Is Jesus really God in the flesh?

Originally posted by Sri Oracle

Originally posted by tom_roberts
also Jesus stated ''i and my Father are one''

I and my Father are one as well.

I and I are one.

Thine Kingdom mine; mine thus thine.

By the Grace this bread is my body.

I am,

Sri Oracle

another ''intellectual'' dropping by by to get off topic ?

Originally posted by Sparky63

On Jesus descension to 'Prison' aka Hell, the first person he rescued was Adam because he was the greatest of all men, and in the Lords likeness.

I fail to find and referance to Adam being rescued from Hell is the scripture, perhaps this idea is based on the Koran?
Interesting none the less.

I swear to you... I stood there naked on the bank of the river one day eating mulberries and wild mushrooms... far disconnected from the noise of babylonian hell; I bathed in pure waters. I was Adam.

Staring at the black and green screen to help illuminate your path back to the Garden...

I am,

Sri Oracle

hey


HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY




this is the topic of this thread


Is Jesus really God in the flesh?

Is Jesus really God? now before i make my statement i want to say that the mormons believe in three seperate entities God, Jesus, and the Holy spirit. Jehovah witnesses believe Jesus was the son of God. now us Christians believe in the holy trinity God, Jesus, and the Holy spirit so to start my argument why does it say in John 1:1 in the beginning there was the word and the word was with God and the word was God? then in verse 14 it says that the word became flesh and made his dwelling amoung us. we have seen his glory the glory of the one and only son of God who came from the father full of grace and truth....meaning the word of God is God and that word Became flesh which is Jesus...do you see where that is going? now in John 10:30 Jesus says i and the father are one now what does that mean? i think it means what it says and says what it means

Originally posted by St Udio


more correctly.... Was Jesus a /the God of the Bible come to earth in human flesh.
Belivers say 'yes'....rational minded people say 'It does not compute'

there is a 2,000 year history & countless manhours used to convince
people that they cannot be certain the Jesus=Christ=God fabrication
is not true.

When you add to it the fact that there is not one and I say again one original text of either the old or new testament THAT HAS EVER BEEN FOUND.

Then you add to it the fact up to the 1500's when the gutenberg press was invented all bible copies were copied by scribes copying each letter and word individually.

Then you add to it the fact these scribes could have and would have made copying errors.

And on top of that they could have and did change words, text and passages they either did not agree with or understand or thought were mistranslated copies from previous scribes. Given the various disputes among early Christianity.

Then on top of that there were translations from at least three other languages, Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek into various other languages. They could not have been accurate given translation and copying errors and again since there ARE NO ORGINAL TEXT THAT SURVIVED there is no way of knowing how accurate the translations and copies are.

Then to say today that the bible that is read and believed in by Christians around the world today is an accurate and true representation of the word of God is a fantasy that defies all logic.

it would seem to be futile to stay on topic

I

guess this is turning into a ''can you trust the bible thread''

[edit on 7-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

Originally posted by tom_roberts
another ''intellectual'' dropping by by to get off topic ?

Sorry to stray so far from the subject at hand. Irrelevant bantar... disregard.

Aum Harooom.

Irie Jahrations,

Sri Oracle

thanks,
its hard to keep a train of thought is all when the thread splinters off
into many in depth and worthy of a thread questions

since very one else did it i feel i get to do it a little too


some one mentioned that the bible was a fable book

well look at this
seems another fable is fact

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Archaeologist finds tomb of King Herod

Archaeologist finds tomb of King Herod

you know nobody even thought of answering what funkydung said and i think that is pretty funny because i could not have said it better myself if you want to read what he said again go to page 3 of this thread he pretty much closed the case on this one. one might think he is a pastor the way he wrote just then i applaud you funkdung

just a few things on God/Jesus






they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."

--MATTHEW 1:23
"...if ye believe not that I am he,
ye shall die in your sins."
--JESUS CHRIST, JOHN 8:24






God/Jesus

God never changes.
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus never changes.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


God is the only Saviour.
"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12

God our Saviour. Titus 2:10

...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10

God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

Jesus is the only Saviour.
...the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14

...our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18

...God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 1:1

...the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42

...the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4

a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11

Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
--Acts 4:12

...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
--2 Timothy 2:10

...captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings.
-- Heb 2:10

[Jesus]...author of eternal salvation...
-- Heb 5:9

God/Jesus

God created the universe and earth by Himself.
I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. Isaiah 44:24

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

Jesus Christ created the universe and the earth.
[U]nto the Son he saith...Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands. Hebrews 1:10

[B]y him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16

All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3

God/Jesus

God is the Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

Jesus is the Word.
...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14

God/Jesus

God is the first and the last.

I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4
Jesus is the first and the last.

Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17



God / Jesus

God forgives sins.
[T]he Lord..forgiveth all thine iniquities... Psalm 103:2-3

"[W]ho can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7
Jesus forgives sins.
Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5

God /Jesus

God is our redeemer.
[T]hou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer.. Isaiah 63:16
Jesus redeemed us.
[T]the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14

God Jesus
God is one.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deuteronomy 6:4
Jesus and God are one.

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us John 1:1, 3, 10, 14

Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

God has a Son.

[T]he LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Psalms 2:7
Jesus is God's Son.

... [Jesus] said also that God was his Father... John 5:18



God Jesus
God is the Holy One
Psalms 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth,O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.

Psalms 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Psalms 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.

Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Messianic Psalm)
Jesus is the Holy One.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

3:13-14 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

13:34-35 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

God Jesus
Only God is worshipped.
... Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10
Jesus is worshipped.
While [Jesus] spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him... Matthew 9:18

And again, when [God] bringeth in the firstbegotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6

Originally posted by tom_roberts
Is Jesus really God in the flesh?

Is Jesus really God?

now before i make my statement i want to say that the mormons believe in three seperate entities God, Jesus, and the Holy spirit.

That is to state that "they" are focused on Corinthians 13:13... “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Spirit be with all of you.

Three facets of the All; manifestations of the One.

Jehovah witnesses believe Jesus was the son of God.

But so indeed do the Mormons... this is because of translation... you are discussing the Angelic in English; a language that downpresses the resonance of the Irie vibratory

now us Christians believe in the holy trinity God, Jesus, and the Holy spirit so to start my argument why does it say in John 1:1 in the beginning there was the word and the word was with God and the word was God?

The word is the vibration. The first vibration is Amen. Aum. Om. From the Vibration comes the Manifestation; Seek and ye shall find. The word was with God.

elo hiem na ma ha
mee tri yam elo hiem na ma ha

then in verse 14 it says that the word became flesh and made his dwelling amoung us. we have seen his glory the glory of the one and only son of God who came from the father full of grace and truth....meaning the word of God is God and that word Became flesh which is Jesus...do you see where that is going?

"For I tell you truly, all that you learn, all that your eyes of the spirit see, all that your ears of the spirit hear, all of this is as hollow as a reed if you do not send forth a message of Truth and Light unto the Sons of Men." Jesus, -The Teachings of the Elect

As the consciousness of Christ manifests as does the Word of God.

now in John 10:30 Jesus says i and the father are one now what does that mean? i think it means what it says and says what it means

I am you

I am that I am

I am He

Irie Aum Irie Aum Irie Aum

I am my Spiritual Father

Allah Jah Allah Jah

Allah Jah Eloheim Deus

Yours indeed,

Sri Oracle



[edit on 7-5-2007 by Sri Oracle]

Originally posted by followerofchrist
just a few things on God/Jesus






they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."

--MATTHEW 1:23
"...if ye believe not that I am he,
ye shall die in your sins."
--JESUS CHRIST, JOHN 8:24








God/Jesus

God never changes.
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus never changes.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


God is the only Saviour.
"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12

God our Saviour. Titus 2:10

...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10

God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

Jesus is the only Saviour.
...the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14

...our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18

...God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 1:1

...the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42

...the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4

a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11

Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
--Acts 4:12

...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
--2 Timothy 2:10

...captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings.
-- Heb 2:10

[Jesus]...author of eternal salvation...
-- Heb 5:9

God/Jesus

God created the universe and earth by Himself.
I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. Isaiah 44:24

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

Jesus Christ created the universe and the earth.
[U]nto the Son he saith...Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands. Hebrews 1:10

[B]y him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16

All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3

God/Jesus

God is the Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

Jesus is the Word.
...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14

God/Jesus

God is the first and the last.

I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4
Jesus is the first and the last.

Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17



God / Jesus

God forgives sins.
[T]he Lord..forgiveth all thine iniquities... Psalm 103:2-3

"[W]ho can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7
Jesus forgives sins.
Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5

God /Jesus

God is our redeemer.
[T]hou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer.. Isaiah 63:16
Jesus redeemed us.
[T]the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14

God Jesus
God is one.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deuteronomy 6:4
Jesus and God are one.

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us John 1:1, 3, 10, 14

Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

God has a Son.

[T]he LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Psalms 2:7
Jesus is God's Son.

... [Jesus] said also that God was his Father... John 5:18



God Jesus
God is the Holy One
Psalms 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth,O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.

Psalms 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Psalms 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.

Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Messianic Psalm)
Jesus is the Holy One.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

3:13-14 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

13:34-35 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

God Jesus
Only God is worshipped.
... Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10
Jesus is worshipped.
While [Jesus] spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him... Matthew 9:18

And again, when [God] bringeth in the firstbegotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6

isnt that what i posted?

I understand your frustration, and apologise for my part in the de-railing. But at the same time, it's not exactly a de-railing.

You're asking a question about the nature of the person known as Jesus Christ. Sure, we can look at history books for the record of the man himself, but you're not just asking about human aspects of the man Jesus Christ, you're asking about the supernatural elements of this being.

Such information will obviously not be in any history books (since the supernatural apparently doesn't exist according to history), so our next option is to reference the bible and other spiritual texts.

If we are going to reference these texts in answer to your question, then it's important to also discuss the legitimacy of these texts, as this has a direct bearing on the legitimacy of the answer to your question.

The point I'm making is that while I understand your frustration at the bulk of discussion about the legitimacy of the bible, it's not quite so off-topic from your original post as it might seem.

Originally posted by tom_roberts
it would seem to be futile to stay on topic

I

guess this is turning into a ''can you trust the bible thread''

[edit on 7-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

If you believe the bible is the word of God then show me how that is so given the fact there is again not one original surviving text of the bible.

Anyone can quote passages of the bible to make their point but how can one know what they are quoting is true based on the fact there is not one original surviving text of either the old or new testament that survives today? There are literally thousands of documented scribal and translation errors in the bible.

Other than the bible I dont think there is one other book or document in history that we would say is authentic or true to the word or quote from it as fact if there was no original text supporting it.

And yet so many quote passages from the bible thinking they are authentic and without error without ever understanding or questioning the sources which they quote from.

Provide some original book from all the books in the bible then we might have a discussion.

Until you or anyone can then all anyone is quoting from is a copy of a copy of a copy made over thousands of years translated from at least three different languages full of scribal and translation errors.

And to claim its words are accurate and authentic again defies all logic!



[edit on 7-5-2007 by etshrtslr]

As long as this thread is in ATS conspiracy in Religions is debatabe and will be taken with a conspiracy angle.

For people that wants a more spiritual angle and more references to the scripts in the bible that is what we have Faith, Spirituality & Theology in BTS.



[edit on 7-5-2007 by marg6043]

here is an article that answeres your question


What makes you think the Bible is the word of God?


Prophecy:

The Old Testament was written before Jesus was ever born. The New Testament was written by the men who knew Jesus, who walked with Him, ate with Him, and learned from Him. In the O.T. there are prophecies concerning His birthplace (Micah 5:1-2), that He would be born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), that He would be rejected by His own people (Isaiah 53:3),

that He would be betrayed by a close friend (Isaiah 41:9), that He would die by having His hands and feet pierced (Psalm 22:16-18), and that He would rise from the dead (Psalm 16:10, 49:15).

In the N.T. all these prophecies, and many more, are fulfilled by Jesus.

Now, this is the question you must answer: "If the Bible is not inspired from God, then why does it have so many fulfilled prophecies?"


How is that possible if the Bible were not from God?


Only God knows the future, has power over it, and can look into it to tell us exactly what will happen.

In the Bible we have the fingerprints of God: fulfilled prophecy!

Wisdom: The Bible is full of the greatest truths about man and God, sin, and salvation. The Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5) is beautiful in its wisdom, humility, and love.

The Psalms are incredible poetry of great depth and beauty. The N.T. epistles are great descriptions of love, forgiveness, longsuffering, kindness, etc.

(Even if you don't want to become a Christian, studying the truth God has revealed in the Bible will greatly help you in your life.) The aim is not to merely get the person to use the Bible as a guide to good living, but to encourage him to read it. This way, he will at least be reading the Word of God, and be that much closer to conversion, because God's Word will accomplish what He wants it to (Isaiah 55:11).

Geez Mr. Tom_Roberts...you seem to like dwelling on "Off topics" LoL j/k. A debate can go on forever which eventually lads off topic to explain your views.

1)Matt, Mark and Luther were apostles? Says who? They did not walk with Christ. To say someone can just claim they're apostles is nonsense. The Apostles who walked with Jesus had their books rejected by the biblical editors calling them heresies. With the exception of Peter and Paul.

2)No, I never seen or read the Da Vinci Code because its purely fiction and a waste of time.

3) I figured you were well versed in the Bible and knew the Book of Acts when I mentioned Peter sitting with a non Jew and said God is no respector of Man. So if you need the verses, I'll supply them for you.
The Acts 10: 28-35
www.biblegateway.com...:%2028-35%20;&version=31;

4)This is a forum for OPINIONS so when I say in my opinion, I'll go without verses. If not, then I can supply you with verses to back my claim. No thread ever stays on topic because everyone has strong opinions and it tends to get a little crazy.



[edit on 8-5-2007 by Judaz_Escariot]

[edit on 8-5-2007 by Judaz_Escariot]

Andrew, James, John, Judas, Luke, Mark, Matthew, Paul, Peter, Philip, Simon and Thomas

[edit on 7-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

err say scripture---unless you make up a new one

[edit on 7-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

I thought we were asking if Jesus is/was GOD in the flesh???

Not debating scriptures.

I understand that everything we have on Jesus IS written in scriptures, but it isn't the scriptures we are debating so much as the mechanics of a person being GOD in the Flesh.

Tom - you might as well have pulled out the old 'All scripture is God-breathed' verse again, because you've done the same thing: used the bible to prove the bible. It just doesn't work.

I understand that the bible is made of many books, but if we can consider the bible to be one book for the sake of argument. So events that are alluded to at the beginning of the book come to pass at the end of the book? That's hardly resounding proof. The same pattern is followed in just about every piece of competent fiction ever written. Events at the end of the piece are foreshadowed (prophesied) at the beginning of the piece.

I appreciate that you believe the book is true, and hell, maybe you're right. But if you're looking to prove that the book is true, you need a reference other than the book itself.