Is Jesus really God in the flesh?

Tom_Roberts, I know the definition of Gnostic and Agnostic. To me, The Four Gospels (who called themseleves "Gospels") were Gnostics because they seemed to have a secret knowledge of the kingdom. Matthew, Mark and Luke are not known for anything. However, John saw and wrote the revelations, so his words I do consider. Again...these men were born after the death of christ.

Plus, how can you not know where the favortism and racism towards the Jews are seen? Look into the Old Testament and part of the New. In the book of Acts, I believe it was Paul who sat with the Gentile and he said it was not common for a Jew to eat with a non jew. Paul replied, ....in my opinion God is no respector of man..meaning God sees no color.

But today, even through the Mel Gibson view of Christ, We have pictures of a Blonde and Blue eyed Christ when the bible gives a different discription. People will argue you to death about God being white and such. Does his color matter? No. But I'd like to see more accurate portrayals of biblical characters.

Plus, it was around the King James era when they villanized Mary Magdalene and painted her as a harlot. Doesnt that seem strange that EVERY religious text about her portray her in a good light, where as painters and old generational priests say she was a temptress? Also, dont Catholics and some Baptist sets deny the right of women to preach? Christians are to follow the New Testaments, not the Old. Thats where confusion comes in.

Examples: We do not have to tithe. Money turns church into a den of thieves. We can work on the Sabbath if its to make a living or to help someone. Women can preach the word just as men, but Catholics look down on that. Those are a few lesson that the Nag Hammadi texts taught, and of course, King James would edit that out, because without tithing, Priests couldnt get rich.

"God has no use for money and animal sacrifice. All he requires is self sacrifice in helping others" - Aquarian Gospel. If that sounds heretic, then I guess I am following the path of heresy.

My question is, Are todays priests better han the Apostles who walked and talked with Jesus? Did he not tell them to spread the Word and take no gifts in payment? Then why to priests today charge a tenth of your income and receive a paycheck to stand behind a podium when they have never seen the Face of God? Thats my view and opinion. I know I'm not the only one who thinks priests become corrupt once you bring money into the temple. And dont get me started on Televangelists! lol

[edit on 7-5-2007 by Judaz_Escariot]

Originally posted by WiseSheep

Revelation 2:18
And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

So here we have John saying that Jesus is the son of god. What I always ask people that proclaim Jesus to be god incarnate is "show me where Jesus himself says that he is the son of god"
The answer is that he doesn't he says that he is the son of man. He also proclaims that we all can do the things that he does if we have faith. That makes him no different to any other human except for his level of enlightenment. I believe in his words, I just don't believe in the words that have been put into his mouth or many of the enterptretations of his message.
I am sure that god sent Mohamed, Budha, Jesus, moses and every other enlightened man (call them prophets if you will) to pass on his message. I am not so sure however that these messages were heard, or rather were not heard correctly. I believe that all religion is one religion. (including the old polytheistic religions) I do not think that Jesus was God incarnate and I do not believe that he thought he was either.

tithe is like a tax the offering is what God blesses Give t ceaser what is ceasers (tax) and give to God what is Gods (firstfruits) and i fully believe that women should preach mary seen tomb and the angel and she told the disciples that he has risen yes God is no repecter of persons the mormons think Jesus was white but he would have been middle easten looking would he not being that he came from Isreal

all i have to say is John 10:30 i and the father are one Jesus said that meaning that he came from the father not that he created him

Originally posted by dAlen


Been there, done that...used to challenge to.
I was missionary of missionaries, lol
(seriously, I was a missionary)

But you know, when you challenge, make sure you challenge yourself first.
That will keep us and the whole world quiet - and we will live in harmony.

Lol I challenged myself once then got freaked out when I answered myself

No really I always question my beliefs and those of others It's the only way to find the truth. This is why I believe that there is truth in all of the religions of the earth (and maybe even those of extraterrestrial origin who knows). It is a shame however that man has chosen to twist these religions to their own means.
It's always fun having a theoligical debate with those that wish to convert me. That is why I invite them into my home and offer them some basic hospitality. well that and the fact that it must be dispiriting having door after door slammed in your face. I have noticed though that the Jehovas witnesses are hard line and will consider no other interpretation of the bibles words than there own where the Mormons will at least discuss alternative ideas. My aim is one day to convert one these people to my way of thinking and then send him back to his or her church with a seed of doubt implanted in his mind. I tell them "re read the bible with fresh eyes, remebering that it is not a perfect book (boy sometimes that gets them animated) and has been tampered with over the years. Then when you read it forget everything that you have been told that the words mean. Make your own enterpretations and think about them. then ask questions of your elders and see if they have ever done the same. You may find that they havent. In that case they are simply believing what they have been told to believe and they are expecting you to do the same. exercise some of that free will and think for yourself"

Of course it normally falls on deaf ears. But one day I might plant that seed who knows

[edit on 7-5-2007 by avriel]

Originally posted by avriel
So here we have John saying that Jesus is the son of god. What I always ask people that proclaim Jesus to be god incarnate is "show me where Jesus himself says that he is the son of god"
The answer is that he doesn't he says that he is the son of man.

Perhaps you should consider John 3:16 wher Jesus plainly stsates that he is the Son of God.

16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent forth his Son into the world, not for him to judge the world, but for the world to be saved through him. 18 He that exercises faith in him is not to be judged. He that does not exercise faith has been judged already, because he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. 19 Now this is the basis for judgment, that the light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. 20 For he that practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. 21 But he that does what is true comes to the light, in order that his works may be made manifest as having been worked in harmony with God.”

Twice Jesus refers to himself as the Son of God. First in vs 17 & then at the end of vs 18.

Originally posted by avriel
So here we have John saying that Jesus is the son of god. What I always ask people that proclaim Jesus to be god incarnate is "show me where Jesus himself says that he is the son of god"
The answer is that he doesn't he says that he is the son of man.

Just for example. I'll take your own thinking and use it against you.

Show me where he says he is the son of man! Good Luck.


The title, the son of man is important. Means more than the son of god. Calling himself the son of god would have one believe god just sent an angel to die for us.

He had to be the son of man and GOD. The kinsman redeemer.

Originally posted by avriel
He also proclaims that we all can do the things that he does if we have faith.

Yes if you have his faith. Not just faith, but the faith of Jesus. We strive toward it, but none are close.

Have you seen any of us move a mountain? How about at our command only, literally pull a tree up and plant it in the sea? The faith required to do that is comparable to a mustard seed. That ain't much, yet none of us have it.

If you feel that you do, I'm sure there are many a news media that would love to come document that.

Originally posted by avriel
That makes him no different to any other human except for his level of enlightenment.

Yep, you are absolutely right. If man was his daddy.

Originally posted by avriel
I believe in his words

You better get to reading then, because by them you will be Judged.

Originally posted by avriel
I just don't believe in the words that have been put into his mouth or many of the enterptretations of his message.

Neither do I. So when he said that GOD so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son. Who was he talking about? Muhammad?

Yes I'm being sarcastic!

Originally posted by avriel
I am sure that god sent Mohamed, Budha, Jesus, moses and every other enlightened man (call them prophets if you will) to pass on his message.

Would GOD send a liar?

Originally posted by avriel
I believe that all religion is one religion. (including the old polytheistic religions)

Yea the whole mess is pretty much a bunch of garbage at this point.

Originally posted by avriel
I do not think that Jesus was God incarnate and I do not believe that he thought he was either.

I don't think a whole lot of things either, but I'll guarantee you that doesn't change them.

[edit on 7-5-2007 by WiseSheep]

Sparky, John 3:16 was written by JOHN.

Remember, he wrote that around 120 years after Jesus' death. God and Jesus are like Father and Son due to the fact that he is the Word of God/ The Logos.

I am a Christian, but I beleive in the Quran with the one fact. "How can God die when he is eternal?" On Judgement Day, he'll ask souls of different beliefs why they worshipped Jesus, Mary etc. and not God. When they respond 'Because they told us too.' He'll ask Jesus who'll be at his right side did he say to worship him and not the Lord and he'll respond "You know my words before I even say them. So you know I never told man to worship me because that's idolatry." And Mary the same question and such...

God had a son and his name was Adam. He came from God himslef and not from a womb. Ancients believe he was the greatest prophet because he spoke with his father frequently as a son does even after he was exiled from the garden. The WORD of God became flesh and lived through the Christ. Thats why he 'Gave up the Ghost' on the cross, so its impossible for him to be God in the Flesh.

Every miracle he performed was through the Father. So how could the father ask the Father for power? The entire 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter distinguishes Christ as the Lord of Earth and God the Ruler of both Heaven and Earth. So they are two different beings.

On Jesus descension to 'Prison' aka Hell, the first person he rescued was Adam because he was the greatest of all men, and in the Lords likeness.

[edit on 7-5-2007 by Judaz_Escariot]

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

God I love this verse. Using the bible to prove the bible's authenticity. Let me show you how easily this works.

All posts by TheStev are given by inspiration of God and are profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

See, now all of my posts are the holy word of God. If you don't believe me check the above verse.

How many Christians here believe there are going to be Christians who get to heaven and are turned away from the gates with St Peter saying 'Look, you believed in Jesus, you believed he died for your sins, you tried to live your life like him as best as possible, but you believed he was God incarnate. The correct answer is he was half-God, half-man. But thanks for playing, better luck next time'?

Originally posted by TheStev
See, now all of my posts are the holy word of God.

Cool, so then you won't mind if we compare those with what he's already spoken. If they contradict then your word is your word.

Originally posted by TheStev
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Interesting verse, like many other verses of the bible they are all for personal interpretation.

Still lets stop the preaching and go back to the original question.

Is Jesus God in the flesh? Well we have seen the mistranslations of the bible through the various languages that has been translated from.

We know that is only John the one that claim Jesus been the son of god.

And also we know that revelations is the latest book of the bible even when John itself wrote that is was a book of prophecies, and it was only accepted by the church at the last moment due the problem of authenticity.

Who was John the one that wrote the book of Revelation and named Jesus as the son of God.

The author of the Apocalypse calls himself John. "John to the seven churches which are in Asia" (Ap., i, 4). And again, "I, John, your brother and your partner in tribulation . . . was in the island which called Patmos, for the word of God" (i, 9).

Actually he never wrote about his identity but was accepted as John the Apostle the son of Zebedee, the Beloved Disciple of Jesus.

So had Jesus ever said that he was God incarnated? or like anything that is in the bible is all been written by others in the name of god and Jesus.


[edit on 7-5-2007 by marg6043]

Well, as it is written GOD is the all; therefore all of us would be a representation of this force "GOD"

So while the universe is monstrous and the items in it quiet numerous it is still a "UNI-Verse"

Therefore any ONE person who decides to be a conscious representative for this UNI-Verse would than be a GOD; but it would definitely be hard to be a representative for something you don't understand.

We are all manifestations of GOD in the Flesh, this is the point Jesus was trying to make, by no means does being GOD in the Flesh mean that you are special, it just represents the fact that a person has a strong connection to the UNI-Verse and a deep understanding of the mechanics of its manifestations and operations.

Originally posted by avriel
"Father why have you forsaken me ?"

I do not think the man was talking to himself, therefore I think that he must have been talking to some other entity.

doesnt this mean that gods spirit left the body...this was to allow christs flesh to die?

just a few things on God/Jesus






they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."

--MATTHEW 1:23
"...if ye believe not that I am he,
ye shall die in your sins."
--JESUS CHRIST, JOHN 8:24






God/Jesus

God never changes.
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus never changes.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.


God is the only Saviour.
"I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12

God our Saviour. Titus 2:10

...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10

God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

Jesus is the only Saviour.
...the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14

...our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18

...God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 1:1

...the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42

...the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4

a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11

Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
--Acts 4:12

...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
--2 Timothy 2:10

...captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings.
-- Heb 2:10

[Jesus]...author of eternal salvation...
-- Heb 5:9

God/Jesus

God created the universe and earth by Himself.
I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself. Isaiah 44:24

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1

Jesus Christ created the universe and the earth.
[U]nto the Son he saith...Thou, LORD, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands. Hebrews 1:10

[B]y him (Jesus) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth...all things were created by him, and for him. Colossians 1:16

All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. John 1:3

God/Jesus

God is the Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

Jesus is the Word.
...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14

God/Jesus

God is the first and the last.

I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4
Jesus is the first and the last.

Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17



God / Jesus

God forgives sins.
[T]he Lord..forgiveth all thine iniquities... Psalm 103:2-3

"[W]ho can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7
Jesus forgives sins.
Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5

God /Jesus

God is our redeemer.
[T]hou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer.. Isaiah 63:16
Jesus redeemed us.
[T]the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14

God Jesus
God is one.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deuteronomy 6:4
Jesus and God are one.

I and my Father are one. John 10:30

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us John 1:1, 3, 10, 14

Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

God has a Son.

[T]he LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Psalms 2:7
Jesus is God's Son.

... [Jesus] said also that God was his Father... John 5:18



God Jesus
God is the Holy One
Psalms 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth,O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.

Psalms 78:41 Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel.

Psalms 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.

Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (Messianic Psalm)
Jesus is the Holy One.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

3:13-14 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

13:34-35 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

God Jesus
Only God is worshipped.
... Then saith Jesus unto him... Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. Matthew 4:10
Jesus is worshipped.
While [Jesus] spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him... Matthew 9:18

And again, when [God] bringeth in the firstbegotten [Jesus] into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. Hebrews 1:6

well first off and i quote---''To me, The Four Gospels (who called themselves "Gospels") were Gnostics '' end quote.
By your own admission you say ''To Me'' and opinion you are entitled to even if it is erroneous

You say---''Matthew, Mark and Luke are not known for anything'' that seems a little oblivious to the fact they were each authors of 1 book of the new testament as well as disciples and apostles, I will have to assume you have an agenda as this is blatantly incorrect
in the opinion of many many scholars

this next bit is pure opinion, wrong and plain talking without knowledge---

''us, how can you not know where the favortism and racism towards the Jews are seen? Look into the Old Testament and part of the New. In the book of Acts, I believe it was Paul who sat with the Gentile and he said it was not common for a Jew to eat with a non jew. Paul replied, ....in my opinion God is no respector of man..meaning God sees no color.''


---and again you fail to mention any verse that one can look up to verify your incorrect statement
Paul was a Jew and loved Jews, thats why he disobeyed the Holy Spirit and went and preached the gospel to them in Jerusalem
and got locked up and eventually went to Rome in chains and was beheaded 2 years later

this part is opinion again, who cares what Christ looked like
the bible tells us there is one ONE one one RACE

BUT HERE IT IS and its off topic----But today, even through the Mel Gibson view of Christ, We have pictures of a Blonde and Blue eyed Christ when the bible gives a different discription. People will argue you to death about God being white and such. Does his color matter? No. But I'd like to see more accurate portrayals of biblical characters.


again off topic conjecture--you read the DA Vinci code and believed it didn't ya?---

Plus, it was around the King James era when they villanized Mary Magdalene and painted her as a harlot. Doesnt that seem strange that EVERY religious text about her portray her in a good light, where as painters and old generational priests say she was a temptress? Also, dont Catholics and some Baptist sets deny the right of women to preach? Christians are to follow the New Testaments, not the Old. Thats where confusion comes in.---


Catholics do a lot of things i do not agree with, but so what
again off topic

and here you blatantly attempt to Hijack a thread
quote---My question is, Are todays priests better han the Apostles who walked and talked with Jesus? Did he not tell them to spread the Word and take no gifts in payment?

off topic , what does this have to do with Christ in the flesh????


[edit on 7-5-2007 by tom_roberts]

more correctly.... Was Jesus a /the God of the Bible come to earth in human flesh.
Belivers say 'yes'....rational minded people say 'It does not compute'

there is a 2,000 year history & countless manhours used to convince
people that they cannot be certain the Jesus=Christ=God fabrication
is not true.

Originally posted by St Udio


more correctly.... Was Jesus a /the God of the Bible come to earth in human flesh.
Belivers say 'yes'....rational minded people say 'It does not compute'

there is a 2,000 year history & countless manhours used to convince
people that they cannot be certain the Jesus=Christ=God fabrication
is not true.

So you are saying people who believe in God are Irrational?

Originally posted by Judaz_Escariot
Sparky, John 3:16 was written by JOHN.

Remember, he wrote that around 120 years after Jesus' death. God and Jesus are like Father and Son due to the fact that he is the Word of God/ The Logos.

No major disagreement with you here, except I would putthe date closer to 98CE

I am a Christian, but I beleive in the Quran with the one fact. "How can God die when he is eternal?" On Judgement Day, he'll ask souls of different beliefs why they worshipped Jesus, Mary etc. and not God. When they respond 'Because they told us too.' He'll ask Jesus who'll be at his right side did he say to worship him and not the Lord and he'll respond "You know my words before I even say them. So you know I never told man to worship me because that's idolatry." And Mary the same question and such...

I agree that God did not die. Jesus and God are not the same being. JEsus did not resssurect himself. HE was dead for 3 days. Ecl 9:5 states that the dead are conscience of nothing at all. It was his Father who resurrected him to Spirit life and later exalted him with even greater glory that he had in his pre-human existance.

God had a son and his name was Adam. He came from God himslef and not from a womb. Ancients believe he was the greatest prophet because he spoke with his father frequently as a son does even after he was exiled from the garden.

There is no indication in the scriptures that God had any canversation with Adam after he was expelled from the Garden of Eden.
Perhaps in other ancient texts I am not familiar with.

Every miracle he performed was through the Father. So how could the father ask the Father for power? The entire 1 Corinthians 15 Chapter distinguishes Christ as the Lord of Earth and God the Ruler of both Heaven and Earth. So they are two different beings.

We are in full agreement here with regard to God as Ruler of Heaven & earth. However, in 1Cor 15 I do not see any specific statement that Jesus is Lord of the Earth, perhaps I missed it.

On Jesus descension to 'Prison' aka Hell, the first person he rescued was Adam because he was the greatest of all men, and in the Lords likeness.

I fail to find and referance to Adam being rescued from Hell is the scripture, perhaps this idea is based on the Koran?
Interesting none the less.

Originally posted by tom_roberts
also Jesus stated ''i and my Father are one''

I and my Father are one as well.

I and I are one.

Thine Kingdom mine; mine thus thine.

By the Grace this bread is my body.

I am,

Sri Oracle

Originally posted by tom_roberts
off topic , what does this have to do with Christ in the flesh????

Thread tittle, Is Jesus really God in the flesh?, can this be prove?

Or is just a matter of faith.