For all you who hate the USA

Originally posted by redseal

So true, so true!!!!!!!!

Im not saying that some of there accusations and ill faded views about america are false.. America is far from perfect.. But same is true for any nation. What chaps my ass is when ppl focus mainly on the bad things about the US.. As if america is full of evil and can do no good.. OUR NATIONAL INTEREST COME FIRST JUST AS ANY OTHER NATIONS INTERESTS! You dont have to like it.. But there is a reason why its called NATIONAL INTERESTS! It may or may not directly benefit you..

The 04 asian tsunamis... We all remember that right?..Who was the nation that was called upon and EXPECTED to send its naval assets and well as civilan assets to help restore hope to the countless villages that had been hit by this rogue wave? THE US OF A! And what was our thanks from the international community?.."Your not providing enough aid(money)? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME?! What the hell was china and russia, france, germany, britain etc doing? Did they ride in on a white horse and steal the show? What the hell did they do thats was "so special" DID I MISS SOMETHING HERE? America is under appreciated. People expect more from us then they do themselves. Its quite flattering..really, it is.. but it comes with to much flak. The US is under the proverbial microscope that is the world.. We cant so much as take a sh!t with out the rest of the world bitching about the smell...we try and do the honorable thing and light a scented candle maybe even turn on a fan to help kill the stink..well there goes the world.. We have just started global warming...AMERICAS FAULT! We're a classic example of being "damned if we do, and damned if we dont". We cannot win in these ppls eyes. Jealousy? Envy? Hate? Love? These are the views that these ppl share in regards to the US. Americans arrogant? Why is it just americans? This is what I find funny... Americans are not aliens from some far away planet..we are humans just like anyone else on this planet..yet we are the only ones who are perceived as being ignorant and arrogant? HAH!! What makes you ppl so damn special? Is that not ignorant and arrogant to judge others before tending to your own first? Is that hypocrisy I smell?

Moral of the story is those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones..Even if the neighbors house is much bigger then your own and more tempting.



[edit on 113131p://1505pm by semperfoo]

Originally posted by neformore

As for my "piss-ant" nation, at the moment its buying up US companies because your economy is so poor, and your nation rode on our global political reputation to help legitimise the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Furthermore we've just seen the political end of one of the most violent terrorist struggles the world has ever seen.

And what companies would those be? the US is manufacturing more then it ever has in its history.. Meanwhile the DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL is standing at a record high which it has been constantly breaking for the past few weeks. A Housing Bust would effect the US economy obviously.. The effect of this could be similar to the stock-market crash that contributed to the 2001 recession, but as the housing decline is already 1 year on, if a recession does not occur by the end of 2007, the US economy will have successfully digested this correction without a recession. This is a once-in-a-lifetime occurance, just like the dot-com bubble was. And i dont need to go on my rant about how resilient the US economy is and has been in the past do I?

And heres a better in depth analysis of the US economy that I posted in another thread..

As for the US economy. The index of the industrial production is up 30% over the past 10 years, its up 81% over the past 20 years.

Then we're told that china, japan and other countrys are stealing all of our high tech, well guess what? the index of production of high tech is up 735% over the past 10 years. its up 7000% over the past 20 years.

Then we're told that all of our jobs are being outsourced.... Well, guess what... Civilian employment in this country (which is at another record high at 4.4% now) increased by 17.6 million over the last 10years, and 34.7 million over the past 20 years. And then finally, real GDP is up 35% over the last 10 years, and 83% over the last 20 years..

Just to help you out here, our nations deficit is actually shrinking. The budget deficit now stands at about 1.4 percent of the nation's GDP, well below the 2.3 percent that's been the norm since 1970's. And in 2008, the US deficit as percentage of GDP is projected to be at 0.7%.. I see a strong rapidly expanding economy...

[edit on 113131p://2905pm by semperfoo]

Originally posted by semperfoo

Originally posted by neformore

As for my "piss-ant" nation, at the moment its buying up US companies because your economy is so poor, and your nation rode on our global political reputation to help legitimise the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Furthermore we've just seen the political end of one of the most violent terrorist struggles the world has ever seen.

And what companies would those be? the US is manufacturing more then it ever has in its history.. Meanwhile the DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL is standing at a record high which it has been constantly breaking for the past few weeks. A Housing Bust would effect the US economy obviously.. The effect of this could be similar to the stock-market crash that contributed to the 2001 recession, but as the housing decline is already 1 year on, if a recession does not occur by the end of 2007, the US economy will have successfully digested this correction without a recession. This is a once-in-a-lifetime occurance, just like the dot-com bubble was. And i dont need to go on my rant about how resilient the US economy is and has been in the past do I?

[edit on 113131p://2305pm by semperfoo]

This isn't true about the manufacturing. Mostly we are buying the majority of it from China and other foreign countries. The reason why our economy is doing so good is because China is keeping us afloat backing our dollar. We spend too much as people in this country. So many manufacturing plants have been shut down in record numbers all over the country. You need to do your homework before you speak on that one.

The Dow Jones was on a high before the great crash. And the same thing is likely to happen. And I hate to tell you but the housing market isn't looking good in select areas. Alot of people are just hanging on by a thread.

And if China declined to pay our I.O.U., you would be in the breadline like the rest of us. Because our currency wouldn't be worth a damn.

BTW,did you see how much the dollar is worth? You won't hear that on the news.

What you basically are doing is just running off the latest talking points. But when you really look at the "NUMBERS" and see the average wage that someone is making, it's not looking good at all.

To put it in perspective a family in the fifties could raise their family and work year around with 2 weeks paid vacation and have enough to send their children to college. But now it's drastically different. 2 weeks vacation has become mythical for the majority who aren't wealthy.
As for the college tuition, that's become a myth as well for alot of people who want to go. A weary working class close to burn out or burning out as we speak as a workforce in this country. Near complete exhaustion to be able to deal with the economic blunders that the free market system has brought to our country. Look what India and China and Japan are doing to us. They are smashing us into the ground

My friend, you are living in a induced hallucination brought on by pride and a rampant surge of American nationalism. The same symptoms that happened in Germany/Russia/Italy are happening in this country. Eventually you won't be able to run with the truth staring right at you.

The evidence is in and this country is hurting. Sorry,Semper.


P.S. that flag you are waving isn't made in America. It's made in china.









[edit on 20-5-2007 by MRGERBIK]

And here's some more devastating facts to America's ego for you:


How much do we owe in debt,Semper? Try over 10 trillion


link:
www.boston.com...

US federal debt reached $11.4 trillion in late 2006. Of that amount, $3.2 trillion — or 28 percent — is held by foreigners. How much does the US government have to spend each year just on interest payments to its foreign creditors?

A. More than 1 percent of US gross domestic product

B.More than $1 for every American, every day of the year

C.More than combined spending on child nutrition, food stamps, and foster care

D. All of the above

A. More than 1 percent of US gross domestic product is correct. With high levels of borrowing and rising interest rates, US interest payments on foreign-held debt are estimated to have grown to $125 billion in 2006, according to Bank of America. That figure is equivalent to about 1 percent of the total size of the entire gross domestic product of the United States, the world's largest economy.

B. More than $1 for every American, every day of the year is correct. In total, interest payments on US government debt held by foreign investors reached $113.6 billion in 2005, the last year for which official data are available.


C. More than combined spending on child nutrition, food stamps, and foster care is correct.

Since 2000, international investors have bought some $4.6 trillion in US securities, including US Treasury securities and so-called "agency securities" issued or guaranteed by a variety of other government-related entities. That sum is more than triple the cumulative level of the 1990s and carries sizable interest payments.

In fact, the interest paid to foreigners in 2005 was nearly 44 percent more than the $76 billion that the US federal government spent on child nutrition, food stamps, foster care, and family support combined.

D. All of the above is correct.

All told, interest payments on all government debt are one of the fastest-growing government outlays. In fact, they are now the sixth-largest category in the US budget.

Net interest payments on debt held by investors both at home and abroad are expected to reach a staggering $261.3 billion in fiscal year 2008, an amount close to half the sum currently spent on Social Security or defense. In contrast, the United States spent only $175.9 billion on net interest as recently as 2003.

Let's talk about the overbloated excessive amount of money on defense for America. Since most Conservatives and American nationalists like to skip over that. We aint skipping over it though.

www.independent.org...

The Trillion-Dollar Defense Budget Is Already Here March 15, 2007 Robert Higgs

When President George W. Bush presented his budget proposals recently for the fiscal year 2008, he emphasized that the nation’s security is his highest priority, and he backed up that declaration by proposing that the Pentagon’s outlays be increased by more than 6 percent beyond its estimated outlays for fiscal 2007, to a total of more than $583 billion. Although many Americans regard this enormous sum as excessive, hardly anyone appreciates that the total amount of all defense-related spending greatly exceeds the amount budgeted for the Department of Defense. Indeed, it is roughly almost twice as large.

In the fiscal year 2006, which ended last September, the Pentagon spent $499.4 billion. Lodged elsewhere in the budget, however, other lines identify funding that serves defense purposes just as surely as—sometimes even more surely than—the money allocated to the Department of Defense. On occasion, commentators take note of some of these additional defense-related budget items, such as the Department of Energy’s nuclear-weapons programs, but many such items, including some extremely large ones, remain generally unrecognized.

Since the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, many observers probably would agree that its budget ought to be included in any complete accounting of defense costs. After all, the homeland is what most of us want the government to defend in the first place.

Other agencies also spend money in pursuit of homeland security. The Justice Department, for example, includes the Federal Bureau of Investigation, which devotes substantial resources to an anti-terrorist program. The Department of the Treasury informs us that it has “worked closely with the Departments of State and Justice and the intelligence community to disrupt targets related to al Qaeda, Hizballah, Jemaah Islamiyah, as well as to disrupt state sponsorship of terror.”

Much, if not all, of the budget for the Department of State and for international assistance programs ought to be classified as defense-related, too. In this case, the money serves to buy off potential enemies and to reward friendly governments who assist U.S. efforts to abate perceived threats. About $4.5 billion of annual U.S. foreign aid currently takes the form of “foreign military financing,” and even funds placed under the rubric of economic development may serve defense-related purposes indirectly. Money is fungible, and the receipt of foreign assistance for economic-development projects allows allied governments to divert other funds to police, intelligence, and military purposes.

Two big budget items represent the current cost of defense goods and services obtained in the past. The Department of Veterans Affairs, which is authorized to spend more than $72 billion in the current fiscal year, falls in this category. Likewise, a great deal of the government’s interest expense on publicly held debt represents the current cost of defense outlays financed in the past by borrowing from the public.

To estimate the size of the entire de facto defense budget, I gathered data for fiscal 2006, the most recently completed fiscal year, for which data on actual outlays are now available. In that year, the Department of Defense itself spent $499.4 billion. Defense-related parts of the Department of Energy budget added $16.6 billion. The Department of Homeland Security spent $69.1 billion. The Department of State and international assistance programs laid out $25.3 billion for activities arguably related to defense purposes either directly or indirectly. The Department of Veterans Affairs had outlays of $69.8 billion. The Department of the Treasury, which funds the lion’s share of military retirement costs through its support of the little-known Military Retirement Fund, added $38.5 billion. A large part of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration’s outlays ought to be regarded as defense-related, if only indirectly so. When all of these other parts of the budget are added to the budget for the Pentagon itself, they increase the fiscal 2006 total by nearly half again, to $728.2 billion.

To find out how much of the government’s net interest payments on publicly held national debt ought to be attributed to past debt-funded defense spending requires a considerable amount of calculation. I added up all past deficits (minus surpluses) since 1916 (when the debt was nearly zero), prorated according to each year’s ratio of narrowly defined national security spending—military, veterans, and international affairs—to total federal spending, expressing everything in dollars of constant purchasing power. This sum is equal to 91.2 percent of the value of the national debt held by the public at the end of 2006.

Therefore, I attribute that same percentage of the government’s net interest outlays in that year to past debt-financed defense spending. The total amount so attributed comes to $206.7 billion.

Adding this interest component to the previous all-agency total, the grand total comes to $934.9 billion, which is more than 87 percent greater than the Pentagon’s outlays alone.

If the additional elements of defense spending continue to maintain the same ratio to the Pentagon’s amount—and we have every reason to suppose they will—then in fiscal year 2007, through which we are now passing, the grand total spent for defense will be $1.028 trillion. I confirmed the rough accuracy of this forecast by adding up the government’s own estimates of fiscal 2007 outlays for the various additional defense-related items, obtaining a total of $987 billion—an amount only 4 percent less than my ratio-based estimate. Future defense-related supplemental appropriations for fiscal 2007, which would hardly be surprising, might easily bring the lower estimate up the higher one.

Although I have arrived at my conclusions honestly and carefully, I may have left out items that should have been included—the federal budget is a gargantuan, complex, and confusing collection of documents. If I have done so, however, the left-out items are not likely

Here's a Piechart to put it in perspective of who does hate America and that's why we are choking it to death in debt but it isn't because of social security or because of those lazy immigrants. Those are called "SCAPE GOATS"

Let's look statistically in a chart illustration who spends the most,shall we?









here's some more reality for playbook conservatives









Pay attention to the unknown 15 percent. That's 15 percent not known what is spent on. And some of you have the audacity to think America is number 1 in Finances and Economy . Suckers, there's one born every minute.











[edit on 21-5-2007 by MRGERBIK]

Originally posted by redseal

...The $30 an hour part was proving a point, That people can make it! Its not a benchmark for someone to strive to, go ahead make more, if you do, I'm all for it!! By the way $30 an hour in the USA is in about the top %20 of incomes, and I'm only 28 years old, were you their at 28??

Originally posted by shearder
Yes

Originally posted by redseal
doubt it

We won’t debate this as it adds nothing to the thread – I don’t know you and you don’t know me.

Originally posted by redseal
Why are your morals better than mine? Is this based on you perception of the world? again yours vs. mine!

Nope, not at all and I do not insinuate anything of the sort. The installation of morals really does not, as far as I am concerned, have anything to do with the perception of the world by me or anyone. I do believe, however, that there are a number of very basic morals that one should instil in their kids. i.e. caring, empathy towards their fellow man, honesty, integrity etc. There are others which, and I don’t believe this is perception, that are perhaps instilled based on ones circumstances and way of life, culture dependencies etc. Not everyone will have the same, but again, there are the basics and that in no way means mine ae better than yours and visa versa. Integrity is integrity no matter what culture/country one is in.

Originally posted by redseal
Sorry, I dont talk world events with my kids. We watch barney and singalong songs and so forth, Their is no need to talk to a 3 yr old about the world events.

And I 100% agree with you. They should remain kids and do kid things - talking politics with a 3yr old is worlds apart from instilling moral values. I don’t see where talking politics to your kids came up an I would never suggest it. I assume (which is bad) it came about based on how people “see” the US. This is not something a kid would care about or understand. Hope I made sense here.

Originally posted by MRGERBIK

Originally posted by semperfoo

Originally posted by neformore

As for my "piss-ant" nation, at the moment its buying up US companies because your economy is so poor, and your nation rode on our global political reputation to help legitimise the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq. Furthermore we've just seen the political end of one of the most violent terrorist struggles the world has ever seen.

And what companies would those be? the US is manufacturing more then it ever has in its history.. Meanwhile the DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL is standing at a record high which it has been constantly breaking for the past few weeks. A Housing Bust would effect the US economy obviously.. The effect of this could be similar to the stock-market crash that contributed to the 2001 recession, but as the housing decline is already 1 year on, if a recession does not occur by the end of 2007, the US economy will have successfully digested this correction without a recession. This is a once-in-a-lifetime occurance, just like the dot-com bubble was. And i dont need to go on my rant about how resilient the US economy is and has been in the past do I?

[edit on 113131p://2305pm by semperfoo]

This isn't true about the manufacturing. Mostly we are buying the majority of it from China and other foreign countries. The reason why our economy is doing so good is because China is keeping us afloat backing our dollar. We spend too much as people in this country. So many manufacturing plants have been shut down in record numbers all over the country. You need to do your homework before you speak on that one.

The Dow Jones was on a high before the great crash. And the same thing is likely to happen. And I hate to tell you but the housing market isn't looking good in select areas. Alot of people are just hanging on by a thread.

And if China declined to pay our I.O.U., you would be in the breadline like the rest of us. Because our currency wouldn't be worth a damn.

BTW,did you see how much the dollar is worth? You won't hear that on the news.

What you basically are doing is just running off the latest talking points. But when you really look at the "NUMBERS" and see the average wage that someone is making, it's not looking good at all.

To put it in perspective a family in the fifties could raise their family and work year around with 2 weeks paid vacation and have enough to send their children to college. But now it's drastically different. 2 weeks vacation has become mythical for the majority who aren't wealthy.
As for the college tuition, that's become a myth as well for alot of people who want to go. A weary working class close to burn out or burning out as we speak as a workforce in this country. Near complete exhaustion to be able to deal with the economic blunders that the free market system has brought to our country. Look what India and China and Japan are doing to us. They are smashing us into the ground

My friend, you are living in a induced hallucination brought on by pride and a rampant surge of American nationalism. The same symptoms that happened in Germany/Russia/Italy are happening in this country. Eventually you won't be able to run with the truth staring right at you.

The evidence is in and this country is hurting. Sorry,Semper.


P.S. that flag you are waving isn't made in America. It's made in china.

Actually the dollar has been rebounding as of late against the british sterling pound ($1.96vs british pound) and the euro ($1.34 down from $1.37). the dolllar is MUCH stronger then the Japaneses Yen as well as other asian currency whom we just so happen to do most of our trading with. Not to mention how long the dollar has been johnny on the spot. The dollar has been a strong currency who has lagged behind currencys in the past.. Example, do you know how well the dollar did in the 70's against other european currency's like germanys and so on and so forth? People have been saying the same thing you are now through the past several decades...

As for the US shipping everything off shore.. Did you know that ROBOTS are one of the main culprits for lost jobs for americans? Cant send those manufacturers overseas as it would be pointless. This also can put smaller buisnesss competitors out of business.

Another point worth the mention is that JAPAN (as in NOT China) is our nations largest financier. Without the US the world economy folds like a house of cards. In the end no one would gain much from such an unlikey scenario.

And I am with you on the workforce part... Americans work and work and work way to much and get less and less time off work IMO. But the bills must be paid.

PS.. That flag that I can by for $0.99 looks and works just as good as any flag regardless of where it was made. This also helps the world economy stay afloat.

[edit on 063131p://0705pm by semperfoo]

Originally posted by MRGERBIK
And here's some more devastating facts to America's ego for you:


How much do we owe in debt,Semper? Try over 10 trillion

I dont disagree with you. I think we both can agree on the fact that we need to get our spending under control. But there is a there is a LEGITIMATE point to be made, when one talks about deficits and debt, as a PER CENT of GDP. Remember that...

US deficit is shrinking, for now
www.csmonitor.com...

PS.. That flag that I can by for $0.99 looks and works just as good as any flag regardless of where it was made. This also helps the world economy stay afloat.

[edit on 063131p://0705pm by semperfoo]

There's a problem with what you just said. How much of Walmart's stock do you think is straight from China? This is the attitude that has killed our manufacturing power and why so many american companies have shut down or been outsourced to other countries. China doesn't need our help in "flags and patriotic propaganda" department.

I guess what I'm saying is, if we really cared about America being productive in manufacturing, the majority of americans would stop shopping at Walmart.

Sorry, but it adds up after awhile. Thus why this country is in the hole and in denial,quite frankly. We just don't support American made products as much as we talk about being americans.
It's a grim reality but the bottom line is the bottom line. We just love those "low low low" prices

Originally posted by MRGERBIK

PS.. That flag that I can by for $0.99 looks and works just as good as any flag regardless of where it was made. This also helps the world economy stay afloat.

[edit on 063131p://0705pm by semperfoo]

There's a problem with what you just said. How much of Walmart's stock do you think is straight from China? This is the attitude that has killed our manufacturing power and why so many american companies have shut down or been outsourced to other countries. China doesn't need our help in "flags and patriotic propaganda" department.

I guess what I'm saying is, if we really cared about America being productive in manufacturing, the majority of americans would stop shopping at Walmart.

Sorry, but it adds up after awhile. Thus why this country is in the hole and in denial,quite frankly. We just don't support American made products as much as we talk about being americans.
It's a grim reality but the bottom line is the bottom line. We just love those "low low low" prices

Well I dont disagree.. Im more concerned with the quality of chinas exports then I am anything else. Remember the pet food scare that resulted in animals dieing along with thousands sick? I dont shop walmart all that much myself.. And most ppl I know stay clear from walmart. That "Made in China" logo is facing a quality crisis. Sams Club is where I do most of my shopping for grocery's not walmart. most everything there is made in america. I bought a 120 ft garden hose the other day (MADE IN THE US BY THE WAY) and it cost me only 20 bucks. They had one of those same garden hoses at walmart that was 60ft long and it cost nearly as much as that 120ft garden hose that I bought at sams. The point is there is alternative shopping outlets that have higher quality products for pretty decent prices..alls one needs to do is "look around".

This article is dead on in regards to chinas low quality exports. I think you will see more americans buying american due to chinas growing incompetence.
An Export Boom Suddenly Facing a Quality Crisis
www.nytimes.com...

Experts also say doubts about the quality of China’s food shipments and worries about its fake drugs could affect other exports if buyers begin to find safety problems or other product flaws.

Indeed, the frequency of recalls of Chinese imports has risen in recent years, according to the Consumer Product Safety Commission.

For instance, two weeks ago, Wal-Mart Stores announced a nationwide recall of baby bibs made in China after some of those bibs tested positive for high levels of lead.

Just this week, the Cardinal Distributing Company recalled 300,000 children’s rings with dice or horseshoes, and Spandrel Sales and Marketing recalled about 200,000 necklaces, bracelets and rings. In both cases, the jewelry, which was made in China and sold in American vending machines, had high levels of lead.

Many consumers have also told pet food makers that they want goods that are free of any ingredients from China, according to the Pet Food Institute.

The current scare may prompt changes in China. The former head of the nation’s food and drug safety watchdog is now on trial in Beijing, accused of accepting bribes and failing to curb the growing market in fake and dangerous medicines.

Still, few trade experts believe that China’s export boom is going to slow anytime soon. China’s shipments of vegetables and seafood have been soaring in recent years. And many importers say they would rather work with Chinese companies to raise safety levels than switch suppliers. China is also negotiating with the United States and the European Union to have them accept Chinese poultry products. That move is opposed by American and European poultry farmers, who are using the pet food scandal to press their case.
“If you bring chicken in here from China, you don’t know what that chicken ate, and I think that’s dangerous,” said Lucius Adkins, president of the United Poultry Growers Association.

Indeed, certain industries will face greater challenges, starting with feed processing, where two Chinese companies were found to have intentionally mixed an industrial chemical called melamine with wheat flour to heighten protein readings artificially.

Pharmaceuticals need to overcome even higher hurdles, particularly since last year when 100 people died in Panama after ingesting fake ingredients used in cough syrup.

“We’re now learning some of the dirty secrets behind this fast-growing economy,” said Wang Fei-ling, a professor of international affairs at the Georgia Institute of Technology. “And the dirty secret is they’re cutting corners in making things.”

[edit on 043131p://3605pm by semperfoo]

Semper, at it again, this thread is about why do people hate the US, its not about imports/exports, employment or anything else.

Answer the question, why do people hate the US, for what reasons and if those reasons are justified what can you do to correct that image. What is it that people do not like about America, are their views unfounded or are they justified. Many such as you are fond of quoting were not American or we have not visited the US well you lot did not even know where Iraq was before the war yet you are all full of opinions when it comes to that country.

As I have stated before face up to the responsibility of your Goverments actions, stop hiding behind quotes and smoke screens, you would make a good Politician.

Originally posted by semperfoo
Well sir you put your hand in a hornets nest with this thread (if you started it) 95% of the ppl here (even americans) just so happen to be bigoted anti americans who can only sit around hoping that the US will collapse sometime soon.

no, i'm pretty sure those people are actually anti-administration progressives who would like to see a lot of change to the structure and policy of this nation sometime soon.

redseal - Good thread. Atleast you are giving a vent to all the frustrated Americans and outsiders to write something meaningful here. I think this is much better than a bunch of guys on a crossroad cursing their own nation.