School Made Girl Remove Jesus Magnet - PTO Then Bans Photos

I agree with them having her take the magnet down, I mean beyond
the point that it is religious, and religion has no place in an educational
environment, she should'nt have magnets on school desks in the first
place.

I know I certainly was'nt allowed to in Elementary school, though that
was so that no one would have it stolen and get upset.

As for the pictures thing, well did the picture actually show the shirt?
The last time I checked school pictures were supposed to be taken from
between the low chest and top of the shoulders.

I don't agree with the picture being taken out, unless the shirt was
offensive, and even than I generally don't like that idea, but I believe it
is a necessary evil when it comes to such things.

Originally posted by iori_komei
I agree with them having her take the magnet down, I mean beyond
the point that it is religious, and religion has no place in an educational
environment, she should'nt have magnets on school desks in the first
place.

Why? The First Amendment guarantees freedom of speech & religion, not freedom from others' speech and religion.

As long as the magnet wasn't so disruptive that truly interfered with the school's main purpose to be able to educate, there's no reason why she wouldn't be allowed to have this on her desk while she occupied it. The Supreme Court case law is pretty clear on this. Unless they do an about-face, the school's position will not withstand the Federal Courts' review under our Constitution.



[edit on 4/11/2007 by djohnsto77]

[edit on 4/11/2007 by djohnsto77]

Because it is religious, and it is a public school, and therefore any religious
paraphinilia, apart from what is being worn should noy be allowed in them,
as public schools are government funded instiutions and therefore should
be subject to seperation of church and state.

Originally posted by iori_komei
Because it is religious, and it is a public school, and therefore any religious
paraphernalia, apart from what is being worn should not be allowed in them,
as public schools are government funded institutions and therefore should
be subject to separation of church and state.

edited for spelling

Beg pardon? the school is not allowed to promote any particular religion, and in this case, it was NOT, this is clearly freedom of expression ( like the schools make Muslims uncover their heads) the "separation of church and state" is to prevent a Governed religion, so if the Teacher had put up the magnet, yes I would agree, but it was a private person doing so, or do you believe that preaching in a public park ( as distasteful as it may be ) is NOT "separation of church and state"? after all, it's public property ie Owned by the state. See how fast you get a lawsuit if you tried to stop one of them. Public TV is regulated by the Government ( FCC) so does that mean No religious TV shows can be shown? seems like this is the logic you are using

this is part of the problem, with ALL of this, promoting or endorsing is NOT the same as allowing

Originally posted by iori_komei
Because it is religious, and it is a public school, and therefore any religious
paraphinilia, apart from what is being worn should noy be allowed in them,
as public schools are government funded instiutions and therefore should
be subject to seperation of church and state.

It seems you already agree that something "worn" by a student should be exempt. I see no difference from that than a magnet someone wants to display on his/her desk while using it.

Again, it's not the school that's sponsering these images, it's the individual students, and they have the right to do so.

I think religion has no place in scool. That being said Its not like the school was passing out these magnets, this was her own personal choice. She was not offending anyone. She should be allowed to keep it as well as anyone else of other religions who chose to wear a pendent signifying their faith. Or lack thereof in the case of aethiest

Originally posted by Blaine91555
You may find some individual cases but over all it is Superior.

I cannot see how you can make a blanket statement like that and seem to be so positive. As I mentioned earlier in the thread all one has to do is watch the Jay Leno street interviews where people do not know who our current vice president is. Moreover, I am talking people who appeared to be in their mid twenties. Using them as a prime example is why I think not all home schooling could or will work.

The US does not have the highest literacy rate either that is another problem.

Look at Germany's literacy rate of 99% yet just last year they arrested parents for home schooling their children because of some old law from way back when.

Parents arrested for homeschooling

I could be wrong but I think some states have similar laws on the books in the US that require children to attend schools.


Compulsary school attendance laws by state

No doubt some state laws may vary in what type of schooling is or is not permitted/allowed


[edit on 4/11/2007 by shots]

If this were someone other than a white Christian she would've NEVER been forced to remove her magnet. Sad but true.

Originally posted by shots

Originally posted by Blaine91555
You may find some individual cases but over all it is Superior.

I cannot see how you can make a blanket statement like that and seem to be so positive. As I mentioned earlier in the thread all one has to do is watch the Jay Leno street interviews where people do not know who our current vice president is. Moreover, I am talking people who appeared to be in their mid twenties. Using them as a prime example is why I think not all home schooling could or will work.

And I'd bet most of those uneducated people were taught in public schools. All the public schools do is indoctorinate kids in secularism.

AH The Power of the Press and Parents Won teacher looses

Eastern York S.D. said a fifth-grader can put her 'God Loves You' magnet at her desk.




What do you want to bet the ACLU will now take over and sue the school for allowing children to put religious items on government owned desks?




[edit on 4/11/2007 by shots]

This is supression of freedom of expression, plain and simple. If someone is authentically offended and is deemed offensive, then by all means get it removed. Religion is a major part of our history, and to just ignore any aspect of any religion is just ignorant. The magnet contained a positive message. Public schools doing things like this is (in my opinion anyways) promoting hate and complete ignorance in understanding others' religious ideas.

Heck, I'm no legal scholar by any means, but a quick look at Wikipedia concerning seperation of church and state reveals this:

Separation of church and state is a political and legal doctrine which states that government and religious institutions are to be kept separate and independent of one another. Primarily discussed in the context of United States law and politics, the term most often refers to the combination of two principles: secular government and freedom of religious excercise.

So, apparently, the school is not endorsing nor stating that by displaying a magnet that it is somehow a religious institution while an individual excercises their freedom of religious expression.

This explains the real crux of the issue:

In this regard, the idea of complete separation between church and state presents two distinct ideas: first that the government is not controlled by the church, and second that the church in turn is also not controlled by the government. In practice, usually both of these principles are compromised. Another division, which somewhat overlaps, is the one between freedom from the establishment of religion, and the freedom to exercise religion.

In this country we should have no raceal discrimmation. That should mean we can talk and spread the word or any religion anywhere. To say there can be a bible in school or that a t shirt of jesus is against the law is against the law. We should feel like we can talk or where anything religest when we want to.

Beatitudes 5 1-12
And bless are ye when men shall rivile you and persicute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you because of me. For Great is your reward in heaven.
Rejoice and be acceedingly glad for great is your reward in heaven for so perscuted they the profets befoe you.

I think that all and christain religion are changing from the true word. aspecial the GVT and how it runs america. In the old days it would not be against the law to bring a bible to school or where anything religionus on it.

The devil is about.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

In other words Congress may not create a religion or a law governing a religion.

...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...

Congress may not interfere with the practice of religion or create a law that interferes with its practice.

...or abridging the freedom of speech,...

Congress may not interfere with the freedom of speech or pass a law that interferes.

Expression is speech and that includes magnets or t-shirts. Any law that interferes with expression whether through text or speech is invalid on its face.

There is no place in the Constitution of the United States of America where it gives the government the power to forbid religious expression anywhere. That power is a myth. The Constitution is available all over the Net and people should read it. It is a simple document a child could understand. It is probably the most misquoted document in history second only to the Bible. Those who misquote and misrepresent what it says are trying to do exactly what it was intended to stop. They are trying to force their opinions and beliefs on everyone else. Those opposed to religion are not trying to protect their rights. They are trying to eliminate religion and they could care less what the Constitution says. Since Secularists are not governed by morality issues like honesty, which are religious concepts in the first place, they can without remorse lie if it aids in their cause. Unfortunately Secularism is predominant among attorneys and consequently Judges.



[edit on 4/11/2007 by Blaine91555]

Originally posted by iraqvet68
Now the term is used by those with anti-religious agendas to restrict the individuals freedom to worship. There has to be some balance where a little girl can display her Jesus magnet. She's not forcing anyone to kneel and pray or wear a burka.

People need to lighten up on being offended. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that anyone has the right to be free from being offended.

"I'm offended by your offendedness."

If you are saying that atheist people try to suppress religion by saying that it offends them then I disagree, at least from my experience anyway. The way I see it is normally people of different religions saying that the other person is offending them. Usually atheists prefer to just stay out of all of that cr*p.

I know what you mean though about people being 'offended' too much. Now you understand why so many people in Britain get p*ssed off when muslims come over here and start trying to change our traditions and way of life because it 'offends' them.

I also think that religion should be kept out of schools, they are for learning basic life skills, not wasting time arguing over what religion you follow. But you try telling a muslim to remove their hijab scarf or something, they wouldn't go down so easy lol

Originally posted by thedigirati
..but it was a private person doing so..

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Again, it's not the school that's sponsering these images, it's the individual students, and they have the right to do so.

The desk is owned by the school, and is therefore government property,
and thusly is subject to speration of church and state status.

If the girls parents want to buy her a desk that is completely payed for
and owned by them, than, as much as I dissaprove of the content in the
environment, she would be able to.

or do you believe that preaching in a public park ( as distasteful as it may be ) is NOT "separation of church and state"? after all, it's public property ie Owned by the state.

There is a difference, parks are open to everyone, and our owned by
the people yes, but schools are not, schools are government property,
not public property.

Originally posted by djohnsto77
It seems you already agree that something "worn" by a student should be exempt. I see no difference from that than a magnet someone wants to display on his/her desk while using it.

The girl owns her clothes, and therefore can wear what she chooses
on them, she does not own the desk, and therefore the desk is subject
to school rules, and in this case seperation of church and state do to it
being government owned.

Like I sez, the schools don't want Jesus because a belief in Him conflicts with other educational goals:



www.antidepressantsfacts.com...
--Another OBE program, Death Education, further damaged children by forcing them to focus on their own mortality: One student related the following story: "We had an English course in seventh grade junior high whose title was 'Death Education.' In the manual, 73 out of 80 stories had to do with death, dying, killing, murder, suicide, and what you wanted on your tombstone."
A class of sixth graders were asked to play a "survival game" in which they were to decide which three people they should eliminate from the group, according to their age and contribution; in another class they were asked to write their own epitaphs or obituaries.


--Girl sees dead father in police DUI photos
The Associated Press, September 10, 2005
KNOXVILLE, Tenn. --A 12-year-old girl saw her father's remains in a gruesome photograph shown during a presentation by police warning teenagers about the dangers of drunken driving.


www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/15...topstories
--May 15, 2006
ST. JOSEPH, Missouri (AP) -- A high school teacher has apologized for asking students to write about who they would kill and how they would do it....


LibertyForum Poster 'TaiKung' 03/09/06 'Little Manchurian Candidates'
--Another (thought experiment) asked students to imagine murdering their parents and to explore what kinds of feelings they would have to have. Acceptible answers might include, because my parents are nuts, or because my parents are stupid.


--High School Internet Porn Assignment Canceled After Uproar
www.newsnet5.com...
Friday, January 13, 2006
A homework asssignment handed out to a freshman class at Brooklyn High, Brooklyn, Ohio was canceled after parents in this Cleveland suburb found out it involved the children's use of the internet to visit pornographic websites. The assignment asked students to research pornography on the Internet and list eight facts about pornography. Students also were asked to write their personal views of pornography and any experience they had with it. .... most students did not hand in the homework, but the teacher then handed out a similar assignment.


--From the May 16, 2006 editions of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
www.jsonline.com/story/in...?id=424003
Parents are angry and school leaders are promising action in response to a "Heterosexual Questionnaire," approved by two teachers, that asked students questions such as: "If you have never slept with someone of your same gender, then how do you know you wouldn't prefer it?"
Hundreds of Port Washington(Wis) High School students were told to submit written answers and discuss the survey.
--questions included: "What do you think caused your heterosexuality?" and "When did you decide you were heterosexual?"
--(Sophomore Justin) Perry said he did not understand the point of spending a class period on the survey. "I know it's a survey," he said, "but what is it trying to teach us?"
--Freshman Jaime Reuter "I shouldn't have to answer that because it's private information," she said. ... she thought the survey backfired. "I think it just got people really, really mad," she said.



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Is we learning yet?

[edit on 11-4-2007 by starviego]

Personally, this is how i see it. We are shifting from being a majority favoring country to a minority favoring country. If a child wears a cross he or she is told to remove it. if a child prays in the school building he or she is sent on suspension untill a parent meeting. i came up with the idea of a vietnam veterans book drive and i was appointed to create a powerpoint for it. i put flags and eagles on every page, becaus i was very patriotic at the time. i was told to either remove the flags and eagles or drop out of the project. i removed them only because i didnt want to be removed from a project that i created. i am so ticked cause these minorities are being treated better than we are and they get better health benefits and better salaries. all cause they are minorities. if you ask me i dont give a care about minorities. let em rot, im not a racist or nothin its just i caint stand how they abuse the system and lie and cheat just to get ahead of us. im sry i didnt mean to take it this far i just feel that minorities are really raping this country. i hope someday we the majority are treated better and are able to get superb health benefits and better salaries.
im sry if i sound nuts but hey i really think minoritys are the main root to the problem, they make christianity and patriotism wrong in the school just to avoid lawsuits from the minority religions and races. like i said im not racist i just dont like minoritys.

Originally posted by iori_komei

The girl owns her clothes, and therefore can wear what she chooses
on them, she does not own the desk, and therefore the desk is subject
to school rules, and in this case seperation of church and state do to it
being government owned.

That makes sense. I could go along with that. It is fair.

This is just excellent...

First keep religion out of law. That is number 1.
Then keep religion out of politics. For sure my brother.
Keep religion out of school. This is just cutting it close. Why are the schools not stripping Hijabs off the heads of Muslim girls? I would never know, but they better get to it!
Ok, ok... But just remember to keep religion out of family life.
Oh also, keep religion out of your head... when an arguement arises, it will conflict with that special, tiny atheistic minority that everyone favours so much.

[edit on 11-4-2007 by cognoscente]

[edit on 11-4-2007 by cognoscente]