The Islamic Connection

Originally posted by Belinquest
Subsequent investigations have shown the Genesis account of the “Great Flood” and its hero, Noah, to be pure fiction. Much of the biblical story was plagiarized from older cultures such as Sumaria and Babylonia.

These are accounts from the blind that don't realize it is the same story. Yeah, Moses wrote it down later, but it happened eariler. The fact that the story is in Sumaria and Babylonia should be no shock as that is where Nimrod was king and civilization started after the flood.

Originally posted by adnanmuf
The ten plagues are found in a manuscript written in 1100 BC by a Egyptian monk mentioning the curses that came to Egypt because they did not heed an old sorcerer ( Moses) (The lamentations of Ersu) is the name of this manuscript it is on line.

All Egyptians vanished after Moses left because the curses CONTINUED.
After the loss of their army in the sea the Lybians who were other slaves became empowered and took over power in Egypt (the 20th dynasty) and they humiliated the Egyptians of Moses to complete annilation). That is why there was no reporter of the Exodus but the Israelites. Amazing

Libyans and Egypt had been at war since at least 2000 B.C.

20th Dynasty (about 1180 BC) Ramesses III celebrated several victories over the Libyans. They attacked Egypt in an alliance with the Sea-people.
Think about the dates.

www.digitalegypt.ucl.ac.uk...

First plague:

Water to Blood The Nile, every stream, every river, every pond, even water stored in vessels turns to blood. 7:19. (All verses from Exodus.)

First of all this would mean the loss of drinking water. The Bible notes this problem. 7:24. How does one transport the water from rivers and streams inland? The effort must be made to dig new wells, then transport it. This could not be done in any short time at all. We still have images of victims of Hurricane Katrina, and the water problem of New Orleans. This is in an industrialized nation, with motor vehicles, planes, boats, and organizations specifically designed to respond to these types of needs. We have stored water, and could transport water from other locations. ALL of the water in Egypt turned to blood. They had no reserves. There would be a loss of life due to dehydration.

Secondly, while there would be alternative drinking sources (milk, juice, even wine) concentration would be placed on re-obtaining water itself. This would bring any industry to a halt, as people would be concentrating on the water problem, and not the work at hand.

But most important would be the loss of marine life. The fish (and other sea creatures) died. 7:21. Later, this will have in impact as to a food source. Environmental water systems, such as rivers, ponds and streams, have a necessary balance. By wiping out all of the fish, this balance would be irrevocably upset. It is not as if the blood turned back to water, and fish all of a sudden re-appeared. They were gone. It would take decades, if ever, for marine life to replenish and re-habit the rivers.

Birds that relied upon the fish for food would migrate or die. Crocodiles that relied upon the birds and fish for food would look to alternative sources. Every creature, dependent on marine life, would find alternatives, leave, or die.

And we are only on the first plague!

Pharaoh pursues the Hebrews with all of his army, all the chariots and horsemen (where DO those horses keep coming from?), and his captains.

What do we see when reviewing the Egyptian history? Nothing. Not a thing. No massive graves. Egyptian goods stay in Egypt. The military remains a powerful force. Marine life, harvest, livestock all remain as they were.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by Belinquest
Subsequent investigations have shown the Genesis account of the “Great Flood” and its hero, Noah, to be pure fiction. Much of the biblical story was plagiarized from older cultures such as Sumaria and Babylonia.

These are accounts from the blind that don't realize it is the same story. Yeah, Moses wrote it down later, but it happened eariler. The fact that the story is in Sumaria and Babylonia should be no shock as that is where Nimrod was king and civilization started after the flood.

It can have only happened at Noah's time!

Therefore the Flood falls within a period of history known as the "Bronze Age," which dates from about 3,000 B.C. to 1,200 B.C.


We read in Chapter 7 of Genesis verses 19 & 20:

"And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered."

From these verses many say the Flood was worldwide, and that the tops of the highest mountains (about 29,000 feet) were covered with 15 cubits (about 22 feet) of water. This means the water level would have been five miles above the present sea level.

www.ensignmessage.com...


I just cannot find any record of the moment when the entire Egyptian civilization (about 2 million people) was wiped out.

I cannot explain how Egypt was reconstituted with the original language, religion, culture, economy, etc., with no gap.

Remember, we're not talking about war, famine, invasion, exile, weapons of mass destruction, etc.

We're talking about the whole country underwater for months with everyone dead. Then a handful of Noah's descendants, from a different culture, speaking a different language, with a different religion, reconstitute everything, including the population, and no one refers to it.

The Pharaoh of Mos4es was Ramesses III in the 20th dynasty. However the egyptians became slaves to the lybians After Ramesses III, the 21st dynasty kings were the Lybians. The last part of the 20th dynasty from Ramesees 4 to Ramesses 11 were the downside of the Egyptians. The lamentations were written in that period there was a mention of rivers turned into blood, the slaves became masters, the people buried their brothers that there was no coffins left, the darkness that nobody can see his own hand!

So it happened and to be exact the Exodus in the year 1150 BC, 40 years in wilderness, then 1110 BC the conquering of Canaan, 1000 BC King David and Solomon.
Moses was born in the year 5 of the king Merneptah ( who was the 23 son of Ramesses the Great, but his sister was married to Ramesses ( a previous queen and the eldest child alive) so she was higher than Merneptah ( in the family) and she was the Priestess of Amon. She found Moses in the river and Merneptah dared do nothing, She had higher plans, she wanted her SON! to take over Egypt using his hevrew as his soldiers. Moses did not obey his mother demand after she died He was about to become tyrant when he killed an egyptian to avenge a jew but he decided in the last minute to run away and explore the world. He was very educated and did not want to be a tyrant, but he could have become one easy so when he hesitated another general made a Coop etcat and became king Start of the 20th dynasty , the new king wanted Moses dead or alive and this king increased work on the jews and his son was bad too( Ramesses III) In the year of his Jubilee ( 30 yea) Moses came back to Egypt, and the rest is history.

Originally posted by adnanmuf

So it happened and to be exact the Exodus in the year 1150 BC, 40 years in wilderness, then 1110 BC the conquering of Canaan, 1000 BC King David and Solomon.

No Pharaoh mentioned in Exodus, you are using your faith instead of using your reason.

You're just making all this up, aren't you? There -is- no evidence that you can produce that would indicate that the plagues ever happened, right?

You've invented a time line that fits with criteria you like so that you get a story that works for you. Your story doesn't work for me, because of the way you've cherry-picked your data.

So, drop away your conjecture, drop away your timeline and answer two simple questions.

Why is there no record of the biblical plagues in Egypt?

Why did the Israelites not name the Pharaoh of Exodus?

If the book is supposed to be a factual account, the Pharaoh's name is a critical bit of information that -should- be there. And, if this stuff happened, not even a heretical Pharaoh being erased would have gotten rid of even a casual mention of the plagues hitting so violently, spectacularly, and in such rapid succession.

No evidence of 2 1/2 million people wandering in the desert. No people.

No evidence of plagues. No plagues.

You are talking about the death of all the Egyptian cattle and all their first-born children. There is no evidence, circumstantial or otherwise for this.

You have no evidence for the plagues or the wandering in the wilderness.
In fact, you have no evidence for the presence of large numbers of Hebrews in Egypt and that time.

It was a major occurrence. If you want to go for a government cover-up, why don't we see big proclamations to the Egyptian people that explains, in an Egyptian context, -why- all the first born and cattle just died suddenly, or why the Nile and all water turned to blood suddenly?

1) No evidence for the departure of 2.5 million people.

2) No evidence for the slaying of the first born.

3) No evidence for massive livestock deaths or crop destruction (famine).

4) It didn't happen.

And with regards to Solomon, that is another fairy tale which the Jews are so good at spinning

The archaeological evidence in Jerusalem for the famous building projects of Solomon is nonexistent.
19th and early 20th century excavations around the Temple Mount in Jerusalem failed to identify even a trace of Solomon's fabled Temple or palace complex."
(Finkelstein, Silberman, p128)

In the 1950s, Yigael Yadin – Israeli Defense Chief of Staff turned archaeologist – decided that the ruins of Megiddo, Hazor and Gezer were the legendary 'Fortress Cities' of Solomon.
"Our great guide was the Bible" he said. Thus he confirmed the Bible with the Bible.
This was despite an absence of any find at the sites naming Solomon – but a cartouche naming Pharaoh Amenhotep III instead!
Destruction of the sites was attributed to 'Yahweh's instrument' – the 8th century Assyrians. But the Arameans beat them to it, before themselves succumbing to the Assyrians in 811 BC.
Jeroboam II (788 - 747 BC), an Assyrian client king of Israel, rebuilt Megiddo, Gezer and Hazor and presided over the last period of Israel's prosperity. His reign helped to colour the legend of 'Solomon', written in the 7th century.

The real Solomon:
"I ascended the Lebanon Mountains and cut down the mighty beams of cedar.
At that time I carried those cedars from Lebanon and at the gate of the temple
of Shulmânu, my lord, I laid them down.
The old temple which Shalmaneser, my father, had built, had become decrepit, and I, in my skill, rebuilt that temple from its foundations to its pinnacles.
The beams of cedar from Lebanon I laid on it.
When this temple becomes old and decrepit, may a future prince renew its decrepit parts and return the inscription to its place."

Shalmaneser III (859-824 BC) was named for the god Shulmânu-Asharêd ("shulmânu is foremost").

Shalmânu is the Assyrian equivalent of Suleiman and thus Solomon.

I just told you the evidence is the (Lamentations of Ipuur) you can find it online.
The guy Ipuur was a monk who was lamenting the egyptians for not heeding for the old man Sorcerer( must be Moses) and mentioning the disasters that befell the Egyptians among those disasters he mentions the water turning blood and the sky black that a person can not see his own hand, and the death of so many people!
wasen't the last plague the death of every first son in all egyptians ( how much is that ) in one day.

The bible is supposed to be the word of God, Why would God mention Pharaoh by his name as If he is a great person! That pharaoh was evil and gone to hell good greif.
Pharaoh wordwas mentioned I guess. Ramesses III was the last great Pharaoh and you would expect that the pharaoh of Moses be him or one after him not before Him right?
God punished the egyptians so no great king would have come after that!?
The 21 dynasty goddess was Beset instead of Amon the god of the Golden Age of the egyptians (18-20 dynasty) it is even said that the religion of Amon moved to the Kingdom of the Ethiopians , But king Solomon insulted that religion by forcing Queen Sheba to make vist to him (.

King Solomon was the first International power. He sent letter of threats to all kingdoms in the world, they all heeded him and sent him gifts ( the origin of King Solomon treasures). There is evidence in King David a word (Beith David ) inscribed by a moabite king in reference to David kingdom.
Also the Israel Stella clearly mentions that King Merneptah in his fifth year punished the Israelites by ( leaving them with no seed) seed means born children. it is the exact year Moses was born 1218 BC) exodus is 1150 BC( date of Death of Ramesses iii) ( Moses was 70 years old ) 30 years in desert adter that we come to 1110 BC very simple.

Originally posted by adnanmuf
I just told you the evidence is the (Lamentations of Ipuur) you can find it online.

Google search response:

Your search - Lamentations of Ipuur - did not match any documents

Originally posted by adnanmuf
The bible is supposed to be the word of God, Why would God mention Pharaoh by his name as If he is a great person! That pharaoh was evil and gone to hell good greif.
Pharaoh wordwas mentioned I guess. Ramesses III was the last great Pharaoh and you would expect that the pharaoh of Moses be him or one after him not before Him right?
God punished the egyptians so no great king would have come after that!?
The 21 dynasty goddess was Beset instead of Amon the god of the Golden Age of the egyptians (18-20 dynasty) it is even said that the religion of Amon moved to the Kingdom of the Ethiopians , But king Solomon insulted that religion by forcing Queen Sheba to make vist to him (.

King Solomon was the first International power. He sent letter of threats to all kingdoms in the world, they all heeded him and sent him gifts ( the origin of King Solomon treasures). There is evidence in King David a word (Beith David ) inscribed by a moabite king in reference to David kingdom.
Also the Israel Stella clearly mentions that King Merneptah in his fifth year punished the Israelites by ( leaving them with no seed) seed means born children. it is the exact year Moses was born 1218 BC) exodus is 1150 BC( date of Death of Ramesses iii) ( Moses was 70 years old ) 30 years in desert adter that we come to 1110 BC very simple.

The Bible is not supposed to be the word of God, are thinking of the Quran? The Bible was written by various rabbis over a long period of time.

www.theology.edu...

In Genesis alone there are 67 contradictions and 89 absurdities.

In my posts I tried to give you checkable facts but you keep giving me uncheckable legends.

The Egyptian historical records are relatively complete, there is no mention of a catastrophic event like the 10 plagues.

If God exists, then we must bear witness to the fact He has given us our senses, reason, and intelligence. Not to make use of His gifts is like blaspheming.

Sorry it is the Lamentations of Ipuwer, here is a link to a rabbi against that the manuscript is of the ten plagues but you don't have to believe him . use your mind.>>>
www.daatemet.org.il...

In the manuscript written in the 19-20 dynasty, a Priest of AMON is actually conversing with (((THe God most Hight) not Amon but the topGod.
He mentions the calamities that befell the Egyptians and mentions the rivers turning into blood and the death on large scale and the society turning upside down ( The slave (lybians becoming masters and rich while the Egyptians going down).
So exodus happened.
Also remember the story about findings in the Red sea Agaba where they found lots of wheels covering the sea bottom! ( between Sinai and Saudia)

Some parts of the bible is the literal word of God,.
I am excellent in Arabic and when I deciphered the ancient hebrew script of the bible I found it miraculous like the Quran, that it is so poetic that could not be made by man.

If you won't believe in God unless if he gives a sheer evidence then there is no need for judgement day. You are supposed to believe based on massengers from God, God sent thousands of them to all nations, no nation doesn't know about the top God (even in the Amazon they heard about him from their historical folklore).

Plus how do you know that your reasoning is the way to the truth.
You should be complete to reason perfectly, but you are not complete so your reasoning is worthless.

Originally posted by Belinquest
We're talking about the whole country underwater for months with everyone dead. Then a handful of Noah's descendants, from a different culture, speaking a different language, with a different religion, reconstitute everything, including the population, and no one refers to it.

You seem very confused. What religion was Noah? What religion was Nimrod? Is Nimrod Osiris?

The flood story is all over the earth in ancient cultures.

As to dates...........there is plenty of evicence that the timeline has been intentionally distorted..........I wonder why.

The reason there is different languages came from the confusion at Babel. All just as the Bible says.


If you are interested in the truth, I suggest you take 10 minutes to research whether Osiris is Zeus. When you find that he is.....then what? It's a completely different culture. Why???? What's going on??????

[edit on 20-5-2007 by Sun Matrix]

If you want to see the Flood it is on the map.
Just look at the geographical map between Aral sea Caspian sea and Black sea.
The land mass look like it was drained in a huge plug, you can see the sediment going east west towerd the black sea.
This happened 4 or 5000 BC ( 7000 years ago).
Noah was European (Caucasian race) blue eyes and everything European. He and his wife were only saved and he preached the religion of one god. The left over of his race the Goths (gog and Magog The caucasian race ran to the high land in the North (Scania) and settled there untill they decided to come back to their original homeland in central Asia (Berik voyage Berick the BearWolf), from them the Scythians came who invaded Europe in 500 AD and in 1500 AD invaded Europe and the four corners of the earth (Australia, South Africa, Alask, Siberia) , and here we are in this time.

Originally posted by adnanmuf
Sorry it is the Lamentations of Ipuwer, here is a link to a rabbi against that the manuscript is of the ten plagues but you don't have to believe him . use your mind.>>>
www.daatemet.org.il...

In the manuscript written in the 19-20 dynasty, a Priest of AMON is actually conversing with (((THe God most Hight) not Amon but the topGod.
He mentions the calamities that befell the Egyptians and mentions the rivers turning into blood and the death on large scale and the society turning upside down ( The slave (lybians becoming masters and rich while the Egyptians going down).
So exodus happened.

The link you have provided confirms that what I was saying is correct!
You haven't bothered to read the conclusion or the text.

I quote from the text in the link:

""You can read more on Wikipedia, in Letter to Rabbi: Historical impossibility of the Exodus, the Sinai Revelation and conquest of Canaan, and the Hofesh website (where you will find a Hebrew translation of the papyrus text). Note the date of its writing (the 18th century BCE) and that of the Exodus, according to Jewish tradition (1310 BCE) and the debate over whether it represents historical fact or a literary creation (lamentation). ""

""this is another example of the fact that Biblical stories are based in the cultural legacy of the ancient Middle East (like the story of the Great Flood). The authors did not "make up" the stories, they just linked lamentations, legends, and legacies and added them into the history they were inventing for the Jewish nation.""

And it concludes:

""Since this is a lamentation which does not describe the ten plagues and does not describe miracles, how much more so is it clear that we (Hebrews) never left Egypt and there never were ten plagues and that we never received the Torah at Sinai.""

So neither Exodus nor the Flood happened.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

You seem very confused. What religion was Noah? What religion was Nimrod? Is Nimrod Osiris?

I must be confused, what religion was Noah or Nimrod, why don't you surprise me with your superior knowledge ?
I am always keen to learn.

The flood story is all over the earth in ancient cultures.
As to dates...........there is plenty of evicence that the timeline has been intentionally distorted..........I wonder why.

Please show me where the evidence is.

If you are interested in the truth, I suggest you take 10 minutes to research whether Osiris is Zeus. When you find that he is.....then what? It's a completely different culture. Why???? What's going on??????

Why don't you just tell me, I am sure you have a good reason to believe what you believe?

Originally posted by adnanmuf
If you won't believe in God unless if he gives a sheer evidence then there is no need for judgement day. You are supposed to believe based on massengers from God, God sent thousands of them to all nations, no nation doesn't know about the top God (even in the Amazon they heard about him from their historical folklore).

Plus how do you know that your reasoning is the way to the truth.
You should be complete to reason perfectly, but you are not complete so your reasoning is worthless.

Gods have many names, which one do you think is the correct one?

Allah


the word El in Genesis referes to the name of God . It could be read El Al All Allah Ellah Ela Elah Ellah.
But since muslims read it Allah and in the bible and NT also Allah :
Kingdom of God is read "Malakut-i-Allah" and in Psalms.
However if your current religion doesn't know the name of God then it is a false religion .

Originally posted by adnanmuf
Allah

the word El in Genesis referes to the name of God . It could be read El Al All Allah Ellah Ela Elah Ellah.
But since muslims read it Allah and in the bible and NT also Allah :
Kingdom of God is read "Malakut-i-Allah" and in Psalms.
However if your current religion doesn't know the name of God then it is a false religion .

Sunni, Shia, Wahab, Sufi?

You have forgotten the possibility of Al Ilah?

The Messanger (Rasul) father's name was Abdullah; Abdullah means servant of God.
Which God was the Messanger's father serving?

The name Allah is not the improvising of Muhammad the Prophet of Islam as you would like to imply.
Al-Ilah means (The God ) and it has nothing to do with Allah.
Allah is not an Arabic word.
and could not be grammaterized according to Arabic grammer.
Every Arabic word have to be returned to the original (F A L) root. If the word could not be returned to the root then it is not Arabic word. IOt is that simple.
So Allah can not be returned to any root word ( for example Aliha) because Allah is not Al-Elah, because you can not in Arabic get rid of any of the root letters of the root word and so Al-Elah can not become Allah by any Arabic grammer measure.

Allah word was found in Ancient manuscripts predating Arabs by thouthands of years ( The Word El which orientalists and Jews like to read it this way even though the word is clealy made of A ( Alef) and L. You can however read AL as El only if it is not the name of the Main Diesty but you meana God ( like Elah, for Example The Devil is The Elah of his worshippers).
However in the list of Gods found in a tablet in Ancient Ebla civilization ) at the top is written Al then second line was written Shmsh the god of Shmsh ( meaning Shams the God representing the Sun and So On.
While Al (El) was nothing written next to it so why wouldf you read it as El is beyond me ( the Orientalsits and archaeologists are pro Talmudic people Ibelieve).
So back to your question People from ancient times known the Major diety as Al ( Allah in Arabic or El if you are an orientalist paid by a jewish bank)

Arabs believed in Allah as the major diety before Islam but they worshiped other Gods ( as the Angels of God ) to get closer to God, however Islam and Christianity and Judaism considered that Blasphemy and paganism ( The ten commandment) God ( Allah does not accept it)

Hopr I answered your question.