in my development.

But, too bad it is getting demonized (by the same that are demonizing "everything/body else" btw) by some that haven't tried. This is, I think, due in large part to non-conscious fear of their own mind. Or it's tried in controlled and sterile conditions and, well, we all know the concepts paranoia & uncomfortable circumstance.

As well, I have found that a buzz can actually be burnt off by going into the transcendental states (dont like using that word nowadays, people generally snicker when they hear it, lol, but wtf). I have consciously done this and cleared the mind every time, left only with the crappy feeling coming down usually gives the body. lsd, crack, coke - tried those, three separate instances I can remember, with success. Being able to do this somehow presupposes familiarity with said states though I think. Its an archetypal fire thing tho.

Like the Tshirt from the 70's sez - god made grass, man made booze - who do you trust ?

I too have tried many natural psychedelics, but one that I had to make my self was from a flower called "Angel trumpet". It is a white flower, but i have seen different variations. A tea is made and consumed. I would compare the effects to '___', but some after effects last days. If this tea if made wrong it can be very dangerous so i do not recommend it.
I feel that my experiences with these chemicals has greatly opened my mind to
new worlds and insight. I think that society needs to wake up and understand
that some plants have special powers, and we need to use these as they were intended.

I saw a programme on TV a few years ago about how they were trying to cure addicts of their drug addictions by giving them therapy whilst tripping on '___' at the same time. It proved helpful in a good few cases. Perhaps it got them in touch with their soul and brought up the empathy for their families they seemed to have lost with their cravings for a hit. Anyone see that prog? Sorry if it's been mentioned already, I kind of jump pages when I'm trying to catch up.

wigit, there have been studies done as you said, using both '___' and '___' to cure addictions and compulsive behaviour. If i remember correctly, one was done awhile ago in Denmark, on a village that was consumed by Heroin addicts.

With a one off application of '___' or '___', and of course a professional to guide the person (kinda like a shaman), in many cases a person can leave their addictive habbits behind. This is due to these psychoactive chemicals actually reducing the withdrawawl symptoms of opiates/reward centres of the brain, which when combined with a fresh outlook and perspective on life, can really do wonders for the addicted person.

Alternative medicine does work, and science can verify it. Why don't we hear about it more if it is real/does work? You'll have to address that question to a representative of a pharmaceutical company

i can't find much info on how psychedelics actually work, i've been wondering what they actually do in the brain and the mechanisms by which they ''open'' consciousness.

That is because nobody (except strassman) has had an official study since the 60s

Comm, interestingly enough I just purchased 2012: the return of quetzalcoatl, but have only read the first few chapters. He is a very interesting man.

Great book that touches on everything from 911 to crop circles, and of course the main focus is psychedelics and 2012, highly reccomended.

ok u have to be careful when you are saying these things are naturally occuring bc '___' for example in not naturally occuring. lysergic acid is extracted from ergot....the diethylamide is synthetically added. Cocaine is not on your list...that is a naturally occuring psychoactive substance. opiates are naturally occruing but they are extracted from opium... and the only 3 naturally occuring opiates with psychoactive effects are morphine, codeine, and thebaine...sorry no oxycodone.

The point of this post never really was meant to be all about natural psychoactives, but when I started typing them out it made it seem that way, sorry. I realize '___' isn't natural but the main ingredient is and I know that there were instances in earlier times where peope would eat ergot because it has effects of it's own.

I didn't add coc aine and that sort of thing because I didn't think it really had any significance to the topic, but I guess that is my opinion, I never tried the 'harder' stuff so I guess I wouldn't know first hand.

Opiates are from the poppy plant and include what you mentioned plus heroin, and some other codeine and morphine realted variations not worth mentioning.

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Let's try and stay on topic. This thread isn't about what drugs are or how they work. I mainly want people to tie them to their beliefs related to topics on this board, that is why I provided those example questions. I'm glad you all have so much to say but some of what I see isn't really on topic.

I guess about the only thing mentioned here I've not experienced myself would be '___', mescalin and peyote. There were a couple other obsurce psychedellics that were mentioned that I'd never even heard of, but I've been out of that scene for a few years now.

There been quite a bit of mention of how these can open up your mind, or help you think outside the box. And on some level very much I agree. I know some have helped me think differently quite a bit. But, it took some time to get there. When I first started eating '___' & mushroons it was for fun. Going camping, going to a concert, etc. Then after a while I wouldn't take the paper stuff (I've only seen liquid - never dosed with it) anymore. I did continue eating gelcaps after that, which to me seemed like a lot stronger and longer trip. But, it was only when I began doing this for myself that I reached a point that I would call enlightenment. Before that, I was only doing the stuff for fun.

Which brings me to my point:

I think it's all relative to the person that is looking for enlightenment. And indeed if that is what the person is seeking. This thread should come with a warning label. I'd hate for some 16 year old to get on here and all of a sudden think these drugs would be the greatest thing ever and run out and try to find some mushrooms.

I've had a few friends totally wig out on their first and only trip. Other friends that were "chemically imbalanced" and on medication seem perfectly normal when on '___'. One friend of mine ended up ending his life with a shotgun after brewing up some mushroom tea because he "didn't like the person he'd become".

I've indeed had a bad trip when I was only eating acid for fun. Too many people, unfamiliar situation. I guess I just felt vulnerable and I just retracted from my surroundings until I had come down. That's not to say these substances can't be used for the good of elightenment. I think that's the very reason they exsist. But, they're DEFINTELY NOT FOR EVERYONE.

Originally posted by Mushroom Fields Forever
... The importance of the naturally occurring substances such as marijuana, mushrooms, dmt, ibogaine, and many others is obvious in early cultures, but is virtually overlooked in modern society.

the 'importance' is greatly exaggerated, not everyone was continuiously 'stoned' as you seem to suggest...
sure there were 'rites' like a passage to manhood or
'rites' of initiation into the lifetime of burdonsome shamanism...
when most every member of the group was socially required to ingest these 'natural' substances.
And that episode was mainly the 1st & last time of doing those mind altering/psychedelic "naturally occuring' plant chemicals.
Crossing the threshold, as it were, for a Lifetime!

As for all these 'trippy' drugs,
i view them as windows to my world, for the average person.
being schizophrenic, what the drug induced state transports the 'normal' persons view of reality is...
Is my normal experience, but perhaps not so overwhelming in some cases.

People can come to believe that these departures from ordinary reality are religious experiences, or intellectual growth & awareness, or whatever, it depends on their instilled cultural mindset....
i'd remind you that 'Helter-Skelter'
'Heaven's Gate', 'Assassins', and countless acts of 'brain-farts' have their genesis from those psychoactive episodes, with a strong & compelling voice telling the person 'certain things'...

just my opinion
leading the individual

Originally posted by Mushroom Fields Forever
See if I wanted to fill this thread with sarcasm I would say something like, "Hmm, you are pretty popular on this board aren't you?"

Nice personal attack. Apparently your argument is so moronic that you can't even defend it without one.

Try again and I'll forget that you acted like such a child.

Nice personal attack. Apparently your argument is so moronic that you can't even defend it without one.

Try again and I'll forget that you acted like such a child.

I don't know what argument you are talking about. You said there are plenty of references to the elite. The word elite appears less than 5 times. 3 times on the first page, 1 was a sample question and 2 were people saying they don't think there is any relation. There is 1 on the second page - you. None on the third.

That is the only argument I had, so please explain how it is moronic. Actually don't... I think I'll just ignore you to get rid of the confusion.

I was only sarcastic to you because you were to me
Maybe you should read before being a smart ass

i ate roughly 8 grams of those red and white mushrooms last night combined with several deep bong hits of salvia x20 as well as a joint of kind marijuana. well let me tell you that the combination of these drugs was an overwhelming journey that allowed me to realize that there is another world/dimension that exists. it is a place where we all end up going when it is our time to leave this world as we know it. it was a very powerful experience in which I was convinced that Earth is basically a test platform for our souls to see if we are righteous enough to enjoy the fruits of the next dimension.

[edit on 12-5-2007 by LooseLipsSinkShips]