Jesus Was An Egotistical Mad Man

Originally posted by Columbus
You talk a lot but say little.

You are trying to con me into thinking Eve was innocent.

In a case of Fraud (which is what Applegate is), the guilty party is The Serpent, not Eve. I've added that to my signature to remind you. Nothing you say makes Eve guilty of anything but being tricked. Sure, she could have apologized to God for disobeying him and eating his fruit, and God should have forgiven here just like that as any decent person would, like me. But no, you need some complex explanation to justify Salvation. Without your nonsenical contradictory explanation, there is simply no need for Salvation. That's your problem.

Maybe this will clear up the Adam & Eve business...





[edit on 22-4-2007 by melatonin]

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
nor stick their evil stamps on to others.

The evil stamp is stuck on us.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
In fact it would be just the opposite, any person being referred to as a devil or a demon would be called an angel or God.

They were until they fell. People wither over a period of nearly a hundred years in some cases. Imagine how ugly a being they are who have gradually over a period of thousands of years have deteriorated. Not only physically but spiritually into corruption.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Get it? It's the self confidence and the self awareness of goodness that needs to be raised, not the damnation of further disasters.

In order to raise self awareness is to become aware of what you are. Not deceiving yourself into thinking you are something that you are not.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
I think it's the other way around, we die to win Jesus/God back.

That's your problem, you think. What you think about GOD and what GOD is, can be totally opposite.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
That's a dastardly artificial cycle and it's only going to cause more chaos.

Temporarily.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
I can not tell if you are serious or not any more.

Well if it helps to say so. I'm serious.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Calling your self and others no good heaps of sin filled flesh is almost starting to remind me of a saturday night live comedy featuring Will Ferrel.

The truth is the truth.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
We are in heaven eternally before we are born

Where is that written?

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
and after we die we go some where for eternity. That's not death, it's eternal life.

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
let's try and stay away from assumption.

If "WE" did that, you would have nothing.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
I experience my own form of freedom.

An inmate has freedom too. Confined to his cell.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
I am not bound by the perils of demons

As a dog on a leash isn't bound by it.

Funny you should say that, when you speak their language.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
nor by the wrath of God

The sun is made to rise on the just and on the unjust. It's rather deceiving unless one understands it. That's why wickedness is allowed. That's why the wicked can curse and deny GOD and still be blessed. He's giving them their chance to change. That chance is not eternal. This age will end.

He that is forgiven of the most, loves the most.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
I suffer my own consequences because I have a conscience that can feel right from wrong.

There is a way that seems right [and wrong] to man, but the end is death.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Let's keep it civil.

Let's keep it truthful.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

No he almost did. We are still here. You are breathing and I'm breathing.

That's not what we were originally talking about.

Yes it is.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

Yes the spectrum hadn't been seen prior because of the sun shining through the water canopy around the earth. That and the plants were watered through a mist/condensation before it. It was a perfect large greenhouse, the optimal living conditions for everything.

Is that in the Bible, too?

The heaven and earth were created. The earth was covered in water. The water was divided. The water underneath was made into the sea, the water above was made in the heaven.

At the time of the flood, the windows of the heaven were opened.

Yes it is. Read it.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

He'll show you one day.

Days are only what we seem to experience on Earth as it revolves.

Well, he'll show you at one interval of the earth's revolution. Hope it spins quite a few more times before hand. So just maybe you will understand.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

So I'd love you more if I let you alone without making sure you understand you are going before hand. So you have a chance to change before you are given your last breath.

But I am swine, are you diss obeying Jesus?

How does one know a swine, unless he first gives him a few pearls to trample?

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
You have love and hate backwards.

We'll let those who have eyes to see and an ear to hear, determine that.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Do you think that you are the only one going to "Heaven"?

If I did, I wouldn't be wasting time here.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

There's nothing kind, nice and loving in the broad road to hell.

Are you aware that approximately 85% (off the top of the head from looking at statistics recently) believes in heaven and hell, God and devil? Doesn't that seem broad?

Drive at 100MPH toward a solid wall and believe in the wall. Also believe in how deadly it would be to hit the wall. Then believe in being saved from hitting the wall. Then believe in the brakes that can save you.

Believe in the brakes, but don't use them and see what happens.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
If that's so, then why are you here doing it?

Something doesn't know what it is until the light is shown on it.

Now Jesus came to save the world, but not to condemn it, because the world is already condemned. The world only knows it's condemned in light of the law. In light of the law we are all guilty. All equal.

You can't condemn something that is condemned already.

The reasoning behind preaching the gospel is to show the condemned that they are condemned and there is a means for salvation. The only means. Jesus Christ. Also to do whatever one can to help them understand where it is the condemned go.

It's to give every ear a chance to either accept him or deny him. That's what it's all about.

Then the end comes. For some that means eternal shame and contempt. To others that means eternal life.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Do you want me to quote all the times you have condemned me and others? You are denying that you have done this?

I know what I've said, and don't deny a word. What I've said is the truth. I won't deny a word of it.

You would rather hear it from me now and change as a result than to hear it from the one who created you and not have the chance to change.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Can't you admit that you are being a slight bit delusional?

No.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

You can't kill a dead man.

Is that why Jesus never died and God can not be touched?

It's a shame to waste precious database space answering the same repeated questions over and over and over and over again. It's been explained, page back.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

You mean how did GOD put it together by the means of man.

Well first you have to prove God exists other than from what the Bible says, that was created through Humans.

On the same note, you have to prove he doesn't. You also have to prove that this garbage that you come up with repeatedly. Has been tried and tested for thousands of years as have the manuscripts that make up the BIBLE. Rather than some brain garbage that's formed itself between your ears in the last few years, give or take a few.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal

He's life itself. Without him you are dead.

We couldn't kill Jesus, and you can't kill a dead man.

He gave his spirit, nobody took it. The father raised him up. As I said before page back, no sense wasting space.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Jesus fits this definition of a dead man.

If he were dead.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Are you sure you mean every thing that you are saying?

Yes.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Or are you just saying it to keep the thread going

Actually no. It's getting rather tiring, to say the least.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
so in essence, without Jesus Christ I am still eternal and can not be killed.

and going to hell, yes.

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Let's just say hypothetically that I am without Jesus, are you telling me that I am a dead man walking? That's cool, science would love to study me

Spiritual death is the last can of worms they'd open.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
"Well wife did it and ain't killed over so why not."

You aren't imagining the situation as though you were there, and neither is the guy in the video. You're taking what is written at face value, supplemented with apology. Please try to think outside the cell you confine yourself to.

...a day to GOD is as a thousand years.

Beside the point. The issue is the crime, fraud, not the punishment, which is misplaced. You haven't learned about fraud yet? You will. It's inevitable.

The flesh is all the flesh sees.

Again, beside the point. You have been neglecting to look at the situation from this perspective. Did it ever occur to you that you must already be Christian to view the need for Christ from the Christian perspective?

If you really care, ask him.

My question is rhetorical, that is the statement is proof in itself, an axiom. I am mortal therefore I understand death. I do not need God to explain to me what it is to die. God needs that from me, but no matter how hard I try, God can never understand mortality because it is impossible to him.

Through brainwashing you have only forgotten about death and this has made you
psychotic. (Helpful information in the links.)

If we could have just a look at those carrying out their sentences. That'd be just too beneficial for some.

Again, the violence and threat of violence are brainwashing, mind control, techniques. Why should I be motivated to accept Christ purely based on fear? I've asked you before. I get no answer from you.

That is an utterly stupid video by the way. I don't know if there is a good film portraying the Fall of Man story, I would recommend staging a play of it, rather than reciting another verbal narrative that is no better than the scripture itself. Seeing it as it supposedly happened would really make the silliness of it much more apparent.

My Bible says:

And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day...

It does not say he became a man and his godly features were suspended, but I know you imagine this is Jesus' body. That would be like if you could take the form of an animal, but you would be as stupid as the animal and no longer able to fully be yourself. Usually when people imagine taking the form of an animal, they imagine still being themselves and being able to think as though they had their human brain.

Some outrageous quotes from the video:

keep you dumb ... God made me stupid

This is a means of control, not exactly brainwashing, but the goal is exactly the same.

I'm gonna have to torture you and your children.

This really illustrates my point. God is Not Good.

God bought the Serpent's disguise, but Christians somehow know the truth that even Adam and Eve didn't. Yet God hasn't snatched up Satan already because he doesn't want to look stupid. Whenever fraudsters get away, that's always the reason. Coincidence?

Knowledge is good! Ignorance is not Good! -- Satan

That must be why ATS motto is Deny Ignorance! Did you go to school at all? You must have been seeking knowledge and following Satan! Sunday School must be Satanic. Knowledge of the Bible is Satanic.

This is so silly. You don't really believe this do you? You must not. You're just playing with me.

In order to raise self awareness is to become aware of what you are.

Self-knowledge and self-awareness are totally different things. Christians do not know themselves, they are only brainwashed. Self-awareness is self-consciousness and often manifests itself as shyness or introversion.

...because the world is already condemned.

By God. Fix the blame where it belongs.

The reasoning behind preaching the gospel is to show the condemned that they are condemned and there is a means for salvation.

Snake Oil salesmen. Coincidence about the Snake part? You've got the disease and we've got the cure! Smacks of fraud again.

Also to do whatever one can to help them understand where it is the condemned go.

Brainwashing using the tool of violent imagery. Control through fear. And not at all true believing but just believing because of fear.

So I am still waiting for you to consider my two issues:
1) Fraud, Eve is innocent. You only added preaching the Gospel is also fraud.
2) Death, immortals can't grasp it. You claim you answered it pages back, but I don't see anything except you being confused between First and Second.

Originally posted by Columbus
You're taking what is written at face value

You would be correct.

Originally posted by Columbus
Please try to think outside the cell you confine yourself to.

Rather than painfully dissecting every rant of yours, let me try it this way.


It doesn't matter what means satan used to get them to eat. I don't care if he hand cuffed them and force fed it to them. They were told that if they ate from the tree, in the same day they ate, they would die.

As it is, satan conned Eve into eating. The reason he targeted Eve, isn't because women are weaker or anything of the sort. She hadn't witness GOD himself create anything. Satan could have fed her any line and she would have fallen for it.

GOD is truth, he cannot lie. When he speaks something it happens, or it will. It has to.

Being that GOD cannot go against his word. Satan knew that no matter what means he used, just as long as they ate. He had them where he wanted them.

Fraud, you name it. It doesn't matter. Just so long as they ate. GOD can't go against what he's spoken. That's his power. Talk about having to be careful what you say. Well he does.


Being that GOD's word is final. He had already spoken that they would die. OK. Now, lets say just Eve would have eaten. Well she would have died and Adam would have lived. Well, didn't happen that way. We are where we are.



You are faced with the same snake whispering in your ear, telling you it was fraud, sin doesn't exist and GOD doesn't exist. Trying his best to keep your soul in his possession. All he has to do is keep you where you are and he has you. Furthermore as many as he leads astray using you, their blood will be on your hands.

Your choice is to either seek the truth with every thing you have in you, or give in to him and keep going where you are going.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
You would be correct.

That would make you gullible.

They were told that if they ate from the tree, in the same day they ate, they would die.

Also, as I remember, Eve had not even been created at the time. Sure, it says that, but it doesn't answer my point.

As it is, satan conned Eve into eating.

Agreed, it is a case of fraud.

She hadn't witness GOD himself create anything.

Neither did Adam, since he was created at the end. Even if I didn't remember that, I do have a couple of translations here you know. Gen 1:26, after the birds, fish, and livestock.

Satan could have fed her any line and she would have fallen for it.

You should thank God for making her so gullible rather than engendering intelligence and reason. But even so, the two points of view available do not amount to conclusive evidence. Eve still can't be convicted.

GOD is truth, he cannot lie. When he speaks something it happens, or it will. It has to.

Sure. God has no free will. If god looked at a woman and lusted for her it would just happen and he couldn't stop himself.

Satan knew that no matter what means he used, just as long as they ate. He had them where he wanted them.

Sure. Take it as though the apple was poison, a kind of poison that didn't kill you right away, but took say 1000 years. Sure. I'm with you.

GOD can't go against what he's spoken.

Right, he has no free will.

Talk about having to be careful what you say.

Right, the lust thing.

You are faced with the same snake whispering in your ear, telling you it was fraud, sin doesn't exist and GOD doesn't exist.

Satan isn't telling me these things, you are, through ignorance.

Furthermore as many as he leads astray using you, their blood will be on your hands.

Up until this point, you considered death as an end. Then you, by yourself, right here, switched to a different definition of death, where somehow I or anyone else could prevent death. This is what is inconsistent with reality. You had me to here. You tried to trick me into thinking I was committing a violent act that has not actually taken place. You tried to trick me with guilt. That is where you go fatally wrong.

Your choice is to either seek the truth with every thing you have in you, or give in to him and keep going where you are going.

I have sought the truth. The truth led me here. You want me to shut my eyes to reality and just believe out of guilt and fear. I know these are brainwashing techniques to control my mind. It just doesn't fool me.

I really want you to understand brainwashing as it applies to cults, because it will really help you out of this mess you are in.

Originally posted by Columbus

She hadn't witness GOD himself create anything.

Neither did Adam, since he was created at the end. Even if I didn't remember that, I do have a couple of translations here you know. Gen 1:26, after the birds, fish, and livestock.

This is at least the second time you have precisely put your ignorance on public display in this thread alone. Which has been my whole point in doing what I'm doing. To show that you are babbling about something you don't have a clue about and refuse to understand. Only to rebel and be an enemy.

You despise the truth and you won't see it.

Genesis 2:18-20
18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.

20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.

Quite honestly, I'm done wasting my time with you.

You know where you are going. You know why you are going and it's your goal to drag as many down with you as you can.

That much even the blind can see.

Originally posted by WiseSheep
Genesis 2:18-20

This is after Gen 1:26 and refers to God bringing the animals before Adam. That or a repetition in which the order has been changed, creating a contradiction.

Why should Adam need a helper? To rule over the animals? What duties does that entail?

Quite honestly, I'm done wasting my time with you.

It only becomes a waste of time when you run away, quit, without finishing the job. That was always a possibility to me as most Christians do run away to protect their weak faith.

You did not address any of my points. I am not trying to win or defeat you. Only open your eyes to the brainwashing that you have suffered.

You know where you are going.

Definitely not where you want me to go.

...it's your goal to drag as many down with you as you can.

If you really believe that brainwashing nonsense, try to stop me.


[edit on 22-4-2007 by Columbus]

[edit on 22-4-2007 by Columbus]

Originally posted by Columbus

You know where you are going.

Definitely not where you want me to go.

Right, that's why I've put all this effort in you.

Oh, well. You've taught me a lot. Along with those who have eyes to see. Just part of it I guess.

So you have no intention of acknowledging any of my points? That's it? You truly are a waste of time.

melatonin sent me a U2U linking me another YouTube video of the ninja man in the video you linked me. According to him, ninja man is not a real Christian but is parodying them.

WiseSheep, are you really a Christian or are you playing me?

You seem like an intelligent person and we've had a pretty good discussion. There were a few points that made me think you didn't really believe.

I have a lot of difficulty you could take what I've given you and still believe.

Originally posted by Columbus
melatonin sent me a U2U linking me another YouTube video of the ninja man in the video you linked me. According to him, ninja man is not a real Christian but is parodying them.

As if he wasn't transparent enough.

Originally posted by Columbus
WiseSheep, are you really a Christian or are you playing me?

I don't play about life and death issues.

Originally posted by Columbus
You seem like an intelligent person and we've had a pretty good discussion. There were a few points that made me think you didn't really believe.

I have a lot of difficulty you could take what I've given you and still believe.

Because you have never tasted the power of GOD. You may have had a form of godliness. You denied it's power.

You still have hope. It's only when you have been given your last breath. Then it's final.

That could be tomorrow. It could be now.

Your difficulty is because you haven't understood John 10:29 in context. The proper translation is "nothing" rather than "no man". Chew on that a while.

Seek him and you'll find him. Open and he'll come in. He's already given you more of a chance than you deserve. He's given all more than they deserve. Including myself.

WiseSheep, I am changing you from FOE to FRIEND.

Originally posted by Columbus
WiseSheep, I am changing you from FOE to FRIEND.

You see the power of GOD changes people. It doesn't paint you up and make you look good before men. It cleans you from the inside out.

If he's chosen to give you eyes to see. You have just witnessed his power.

Although it's been fun, you have been dishonest with me. Care to explain?

Originally posted by Columbus
Although it's been fun, you have been dishonest with me. Care to explain?

I've not once been dishonest with you. As I said, "IF you have been given eyes to see."

I'd rather speak of my cover which you feel that has been blown in public. You see everything is public. Nothing on this earth is done in secret. Everything is known and will be known.

So why not be open to start with.

Luke 12:3
Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops.

I've told you already Columbus that private debate profits nothing.

Sure, if you really believe that, then answer my points, otherwise I'm sure you are just parodying Christianity and enjoy wasting my time.

I think you could be a good friend, but my time is best spent on people with real problems, and so is yours.

What of the Christians you know in real life? I've grown apart from my old friends over the years.

Where I work now, I am senior management, and no one here is Christian, no one.

Originally posted by Columbus
Sure, if you really believe that, then answer my points,

I've taken my time to answer what had any real substance to it.

Originally posted by Columbus
otherwise I'm sure you are just parodying Christianity and enjoy wasting my time.

Trust me, if I were of this world, I'd find a lot more entertaining things to be doing.

Originally posted by Columbus
I think you could be a good friend

Well I kinda doubt it, but if you say so.

Originally posted by Columbus
, but my time is best spent on people with real problems, and so is yours.

As I've been doing. Those who are sick need the doctor.

Originally posted by Columbus
What of the Christians you know in real life?

I question that myself. I honestly believe if the "church" were taken today. Services would resume next Sunday as usual. Wouldn't miss a beat.

Understand the church isn't a building. It's property of the LORD. It means "the LORD's". Not those who are in the building, but those who are the building.

Originally posted by Columbus
Where I work now, I am senior management, and no one here is Christian, no one.

They could use somebody with some sight.

Go back and read that letter I posted. You may see it differently now. If the mud ever gets washed out of your eyes.

Trust me, if I were of this world, I'd find a lot more entertaining things to be doing.

Like what? I know it's late now, but have you been skiing this weekend? I don't ski myself, but I've tried it a few times because a lot of my old friends were into it.

Well I kinda doubt it, but if you say so.

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt. I used to post on BeliefNet years ago, but the mods kept getting on my case because Christians demanded protection from me. I quit that board out of frustration and haven't posted on many forums since recently, really because of you.

You act so much like I used to, and my friends too. It's really not that funny to me though, because real friendships were lost over trivial nonsense.

Those who are sick need the doctor.

No doubt Christians get along alright on their own, but they slowly damage society. I can't imagine how hard this generation of kids who grow up in places like Kansas will have trying to get into a university when they have no legitimate science education, and the professors know it.

It would be much worse if they give us WWIII in the middle east.

I honestly believe if the "church" were taken today. Services would resume next Sunday as usual. Wouldn't miss a beat.

Yeah, but my old friend's "church" that he tried to start in his house would still be there too.