Rumsfeld keeps ghoulish 9/11 souvenirs

Originally posted by LightWorker13
How can they get away with taking "souvenirs" from the scene of a crime? How can they get away with tampering with evidence??

Dont forget about ground zero, which was one giant crime scene. Now in law enforcement, your not supposed to tamper with any piece of material from a crime scene, nevermind take the rubble and ship it off to China to be melted!

So, Rudy Giuliani and the City of New York, really committed a Federal crime just days after 911, when he ordered all the rubble to be shipped overseas to be destroyed. And when questioned about it, he said "oh, we didnt know people wanted us to keep any of the evidence!" Hello! You moron! You are complicit with the coverup of federal involvement.

Because you see, if they left the rubble there, then independent investigators and inspectors would rummage through it, inspecting and investigating, and oh my they might find things that were never meant to be found.

If they let that happen, they could find out very quickly exactly what brought the buildings down. But the fact that they didnt let that happen, within days of 911 they were taking the rubble out and shipping it to China to be melted down.

Its illegal to do that, but these people werent prosecuted no! They were labeled as heroes! Bush Administration, the Pentagon, the Military, all of these institutes FAILED MISERABLY to do their job, which was to protect America. They failed! Why werent they fired? Or fined? Or at least a tap on the wrist?? NOOO! They were heroes, so brave and courageous in times of great peril, yes, while many people were jumping to their deaths with the WTC, Dick Cheney was hiding in a little hole in Nebraska, and George Bush was sitting in a school reading a story about goats to kids, before being taken away aboard Air Force One, where he flew around aimlessly.

Heroes, yea....these people should be thrown in the slammer.


[edit on 7-5-2007 by LightWorker13]

God Bless You, that was so well said.
I just wanted to say kudos to you.

Just to let you know it did not all go to China. Some of it was melted down as China is a large importer of steel.

If anything, it shows he has some compassion and is not as cold hearted as some may think.

Rumsfield is coldhearted.
stone cold
and the movement of any debris without CSI was criminal...the shipping away of it with no CSI was incomprehensible...


the keeping of it for some obscure memorial is just sick.


[edit on 7-5-2007 by junglelord]

Thats not the point Esdad71, that metal should have stayed here on US soil. It came from the WTC and that was evidence and should not have been shipped off to China and melted down. You must be joking if your referring to Rumsfeld being compassionate.

[edit on 5/7/2007 by Leyla]

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by nyk537
It isn't a trophy or anything like that. It's just something to have to remember that terrible day. Nothing more.

So, if a cop picks up the bullet that went through his partners heart and keeps it as "something to remember that terrible day", it would be ok for this to happen? Nothing more than obstructing justice IMO.

Not so sure whats wrong with that. Maybe the cop wants to always remember his partner and how tragically his life ended so that he will always be vigilant to find the criminal.

People keeping items to remind them of tragedies is nothing new.

Originally posted by Inannamute
When someone you love dies, do you keep a piece of their coffin to remember them by? If they die in a car crash, do you grab a winshield wiper?

No. You keep their photos.

I dont get the logic here. The point is, if you wanted to take a peice of the coffin or windshield wiper, who in their right mind would stop you? Whether or not you beleive its weird or wrong to take a peice of coffin or wiper is irrelevant. It's about letting people do what they want when it comes to mourning.

Answer me this: Is wrong for a family member to grab the windshield wiper off a car that their child died in? Is it wrong for someone to grab a piece of a coffin that a loved on was buried in? Is it "disgusting", as you put it?

had i been there , i would have kept something .
that's history , how many people own history .

I think most people would keep something from that type of event...and some of you are not being honest..you would...your just screaming with moral outrage because of who the person in question is.

I have 2 pieces of the Berlin wall, have a friend who was in Switzerland at the time and made a bee-line for Berlin as soon as mass protests started...is that goulish, macabre, sick?...NO!!!...

IT'S a PIECE OF HISTORY!!!...would I keep a piece of the WTCs fror posterity...YES!!!

and so woould most of you...the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice bashing doesn't fit every scenario under the sun. They are people marking histories passing just like the rest of us

Someone said momentos...I agree, thats all they are.

to compare the breaking of the berlin wall to 9/11 is apples and oranges.
the breaking of the wall was a sign of freedom.
It may have stood for evil, but its destruction was the sign of good and democracy over evil and communism.
the end of the cold war.

the 9/11 event was not a sign of freedom.
It will never be seen as a good thing
the end of the wall was a good thing
come on guys try some logic please

Originally posted by Inannamute
Just ran across this in my reading today - The final investigatory report said the Justice Department inspector general confirmed
Rumsfeld "has a piece of the airplane that flew into the Pentagon." The Associated Press
obtained a copy of the report Friday

Dear Inannamute:

Now THAT’S DISINFORMATION at its finest. I don’t mean your thread, which is good, Inannamute. I mean the Associated Press report.

Rummy doesn’t have just any old souvenir. No, of all things it has to be an airplane part! Why? Because there were no planes on 9-11 crashing into anything. A red herring doesn’t get any redder than this.

Truth is, he doesn’t have squat. This type of information, err, propaganda is being deceptively released. All according to our normal warfare strategies which include the media as an asset. They don’t mind if people find the collecting of 9-11 keepsakes disgusting — they (the cabal) just wants us to believe the story.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

Originally posted by Leyla
Thats not the point Esdad71, that metal should have stayed here on US soil. It came from the WTC and that was evidence and should not have been shipped off to China and melted down. You must be joking if your referring to Rumsfeld being compassionate.

[edit on 5/7/2007 by Leyla]

Evidence? Im sorry, at the time im not so sure that the city of New York was really worried about people wondering how the WTC came down. At the time they were pretty sure a plane hit it. I don't know, after the fact, im pretty sure their not too worried about it.

Styki

Its no secret that serial killers and mass murderers like keeping trophies and souveniers of their victims.

Why would it be different for one like Rummy and the rest of the Bush cabal?

Ludacris.. Yes, I think most people would consider keeping the windshield of a car someone you knew died in a sign of some severe mental problems related to grief.

Some of the items removed by people as souvenirs could be considered tantamount to looting.. It's ok to loot a crime scene now?

I don't care who it is, the actions of all of these people, rumsfeld or not, are reprehensible.

That's my opinion. You all are welcome to your own opinions, but to me, keeping souvenirs like that is macabre

Originally posted by Wizard_In_The_Woods

Originally posted by Inannamute
Just ran across this in my reading today - The final investigatory report said the Justice Department inspector general confirmed
Rumsfeld "has a piece of the airplane that flew into the Pentagon." The Associated Press
obtained a copy of the report Friday

Dear Inannamute:

Now THAT’S DISINFORMATION at its finest. I don’t mean your thread, which is good, Inannamute. I mean the Associated Press report.

Rummy doesn’t have just any old souvenir. No, of all things it has to be an airplane part! Why? Because there were no planes on 9-11 crashing into anything. A red herring doesn’t get any redder than this.

Truth is, he doesn’t have squat. This type of information, err, propaganda is being deceptively released. All according to our normal warfare strategies which include the media as an asset. They don’t mind if people find the collecting of 9-11 keepsakes disgusting — they (the cabal) just wants us to believe the story.

Greetings,
The Wizard In The Woods

Precisely what I was thinking , Wizard_In_The_Woods. How can Rumsfeld have a piece of the plane if no real plane hit the World Trade Center? A conundrum at it's finest.

Originally posted by Inannamute
I mean, to me a souvenir reminds you of a happy holiday, or some important personal celebration.. not a mass murder..

Or perhaps the final act that would coalesce a nation into a state of pacification, to allow a secret tyrannical cabal to come take over?

To me, and I'm sure other CTer's out here, it seems that good ole Donnie here is just keeping a personal momento to remind him of the killing blow to our sovereignty. Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems funny to me that a government official that's so closely entwined with the President and his organizations would do something so heinous as keep something like that. For what purpose exactly?

The only logical conclusions that I could come to are that he's either keeping it to remind himself of what happened, which would make me seriously wonder about his mental state, or he's keeping it as a trophy of sorts. While I'd prefer the earlier of the two, I'm afraid that it's actually the latter.

Again, these are just my thoughts, and shouldn't be construed in any other way than such. I would, however, like to point out one other little thing. Don is a member of two of our most entertaining Secret Societies: The Bilderbergers, and The Council on Foreign Relations. Do these have a bearing on the case at hand? You, my fair and impartial audience, will have to decide that one for yourselves.

TheBorg

[Edited to add linkage.]

[edit on 8-5-2007 by TheBorg]

Alright, this is just ridiclous as a conversation point. I served in the Gulf in 2004-05, and I kept 2 pictures on me at all times. One, a picture of my girlfriend, and another picture of the flowers and pictures of loved ones that lined battery park when I responded to 9/11. If I had a momento from the actual site of one of these horrendous acts, I probably would have carried it with me all the time to remind me what I was fighting for. Say what you want about Rumsfeld, I have little if any respect for him, but if he is a patriot he probably keeps momentos to remind him why we are doing what we are doing in the Middle East (conspiracy theories and whatnot aside).

Consider when the Berlin Wall fell. I have friends from Germany who treasure pieces of the wall, and keep them displayed in their homes. It is a reminder to them of all that their country overcame and the suffering that their people went through.

Originally posted by PolishWonder
Consider when the Berlin Wall fell. I have friends from Germany who treasure pieces of the wall, and keep them displayed in their homes. It is a reminder to them of all that their country overcame and the suffering that their people went through.

I guess it comes down to a simple point of view. To me, the events of that day have done no good thing for this country. We've lost more than we should have, and we continue to do so as long as we're fighting for someone else's freedom. Everyone says we're fighting for our own, but I've yet to see any major threat since 9/11 of anything that could be construed as a sincere threat to our national security from any organization.

What does all of this mean? It simply means that if someone keeps a momento from an event like this, then they're remembering something that I'm not. I fail to see how the fall of the Berlin Wall relates at all with 9/11, since the Great Wall falling was a good thing, unless you're now saying that 9/11 was good for something?

If so, please enlighten me.

TheBorg

Originally posted by johnlear
I'd like to see the piece of the airplane that Rumsfield supposedly has just to be sure that, you know, it was actually an airplane that crashed into the WTC.

Other than this alleged piece I know of no other airplane part that has come from inside the WTC. There were some alleged parts on the ground outside the WTC but nothing from inside.

This story is very conveniently reinforcing that there was in fact a Boeing 767 that crashed into the WTC.

John, the article states it is a piece of the plane that flew into the Pentagon

I know you do not think a plane hit the pentagon, so you feel teh same way about the towers? No planes there either? All Holograms still your best guess?

Way back in elementary school, fourth or fifth grade I think, we were told the story of a slave that had escaped from the south and upon having the iron colllar removed he took a file and made a loop earing from a piece of it and pierced his ear. When asked why he did that he said it was so he would always remember where he once had been. Of course that story may not be true, but at the time it was thought provoking.

One of the things not reported by MSM is that President Bush and Laura try to personally visit the as many of the families of soldiers that have died as they can. All to extend their personal sorrow for their loss and to thank them for their loved ones service. Their only stipulation is that the families keep it personal and leave the press out of it. W does this so it is not viewed as media lipservice. I honestly would not be surprised if he had the name of every KIA with him at all times as a reminder that he sent them to die.

Myself, were I president I would mostlikely have them tattooed and kept that information very secret. Some would view it as morbid. To me it would be a permanent reminder and memorial to those that followed my orders and the consequences of war.

So as far as Rummy having a piece of plane. I understand, I don't think of it as souvenir of history but as a reminder of failure to act in time. It has been said that the first thing that all presidential Secret Services guards are required to do is watch the Zapruder film repeatedly to learn what happens when they fail in their duty.

TheBorg-

Judging from your posts in this thread and others, I can guess your political persuasion (for the most part) and to which side of the 9/11 argument you are leaning towards. I was not trying to make the claim that 9/11 was a good thing. I was there the morning after it happened, and I have seen firsthand how bad it was. I have also seen the price our nation pays for responding to 9/11 overseas firsthand.

However, I was trying to show my personal belief that for various reasons, people may want to hang on to what happened to our country that day (regardless of what you believe). I had my reason, and I'm sure Rummy had his. Discuss.