Forest on Mars !?!?

“Puddles“ derived from this Oppy images:



* Clouds over the same region:




** incredible image...specially for a place with so “thin -almost non-existent“ atmosphere:

nasa

* water puddle on Earth:









source

Opportunity picture of landing airbag imprints show disturbed martian soil indicative of mud puddles on Mars, claims a former Viking Mars scientist

source

[edit on 10-6-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by Matyas

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan...
I honestly believe that Mars is a muddy world.

Hear, hear, I concurr.

My quicksand was a stroke of insight, and the appearance of muddy regions go a long way to explain our observations, especially for Armap's. I am 100% confident we will find life in the lava tubes, 80% confident of life on the surface, and 100% confident of water saturated mud and sand on the surface. The 20% I reserved for the case of hydrogen peroxide precipitation.

Perhaps Mars was heavily mined in its past. Or these lava tubes are as prevalent as you state. Regardless, would this type of scenario not explain where all the water went? Perhaps these tubes have "swallowed" the oceaons of mars? Perhaps this is the effect that killed the planet, or left it clinging to life?

Originally posted by blue bird
“Puddles“ derived from this Oppy images:

As jra said here, that looks like the crater wall, not the crater bottom, and a crater wall does not look like a probable place for water to create puddles.

Originally posted by blue bird
* water puddle on Earth:

I appreciate your effort in searching all that information that you have posted, but some of the pictures you post, like the one above, are almost useless, they are so small that all detail is lost, and resizing them 3x does not help.

But keep the good work.

The imaging shows that the areas occupy the lowest parts of the terrain.

Smooth bluish areas on a Martian crater floor could be ponds, according to two scientists. The area is approximately 1 square metre (Image: Ron Levin)


.

puddle article

- it is not a sharp rocky cliff ArMaP - Endurance is 22m wide and just 3 m deep - it is all muddy with broken rock- between which are different size small channels - so- ponds are possible to form in the lowest part ,as is stated in article.



*edit: * Edit: 430f//130m across rim to rim
66f//20m from rim to base



[edit on 10-6-2007 by blue bird]

Originally posted by blue bird
- it is not a sharp rocky cliff ArMaP

I didn't said it was, I only said that it looked like the wall of the crater and not the floor.

Endurance is 22m wide and just 3 m deep - it is all muddy with broken rock- between which are different size small channels - so- ponds are possible to form in the lowest part ,as is stated in article.

I don't understand, what do you say that is all muddy with broken rock with small channels in between the rocks, the crater wall or the crater itself?

Endurance Crater

A new picture from Opportunity showing the floor of Endurance Crater. Credit: NASA/JPL

and if you have some 3D glasses




*** Edit: 430f//130m across rim to rim
66f//20m from rim to base


[edit on 10-6-2007 by blue bird]

I don't think the issue here is so much whether or not water exists on Mars, because we do have plenty of evidence of water in other parts of the solar system and on at least 100 exoplanets, but rather that life exists elsewhere other than Earth.

The mindset seems to be that life here on Earth is so extraordinary any geologic explanation no matter how far fetched is plausible if it does not permit conditions for life to flourish. This is a holdover from the Flat Earth era. Eventually Queen Isabella had to finance an expedition to overturn the silly notion. Never mind that the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Mayans, Vikings, and Chinese knew better, no one listened until big money proved it.

So even if the ATS team is spot on, suitable conditions for life on other worlds will in no wise be widely accepted until somebody publicly goes there.

Found this BBC nice way of viewing Endurance - you drag it - can move around free 180 degrees //scroll to the bottom of article.

BBC

Beside the imprints of landing airbag ( posted at the top of this page)- which strongly indicate muddy imprints that was left - here is another example of WET soil:

Meridiani Planum / IMPRINT left from Oppy spectrometer:

That partly-covered indentation, suggestive of mudflow, has also become white - possibly due to sheen of frozen ice after water was released from the soil by the pressure or heat of the active science device.

source


And not to mention all these muddy tracks left by rover all over. If that ain't screaming : water - moisture, I don't know than!?

So - if all that is possibility to be the fact on Mars : can these support life..bacteria...microorganisms ..anything organic and live?


Was Gilbert Levin right, when his experiments detected microbial life, almost 30 years ago? Rethinking Viking mission?

Originally posted by Matyas
I don't think the issue here is so much whether or not water exists on Mars, because we do have plenty of evidence of water in other parts of the solar system and on at least 100 exoplanets, but rather that life exists elsewhere other than Earth.

The mindset seems to be that life here on Earth is so extraordinary any geologic explanation no matter how far fetched is plausible if it does not permit conditions for life to flourish. This is a holdover from the Flat Earth era. Eventually Queen Isabella had to finance an expedition to overturn the silly notion. Never mind that the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Mayans, Vikings, and Chinese knew better, no one listened until big money proved it.

So even if the ATS team is spot on, suitable conditions for life on other worlds will in no wise be widely accepted until somebody publicly goes there.

An artificially coloured image of Saturn’s moon Enceladus. Clearly visible over the southern polar region are dust fountains, caused by ice volcanic activity (lower left corner).

source

One interesting aspect:

WATER TRIPPLE POINT

The 'triple point' is the combination of pressure (6.1 millibars) and temperature (0.01 °C) at which water can exist simultaneously in all three states: a solid, a liquid and a gas (see the 'phase diagram' below). On Earth, our experience with the triple point is usually limited to ice skating. The temperature of ice on a skating rink is just a fraction of a degree from the triple point. A little bit of pressure on the solid ice can cause it to transform to a liquid. The weight of a skater applied to the ice along the blade of the skate therefore creates a thin layer of liquid water that lubricates the blade and makes gliding possible.

nasa



Guess what : Mars average pressure IS 6.1 MILLIBARS!!! Coincidence!?

- and a little salt for further lowing the freezing point

6 Millibars is the pressure of the triple point of water. Water boils at lower and lower temperatures as mountaineers go to higher altitudes on earth. When the atmospheric pressure reaches 6 millibars liquid water can boil at 0°C, where it is also freezing at the same time. On Mars water can be in a glass that is freezing and boiling at the same time.

martian water experiment




[edit on 11-6-2007 by blue bird]

It should be remembered that if the water is mixed with some other chemical or matter its possible to have a more wide range of liquid state. Some plant life on earth have the ability to create a natural anti-freeze for example and so on. Pure speculation ofcourse but everything usually is, until proven right or wrong.

That is true - plants protect themselves by deeper super-cooling - like using sugars in more concentrated form to get natural antifreeze.

It is also case with Onychiurus arcticus - he dehydrate totally as a protection for surviving extremly harsh Arctic winters, and with a drop of water, he is back! Some other Arctic spices “these creatures accumulate anti-freeze compounds which lower the temperature at which their bodies freeze“.



Strange ways of life!

What about tube warms on ocean floors that thrive in water ( near vents) above 450F? And inside tube warms, scientist found bacteria - between the cells of warms, they live in symbiosis.

Or lichens in Anctarctic - sometimes -70C . Pokuses were done 300-400 km above the Earth - they survived.

Some life found nuclear reactor waste to thrive .

What about those species, that were occupying our Earth in the beginning - with different circumstances in our planet evolution?


I somehow - could not belive that only Earth has a chance....all that incredible verity of flora and fauna here and not a single one on Mars..or Venus..or Titan..or anywhere else. We say “hostile conditions for life“ - surly we humans could not live in any of conditions mentioned above - but, guess what - we see that something else does.

Originally posted by Matyas
This is a holdover from the Flat Earth era. Eventually Queen Isabella had to finance an expedition to overturn the silly notion. Never mind that the ancient Greeks, Egyptians, Mayans, Vikings, and Chinese knew better, no one listened until big money proved it.

Sorry for the off-topic, but the idea of that expedition (if you are talking about Columbus' expedition that took him to the Americas) was not to prove that the Earth was round but to find a sea route to India and China, in which he failed because there was a continent in the way.

Originally posted by blue bird
I somehow - could not belive that only Earth has a chance....all that incredible verity of flora and fauna here and not a single one on Mars..or Venus..or Titan..or anywhere else. We say “hostile conditions for life“ - surly we humans could not live in any of conditions mentioned above - but, guess what - we see that something else does.

I think that the problem is the start of live on a planetary system.

Like we see here on Earth, once life has started it is very hard to be completely extinguished. I think that if there isn't life on Mars is just because it never existed before. If live existed sometime on Mars' past then I think that it is more likely to still exist some form of life that found a way of adapt and survive in the new environment conditions than to not exist any life form.

Originally posted by ArMaP...the idea of that expedition (if you are talking about Columbus' expedition that took him to the Americas) was not to prove that the Earth was round but to find a sea route to India and China, in which he failed because there was a continent in the way.

Which is true, and when we go to Mars for some kind of economic profit, it will be the same:

"Oh look what we found! Life really does exist elsewhere!"

The financeers' objective was never to prove the Earth is round. But you have to take advantage of the new paradigm to make the mission successful!

Originally posted by blue bird


Thanks Orion - apsolutly great contribution

[edit on 8-6-2007 by blue bird]

Thanks Blue Bird!!

This one is just for ...fun ? Originally posted by Zorgon

Originally posted by Orion437




MSSS Image full gif


[edit on 7-6-2007 by zorgon]

A Martian "Spatial Harbor" ...


Original:

Outlined/Remarked:

This one even has the "big hole/circle"





[edit on 7-6-2007 by Orion437]



[edit on 11-6-2007 by Orion437]

Originally posted by blue bird
Guess what : Mars average pressure IS 6.1 MILLIBARS!!! Coincidence!?

I am thinking the water cycle is stable under the surface. On Earth it is above surface and primarly solar driven. On Mars it is under the surface and more atmosphere driven, boiling off at the surface and refreezing as ice clouds. So the surface is crusty and muddy underneath, depending on the weather...

Originally posted by Orion437
A Martian "Spatial Harbor" ...

Hmmm complete with the fog rolling in....

The next version I post will be colorized... seems some people are having difficulty seeing anything "unusual"