Forest on Mars !?!?

This is great find ArMaP - and no matter be it ice or permafrost - no way, that this is 'natural'!

Originally posted by StellarX
We should not disregard them but we should not attempt to make unreasonable assumptions and employ illogical means to arrive at mundane conclusions that will upset no paradigms.

I don't think that I have made unreasonable assumptions or made illogical means, but I may have made them, they may have looked reasonable and logical to me at the time.

But it looks far more like trees than it does strange pools of spreading liquid employing capillary movement...

I cannot find a better way to describe what I have in mind, but its not a pool or a pond, its not a deposit of liquid on the surface, what I am thinking of is just a variation of concentration of liquid on the ground in the same way that a drop of wine on a table cloth may look darker on the middle, with ramifications from its centre.

Such heroism... Why insult the mostly educated participants here by suggesting that they are not and have never been aware of the more mundane explanations? Why such strange assumptions?

There's no heroism involved in posting on the Internet, only on same rare cases. I have seen some cases where people really do not think first of the more mundane explanations, so I think it is a good idea to point them when people do not state that they have already thought of those possibilities and have discarded them.

I don't believe in coincidences and don't believe those who do.

Well, I do believe in coincidences, but I don't have any problems with people who don't.

I don't like to see people taken in by official lies and establishment misdirection and that is why i do my best to present views that do not require the picking and choosing of unrepresentative data that forms the core of many major scientific fields.

I don't like to see people taken in by any lie, official or unofficial.

I am the one trying to show people alternative views and i do not appreciate the fact that you have the audacity to claim that you are in fact the one presenting novel views.

Between you and me, you are the one presenting alternative views, and I never claimed to be presenting novel views, where did you get that idea?

All i have ever seen you do in these forums is defend conventional views and for that i do not and never will have any respect.

Well, I respect you regardless of your ideas...

How can something with a shadow be 'flat' and why do we expect it to look '3d' from such altitudes with such bad camera's?

The Earth trees shown on those satellite photos looked 3D.

Thanks for basing your 'explanation' on the foundation that i must be ignorant of something not to 'understand' your most conventional ideas...

I didn't had in mind your ignorance or lack of it when creating my explanation, that was just a way to try to explain what I was thinking, but once more it looks like it was a failure.

Similarities it is then and given a few months/years you might even admit that it looks a great deal like trees but can't be because NASA says so.

I don't even know what NASA said about those things and I don't care what is NASA's opinion about anything when I post my opinion, that is why I said in a previous post that I don't think that their explanation is the most plausible for that case.

It's 'likeliness' is entirely based on what sets of data you employ and if you happen to pick the official NASA one then yes, those are very unlikely to be trees. Why anyone would still choose to use the official NASA data and assumptions is beyond me but i suppose some of us only changes their minds when the science community tells them to.

OK, what other photos from that area but not from NASA can I see? My opinion is mostly based on the photos, I only used NASA's information about the lights direction because of what other people see as shadows, forgetting that the validity of that information would be frowned upon.

But there is no reason not to apply common sense and thus discern the true sun angle by looking at the shadows cast.

You are right, there is no reason not to apply common sense, but when I see flat features on the ground with no shadows, I do not see any reason to use what I do not see as shadows as a pointer to the direction of the light.

Also, I should have thought of more options and of what other people may be seeing when they look at those photos, in that way it would be easier to put myself in their position.

Those links shows that NASA will destroy hi res shots to hide detail but i can present more specific information showing that they will actively air-brush out detail in a given photo or data strip.

I have seen with my own eyes high resolution TIFF images pulled from a website and replaced with lower resolution JPEGs some time ago, so I know what they can do.

Sorry about the image size, bluebird. I will correct it tomorrow when i am back on my desktop system.

Regaring the story, i am not sure who wrote it. here is the link. You have to start at page 4, otherwise you cannot link the rest of the pages. Just open pages in a new window (or tab, depending on the internet explorer version) and start at page 1. The read is interesting to say the least. Presuming that the author is honest, one has to believe the indigenous peoples would be as well.

www.nexusmagazine.com...

Now that i look, yeah, it is Valery Uvarov.

What puzzles me about this story is that i have heard some weird things in my life here in the desert southwest.

The story of the "bells" that i refer to ("campana's") are one. There is also a story of this place in the middle of the Chihuahuan hills where two people can stand next to each other and scream, yet never hear each other. it is a "sacred site" for the local Amerinds (people who follow the Aztec cultural attributes over Hispanic) and is theoretically the site of EM disturbance. The region has strange fogs during strange times (i often wonder if it could relate to the 11 year Sun cycle.

Then, tie it in with the Quetzecoatl myth, and it all fits in nicely with Valery's story, huh?

It just seems to relate. Then, you read that Lobang Rampa's mentor told him about the ancients who built the "spine of the earth", and a little more focus is added to our story.

I think that Atlantis seekers, UFO seekers, Bigfoot seekers, Vimana seekers, seekers of all unanswered questions likely will all recieve their answers at the same time, via the same event.

Thank you much Tax for the story and link to Uvarov story - it should be discus on ATS - if it was not done before. Yes, I know the story , for some time.

Castaneda / “Journey to Ixtalan“ - is not the peyote from the book in Chihuahuan Desert?

Crater walls // west of Mareitos
Fossae region // with strait lines and angles





msss

Interesting crater !?




who or what is looking ”?





msss

Originally posted by blue bird
Crater walls // west of Mareitos
Fossae region // with strait lines and angles





msss

That looks so airbrushed it ain't even funny. The color balance and contrast do not match.

I wonder if there were a cave there or something that was removed?

So, now they are finding the specific mechanisms that can cause the methane production on Mars?

dailyheadlines.uark.edu...

Of all places, at the Univ Arksansas!?!?!

Excerpted:

The test tubes containing sand, gravel and Mars soil stimulant all produced methane, indicating the presence of living methanogens. Only one species of methanogen produced methane on basalt, which is commonly found in Martian soil, and none was found in the clay, although Kral plans to re-create the experiments in a slightly different manner.

Anyone here with a garage lab decent enough to try to recreate the Martian environment while achieving these results?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
The color balance and contrast do not match.

The original has no colour, is just grey-scale.

I tried to upload the original IMG converted to GIF but ImageShack does not want to work, again.

I think that the best way to look at these photos is to download the IMG files and, using NASAVIEW, (downloadable from here), convert the IMGs to GIFs and open them with an image editor.

Edit: ImageShack is working again, so here is the image.

[edit on 1/7/2007 by ArMaP]

I also found in 'Astrobilogy' (leading peer-reviewed journal in its field) that scientist are connecting recent discovery of water and methane with possibility of 'of extant or extinct life on Mars'.

Universiry of Arkansas - was the one that simulated Martian soil in Petri dish ( and was posted here) 'Simulations Show Liquid Water could Exist on Mars' and pointed out that for the brane mix, freezing point drops to 21C below zero for salt water and 50 degrees below zero for water with calcium cloride.

"For us, this is a win-win situation under either scenario," Kral said. "Either the methane is being produced by methanogens that already inhabit the planet, or there is volcanic activity, which means warmer conditions exist that could support life."

more on exp. in Andromeda Chamber

It is also important to point out - that methane concentration on Mars is detected by spectrometer, where water vapor is. The highest concentration of methane overlap area with water vapor and water ice.

his spatial correlation between water vapor and methane seems to point to a common underground source.

One exciting prospect bolstered by the data: Can forms of bacterial life exist in the water below the ice table, producing methane and other gases and releasing them to the surface and then to the atmosphere? Indeed, the PFS data could be hinting at the presence of extant life on Mars in terms of the presence of 'biomarker' gases.

source


[edit on 1-7-2007 by blue bird]

It is also important to point out - that methane concentration on Mars is detected by spectrometer, where water vapor is. The highest concentration of methane overlap area with water vapor and water ice.

his spatial correlation between water vapor and methane seems to point to a common underground source.

One exciting prospect bolstered by the data: Can forms of bacterial life exist in the water below the ice table, producing methane and other gases and releasing them to the surface and then to the atmosphere? Indeed, the PFS data could be hinting at the presence of extant life on Mars in terms of the presence of 'biomarker' gases.

source


[edit on 1-7-2007 by blue bird]

That is the most critical point, for me.

I am curious about the existance of carbon based fuels, as well. Methane production signifies the possibility for an environment capable of creating abiotic fuel sources, which could go a long ways towards affirming that theory.

Does anyone know what type of "output" can those methanogens make?

Do they only make methane or can they make also other things?

Methane is reduced carbon. They consume CO2 and hydrogen to produce methane. As far as I am familiar with subject - I think that methanogens do not produce any other byproduct.

Methane is the final step in the decay of organic matter. But doesn't these anaerobic 'digestation' need 2 gropus of bacteria? One that produce organic acid by fermentation and after that comes methanogens bacteria to break down the organic acids in order to produce methane ?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


I am curious about the existance of carbon based fuels, as well. Methane production signifies the possibility for an environment capable of creating abiotic fuel sources, which could go a long ways towards affirming that theory.

Than Tex you definitely should read (if you didn't already) "The Deep Hot Biosphere" by Thomas Gold, Austrian astrophysicist of Cornell!

'"Hydrocarbons are not biology reworked by geology (as the traditional view would hold) but rather geology reworked by biology". — Thomas Gold

Gold achieved fame for his 1992 paper 'The Deep Hot Biosphere in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences [1], which presented a controversial view of the origin of coal, oil, and gas deposits, a theory of an abiogenic petroleum origin. The theory suggests coal and crude oil deposits have their origins in natural gas flows which feed bacteria living at extreme depths under the surface of the Earth; in other words, oil and coal are produced through tectonic forces, rather than from the decomposition of fossils

Originally posted by blue bird
Methane is reduced carbon. They consume CO2 and hydrogen to produce methane. As far as I am familiar with subject - I think that methanogens do not produce any other byproduct.

I asked because of this formula:
CO2 + 4H2 → CH4 + 2H2O

If those bacterias use CO2 and Hydrogen (H), and they release methane (CH4) where does the rest of the products go (in the case of the above formula, 2H2O)? Do they use them internally?

Methane is the final step in the decay of organic matter. But doesn't these anaerobic 'digestation' need 2 gropus of bacteria? One that produce organic acid by fermentation and after that comes methanogens bacteria to break down the organic acids in order to produce methane ?

Apparently not, if those methanogens can make methane out of rocks.

Originally posted by ArMaP

I asked because of this formula:
CO2 + 4H2 → CH4 + 2H2O

If those bacterias use CO2 and Hydrogen (H), and they release methane (CH4) where does the rest of the products go (in the case of the above formula, 2H2O)? Do they use them internally?

I am telling you ...there is water in those pretty craters waiting terraformers to use them as hydrogen fuel..

Hydrogen + Oxygen = Water


The simple statement that water is made from hydrogen and oxygen doesn't give us a very clear picture of what really goes into the creation of a molecule of water. A quick look at the chemical equation for the formation of water tells us more.

2H2 + O2 = 2H2O


It takes two molecules of the diatomic hydrogen gas, combined with one molecule of the diatomic oxygen gas to produce two molecules of water. In other words the ratio of hydrogen to oxygen is 2:1, the ratio of hydrogen to water is 1:1, and the ratio of oxygen to water is 1:2.
There's something more though that doesn't show up in the equation. Energy. The formation of water from it's elements produces, in addition to water, a tremendous amount of energy, 572 kJ to be exact.


2H2 + O2 = 2H2O + ENERGY

source



[edit on 1-7-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by ArMaP

I asked because of this formula:
CO2 + 4H2 → CH4 + 2H2O

If those bacterias use CO2 and Hydrogen (H), and they release methane (CH4) where does the rest of the products go (in the case of the above formula, 2H2O)? Do they use them internally?

Kidding with the previous post - but presumably hydrogen escapes to space, and the abundance of oxygen left, oxidized the surface. And we see a lot of that red soil up there, do we...


...like on Earth - oxidized soil beneath a basalt in arizona




[edit on 2-7-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by zorgon

Here is a picture of the Polar Ice Cap... not hard to find really...

THIS ice is mostly CO2 ice ergo "dry ice" and VERY COLD

I know, I know...but if I weren't like this, I wouldn't be on ATS, now would I?

When I saw that picture...I had to do this:

because that reminded me of this: Mystery of the Labyrinth

Like I said, I know, I know...the idea just popped up, and I felt the urge to post it. Might be a brain fart, might not be. The swirls even go in the same direction, in my eyes anyways.

zeeon, and everyone in that direction...I really don't need an in-depth comment. Just have fun with this, it's called "playing". You know, what we used to do as kids, when we used our imaginations?

Originally posted by rikriley

Originally posted by blue bird
What is this -highly reflective object - something diffuse in nature, emanating from it !?




msss

What is emanating from this highly reflective object is a cylindrical hologram with mutiple humanoid projections at different degreed angles similar to a totum that is spiraling upward from the shinny base.

Ladies and gentleman you are witnessing what is called a Martonian City. Look closely and study the magnificent architecture in the foreground and background inbedded in this photo and discover beautiful humanoid statues or projections. This may take some time for you nonbelievers to see these things but if you will concentrate and open your mind you will see these things also.

Life exists on Mars as you will see in the future and on this thread many are the visual pioneers and explorers interpreting what they see on Mars. In order to see these anomolies use a high quality magnifying glass in a darkened room this will project this photo similar to 3-D into the retina of your eye. Rik Riley

[edit on 29-6-2007 by rikriley]

Wow rick, just wow.....