Steven M. Greer releases UFO photographs!

Originally posted by millerman
Sorry but you are way, way off with this entire argument, and you are quite clearly just making up absurd arguments just to try to back me into a corner (AGAIN).
Knock it off, genius.

millerman, how do you explain the fraudulent pictures on Greer's website that are posted with the intent to deceive people into believing that Greer can vector in alien energy beings?

Originally posted by tezzajw

millerman, how do you explain the fraudulent pictures on Greer's website that are posted with the intent to deceive people into believing that Greer can vector in alien energy beings?

You have no proof that the pictures are fraudulent, posted with the intent to decieve people.

"Light Anchor" - you guys were real quick to write this off as some kind of insect, but this doesn't look like any kind of insect that I know of.

"Loved One" - you guys were real quick to write this off as a plain old ordinary moth, glowing due to "camera flash". CSETI describe this being as if they have seen it before and it glows like that all the time. There is no way to prove anything either way.

"Orb on Greer's chest" - he was clearly wearing a plain dark blue shirt that day, they took a picture of him, and this Orb-like pattern showed up. You guys were quick to write it off as dust on the camera lens or something like that, but maybe it's not. There is no way to prove anything either way.

"Anomalous daytime lights" - nothing fraudulent here. Those are strange blue and red lights and there is nothing to indicate what their source is.

Again.... there is no way to prove anything either way. You have no proof that these pictures are fraudulent, posted with the intent to deceive people.

[edit on 26-4-2007 by millerman]

Originally posted by millerman
You have no proof that the pictures are fraudelent, posted with the intent to decieve people.

Thanks, millerman.

I just needed to read your opinion on the screen.

You're right. I'll never know that the picture of the moth was actually a moth. I mean, it's so obvious that it just looks like a Loved-One-Alien-Energy-Being flapping it's wings like a moth.

Sure, Greer is such a clean man that he does not allow dust around him to even try and interfere with camera lenses. It must be his sterile medical upbringing that has kept him so dust-free. That must have been an alien-energy-orb on his chest. I mean, what else could it be other than an alien-energy-orb?

Anyway, I'm satisfied that I have your expert analaysis. Thanks for that. Please, don't edit your post either. It's an important resource for other people to see.

Originally posted by tezzajw
Thanks, millerman.

I just needed to read your opinion on the screen.

You're right. I'll never know that the picture of the moth was actually a moth. I mean, it's so obvious that it just looks like a Loved-One-Alien-Energy-Being flapping it's wings like a moth.

Sure, Greer is such a clean man that he does not allow dust around him to even try and interfere with camera lenses. It must be his sterile medical upbringing that has kept him so dust-free. That must have been an alien-energy-orb on his chest. I mean, what else could it be other than an alien-energy-orb?

Anyway, I'm satisfied that I have your expert analaysis. Thanks for that. Please, don't edit your post either. It's an important resource for other people to see.

Very good sarcasm and ridicule tezzajw, great job. Someone with an IQ of Mud couldn't have come up with sarcasm like that............

But you know, I don't think it's the possibility that Greer could be a fraud that really bothers you guys.

It seems like it is actually the possibility that these people could really start seeing and experiencing all these weird things when they go out there and meditate as a group, that really upsets you guys!

I mean, you SAY you have an open mind, you SAY you believe in things like UFOs and ET life, you SAY you are open to the possibility of things like telekinesis and levitation and telepathy..... but whenever you are confronted with possible evidence of these things, all you can do is deny and ridicule it!

Maybe your mind isn't really as open as you say it is?

Originally posted by millerman


Maybe your mind isn't really as open as you say it is?

Well, just because people question things - you expect them to have blind faith in everything around them? I mean, if someone told you that outer space had an actual oxygen rich atmosphere would you believe them and step outside a space ship and inhale? A researchers job is to investigate and research material. Not everything you read in the tabloids is true. You don't think that some people make up lies to get money? Wouldn't you rather have people asking questions then blindly accepting any thought or theory? So far from your standpoint - you haven't ever stated that you didn't believe in something - but rather believe in everything you hear and see. I haven't seen one post where you were a bit skeptical about ANYTHING. I find that strange.
Even the utmost believers disregard some things as scams or fakes... but, yet - you haven't. Name one thing you find suspicious about any Ufologist, Greer, or even something that you don't believe in on the paranormal end?

Even Greer is skeptical - which is why (as you have stated) it is so hard to get into his organizations. The only thing you are skeptical about are people who ask questions about Greer... but yet - you also rather believe in photos of moths and Illusionists (Blaine, Angel) tricks in which you believe them to be real (which you stated in another thread). Sorry if it upsets you that people don't follow blindly, but that is how most normal people in the world rationalize.

Dudes-Like I said earlier in this thread, I am actually a huge DP enthusiast and even a fan of Greer's. I have invested in the organization and bought all of Greer's books, as well as the witness testimony DVD from his site. That being said, those pictures are not good-not good at all. The "loved one" is so unbelievably obviously a moth it's as basic as ABC. Not hating on Greer or TDP, as I've said, I'm a huge fan and backer. They just need to pull that stuff off the site and get some real, dramatic footage. I have seen craft with my own 2 eyes, I know that the large groups assembled can put up better evidence than what's on there.

Originally posted by kroms33

Originally posted by millerman


Maybe your mind isn't really as open as you say it is?

Well, just because people question things - you expect them to have blind faith in everything around them?

Absolutely not!

I expect people to keep an open mind and consider all the different possibilities, instead of immediately jumping to one particular conclusion, that's all.

Wouldn't you rather have people asking questions then blindly accepting any thought or theory?

Yes, a healthy skepticism and questioning of things is good. Believing only what you want to believe and NOT questioning things or considering alternate possibilities is bad.

So far from your standpoint - you haven't ever stated that you didn't believe in something - but rather believe in everything you hear and see.

No, I never said that I believe everything. If it seems like I believe everything, it's because I'm trying to open people's minds up to new possibilities - instead of just believing only what they want to believe.

Name one thing you find suspicious about any Ufologist, Greer, or even something that you don't believe in on the paranormal end?

I do find it suspicious that Greer doesn't post more convincing photos or footage, because I believe that he does have them. But I think there may be good reasons for that, which I have talked about before.

Sorry if it upsets you that people don't follow blindly, but that is how most normal people in the world rationalize.

No, what upsets me is when I see people only believing what they want to believe and closing their minds to new possibilities and actively ridiculing people who do believe.

And not only actively ridiculing people, but subjecting other posters to SUCH intense badgering and ridicule and trying to make them feel SO unwelcome that it makes me start to wonder if they have a hidden agenda in doing so, like being paid.....

Like, is all this "NO ONE on here takes you seriously, EVERYONE on here is against you" kind of stuff really necessary?

If you want to ridicule Greer and say he's a fraud, fine, but why not just state your opinion once and be done with it, as many do? Why is it necessary to try to back other posters into a corner, make them feel like "EVERYONE ON ATS is against them" and try to make them feel so stupid and unwelcome that they stop posting in support of Greer?

It's all fun and games until someone posts a picture of something supposed to look like something which looks like a bug, dust.. or just your average every day object.

Greer could be a complete hoax. All the witnesses could be lying. Most UFO photos are fakes. 9/11 doesn't have to be an inside job. Oh and God is dead.
Greys? Why not Elves or trolls or little people? Come on, it's all tinfoil?

Man, I love tangling around in the "what ifs"

Personally I don't know what to believe of the photos so I choose to believe nothing. It most likely is a moth, if it is... I'll know by eating, sleeping, going to my job and living my every day life as I've done to this point for another couple of years.. and nothing more will come out of TDP.

Do I hope it's more than a moth? Of course! Am I blind fool for that, hecks no. I'm so human it hurts

Originally posted by millerman

I do find it suspicious that Greer doesn't post more convincing photos or footage, because I believe that he does have them. But I think there may be good reasons for that, which I have talked about before.

Good, we are getting somewhere then - your conversion is almost complete.... HAHAHHA JK.
If he has the footage - I could agree that perhaps he is waiting to release a DVD or something - but he should do the right thing and show the world for free.

Like, is all this "NO ONE on here takes you seriously, EVERYONE on here is against you" kind of stuff really necessary?

Hey, I never said that everyone was against you - I just stated that some of your claims - well, it is hard to take you seriously.... and I never said no one takes you seriously.

If you want to ridicule Greer and say he's a fraud, fine, but why not just state your opinion once and be done with it, as many do? Why is it necessary to try to back other posters into a corner, make them feel like "EVERYONE ON ATS is against them" and try to make them feel so stupid and unwelcome that they stop posting in support of Greer?

I don't think I fall under those assertions. If you, for some reason feel backed into a corner - perhaps you should research whatever you are debating to acquire more ammunition to fuel your theories - so you do not get backed into a corner. And, please - don't play the victim in what has transpired through out these (Greer) threads, remember - you are the one that started personally attacking people and calling them names. If someone was making anyone feel unwelcome and uncomfortable - unfortunately it was you. Yes, it takes two to tango and argue.

Originally posted by millerman
You have no proof that the pictures are fraudulent, posted with the intent to decieve people.

You're right. But Greer posting pictures of bugs and claiming they are unidentified flying objects is not helping. Have you ever viewed pictures bug enthusiasts take? Ever wonder why they rarely take photographs of them in flight? If they do, the specifically set the shutter speed to extremely quick exposure. Greer is becomming increasingly ignorant on this subject and needs to do some research in photography.

The best method of being credible is knowing how camera will react to certain common situations, such as a bug flying by; and immediately dismissing anything similar to these ocassions as normal phenomenon.

You're also right about having an open mind. You have to think outside of the box. Don't take this as an insult, miller, or anyone else who "believes" in these pictures: you're just applying the open-minded state incorrectly in this situation. We don't pull these explanations out of thin air. These are tested, truthful and reliable frameworks of photography.

In reading the some of the replies supporting these images as legit, its resoundingly clear that objectivity and practical observation are being cast aside. Either for the pursuit of deep personal need or willful blind faith in Dr. Greer.

I find it disconcerting with all the facts in images and technical analysis that people would hold assertions made by a man that is doing his best to discredit the overall community at large. This is a cult mentality - refusal to see things for what they are. People need to cut their losses and see this man for what he is. A hoax and charlatan.

Originally posted by nullster
In reading the some of the replies supporting these images as legit, its resoundingly clear that objectivity and practical observation are being cast aside. Either for the pursuit of deep personal need or willful blind faith in Dr. Greer.

I could just as easily argue that those defecating all over these pictures have a deep personal need to NOT believe in such things and are practising a blind skepticism.

Suppose for a minute that these "Orbs" for example, actually do exist, and the people that see them try to collect evidence of them, they take dozens or hundreds of pictures of them - but every time they show you one of these pictures, you go "Oh that couldn't really be an Orb, that's just a dust particle on the camera lens".

Same thing with the "alien communication probes" - and the same problem happened over in the "Publicist" thread with the levitation phenomenon.

I mean you guys are completely excluding the possibility that any of these things could be real!

I'm not saying I necessarily believe in all these things.... I am just trying to show you people that your minds are closed to even the possibility that they could be real....

It is most extreme arrogance to assume that we have already discovered everything and that we already know everything there is to know and that there are no new things out there waiting to be discovered.....

My God! There are people here willing to defend a MOTH as an ET. Incredible. Is there no place on the Internet where UFOs can be discussed by largely sane people? Everywhere you go, no matter which forums you visit, the nutcases are there spouting these incredible theories and condemning others for questioning them.

It's a MOTH, for God sakes, people. Just a MOTH. Please, for the sake of God, anyone who believes that MOTH is an ET, please leave the building immediately. Your sanity is running down Interstate 5--and you're NOT going to be able to catch it!

Originally posted by schuyler
My God! There are people here willing to defend a MOTH as an ET. Incredible. Is there no place on the Internet where UFOs can be discussed by largely sane people? Everywhere you go, no matter which forums you visit, the nutcases are there spouting these incredible theories and condemning others for questioning them.

It's a MOTH, for God sakes, people. Just a MOTH. Please, for the sake of God, anyone who believes that MOTH is an ET, please leave the building immediately. Your sanity is running down Interstate 5--and you're NOT going to be able to catch it!

I did not say that the "MOTH" is an ET.

Q: Would a "Loved-One" or an "Alien Energy Communication Rod" come near you if you are wearing "Off insect repellent"? Just wondering since that seems easier to apply then trying to make an aluminum foil hat with "antennae" suddenly in case of an emergency invasion from this type of "alien".

Just for the mood-
Bzzz

Is the concept of ETs sending out communication probes really that implausible?

Question for the photography experts

I understand that everybody's explanation for the fact that the moth is glowing is that it is flash from the camera....

I notice that behind the moth there's this circle of hazy air, which suggests that the moth is giving off it's own light/heat.

How would flash from the camera produce hazy, heated air behind the moth?

Originally posted by millerman

Originally posted by schuyler
My God! There are people here willing to defend a MOTH as an ET. Incredible. Is there no place on the Internet where UFOs can be discussed by largely sane people? Everywhere you go, no matter which forums you visit, the nutcases are there spouting these incredible theories and condemning others for questioning them.

It's a MOTH, for God sakes, people. Just a MOTH. Please, for the sake of God, anyone who believes that MOTH is an ET, please leave the building immediately. Your sanity is running down Interstate 5--and you're NOT going to be able to catch it!

I did not say that the "MOTH" is an ET.

Excuse me, but did I quote YOU? Do you think this entire thread is all about reacting to what YOU post? Just curious.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by millerman
I did not say that the "MOTH" is an ET.

Excuse me, but did I quote YOU? Do you think this entire thread is all about reacting to what YOU post? Just curious.

Your post came right after mine, and you didn't quote anyone, I thought you were referring to my post. If you weren't referring specifically to my post - sorry.

Originally posted by millerman
Question for the photography experts
I notice that behind the moth there's this circle of hazy air, which suggests that the moth is giving off it's own light/heat.
How would flash from the camera produce hazy, heated air behind the moth?

millerman, that's easily explainable. Greer projects such a strong aura, such that any picture ever taken, anywhere in the world, will have some haze in it. The warmth of Greer's sincerity and his loving nature is difficult to suppress. His force-field of anchored energy ebbs and flows in strength, in synch, with the observer's gullibility and totally dedicated zealot nature to his cause.

People who believe in Greer see his aura everywhere. People who don't believe in Greer have a more difficult task of seeing his almighty glow.