To Show How Small and Insignificant We Really Are

Seeing how this thread has gone all over the show, I would like to introduce to you all a rather interesting sun called, rather plainly, HD 12545. I love this picture as it highlights to me how little we know about suns, including sunspots.

Nice comparisons in those images. Brings the numbers to life as it were

Well this is exactly why I don't need proof or ufo's to know there's life, even intelligent life out there..

you know, 50 billion stars in this galaxy, and loads of galaxies around.
Even the dimmest estimated percentage of life, still yields millions of planets with life, and thousands of civilizations... (drake equation)

I know the drake equation has a lot of unknowns.. simply because we haven't crawled out of our shell as it were and only know earth and us.
But even if you put in ridiculously low numbers. You'd still be surprised at the outcome

Again sweet images, and nice url, hadn't found that site yet.

Originally posted by DarkSide

Originally posted by Kr0n0sOh and I believe its pretty narrow-minded of scientists to believe that water is a requisite for life on a planet.
Something thats necessary for us could be poisonous to an alien and vice versa

It's not narrow-minded. We only have 1 example of life, and that's life on earth, which is based on carbon and requires water. So it's logical to search for something were familiar with.

We have evidence that life most likely needs carbon and water, doesn't mean we will never find other types, but it's just easier to look for something we already know first.

Well then we're narrowminded, just not by choice lol.


An alternative to carbon based life? My opinion:
The prerequisite is for the element to be able to build complex molecules, carbon is the best, it can connect to 1 up to 4 other atoms, it has 4 slots in manner of speaking. The only other element I know that could replace carbon would be silicium, or silica based life. But that's pure theory since as far as I know we haven't found any silica life on earth..
Don't bash me with detailed scientific terms about this, I'm trying to put it in layman terms.

I'm missing something, Also on that link (op).
There's no mention of what those distances mean to observation.
They show a map of the visible universe.. which is sweet, but neglect to mention this is hypothetical.
If you look at the edge of visible space with a telescope etc. you're seeing how it once was 15 billion years ago.. We can't be sure beyond a certain distance what really is out there.
RF frequencies, light, radiation, all travel at speed of light or slower, so e.g. a star 5000 lightyears away from us looks like it was 5000 years ago.
Ah well just thought I'd put that little info in again.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by David2012]
forgot: flagged.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by David2012]

well when you put it like that we are really really small

sizeofworldse.ytmnd.com...


watch this at the end it shows the largest know star.

Also very good post.

Originally posted by tombangelta


sizeofworldse.ytmnd.com...


watch this at the end it shows the largest know star.

Also very good post.

Nice anim.. I created something like that once in 3d studio max, but gave up when I tried to create some of the bigger stars.. zoom got a bit quirky with the immense scale differences

btw a free and pretty good program to explore space:
Celestia It's free and worth a try.
I haven't tried any scripts or fun stuff. But just to travel a bit. Check the planet positions at a certain date and such. e.g. couldn't resist looking at planetary positions in 2012 . Anyway it's a nice resource to have.

That is incredible, i knew the universe was massive but that puts things into a new perspective. Just think that those huge stars could have planets bigger than our sun. They could have intelligent life on them that doesnt even know what is on the other side of their planet.. aliens in their own world if you like.

A blue sun would be crazy too. If only we could get people or even unmanned ships out there to see it for real.

you know, 50 billion stars in this galaxy, and loads of galaxies around.

The milky way alone has an estimate of 200 - 400 billion stars, and it's not the biggest galaxy around

The prerequisite is for the element to be able to build complex molecules, carbon is the best, it can connect to 1 up to 4 other atoms, it has 4 slots in manner of speaking. The only other element I know that could replace carbon would be silicium, or silica based life. But that's pure theory since as far as I know we haven't found any silica life on earth..
Don't bash me with detailed scientific terms about this, I'm trying to put it in layman terms.

I didn't imply silicium based life impossible. But we never encountered any so it's easier to look for something that resembles us. Maybe we will find different life too.

They show a map of the visible universe.. which is sweet, but neglect to mention this is hypothetical.
If you look at the edge of visible space with a telescope etc. you're seeing how it once was 15 billion years ago.. We can't be sure beyond a certain distance what really is out there.
RF frequencies, light, radiation, all travel at speed of light or slower, so e.g. a star 5000 lightyears away from us looks like it was 5000 years ago.

The distances are still there. The universe as it really is must be even larger than that since it's expanding.

Originally posted by fiftyfifty
That is incredible, i knew the universe was massive but that puts things into a new perspective. Just think that those huge stars could have planets bigger than our sun. They could have intelligent life on them that doesnt even know what is on the other side of their planet.. aliens in their own world if you like.

A blue sun would be crazy too. If only we could get people or even unmanned ships out there to see it for real.

well technically we can but say reaching proxima centauri (closest star) at sublight ... and then waiting for the signal to come back at lightspeed... well we won't see the imagery anytime soon.

Bit offtopic but I'm in somewhat of a calculative mood lol
so here goes.

Based on the estimated speed of the voyager probes leaving our solar system by nasa (17.46 KM/s)

Proxima Centauri is 4.6ly away

1lightyear = 9.460.730.472.580,8 KM (lol)

So for a sublight craft like the voyager probes to reach Proxima Centauri:

4.6 x 9460730472580,8 / 17,46 = 2167406752000 seconds = 79037 years
Not including the 4.6 years a transmission would take to get from there to here..
Kind of depressing really. (This was very quick and basic and likely flawed (not 100% sober).. anyone feeling the need to correct something or include acceleration or whatnot to it.. be my guest )

Suffice to say I think it's time to start thinking out of the box, if we ever want to find a way to decently traverse space we need an original idea lol.

Even lightspeed won't solve this (especially due to relativity which makes it impossible and impractical) it would still take a crew 4.6 years to get there, then 4.6 years before we hear they have arrived.

That's not even saying that if it was possible to do this, the time to get there would take 4.6 years for the crew.. but because of relativity the time that passes on earth will be many many multiples of 4.6 years.

If there is no way around relativity which makes travel at the speed of light or greater impossible and also if it were possible makes it very impractical. It might explain why we aren't in touch with anyone out there.

Again feel free to correct me if you feel i'm off somewhere.

The distances are still there. The universe as it really is must be even larger than that since it's expanding.

I wasn't about the distances persay, I was saying what we see beyond a certain distance might not be there anymore ^^
Depending on how far out you go, this map is up to thousands, millions, billions of years out of date. in a certain way.

Also I wasn't arguing with you about the carbon life comments
I was just giving my opinion about the only other valid atom out there that might be used instead of carbon.. Didn't really have much to do with your comment directly. Would have quoted you if I intended it to be a direct reply to you
And your argument is a good one. Never said it wasn't..

About the universe being larger.. I have a simpler reason why it's far larger then we know.. there's a limit to how far we can see into it.. the immense universe your seeing is just the bit that's visible to us.. it's not actually that size Noone knows the size of the universe just how far we can see into it.

[edit on 9-4-2007 by David2012]

Originally posted by Mayan2012
i said "COULD" i should have emphasized that word lol a bit more.

and i dont care what our little scientists have said about the "reasons to believe that about 150 solar masses is the upper limit" or "1.4 solar masses your planet becomes a black hole" because no scientist on earth can even say for a FACT that thats true simply because we do not know enough about our universe yet.

Well, sure they can.

At some point during the formation of a protostar, the core is going to ignite. The radiation pressure will sweep away all the stellar matter that's not close enough to be held in by gravity. Thus the limit. Observations agree with the prediction - you just don't see any stars over about 150 Sols.

As for the planet thing..basic physics.

You might want to try taking some math-based science courses instead of getting your science from Fortean Times.

Nice thread Undefeated.
We are very small compared to the whole picture. I try to imagine even a bigger picture than the Hubble deep space view. Try to imagine universes instead of galaxies. And is there something after the universes that is even bigger? This could go on and on, where does it stop? I would like to just once be able to go anywhere in our universe or others with a special telescope that could let you see it all. You know, zoom in and out and see the galaxies one by one. See our solar system and others, etc..
Can someone please invent this telescope or binoculars before I die.
Anyway, thanks again for the thread Undefeated.

I tend to think of the universe/god as vast empty space. Like a blank sheet of paper that has no end in every direction. And nothing is in that space until someone/thing observes it. Once the universe starts being observed, anything can manifest by the interpretation of said "empty space". Or as Alan Watts called it "negative event."
I guess, scientists notice the more you observe the universe, the more it runs away! Hindu hide & seek. That's the real glory of God/Life.

Alan Watts also said that when our body dies, our blood cells anounce, "God is Dead"..........

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by digitalassassin
I too, would like to quote Carl Sagan.

I do respect Carl Sagan. I enjoyed his Cosmos series on TV and applaud him co-founding The Planetary Society.

However, I don't hero-worship him due to his mostly dismissive views about UFOs.

He was prepared to 'listen' with SETI in vain hope, yet not prepared to seriously investigate scientific evidence left behind by UFOs. That's a sticking point with me.

In a similar way, he dismissed to almost no chance that UFOs were visiting alien spaceships from other stars, yet he predicted that someday Humans would travel to other stars. Meanwhile, he also stated that technologically superior aliens were probably quite common...?

I don't think that he really knew what to do with the UFO topic, so he bungled his way about it instead.

All in all, he helped educate us to respect how vast the Universe is though.

Look no further than earth for evidence of space traveling beings. They build machines to explore other planets like we do. Absolutely no mysticism in that, so why are people putting extraterrestrials and faith in the same sentence?

Extraterrestrials are science based. Aliens and religion are on opposite sides of the ring, if not, it should be properly labeled neo-Christian. Or is the current bible now obsolete and ready for a new and altered version? The evolving bible….

[edit on 9-4-2007 by TheMadHatter]

Extraterrestrials were created by God, so that we can entertain ourselves pursuing the theory of each other across vast distances, yet never being able to prove each other. God has a sense of humor

Originally posted by DYepes
Extraterrestrials were created by God, so that we can entertain ourselves pursuing the theory of each other across vast distances, yet never being able to prove each other. God has a sense of humor

Who created God? Everything has a beginning and an end, right? When was God created and by whom? Who is God's God? I don't understand why men state things as fact when they have no real idea, other than what they've been told. I'm sure there is ALOT more to existance than any religion can even begin to explain, so I say give it a rest, enjoy life, and treat everybody with respect so we can all enjoy our limited stay on this speck of dust.

Cool pics in this thread though, sometimes at night when looking up into space, it really freaks me out to think we're just floating on a tiny ball in such a huge universe, and then trying to think what's beyond what we know, what's beyond dark matter, where's the end? What is beyond the end?

The vastness of the universe proves there is no God.

Another way of putting it is that Biblically God says the evidence of his creation is around us and to ask why do people need to see the mechanics of the universe and earth and then believe it was not from a God of a grand scale to us. People still believe in the created expanse and within science see the creation input that something’s just seem created by design and hence the evidence is around us and not just by chance.
Some say evolution evidence is around us and so be it, but what ever you find you will still find that the deepness of scale of the matter has questions baring creation or random processes or random processes that have an order being of a greater design, the argument is not finite and will be for a long time in between these systems of thought. People argue about the creation myth but people can argue of the evolution conspiracy to tare man away from God, then argue that the proof of Aliens will only allow the anti-Christ Tribulation period to come fourth by mass deception of the UFO culture beliefs as man will open their arms to fallen angels and make a treaty with them. Then people can say there is evidence of UFOs in the Bible and creationists will tell you it's Angels but today's versions are satanic UFO signs of deception.
The wheel goes round afraid and by stopping one variable is as wise as not putting God to the test, now who is being forced to believe and what not to believe here? Even Christians can be scientists and even scientists can turn creation believers by their understanding of the complex universe and atomic structures. I find those who don't believe are more like the priests who are uneducated about the science of world the switch of irony is common.

Can we have at least one thread where the whole god and extraterrestials etc. thing is left out.. Please let that be this thread..

Originally posted by TheMadHatter

Look no further than earth for evidence of space traveling beings. They build machines to explore other planets like we do. Absolutely no mysticism in that, so why are people putting extraterrestrials and faith in the same sentence?
[edit on 9-4-2007 by TheMadHatter]

while i agree with you that most ETs are just explorers such as we would be, I also tend to lean on the other side too.

Now I'm not religious. i don't pray to god. I don't read the bible/koran/torat etc. However i am of the belief that there is something to those ancient texts.
Why would these stories of "Gods" pop up around the same time in history all around the world if there were no truth to it.

What i believe is that we have been genitically altered in the past (maybe several times) by a species far more advanced then us. The people of that time regarded them as gos because they were capable of things that the people of the time would not be able to comprehend.
At the time the world wasnt even thought to be round. They definately had no concept of the vast Universe that we live in.
So basically what im asying is i think "GOD" per se was an alien race. I believe that the UFOs that are spotted in the sky are a combination of curious species and species that are here to watch over us. Kind of like a science experiment.

My theory answeres many question from various topics.
- Pyramids and other monuments could have been created by advanced species.
- Religions that have the same concepts and themes that started around the same time
- The missing link in our evolution
- The fact that the Flegellen Motor (part of a cell) could not have "evolved" as each peice of it is integral for function. you can't simplify it suggesting it was created by something or someone intelligent.
- The fact that UFOs have been spotted since history has been recorded.
- It i9s suggested that some beings are interdimensional. something living outside of our 4 dimensions could live outside the effects of "time". Essentially just popping in from time to time. This would explaine how profets could possibly recieve knowledge from the "future"


of course none of this really relates to the main topic - sorry bout the hijack - but i feel it was necessary to answer, if nothing more than to open peoples minds to the relevance that "GOD" may have to the thread, and why people should stop crying about references to god.
Not everyone is of the same opinion. the purpose for ATS in my eyes is to discuss opinions without calling people out on thier personal belief system.


In regards to the thread itself:
Amazing pictures. I have seen these before but they always make my imagination run wild.

Imagine the potential size of planets around Antares. After you've wrapped your head around that, consider that there may be creatures out there that are larger then our moon, or even the eath for that matter.

The universe is absolutely immense. One of my other theories is that everything that has ever been thought of exists somewhere, on some plain of existense. But that involves quantum theory and infinate consciousness and thats neither here nor there in this thread.

Great post. I haven't read the whole thread yet so I apologize if this has already been posted, but anyone who finds this stuff interesting will also enjoy this slide show:

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