Is Jesus really God in the flesh?

Hmm...I thought the original twelve was 1.Simon Peter, 2.his brother Andrew, 3.James the Greater, 4.his brother John the Evangelist, 5.Philip, 6.Nathaniel (or Bartholomew), 7.Thomas the Twin, 8.James brother of Jesus, 9.Matthew the tax collector, 10.Simon the Zealot, 11.Judas Iscariot the treasurer and 12.Jude (aka Thaddeus).

Do I need to post a link to back up the 12 disciples also? Scripture does not list the four gospels as aposles. If you can prove otherwise, then please show me the link.

The 4 Gospels weren't born during the Passion Era, I'll give you Matthew and John as names to toy with (though we both know they aren't the same people). But Mark and Luke aren't nowhere to be found as an Apostle of the Twelve meaning they were writers from another era. They were not APOSTLES. They were christians who told the same Gnostic tale passed down through tradition, meaning the gnostic texts can be held true to some degree because they remain unedited.

They also called Jesus their Lord and Savior or Master. They didnt call him the Son of God. The later writers posthumously gave Jesus that title. So in my opinion, If Jesus is sitting on the right hand of the Lord during Judgement, then the two can't be the same. I strongly believe he was the Word come to Flesh.





[edit on 8-5-2007 by Judaz_Escariot]

So in my opinion, If Jesus is sitting on the right hand of the Lord during Judgement, then the two can't be the same.

I'm not sure you can follow the logical progression to that conclusion. Wouldn't a logical determination of that statement require God to have physical hands too? If the 'right hand' can be figurative, then surely 'sitting at' it can be figurative too.

Not saying you're right or wrong, just saying I don't think you can use that verse as proof.

first off for those who will not read previous posts

the bible proves itself Thur prophesy
history confirms it

i am not using the bible to prove the bible
i am showing that prophesy in the bible is Gods way of proving its his word


now to Judas and a lot of the other posters, I have to work today so i will have to review all the info and i will try to address all your points



That was my first day here and boy is it intense, but i want to say i respect
almost all of your opinions and thoughts though i disagree with many
this one thread is almost like a full time Job

ATS is intense board for sure, i like it but one thing i wish is all the
flamers would go some where else, because its hard to address
those with real objections and real dissensions

any way thank Judas and all and i will answer your posts as soon as possible

God bless you

Occurs prophecies were told and prophecies were fulfilled after all, the bible recollection was always written after the fact to fit the agendas of the writers.

Nobody can prove that the bible was written before facts but its prof that it was written after the facts, redacted, manipulated and misinterpreted because the language barriers. Aramaic, Hebrew, Arab, Latin, Greek, early English and modern English by this time you can only guess.

The first testament as the historical accounts of the Jewish people and the unfulfilled prophecy of a Messiah.

And the old testament with the birth of Christianity.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
my answer: no

no man is god in the flesh. no man is the tooth fairy in the flesh. no man is odin in the flesh. no man is poseidon in the flesh. no man is the flying spaghetti monster in the flesh. no man is mithra in the flesh. no man is horus in the flesh. no man is the crow spirit in the flesh. no man is quetzocoatl in the flesh. no man is amateratsu in the flesh. etc.

No man is Odin in the flesh???????? Nimrod was

No man is Poseidon in the flesh?????? Nimrod was

No man is Mithra in the flesh???????? Tammuz was

No man is Horus in the flesh??????? Tammuz was

No man is the cow spirit in the flesh???????? Nimrod was

No man is quetzalcoatl in the flesh???????? Nimrod was

www.ldolphin.org...

All sent by the deceiver to keep you from seeing that Jesus is God in the flesh. The one who rose from the dead.......the one who walked on water, the one who healed the sick, let the lame walk and the blind see. Jesus the Messiah.......the son of the living God.

You might do your homework madness.

The universe is God, We are God in the flesh. God is not a divine being that created us in the sense that god is an entity. God is just a term for what created us...THAT is the universe.

Originally posted by marg6043
Occurs prophecies were told and prophecies were fulfilled after all, the bible recollection was always written after the fact to fit the agendas of the writers.

Poppycock.

Nobody can prove that the bible was written before facts but its prof that it was written after the facts, redacted, manipulated and misinterpreted because the language barriers. Aramaic, Hebrew, Arab, Latin, Greek, early English and modern English by this time you can only guess.

Anyone can prove that the prophesies were not written after the fact. The reason why there is talk that the prophesies are written after the fact is because they are 100 % accurate. It is prophesied that Israel would be restored as a nation in the last days. That happened in 1948. Was the prophecy written after this???????? We are wittnessing the judgement of Babylon with the war in Iraq right now. Jeremiah 50 and 51 and Isaiah 13 tell of this event. We could spend days disproving your statement.

As far as the supposed language problems.....the Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramiac and the New Testament was written in Greek.........What's the problem. The Dead Sea Scrolls prove the accuracy of the Old Testament. There are no problems here.

The first testament as the historical accounts of the Jewish people and the unfulfilled prophecy of a Messiah.

And the old testament with the birth of Christianity.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. The Old Testament give a historical account and proclaims the coming Messiah. The New Testament is the fulfillment of the Old Testament proclaiming the Messiah has come.

The Jews do not see their Messiah........AS PROPHESIED and the Gentiles are grafted in and many receive the Messiah as savior.........AS PROPHESIED.

thankyou all like tom said this is a thread that is almost like a full time job i go to sleep and come back to see like thirty new posts i have no idea where to begin i applaud you as well sun matrix for what you said just now and in a reply to funkydung i am still new to ats and i tried to quote you.

Sun Matrix

Just one question for you, show me where outside the bible Jesus was prophesied as the son of God or God in the flesh.

Then show me where in the bible Jesus said he was God in the flesh.

Originally posted by marg6043
Sun Matrix

Just one question for you, show me where outside the bible Jesus was prophesied as the son of God or God in the flesh.

I expect all prophecies from God would be contained in the Bible.
I can show you outside the Bible where a plethora of false messiahs have been written of to keep you from the truth.

Originally posted by marg6043
Then show me where in the bible Jesus said he was God in the flesh.

No problem.

John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

You spend too much time looking at sites that have no answers.

It would help if some folks would read others previous posts

so many questions where to begin?

did we answer you question followerofchrist?


simply put , yes Jesus is God in the Flesh as claimed by our scripture
since we are Christians we hold to that as it is an essential doctrine of our faith

[edit on 8-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

Sun Matrix

I already discussed the topic of John been the only one Claiming that Jesus was the son of God not that Jesus itself said that he was the son of God.

For such a man that until the last two centuries his gospel was highly disputed due to problems with the indentity of the author, it has become the base of the divinity of Jesus.

Perhaps you should go back to the beginning and see the discussion on that fact.

Also yes I agree that for Christians the bible is the only book that holds the faith of the believers.

But what will be of Christianity without the bible?

The truth is that it will no have a leg to stand on.

So the conclusion to Is Jesus really God in the flesh will be.

only if you are a believer.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Just for example. I'll take your own thinking and use it against you.

Show me where he says he is the son of man! Good Luck.

There are over 88 references in the Bible to Jesus being the son of man. As for Jesus saying of it himself: Luke 9:58 says, "Jesus replied, 'Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.'"
Mark 8:31 says, "He then began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and after three days rise again."

Mark 2:10 says, "But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins. . ."

Originally posted by avriel
I am sure that god sent Mohamed, Budha, Jesus, moses and every other enlightened man (call them prophets if you will) to pass on his message.

Would GOD send a liar?



No but he would be wise enough to understand that somebody on the other side of the earth would have no cultural context with which to place the words of Jesus. Therefore each culture would get its own prophet so that the word could be spread in a context that each man would understand. Even now, in this age of jet travel and world wide news reports Buddhism bears little relevence to most westerners and Christianity means very little to somebody born in the eastern hemisphere.

By stating that all religion is one religion I am merely saying that there is a huge power that holds the universe together. You call it god others call it their own name (or if they split this power down into many deities, names). Its name does not matter however because it is simply the binding force of the universe that resides in every object including man (therefore god is in all of us)
Look at the similarities in all religions, including the ancient prehistoric ones, and you will see the truth there before you



[edit on 8-5-2007 by avriel]

quote: Originally posted by avriel
I am sure that god sent Mohamed, Budha, Jesus, moses and every other enlightened man (call them prophets if you will) to pass on his message.



Would GOD send a liar?




No but he would be wise enough to understand that somebody on the other side of the earth would have no cultural context with which to place the words of Jesus----end quote

this is of course you own opinion, and it seems reasonable on the surface
of it but what does God say about this in scripture?

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1Cor 15:1-4

I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received,

how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Galatians 1
8.But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

All those other folks you mentioned bring a vastly different Gospel
than the one scripture say is the gospel in 1Cor 15:1-4
a lot of folks think the Gospel is the first four books of the new testament
but it is not, the gospel is defined in scripture in the verse above

[edit on 8-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

Originally posted by marg6043

So the conclusion to Is Jesus really God in the flesh will be.

only if you are a believer.

Marg,

You have flawed logic. Try logic 101. What you or I or anyone else believes has nothing to do with whether it is the truth or not.

The fact that Jesus is the risen Messiah, the Son of the living God, God in the flesh etc. will not change because of your belief. The only thing that will change is your eternal destiny.

Remember Sun Matrix this thread is for the conspiracies on religion not the preaching of religion.

So my destiny and eternity is not in question here, but Is Jesus really God in the flesh.

So far is highly debatable as the truth.

Would God send a lier some one asked, In Christ no

but to one who denies him and chases after false gods and prophets
then Yes he has, and why ? Because they are evil to him

see below

Micah

And he said, Hear thou therefore the word of the LORD: I saw the LORD sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left.


And the LORD said, Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead? And one said on this manner, and another said on that manner.


And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will persuade him.


And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He (The Lord) said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.


Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1Kings 22:19-23




[edit on 8-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

Prophecies:

-His birthplace
-that He would be born of a virgin
-that He would be rejected by His own people
-that He would be betrayed by a close friend
-that He would die by having His hands and feet pierced
-that He would rise from the dead

In the N.T. all these prophecies, and many more, are fulfilled by Jesus.

the bible proves itself Thur prophesy
history confirms it

i am not using the bible to prove the bible
i am showing that prophesy in the bible is Gods way of proving its his word

Which is it? In your first post, you say that all of these prophecies are fulfilled 'in the New Testament', and yet in your later post you say you're not using the bible to prove the bible and that history confirms these things.

That being the case, I'm sure you would be happy to provide historical sources verifying: Jesus's birthplace, his rejection by the Jews, his betrayal by Judas, his death by crucifixion & his being raised from the dead.

As far as I'm aware, the only verification for all of these events exists in the bible. If you can provide historical texts, I'd be happy to look at them, but my understanding of the historical verification of Jesus is that it is fairly limited.

Most scholars in the fields of biblical studies and history agree that Jesus was a Jewish teacher from Galilee who was regarded as a healer, was baptized by John the Baptist, was accused of sedition against the Roman Empire, and on the orders of Roman Governor Pontius Pilate was sentenced to death by crucifixion.

Source
Notice that these are not just historical scholars, but biblical scholars too. But if we ignore that for a moment, the only 'prophecy' I see verified there is the crucifixion one. And let's face it, it's hardly like Jesus was the only guy crucified by the Romans. And for the record, the fact that he was accused of sedition against the Romans does not count as 'rejected by his own people'. Jesus, as is alleged, was a Jew and not a Roman. There is no historical record of his rejection by the Jews.

You're welcome to believe the bible to be true and authentic. Frankly, you can believe whatever you like, but belief in the bible is certainly well within your rights. If you can provide external historical verification for your alleged prophecies, then I will certainly consider those - but as it stands currently, the only verification for fulfillment of these prophecies is contained within the bible itself.

Therefore, as above, you are using the bible to prove the bible.

Originally posted by tom_roberts
yes he is and he proved it

he raised himself from the dead
and will return --soon i hope


[edit on 7-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

[edit on 7-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

Others who were raised from the dead or were born through virgin births in ancient mythology, there are others but that will do.

Mithras
Osiris
Adonis
Dionysius
Heracles
Attis
Tammuz
Horus
Zamolxis
Zarathustra or Zoroaster
Lao Zi

Are these also Gods in the flesh, bear in mind that many of these were around long before Christ. Or were they mortal men like Christ, who just happened to be in the right place at the right time?

Originally posted by mojo4sale
Others who were raised from the dead or were born through virgin births in ancient mythology, there are others but that will do.

Mithras
Osiris
Adonis
Dionysius
Heracles
Attis
Tammuz
Horus
Zamolxis
Zarathustra or Zoroaster
Lao Zi

Are these also Gods in the flesh, bear in mind that many of these were around long before Christ. Or were they mortal men like Christ, who just happened to be in the right place at the right time?

Well let's see. Osiris, Dionysius and Zoroaster are Nimrod of Babylon

Mithras, Horus, Attis, Hercules, Adonis are Tammuz the son of Nimrod

All cunningly devised fables to keep the world from seeing Jesus the prophesied Messiah. Courtesy of the deceiver who has deceived the world.

2 Peter 1:16
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

All these things are spoken of in the Bible. And all originate in Babylon just as the Bible says.