Honor killing of young girl in Iraq caught on video

Originally posted by laiguana
Well since it's Islam I'm not surprised. Islam is pure evil, it encourages hate against everyone including their own family members.

Prove it.

I don't hate my family. Instead of using this thread as a means of showing your ignorance on Islam, use it learn and ask about it.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
I understand from my Iraqi and Palestinian friends that under Islam one will be put to death for abandoning the Islamic faith

Your friends lied to you. Ask them to show you where it says that in the Quran.

[edit on 4-5-2007 by DJMessiah]

Why would I ask questions about Islam and knowingly recieve biased answers? The actions fueled by the Islamic agenda speaks for itself. And though this incident may not have been committed by muslims, it's certainly not something that is absent in the Islamic culture. You are more concerned about the bad press that Islam gets (and it is well deserved), but you don't protest atrocities like this, just as other muslims don't, because these murders are approved in Islamic culture. So I've come to a fair conclusion that Islam is an axis of evil. It's not that complicated.

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
Im actually more interested in the reaction of the people around while the girl was getting stoned to death. "Honor" killings are one thing, you expect that sort of behavior in backwards cultures.

But people actually standing around in a crowd, passively watching. Cheering. Policemen who are supposed to uphold law standing by, fully armed, doing nothing. While an adolecent child is murdered. No cries of protest from the crowd, no cries of "what the hell are you doing, you sick morons!" No one reacting in horror, outrage, and protest to the cold blooded and brutal MURDER that is taking place a few feet away from them. Murder being performed close enough they can see gore and hear the thuds of rocks hitting the girl's body. A child. A young human, barely into puberty, being brutally murdered within grabbing distance. Where people could have attacked the filth that were stoning her.

Yes, this is exactly what hit me the hardest about this. One man is just standing there smoking a cigarrette as if he is watching a baseball game. Just nonchalont. How horrific is that? How aweful it must have been for her knowing that a crowd had gathered to watch her be murdered and not one person even raised a voice in protest. You dont even see one raised eyebrow or quiet look of horror. Your own family, your own neighbors. All because she had a boyfriend. WTF?? The reaction of the bystanders says it all. Just the fact that they allowed themselves to be video taped during this tells me that they knew nothing would be done about it either, just another day... Very sad.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
Prove it.

I don't hate my family. Instead of using this thread as a means of showing your ignorance on Islam, use it learn and ask about it.

djmessiah you have to remmember these people have an agenda against islam and muslims, all they have is hate and have no intention of learning just spreading their blisfull ignorance

hence why i never try and argue with them or show them anything
as the saying goes never argue with a fool as they will take you down to their level and beat you with experience

this is for anyone that wants to learn

source
It's fairly easy to come up with Islamic condemnations of violence against women. They are clear and numerous: tens of verses of the Qur'an command good treatment of women and define the relationship of husband and wife to be "protecting friends of one another" (30:21), and the Prophet was known to vehemently disapprove of men hitting their wives ("Be kind to women; you have rights over your wives, and they have rights over you" and "Never hit the female servants of Allah"). These responses are brought out by Muslims every time stories like this come in the news: so-called "honor" killings and violence - where women are beaten and killed because some primitive notion of "honor" was violated - are up dramatically in Pakistan over previous years. For those Muslims who brush this off as just a statistic, take a good look at this picture. This is Zahida Parveen, whose ears, nose, and eyes were cut out by her husband.

She doesn't fit into the statistic above because she's one of the lucky ones. She lived.

Violence against women is by no means limited to the Muslim world, but as Muslims we are called upon to be better. All the Islamic condemnations of violence against women mean nothing if they lay in dusty, unopened books and are not used against the tribal, patriarchal madness that has continued to infect the Muslim world from the beginning. And even then, condemnations are not enough. The men who commit these crimes and who are escaping with slaps on the wrist must be brought to justice.

second source

the source has links that back up all the things said

And this is their ISLAM for which they encourage JIHAD against the planet people !!!

Thats another thing. They VIDEOTAPED a murder like normal humans would video tape a kid's birthday party or a vacation spot.

I mean, as far as I am concerned, this fits in the same category as sociopathic sickos who keep tokens from their victims, or the freaks at Abu Ghraib who took pictures of twisted torture sessions and stuff.

If you can stand around and watch a young, unarmed, helpless human being being brutally murdered right in front of you, when you and other bystanders far outnumber the attackers and some of you are armed.....if you can stand there and just watch a child being murdered, then you are not a human being. You no longer can claim that title or any of its rights. I could care less what culture you are in or how bad your life might be.

You are simply no longer a human being and should not recieve the same consideration.

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf exactly these people that commit these crimes are phycopaths
and i agree with you these people lose all rights as a human after commiting such act

its just a shame so many people would rather blame an entire group because of their actions

hence why i never try and argue with them or show them anything

Or it could be that you can't argue the case and so avoid it.

You too Bodrul have an extreme position in that you dismiss everyone who is critical of Islam as hateful of Islam. That way in your own mind no doubt you can justify your own stance. You can also avoid dealing with the issues.

It is also convenient to side step the issues by denegrating all your critics as fools.

There are issues about western culture and American foreign policy which deserve criticism. True. There are issues about Islam which deserve criticism. Until Islam can address the contradictions in it's own philosophy and live up to the real merciful teachings of Allah and stop dabling in hatred then Islam will continue to be mistrusted.

You do nothing by your stance Bodrul to advance Islam.

If you were a true friend to Islam Bodrul you would not harbour hypocracy.

Originally posted by sy.gunson
Or it could be that you can't argue the case and so avoid it.

You too Bodrul have an extreme position in that you dismiss everyone who is critical of Islam as hateful of Islam. That way in your own mind no doubt you can justify your own stance. You can also avoid dealing with the issues.

first apoligies if my reply is short (2 am and i got work in the morning)

i only dismiss those who show reluctent to learn and insted just spread ignorance and i am sure many will agree with me on that as its useless to try and talk to someone that would rather shout then listen.

i dont dismiss anyone that can sit and discuss something infact i welcome it
but those lux and so on that spout rubbish i will dismiss (think what you like) not like you have to defend your faith to others.

there is a big difrence in being criticle of muslims and islam and going out his/her way to use any excuse to have a go at a whole group thanks to the actions of a few

Originally posted by sy.gunson
You can also avoid dealing with the issues.

i have always dealt with the issues when anyone asks questions i always respond , i just dont waste my time on those that wont bother listening

Originally posted by sy.gunson
It is also convenient to side step the issues by denegrating all your critics as fools.

those who ask questions are fools for a min
those who dont are fools for ever

ever heard of that?

i only call people fools if they show that they dont want to understand or listen to others.



hope this reply helps with your understanding of me
i do not shy away when people ask questions

You do nothing by your stance Bodrul to advance Islam.

what might that be?
+i am a muslim so whats the friends thing got to do with things?

If you were a true friend to Islam Bodrul you would not harbour hypocracy.

please show my hypocracy



[edit on 4-5-2007 by bodrul]

Originally posted by laiguana
Why would I ask questions about Islam and knowingly recieve biased answers?

Bias in what way? Do you think asking a non-Muslim about Islam will give you level of knowledge from someone who's been a Muslim their entire life?

The actions fueled by the Islamic agenda speaks for itself.

Care to elaborate on what this "agenda" is? I'm assuming you actually researched about this "agenda" rather than formed an opinion from what you see on the news.

And though this incident may not have been committed by muslims, it's certainly not something that is absent in the Islamic culture.

So you're presuming that this hasn't occurred in any other culture in the world? Let me remind you, just 40 years ago, here in the US, people would do the very same thing to blacks by lynching them.

You are more concerned about the bad press that Islam gets (and it is well deserved)

Not at all. I'm more concerned over ridding misconceptions and ignorance of Islam.

but you don't protest atrocities like this

It's not part of Islam and I don't approve of what happened.

just as other muslims don't, because these murders are approved in Islamic culture.

Murder has never been approved in Islam.

So I've come to a fair conclusion that Islam is an axis of evil.

"Fair" meaning you've actually researched Islam, or that you don't want to research it, knowing that you could be wrong?

It's not that complicated.

You're right. It's not complicated to be prejudice. It's complicated to fix hatred, racism, and any forms of prejudicialness.

you can find the video on spikedhumor.com, but there's nothing funny about it. I stumbled upon it after watch colbert snippets on the site, which is really weird.

I personally didn't watch it, I find it just as bad to watch it for entertainment and as an excuse for emotional venting!!!

but I know videos like this must be shown, to bring forth justice, but not in this fashion.

[edit on 4-5-2007 by skyblueff0]

Bodrul, DJmessiah, good job on replying to these comments in this thread. It can be annoying having to reply to comments like these all the time!

Originally posted by sy.gunson
There are issues about Islam which deserve criticism.

True, such as extremists who don't follow the entire teachings of the Quran, and only misinterpret passages to their own liking.

Until Islam can address the contradictions in it's own philosophy

Please list them.

and live up to the real merciful teachings of Allah and stop dabling in hatred then Islam will continue to be mistrusted.

The misconception is that all Muslims follow hatred, and yet this mindset in itself is unwarranted because those who believe such things have not researched Muslims, or have not ever met a Muslim personally.

There are those who have misconceptions about Islam, and try to learn what they can to fix those misconceptions, and there are those who choose not to learn about Islam and keep their misconceptions.

[edit on 4-5-2007 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Bodrul, DJmessiah, good job on replying to these comments in this thread. It can be annoying having to reply to comments like these all the time!

Thank you. I'm used to it. After 9/11, living in GA, I've had my life threatened many times by people who turn their hatred into physical violence, so replying to comments like these are like a walk in the park.

WOW..thank god those are all innocent iraqi people just trying to live while the BIG MEAN USA INVADES their country and makes them do bad things and our soldiers are so mean that they hurt and kill people that stone little girls and use car bombs to kill anyone they can, etc....We are definitly the reason for terrorism and the "MEAN" things that happen in iraq and abroad..thank god only Americans do "sick" stuff

What I like is.. where are all the American haters and military protestors right now...Why are you not sticking up for your wonder iraqi people now who are so innocent and being abused by the USA. Thank god we put our own troops in prison and ruined their careers for a few photos of iraqi men who were naked (but well fed and getting medical treatment...and NOT being actually abused)..I mean we could of just stoned the prisoners to death in the name of islam and taken pics with our cell phones and gotten away with it....and some of you ACTUALLY wonder why these people are such a threat to the US & the world!

I wouldn't watch this anyway.
This poor girl's death is not to be sensationalized.
Yes, these things do happen in their world.
Yes, we here in the west find this practice barbaric (in the same way that they find our culture too decadent.)
And yes, I believe that this is wrong and horrifying to behold.
But I do not think that by viewing this and exposing others to it en mass you are doing justice to this young woman who could not defend herself and her actions and now, can never do so.

We can not fight ideology, and by doing so, we expose our ethnocentrism and that is what leads to holy wars and hatred.

This kind of thing has to be examined at it's core, we must find out why it is not only allowable, but why it's practically encouraged.

We need open dialog and to promote understanding that their world does not end with the beginning of our world.
We all exist together, and until practices like this come to an end (which I'm sure that we have behaviors in our culture that they would equally abhor) and we can mutually understand each other's worlds, we will continue to fight each other.
Violence, no matter how "cool looking" or sensationalistic, never solves anything.

My opinion.

Shadow, what the hell are you talking about? Are you trying to use this case to justify the abuse of unarmed prisoners by American soldiers? And are you using this small group of people who committed a 'crime' to generalize how the rest of the country would behave in such a case? The truth is that there are good and bad people all over the world. I've lived in Iraq, and I know there are people such as those who killed this 17 yea old girl in every community, but there are also good people within that very same community. The fact of the matter is that those good people do nothing in such cases because they're afraid for their own lives. Do you know what would happen if one of them opposed to this treatment that this girl received? You guessed it, they'd meet the same fate!

When you come here and try to justify the evil doing of one group of people due to that of another, you really make yourself out to be a hypocrite.

[edit on 4-5-2007 by Impreza]

If you all claim that these types of honor killings aren't part of the Islamic culture then do tell why these incidents are most pervasive in the Islamic culture? I work more with numbers; I am not moved by the candy-coated talk that I get by Islamic apologists. And statistically it shows that honor killings are the highest among Islamic nations, not to mention terrorism, but that's a whole different subject. Now if you don't believe what I'm saying and you need references, just let me know. I'm not the one ignoring the FACTS....I don't care whether there are so called 'misinterpretions' of the quran, every religion has different interpretations of its' doctrine - just about. Look at how many denominations exist within Christianity, but how often do you hear about Christians blowing themselves up in a crowd in innocent people, or killing their daughters because they're dating someone, or beheading those that don't share their exact beliefs? Not much these days, perhaps in the past, but you can't justify the present with the past.

DJMessiah, once again your words are passionate and eloquent.
It's an honor to share this site with you.
I've known quite a few Muslims in my life, and all of them always spoke about how Islam is about promoting love and understanding.
To live an honest life and to be the best person that you can be.
You have confirmed and cemented that for me, and for that, I thank you.
I do not believe that these few speak for the whole of Islam.
To me, what they did was wrong and savage.
But, to attack the whole of Islam because of a small group's actions, well, that is just as wrong as to attack a young girl for hers.
Yes?

Okay for the muslims of the thread, this is what I want to understand. and i am not being hateful in any way, I really do want to understand. If this is not a cultural problem in Islam then why is it that a whole town full of people, police and all stood by while someone was brutally murdered in the street? It looks to me like it is culturally acceptable to kill women for "honor" or else it would not happen so often. I know that the Quran doesnt condone this and that not all muslims think this is ok, but I am puzzled as to why in certain groups this has become a perfectly acceptable way of treating women. is it because of a few rogue clerics? Also, why is there not a concerted effort of these governments to stop it, ie: harsher punishments, ect.